Worth the read

[Cleo's Mom 257]

I suspected that this article would be controversial, but also thought it might be helpful to some.

I work on the principal if a technique works for you re: weight loss, ride it till the wheels fall off. If it's not working for you.. re-evaluate and make a change somewhere.

I agree that the food not staying long in the upper stomach (or pouch) and the prohibition against drinking after eating seems contradictory.

I know someone who is a patient of Dr. Simpson and she said she would try to remember to ask him about this next week when she sees him.

To clear up some confusion, Jessie Ahroni didn't write the article .. Dr. Simpson did. Or at least it is posted on the site that bears his name, so I would think that he at least approved the article.

Many thanks for the thoughtful and insightful posts on this subject. I'm somewhat tender-hearted and really hesitated to post this as I don't deal with confrontation very well at all. Sometimes I can't even open this thread.. I'm so afraid of negativity. :w00t: Thanks for being gentle with me.

I think it's fine that you posted the article. I think it validates what I've been saying about WLS doctors - that they are all over the place in their approach to the band, their pre-op and post-op recommendations, their knowledge (or lack thereof) of how the band works, their expectations (often unrealistic) and their general follow up care. Too little of what we're told is backed up by research. I mean why can some eat full meals right up to the day before surgery and others (like me) be put on a liquid only diet for 2 weeks before? Where is the research to back up either approach?

I think many of the doctors jumped on the WLS bandwagon for the money without a full understanding of the follow up care which is the most important part with the band.

When I read articles like this, they just don't make sense.

-Eat 1/2 cup of food, which will pass through the pouch and band within minutes, but will somehow trick your brain that you have eaten enough and are full.

-Eat 1/2 cup and stop even though you can eat more and you will lose weight. Well, duh! Of course you'll lose weight if you only eat 1/2 cup of food - it is that feeling full part despite the ability to eat more food that is a little fuzzy.

I think most on here know better, or should, not to shoot the messenger. So don't worry about coming on here and getting bashed. If you do, you will have your defenders. Like me.

[Melissannde 41]

I asked Jessie about the not drinking after eating conundrum (to refresh memory.. Jessie Ahroni is a nurse & author working in the bariatric field. She's been banded 12 years. Lost her excess weight and has maintained. )

//I shared the article by Dr. Simpson with some other bandsters and now they are questioning the no drinking after eating. What is the point of not drinking for a period of time after eating? I don't know what to tell them//

Jessie's reply:

"Some doctors think that's not important. I still try to avoid it. I don't think it's a good idea to wash your food through,even if you don't have a band. As always, experiment. If it makes no difference and you're still able to feel full for hours and lose 1-2 pounds per week then whatever you are doing is working. If you're not staying full or not losing then waiting for awhile after meals before you start to drink would be a good technique to try. I have had my band so long I KNOW when my appetite is shut off and I am not going to eat again until my next feeding time. That's when I start drinking. It is usually more like 20 minutes than the hour that some people recommend, but in the beginning people don't know that so they should probably still watch the clock. Our docs recommend 1 hour and I have been told that we are all to say wait one hour so the patients all get the same instructions. I do think that each patient should try to do what their doctor recommends.

I drink BEFORE I eat. I rarely have the urge to drink with eating. It's a habit I have developed. Drinking with meals seems weird to me now. I use to drink a lot (2 or 3 diet cokes) with every meal before banding. That really didn't serve me well."

If I hear anything from Dr. Simpson's patient, I will share that too.

I started my weight loss journey not drinking 30 min before or after my meals as my doctor recommended. I've since amended my routine to drinking right up to the first bite and wait an hour after eating to drink. I think the drinking before eating helps keep me hydrated and allows dryer foods to go down with less issues.

I've also been known to sip hot tea if I get something mildly stuck during a meal.. but I try to avoid that if possible. Everyone is different and has to find their own path on this long strange trip. :w00t:

[Hutch444 0]

Well, I have been banded for 13 months and let me tell you that I am ALWAYS hungry. From day 1, my "head hunger" has never went away. I've been constantly losing even without much restriction at first, but I can honestly say that I have yet to walk past a vending machine and not wish that I could have something out of there... Oh don't even get me started about a Diet Coke machine! I haven't had any pop since my pre-op diet over a year ago, and til this day I am still like a recovering crackhead - I take long pauses at my friends drinking their pop - OH HOW I MISS IT! But, that being said, I chose to give it up. My band has never made me have a feeling like I couldn't eat anything. Very bluntly, up until a few months ago, I was cursing this band to everyone that would listen. The problem with the doctors and the staff at their offices, IN MY OPINION, is that they glorify the band through all their mandatory meetings and evaluations but they NEVER tell you that this is not a miracle solution, which I, unfortunately, was looking for. I have learned to love my band now know that it is A DIET. If you're not ready for A DIET, it's not going to work for you. THE BAND IS HARD, YET GRATIFYING, WORK and if you love your band, it will eventually love you, too.

So, I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't agree with the fact that this dr is saying the band isn't about restriction, but the feeling of not wanting to eat. If that were the case, in my instance, I got the wrong band! My old, fat girl sees food in the same way she always saw it. My new, thinner yet not yet done losing, girl knows that she has to stop or she's going to get super sick from her RESTRICTION. But it doesn't mean that the feeling of wanting to eat isn't always there FOR ME, because it is.

Thanks for listening to my rant! :w00t:

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Well, I have been banded for 13 months and let me tell you that I am ALWAYS hungry. From day 1, my "head hunger" has never went away. I've been constantly losing even without much restriction at first, but I can honestly say that I have yet to walk past a vending machine and not wish that I could have something out of there... Oh don't even get me started about a Diet Coke machine! I haven't had any pop since my pre-op diet over a year ago, and til this day I am still like a recovering crackhead - I take long pauses at my friends drinking their pop - OH HOW I MISS IT! But, that being said, I chose to give it up. My band has never made me have a feeling like I couldn't eat anything. Very bluntly, up until a few months ago, I was cursing this band to everyone that would listen. The problem with the doctors and the staff at their offices, IN MY OPINION, is that they glorify the band through all their mandatory meetings and evaluations but they NEVER tell you that this is not a miracle solution, which I, unfortunately, was looking for. I have learned to love my band now know that it is A DIET. If you're not ready for A DIET, it's not going to work for you. THE BAND IS HARD, YET GRATIFYING, WORK and if you love your band, it will eventually love you, too.

So, I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't agree with the fact that this dr is saying the band isn't about restriction, but the feeling of not wanting to eat. If that were the case, in my instance, I got the wrong band! My old, fat girl sees food in the same way she always saw it. My new, thinner yet not yet done losing, girl knows that she has to stop or she's going to get super sick from her RESTRICTION. But it doesn't mean that the feeling of wanting to eat isn't always there FOR ME, because it is.

Thanks for listening to my rant!

I agree with much of what you have to say, but most of all I want to say thanks - it's pop - not soda. Thanks for being a fellow pop person. Although I don't drink pop I am glad you are using the correct term. :thumbup: (This ought to open up a whole pop vs soda debate) :w00t:

[WrenBird 11]

Well, I have been banded for 13 months and let me tell you that I am ALWAYS hungry. From day 1, my "head hunger" has never went away. I've been constantly losing even without much restriction at first, but I can honestly say that I have yet to walk past a vending machine and not wish that I could have something out of there... Oh don't even get me started about a Diet Coke machine! I haven't had any pop since my pre-op diet over a year ago, and til this day I am still like a recovering crackhead - I take long pauses at my friends drinking their pop - OH HOW I MISS IT! But, that being said, I chose to give it up. My band has never made me have a feeling like I couldn't eat anything. Very bluntly, up until a few months ago, I was cursing this band to everyone that would listen. The problem with the doctors and the staff at their offices, IN MY OPINION, is that they glorify the band through all their mandatory meetings and evaluations but they NEVER tell you that this is not a miracle solution, which I, unfortunately, was looking for. I have learned to love my band now know that it is A DIET. If you're not ready for A DIET, it's not going to work for you. THE BAND IS HARD, YET GRATIFYING, WORK and if you love your band, it will eventually love you, too.

So, I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't agree with the fact that this dr is saying the band isn't about restriction, but the feeling of not wanting to eat. If that were the case, in my instance, I got the wrong band! My old, fat girl sees food in the same way she always saw it. My new, thinner yet not yet done losing, girl knows that she has to stop or she's going to get super sick from her RESTRICTION. But it doesn't mean that the feeling of wanting to eat isn't always there FOR ME, because it is.

Thanks for listening to my rant! :thumbup:

Same with me...The only reason I'm losing weight is because I'm terrified that spending $17k on surgery is going to waste. :w00t:

I exercise for an hour every day and usually eat nothing but Optifast and salad.

...Yesterday I got hungry and went on a stupid binge. I ate over 2700 calories and was still hungry afterwards...First time I've ever done a 3 hour workout.

[DiValencia 0]

With all that has been said thus far can anyone answer this for me. I had my third fill Tuesday of this week. Took 10mins to find port (crazy right) Anyway I am up to 9cc's in 14cc Band. Check this out I left the office and went into the little quaint Villiage and luxuriated in it's beuaty and Big Sigh I sat down and had a lovely lunch of grilled Teriyaki Salmon 1/2 baked potatoe and veg medley. I know how crazy is that....The birdbrain that I am forgot that I wasn't supposed to eat for a few days and just drink my shakes. However suprisingly enough I didn't realize it until later tah evening when I was wondering what I was going to eat for dinner and getting out of my car I pick up my doggie bag. It was less than an hour and 1/2 that I ate and I had absolutely no restriction at all. Is this Bandster Hell as it's called I am just so beside myself. :thumbup::sleep:

Edited October 23, 2010 by DiValencia

[DiValencia 0]

[Yikes I'm an idiot for sure=DiValencia;1544784]With all that has been said thus far can anyone answer this for me. I had my third fill Tuesday of this week. Took 10mins to find port (crazy right) Anyway I am up to 9cc's in 14cc Band. Check this out I left the office and went into this little quaint Villiage Port Jeff Station in Long Island and luxuriated in it's beuaty and...Big Sigh!!!! I sat down and had a lovely lunch of grilled Teriyaki Salmon 1/2 baked potatoe and veg medley. I know how crazy is that....The birdbrain that I am forgot that I wasn't supposed to eat for a few days and just drink my shakes. However, suprisingly enough I didn't realize it until later that evening when I was wondering what I was going to eat for dinner and getting out of my car I pick up my doggie bag. It was less than an hour and 1/2 that I ate and I had absolutely no restriction at all. Is this Bandster Hell as it's called I am just so beside myself. :thumbup::sleep:

Edited October 23, 2010 by DiValencia

[LeighaMason 19]

The article is exactly how the band works for me. But I cant stress this enough, you have to find your own way.

[Cocoabean 430]

I agree with much of what you have to say, but most of all I want to say thanks - it's pop - not soda. Thanks for being a fellow pop person. Although I don't drink pop I am glad you are using the correct term. :thumbup: (This ought to open up a whole pop vs soda debate)

I thought the correct term was "soda pop." Maybe because I grew up east, west, and central USA? :sleep:

I still struggle with passing by the junk food. But this artile flies in the face of the way I work my band, and the way my band works for me.

Maybe I am misinterpreting what is going on internally and the way my surgeon explained it to me. But, either way, it IS working for me.

For that, I am thankful.

Cleo'sMom, when do you meet with your new doctor?

[LeighaMason 19]

In East Texas they call them "Cokes", here is a typical exchange.

"Hey, you want a Coke?"

"Yeah, bring me a Dr Pepper."

[Cocoabean 430]

With all that has been said thus far can anyone answer this for me. I had my third fill Tuesday of this week. Took 10mins to find port (crazy right) Anyway I am up to 9cc's in 14cc Band. Check this out I left the office and went into the little quaint Villiage and luxuriated in it's beuaty and Big Sigh I sat down and had a lovely lunch of grilled Teriyaki Salmon 1/2 baked potatoe and veg medley. I know how crazy is that....The birdbrain that I am forgot that I wasn't supposed to eat for a few days and just drink my shakes. However suprisingly enough I didn't realize it until later tah evening when I was wondering what I was going to eat for dinner and getting out of my car I pick up my doggie bag. It was less than an hour and 1/2 that I ate and I had absolutely no restriction at all. Is this Bandster Hell as it's called I am just so beside myself. :thumbup::sleep:

Sometimes restriction doesn't kick in immediately. Your story sounds like something I would do. I was laughing with you, I hope! I think the reason for liquids post-fill is so that we don't cause any additional swelling. It sounds as though you are OK.

It could be that you need a bit more to find proper restriction. With the 14cc bands, I understand it can be a longer process to find it, but it DOES happen.

[Cocoabean 430]

One thing the article mentions that has always made me curious is about the pouch emptying quickly.

And this is truly just wondering, not a statement of FACT....

If the food stays in the pouch for a lengthy period, why is it we are told to wait between bites to "be sure they go down"--go down where? I can get stuck on any bite during a meal. How is that, if the food is just going into the pouch for further processing later?

Generally speaking, if I am going to get stuck, it happens immediately, not an hour or two after a meal (it may take an hour or two to resolve, but that is different)...so, IS the pouch emptying while we eat??

Thoughts anyone?

[Cleo's Mom 257]

I meet with my doctor next month.

Andy and Opie Taylor from Mayberry, NC always said pop.

Soda is something with ice cream as in ice cream soda.

I was told the food stays in the pouch for a long time providing a sense of fullness and also why you shouldn't drink so as to wash it all out. But like I've said - the doctors are all over the place. I believe there should be a set standard of care and a research-based explanation for everything we're told from why we have to go on liquids for 2 weeks before surgery to how the band works with restriction, etc.. and everything in between.

[Cocoabean 430]

I meet with my doctor next month.

Andy and Opie Taylor from Mayberry, NC always said pop.

Soda is something with ice cream as in ice cream soda.

I was told the food stays in the pouch for a long time providing a sense of fullness and also why you shouldn't drink so as to wash it all out. But like I've said - the doctors are all over the place. I believe there should be a set standard of care and a research-based explanation for everything we're told from why we have to go on liquids for 2 weeks before surgery to how the band works with restriction, etc.. and everything in between.

Then there is orange soda and cream soda, and Radar O'Reily's Grape Nehi!

I, too, was told the food stays in the pouch for a while. But my surgeon doesn't have the no drinking rule. He's OK with me having some liquids with my meals. Some--as in a few ounces, because there isn't much room for more, and if I chug, everything comes back up.

I'd also like to see some research on it all. I've asked if anyone has seen any studies on the no liquid with meals with a band. It seems odd that some are told to chew foods to liquid before swallowing, but don't drink any with meals..? I was also told to not do Protein shakes, my surgeon wants me eating my calories, not drinking them. Others here have orders to do Protein Shakes.

My orders were take small bites, chew well, then swallow.

In my pea-brain (again wondering, not stating fact) if the food is mostly solid-ish in the pouch, where it is ground more before leaving the pouch, how would putting a small bit of liquid through it drain it faster? Wouldn't the liquid go through the food and drain out? Or perhaps gum up the works more? Or does it truly cause the chewed food to become a thinner liquid and empty faster?

I often wonder if the rules aren't just the standards from the gastric bypass world where the pouch does not grind at all.

I know for me, since I was given permission to have fluids with meals I have experimented, it makes no difference if I drink or don't with my meal.

Following our doctor's orders is important, but we also need to balance that with what works for us. As Cleo'sMom has pointed out, doctors are all over the place on the rules...if I change doctors to one who forbids drinking with meals, should I then stop? I don't know.

[LeighaMason 19]

I think when you eat too fast and get pain the food is not entering the pouch fast enough and the pain is from it sitting in your esophagus. I think the stuck/pain/too full feeling comes from the esophagus instead of the pouch.

I can drink while eating but if I am eating something like bread and I take a drink, I risk the bread swelling up and getting into my esophagus and creating the pain. That is why I stick to the no drinking for 20 min after eating rule. Drinking after eating makes no difference in the length of time that the hunger is gone.

This is my theory.. no facts to back it up.