Democrats vs republicans

[ariscus99 1]

Did the mods close this forum down or something?

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Let's have an update on how the GOP (Grand Old Phoneys) are doing in congress since taking over.

1) The reading of the constitution - some parts they didn't like were excluded and some pages stuck together. Couldn't even get this right - those tri-cornered hat wearing defenders of the constitution.

2) The swearing in - 2 republicans didn't make it - they were at a fundraiser (guess they didn't get the memo) and thought they could just raise their hand to the tv coverage on c-span.

3) Every bill was to have a constitutional authority - except when it didn't - like their first 3 bills.

4) The American people have polled consistently that jobs, jobs, jobs overwhelms all other concerns yet the first three bills by republicans restricts american's access to health care. Nothing about jobs.

5) Those who don't attend sessions are supposed to be named - but haven't been.

6) Failure to cut the $100 billion as promised

7) Dueling SOTU responses

8) 3 legislative loses in 24 hours that they put through on their agenda

9) Boehner supported a $3 billion extra engine (F-35) for aircraft that the military doesn't want and several freshmen republicans don't want - but Boehner wanted it because it means jobs in his district. Can anyone spell EARMARKS?

(it was defeated)

10) There was to be an open rules - that allowed democrats to add amendments but this was violated with the first 3 bills.

11)They were to cut spending to offset any new spending in new bills - except that that didn't happen in their first 3 bills.

And Boehner said that since Obama took office, 200,000 new federal jobs were created (NOT TRUE) - when it was only 58,000 according to the BLS. He said that if federal jobs are lost due to budget cutting then "SO BE IT" .

He must have an incompetent staff that can't even fact check - so, I suggest starting this reduction of federal employees with them.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

UPDATE PART 2:

Why is it that all we have heard from the repubicans, particularly Boehner, is the deficit, the deficit, the deficit?

Two reasons:

1) They don't have a jobs creation program (remember how they used to ask Obama - where are the jobs?) . Now it is my turn: HEY, BOEHNER, WHERE ARE THE JOBS?

2) They are using the deficit as cover for what has been their larger agenda for 30 years - to de-fund social programs and de-regulate corporate america (their donors).

[Cleo's Mom 257]

UPDATE #3

Here's what the republicans have been upto in DC and around the country. How many jobs will all of this create. Hmmmmm???

Top 10 Shocking Attacks from the GOP War on Women

1) Republicans not only want to reduce women's access to abortion care, they're actually trying to redefine rape. After a major backlash, they promised to stop. But they haven't.

2) A state legislator in Georgia wants to change the legal term for victims of rape, stalking, and domestic violence to "accuser." But victims of other less gendered crimes, like burglary, would remain "victims."

3) In South Dakota, Republicans proposed a bill that could make it legal to murder a doctor who provides abortion care. (Yep, for real.)

4) Republicans want to cut nearly a billion dollars of food and other aid to low-income pregnant women, mothers, babies, and kids.

5) In Congress, Republicans have proposed a bill that would let hospitals allow a woman to die rather than perform an abortion necessary to save her life.

6) Maryland Republicans ended all county money for a low-income kids' preschool program. Why? No need, they said. Women should really be home with the kids, not out working.

7) And at the federal level, Republicans want to cut that same program, Head Start, by $1 billion. That means over 200,000 kids could lose their spots in preschool.

8) Two-thirds of the elderly poor are women, and Republicans are taking aim at them too. A spending bill would cut funding for employment services, meals, and housing for senior citizens.

9) Congress voted yesterday on a Republican amendment to cut all federal funding from Planned Parenthood health centers, one of the most trusted providers of basic health care and family planning in our country.

10) And if that wasn't enough, Republicans are pushing to eliminate all funds for the only federal family planning program. (For humans. But Republican Dan Burton has a bill to provide contraception for wild horses. You can't make this stuff up).

Note: that redefinition of rape would require that it be forcible rape. Isn't that redundant. The very definition of rape is that it is forcible. Just more evidence that republicans have a low opinion of women.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

More updates:

As the healthcare bill has taken effect, more people support it and fewer oppose it. However, the republicans have voted to repeal and de-fund it. This will cost jobs. Experts doubt the claims that health care law is a "job killer". In fact, it has been estimated that 4 million jobs will be created. I mean - you inject 32 million people into the system now demanding healthcare that weren't there before - and increased demand increases jobs..

Boehner seems to believe that loss of federal jobs are okay. I guess those employees don't count - they don't pay taxes, buy homes, stimulate the economy. But if they become unemployed, they will sign up for unemployment, possibly food stamps and maybe lose their home - all further burdening federal programs.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Let's take a look at this deficit that the republicans and teabaggers keep yapping about.

The number one best way to reduce the deficit is to get people back to work, paying taxes and stimulating the economy.

The second best way is to increase the tax rate on those making over $250,000 to the Clinton years when 22 million jobs were created (from 35% - 38%- keeping in mind that these people at one time paid about 90%)

The reason for the deficit is largely due to the recession - so let's start there

The recession was caused by wall street and corporate greed and gambling with our money and the failed policies of the bush administration. This caused a loss of value of over a trillion dollars for people's retirement, investment, homes and wages.

Another big reason for the deficit is the unfunded programs put in place by bush: 2 wars, 2 tax cuts for rich and medicare part D. Now read this slowly: THESE UNFUNDED PROGRAMS DIDN'T STOP BEING PAID FOR WHEN OBAMA TOOK OFFICE - THEY ARE STILL BEING PAID FOR - CONTINUING TO ADD TO THE DEFICIT.

Now, however, the republicans want to blame the middle class, the working poor, the unions, public employees, the health care bill and senior citizens for the deficit. THEY DIDN'T CAUSE THE DEFICIT AND IT SHOULDN'T BE REDUCED ON THEIR BACKS. PERIOD.

Why isn't Wall Street on the chopping block? Where is their contribution to deficit reduction and the recovering economy.? They are sitting on 2 trillion in assets.

So the republicans want to cut home heating oil for the elderly poor or funding for mammograms and pap tests. Why not look at the abuses in the lucrative defense contracts that they get for their donors? A pentagon study in January found that it had paid $285 billion in three years to more than 120 contractors accused of fraud and wrongdoing. I'm still waiting to find out what happened to the $18 billion Halliburton "lost" in Iraq.

But hey, the republicans want to freeze grandma while making sure that Halliburton and the likes can still get their bonuses.

People who voted for them will get what they deserve but unfortunately drag the rest of us down with them.

[cheryl2586 3,053]

I think the best thing that could happen to the government in Washington along with the president and his cabinet and I am a democrat is to lay them all off without pay until they all decide to do what is best for tax paying people. Let them all see and feel how it feels to be without a paycheck, in fear of losing their homes, not able to provide for their children, go without healthcare and have to pay 200.00 just for an office visit. Do you think any politician really care about American people. Daily they are spending millions of dollars of tax payers money on programs that are not necessary. Daily they get paid big bucks to sit and argue how to spend out tax dollars. They ALL should not sleep at night thinking about what it really is they are doing to this country. I am in agreement that people think that Obama is supposed to clean up Bush's mess he left overnight. He can be in office for five terms and never clean up Bush's mess. Ending the useless war would certainly stop a lot of debt. It is both parties faults for the way this country is running not just one.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

I think the best thing that could happen to the government in Washington along with the president and his cabinet and I am a democrat is to lay them all off without pay until they all decide to do what is best for tax paying people. Let them all see and feel how it feels to be without a paycheck, in fear of losing their homes, not able to provide for their children, go without healthcare and have to pay 200.00 just for an office visit. Do you think any politician really care about American people. Daily they are spending millions of dollars of tax payers money on programs that are not necessary. Daily they get paid big bucks to sit and argue how to spend out tax dollars. They ALL should not sleep at night thinking about what it really is they are doing to this country. I am in agreement that people think that Obama is supposed to clean up Bush's mess he left overnight. He can be in office for five terms and never clean up Bush's mess. Ending the useless war would certainly stop a lot of debt. It is both parties faults for the way this country is running not just one.

While there are those in both parties who are to blame, it is the republicans who enjoy taxpayer funded healthcare but want to deny it to 35 million uninsured americans. It is the republicans who want to eliminate the minimun wage (yeah, like all those overpaid Walmart workers are the cause of our economic problems). It is the republicans who demonize the federal government and blame it for everything and then say "but hey, elect me to a cushy job in it".

It is the republicans who want to deregulate corporate america (that worked out so well for us under bush, didn't it?).

They want to take money from the poor and middle class and give it to the rich.

It is the republicans who promised that the tax cuts for the rich that they fought so hard for would produce jobs. So where are they? How many jobs did Palin, limbaugh, beck, et al create with the millions in tax cuts they just got?

It is Boehner and the republicans who threaten to shut down the government if they don't get their way. They have no problems giving money to the rich but they want to cut funding for home heating oil for the poor and will shut down the government if their plan is not passed. They have until March 4th to decide what to do.

I will not get my social security check if the government shuts down, but these republicans will still get paid.

LET THEM LOSE PAY FOR EVERYDAY THE GOVERNMENT IS SHUT DOWN AND LOSE THEIR HEALTHCARE TO BOOT.

The democrats have generally been on the side of the middle class, the working class and the least among us. While the deficit is important now is not the time to cut spending - just as the fragile economy is recovering. Cutting spending will cost jobs and that will put us into a further recession. Getting people to work is the best way to cut the deficit.

And yes, I do think that some politicians care about people. And I think that is largely the democratic party. Who cared about senior to get them social security and out of poverty? Who got us the minimum wage, the 40 hour work week, unemployment compensation, sick leave, overtime, safe work places and the FMLA? That came from unions and the democrats. Who championed for civil rights and women's right? The democrats. Who got us FDIC and government backed mortgages and student loans? The democrats. The republicans have not done one thing - not one thing - for middle class America.

But if we must cut spending then start with the defense budget. And then raise the tax on the wealthy to Clinton levels. And the deficit problem will be almost totally solved.

[ariscus99 1]

The only way we're going to get out of this financial debacle ie. being 14trillion in debt, and the budget shortfall that is close to 1t this year, is a systematic phase out of social security and medicare/caid. A HUGE overwhelming amount of our budget goes to social programs that we cannot afford anymore, there are simply too many people in this country and too many people not working and living off of the government to sustain all the entitlements. DOD is a great place to cut spending but it's miniscule in comparison. You would have to shut down the DOD for it to really make a big difference in the budget, and that is not an option.

The phase out does not me a cold turkey stoppage of payments for ss and mc, it means what it sounds like, a phase out: anyone on it now stays on, then we slowly raise the age to qualify higher, and we pick a date at which to stop. Say if you were born on or before Jan 1 1975, you will be allowed to collect, anyone born after is not, they need to start thinking about how they will provide for themselves. Take responsibility for their own futures. If we did this today, they would be people 36 and younger which would give a minimum of about 30 years before retirement age, which gives ample time to prepare. Also anyone born after the cutoff date no longer needs to pay into either program which will free up their money to invest how they see fit. It will require that dirty little devil the democrats hate, personal accountability and responsibility, but it is doable, and would put us in the black almost overnight.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

The only way we're going to get out of this financial debacle ie. being 14trillion in debt, and the budget shortfall that is close to 1t this year, is a systematic phase out of social security and medicare/caid. A HUGE overwhelming amount of our budget goes to social programs that we cannot afford anymore, there are simply too many people in this country and too many people not working and living off of the government to sustain all the entitlements. DOD is a great place to cut spending but it's miniscule in comparison. You would have to shut down the DOD for it to really make a big difference in the budget, and that is not an option.

The phase out does not me a cold turkey stoppage of payments for ss and mc, it means what it sounds like, a phase out: anyone on it now stays on, then we slowly raise the age to qualify higher, and we pick a date at which to stop. Say if you were born on or before Jan 1 1975, you will be allowed to collect, anyone born after is not, they need to start thinking about how they will provide for themselves. Take responsibility for their own futures. If we did this today, they would be people 36 and younger which would give a minimum of about 30 years before retirement age, which gives ample time to prepare. Also anyone born after the cutoff date no longer needs to pay into either program which will free up their money to invest how they see fit. It will require that dirty little devil the democrats hate, personal accountability and responsibility, but it is doable, and would put us in the black almost overnight.

Wrong again, as usual.

Several things could reduce the deficit, but cutting SS, medicare, medicaid is not the solution:

1) Return the tax rate for those making over $250,000 to the Clinton era (wow, from 35.6% to 38% - the wealthy might have to sign up for food stamps). This would bring in tons of money and the wealthy wouldn't miss it (it's not like they are creating jobs with it as promised).

2) The DOD budget is huge - our budget is bigger than every other country combined and even Gates supports cuts.

3) Get people back to work - and cutting spending is exactly the wrong thing to do with a fragile economic recovery like we are having. (It makes no difference if the employees are public or private - it all impacts the economy)

4) This one isn't likey to happen - but bring our troops home from Afghanistan.

The middle class, unions, public employees and senior citizens did not cause the economic crisis or the deficit - but now suddenly they are the targets of the cuts.

How can anyone support the tax cuts for the rich that the republicans just fought for and then turn around and say to reduce or eliminate the most successful social program in our country's history.

And why isn't Wall Street on the chopping block. How much support from those who want to cut SS do you think we'll get to end tax loopholes for corporate america or stop subsidies for oil companies? NONE. Because corporate america are their donors and have well paid lobbyists.

But I want to hear those hypocritical republicans say they want to continue the tax cut for the rich when it runs out in 2012 while at the same time proposing big cuts in SS.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Let's not forget that we pay into Social Security (trust fund) with the promise of payout when our time comes. Not true for the bloated military spending which is significant:

Spending Categories

Budget by Functional Category

[ariscus99 1]

As I've said several times, I'm all for cutting the DOD budget. However, any realistic cut is merely a drop in the bucket. Sure we can and should, shut down all of our bases in other countries, bring home as many troops as possible, but again, this is all a drop in the bucket when we're looking at close to a $1T budget short fall. A flat tax would take care of most of these problems, but our spending is still out of control

Social Security in unsustainable according to the Social Security Board of Trustee's, the systematic phase out of social security as described above or in some similar way WILL get us back on track. No logical person wants to get rid of SS right now, cold turkey, most everyone knows too many people rely on it know, thats why you start to phase it out, pick an age, and go from there, raise the eligibility age for those within the age category so they don't collect as long and we can get back to a sustainable level.

Times are tuff, cuts must be made. Again I know it's George W.'s fault, bad bad boy, shame on you. Now what?

[Cleo's Mom 257]

As I've said several times, I'm all for cutting the DOD budget. However, any realistic cut is merely a drop in the bucket. Sure we can and should, shut down all of our bases in other countries, bring home as many troops as possible, but again, this is all a drop in the bucket when we're looking at close to a $1T budget short fall. A flat tax would take care of most of these problems, but our spending is still out of control

Social Security in unsustainable according to the Social Security Board of Trustee's, the systematic phase out of social security as described above or in some similar way WILL get us back on track. No logical person wants to get rid of SS right now, cold turkey, most everyone knows too many people rely on it know, thats why you start to phase it out, pick an age, and go from there, raise the eligibility age for those within the age category so they don't collect as long and we can get back to a sustainable level.

Times are tuff, cuts must be made. Again I know it's George W.'s fault, bad bad boy, shame on you. Now what?

I already told you what: raise the taxes on those making over $250,000 to the Clinton levels when 22 million jobs were created. They can afford it, they're not creating jobs and boo hoo they might just have to give up that 3rd home.

It will bring in tons of money.

Also - collect the SS payroll tax on 100% of wages not just the first $106,000. And then when the millionaires come of retirement age, make payments tied to wealth, assets, etc.. because they won't need it.

Close all the corporate tax loopholes.

Do a better job of overseeing defense contract abuses and fraud.

So, those are very doable solutions that the republicans would never go for - and no jobs or benefits would have to be cut.

[ariscus99 1]

I already told you what: raise the taxes on those making over $250,000 to the Clinton levels when 22 million jobs were created. They can afford it, they're not creating jobs and boo hoo they might just have to give up that 3rd home.

It will bring in tons of money.

Also - collect the SS payroll tax on 100% of wages not just the first $106,000. And then when the millionaires come of retirement age, make payments tied to wealth, assets, etc.. because they won't need it.

Close all the corporate tax loopholes.

Do a better job of overseeing defense contract abuses and fraud.

So, those are very doable solutions that the republicans would never go for - and no jobs or benefits would have to be cut.

#1 and #3 on your list would be solved with a flat tax, that would benefit most everyone else at the same time. Your SS payroll tax on 100% of wages, would you change the name of that to the robin hood tax, since you seem to think that the rich should pay into it but should be the only group limited on what they can collect. The rich are savvy, thats how they get that way, if they pay into it on the millions they make every year, when they come of age, you better believe they will collect that money back, whether they "need it" or not.

Another reason raising taxes isn't going to work is because, it's not what the people want. Remember your old mantra of how the dems are in control because people want what the dems want? Well the republicans are coming back into control because, guess what, the people want what the republicans want, lower taxes, less social programs etc.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

#1 and #3 on your list would be solved with a flat tax, that would benefit most everyone else at the same time. Your SS payroll tax on 100% of wages, would you change the name of that to the robin hood tax, since you seem to think that the rich should pay into it but should be the only group limited on what they can collect. The rich are savvy, thats how they get that way, if they pay into it on the millions they make every year, when they come of age, you better believe they will collect that money back, whether they "need it" or not.

Another reason raising taxes isn't going to work is because, it's not what the people want. Remember your old mantra of how the dems are in control because people want what the dems want? Well the republicans are coming back into control because, guess what, the people want what the republicans want, lower taxes, less social programs etc.

Actually the republicans are on the wrong side of many of the things people want.

1) The vast majority supported tax cuts for those making under $250,000 and opposed them for those making over $250,000 - opposed by the majority of republicans

2) The majority of people supported repeal of DADT - opposed by majority of republicans

3) The majority of people supported the START treaty -opposed by majority of republicans.

4) The majority of people also support funding for our schools

5) Only 13% support any cuts to SS

So the republicans aren't really supporting what people want. People think they want cuts in spending until they find out that the cuts impact them. What they mean is that they want cuts that impacts the other guy, not them.

And as far as the robin hood theory of yours - well if the wealthy are so savvy then they will have plenty of tax sheltered income to protect them in retirement. Also, you pay into SS independent of your marital status, but your marital status is used to calculate your SS benefits so I guess we can call that the "screw marriage" tax.

And a flat tax is more punitive the lower the income is. 10% of those making $50,000 is $5000 - which means a lot to a family making that much. But 10% of $1 million is $100,000 leaving the millionaire with $900,000. Hardly a dent.