How do you feel about a mosque at "Ground Zero"?

[BJean 16]

Cleo's: "So, what are the solutions to this mosque issue? I've offered one. But it was ridiculed. I don't see any other solutions offered."

I guess I missed something but I only saw one person who posted something negative (ridicule) about your suggestion. I was certainly supportive and still think it was a great idea.

Americans are knee-jerk reactors to emotional news. Myself included. When they (we) get all the facts and filter out the lies and misrepresentations, we can get on board with ways to actually fix a problem instead of just bombing or setting fire to something. But what we need is leadership.

We need someone sane to help educated us and to help us sort things out. We don't want to be bigots or biased against an entire religion or group of people. Most of us know that it is ignorant as hell to discriminate against a group of people for the actions of a few.

But let's face it - 9/11 is an unusual situation as are our relations with the middle east. People are still reeling from that horrible day. And people in Oklahoma are still reeling from the bombing of the Federal Building there.

If we are totally honest, we will admit that we have more to fear from people like Timothy McVeigh (one of our own countrymen) than we do from Muslim terrorists. It isn't every day that one of our own bomb a building or hold people hostage at gunpoint, but it happens all too frequently. No one nation or religion or group of people has a monopoly on nut jobs. And we need to remember this when we think it's right to run people out of town on a rail.

Edited September 4, 2010 by BJean

[Cleo's Mom 257]

We just had that nut at the Discovery Channel building. Things could have ended much more tragically for everyone since he had explosives strapped to himself. There are people all around us with various mindsets who would do us harm.

As for the mosque. Maybe those building it could have a plaque on the outside of the building that says something like this:

We of the Muslim faith are committed to a peaceful world in which we are all free to practice our religion in harmony with others. We reject terrorism in any form, especially that done in the name of any religion. We therefore share in the grief of the people and this nation resulting from the terroristic acts committed on September 11, 2001. It is our hope that those who enter this building will be seeking to learn and to share in our desire for a united community of people.

Something like that might go a long way to calming the emotional rage that we have been seeing. I mean, they are burning mosques in other states. Is that the direction we want to go?

And BJean - take my poll.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Todays Pittsburgh Tribune Review

Mosque backer aided Hamas

Hisham Elzanaty, 51 Who's role in the partnership was confirmed by Sharif Al-Gamal, the patnerships general manager!

Zanaty, (a confirmed investor)and medical clinic owner whose expressions of sympathy for Palestinians included a donation to a charity later shut down for links to Hamas! Reached by phone, Elzanaty declined to speak immediately with the ass. press.

Tax records show Elzanaty gave $6,050 to "The Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development" foundation in 1999! It raised millions of dollars from AMERICANS(Yah, lets keep givin, we are idiots arent we?) in the 90s, telling donors the money would fund schools, orphanages, and social welfare programs! 2 years after Elzanaty's donation, the foundations assets were frozen by the US gov. which it accused of being a fundraiser for Hamas!

The foundation and some of its leaders were indicted in 04 on charges of supporting Hamas. 5 were ultimately convicted!

Of course Elzanaty's lawyer said he had no knowledge of the groups involvement with Hamas when he made the donation! They never do!

So, out of the small group of investors, one is already caught in shady donations! These poor Muslims, we're just picking on a whole group because we're racist Americans! And we're supposed to believe most Muslims arent sympathetic towards extremism. Sorry Ill believe when I have proof, until then Its pathetic to believe theyre not sympathetic!! (God I wish I knew how to cut and paste)

bob, I couldn't find this article in the trib. But giving to a charity that then contributes to Hamas does not make the charity contributor a contributor to terrorists. I gave to the Haiti relief fund - what if later I found out that some of that money somehow got into the hands of terrorists. Does that make me a contributor to terrorists?

To cut and paste. Drag your mouse across what you want to paste to highlight it in blue. Then go up to edit and click copy. Then when you get on here and post, just click your mouse where you want the post to go, then go up to edit and click paste.

[BJean 16]

Cleo's: "bob, I couldn't find this article in the trib. But giving to a charity that then contributes to Hamas does not make the charity contributor a contributor to terrorists. I gave to the Haiti relief fund - what if later I found out that some of that money somehow got into the hands of terrorists. Does that make me a contributor to terrorists?"

Technically it does make you a contributor to terrorists but not by choice. I feel your pain. And it's tough!

How did you know I hadn't participated on the poll? Does it tell you who chose what? I thought these things were blind polls.

loserbob, another way you can transfer information is that you highlight the entire passage and then click on "control" & "c" at the same time. Then go to the place you want to post it and click on "control" & "v". Presto, magic-o, eese done.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Cleo's: "bob, I couldn't find this article in the trib. But giving to a charity that then contributes to Hamas does not make the charity contributor a contributor to terrorists. I gave to the Haiti relief fund - what if later I found out that some of that money somehow got into the hands of terrorists. Does that make me a contributor to terrorists?"

Technically it does make you a contributor to terrorists but not by choice. I feel your pain. And it's tough! I guess I don't see it that way. You cannot know what every charity does with it's contributions. Same as you can't know what the companies you invest with do with every dollar. They might be investing in companies in developing countries that have a poor human rights record but you wouldn't know. So I see it as you making an honest contribution and someone else making a dishonest one.

How did you know I hadn't participated on the poll? Does it tell you who chose what? I thought these things were blind polls. Because the name of the last person to poll shows in the thread. This is where I was having trouble before. A thread would show a person having posted, say today, and then I'd go on and there wouldn't be their post. That's because it was a result of their voting in the poll, not posting.

Edited September 4, 2010 by Cleo's Mom

[BJean 16]

cleo's"You cannot know what every charity does with it's contributions. Same as you can't know what the companies you invest with do with every dollar. They might be investing in companies in developing countries that have a poor human rights record but you wouldn't know. So I see it as you making an honest contribution and someone else making a dishonest one"

Oh I quite agree. But the money is still going to terrorists and that's too bad. As you said, you certainly can't control or always know what every group does with money they collect. Lots of money in America goes to things you wish they wouldn't but your intent to help those who are in need doesn't change just because the money is diverted dishonestly.

What I'm trying to say is that your intentions were good. It's like a preacher who takes up donations for the poor and the money winds up buying the preacher a Gulfstream II. It's unfortunate and it makes you unhappy and perhaps even furious.

But when people are dishonest and diverting donated funds to dishonest causes, it doesn't reflect on the people who were being charitable when they donated the money. It reflects on the dishonest people diverting donations to things that they have no right to do. But the terrorists are still being funded and the Gulfstream is still flying.

[loserbob 11]

bob, I couldn't find this article in the trib. But giving to a charity that then contributes to Hamas does not make the charity contributor a contributor to terrorists. I gave to the Haiti relief fund - what if later I found out that some of that money somehow got into the hands of terrorists. Does that make me a contributor to terrorists?

To cut and paste. Drag your mouse across what you want to paste to highlight it in blue. Then go up to edit and click copy. Then when you get on here and post, just click your mouse where you want the post to go, then go up to edit and click paste.

Page A4 of the Sept 4 issue. Its also on the Jerusalem post.com.

Its just too funny that we're talking about trust with this issue and we find out about the donation!

I wouldnt want you to build a mosque then! Its also funny that these people(Muslims) never know their money is going to fund terrorists! Sorry, you have to prove to me that he didnt know. Until then hes guilty as charged.

[loserbob 11]

We just had that nut at the Discovery Channel building. Things could have ended much more tragically for everyone since he had explosives strapped to himself. There are people all around us with various mindsets who would do us harm.

As for the mosque. Maybe those building it could have a plaque on the outside of the building that says something like this:

We of the Muslim faith are committed to a peaceful world in which we are all free to practice our religion in harmony with others. We reject terrorism in any form, especially that done in the name of any religion. We therefore share in the grief of the people and this nation resulting from the terroristic acts committed on September 11, 2001. It is our hope that those who enter this building will be seeking to learn and to share in our desire for a united community of people.

Something like that might go a long way to calming the emotional rage that we have been seeing. I mean, they are burning mosques in other states. Is that the direction we want to go?

And BJean - take my poll.

Even though it would be too late now, I think it would have been easier to accept if they had done something like the plaque your talking about. Maybe they would be accepted more if they would express their disgust with 9-11, more in the public eye. Im sure theres a few who have and still do but Im not hearing about them.

[shellbell64 0]

right ON Loserbob and Bjean!!!I completely agree with you guys!!!! There is a WAY bigger picture here than just 'can't we all just get along and love one another'! Obama has done nothing but embarrass the American name around the world ...apologizing for america/hugging killer communists/bowing to saudi FREAK...what the heck! WHO is FUNDING this,people.The Imam has not said one thing on this,nor denying to us allthat in no way would it be funded by terroists! This is just disgusting to me as an American. Let Obama just bend over some more for all of us...just pathetic.

[loserbob 11]

right ON Loserbob and Bjean!!!I completely agree with you guys!!!! There is a WAY bigger picture here than just 'can't we all just get along and love one another'! Obama has done nothing but embarrass the American name around the world ...apologizing for america/hugging killer communists/bowing to saudi FREAK...what the heck! WHO is FUNDING this,people.The Imam has not said one thing on this,nor denying to us allthat in no way would it be funded by terroists! This is just disgusting to me as an American. Let Obama just bend over some more for all of us...just pathetic.

Cleo's, have fun with this!!!

[BJean 16]

shellbell64, I know, right? We need to just manufacture more and bigger bombs and go over there and wipe out the entire middle east, right? We're right, they're always wrong, right? Besides, we need that oil they're selling us - in fact they're keeping us hostage by the oil prices - so like Bush and Cheney and their friends seem to think, we're bigger so we get to have what we need and if that means just bombing the heck out of them, then that's what we need to do, right?

I mean the very idea of Muslims near ground zero. What ARE they thinking? That our president Obama and Bloomberg think they won't bomb us again if we let them have their mosque? Why do we need to make friends with middle eastern people anyway, right? We're the biggest country, as far as bombs and fire power go, so why do we have to be nice to the "little" people, right?

Are you out of your freaking mind, shellbell64? You think by being intelligent and using diplomacy with other country's leaders that we are taking it up the butt? (To use your venacular - "bend over some more")

Ugly Americans, indeed. You speak well for them. But count me out of that group. Just because I oppose what I thought was a mosque on the site of the World Trade Center bombings does not mean that I oppose diplomacy and friendship between nations! And I thank God every day that we have someone in office like President Obama to represent us rather than that bumbling idiot Bush and the Cheney people who pulled his strings.

What we Americans need to do is to stop being so darned greedy and stop pretending as if our addiction to cars and oil is all right. It isn't all right. It's wrong and what we need to do is suck it up and do whatever it takes to get off foreign oil and we need to learn how to be smarter than our enemies, not play into their hands like we've been doing.

Don't make this mosque issue something negative about our President. That's just stupid.

[shellbell64 0]

It IS something negative against the president Bjean,lol,really??? If the president would of kept his mouth shut in response to the mosque,it still wouldn't matter.It IS about Obama...uh...because he is REPRESENTING AMERICA here...and AMERICA is disgusted with this Mosque being built .Oh, us UGLY americans.....'I know..RIGHT???'

Did I say anything about 'we are always right and they are wrong'???????? but now that you mention it......

But oh go ahead and drag in OIL and americans greed....and I will just keep out OBAMA,lol..funny....I think THAT is stupid.

I LOVE AMERICA and those who fight for us and STAND UP for us...

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Enough Said: Ground zero's neighbors

Sunday, September 05, 2010

As you can see there are two blocks of buildings blocking the view of this community center from ground zero. Additionally, you can see the existing building and the proposed addition. The current building has been used weekly as a mosque without any controversy before the proposed addition.

Edited September 5, 2010 by Cleo's Mom

[BJean 16]

You brought to our attention what this controversy is all about, Cleo's. It's about big money diverting the attention away from all the negative stuff that Republicans have been doing in Congress and elsewhere so that they will do well in the elections in November.

It's another thing for people to get outraged about and assume that it's happening because of those "socialist" Democrats. What a bunch of lame-brains we were to get sucked in by it. (those of us who did get sucked in)

But when we knew better, we did better. And that's the important factor in this entire debate... for us to see this thing for what it is. Another Republican propaganda piece, full of lies, misrepresentations and misdirected anger.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

You brought to our attention what this controversy is all about, Cleo's. It's about big money diverting the attention away from all the negative stuff that Republicans have been doing in Congress and elsewhere so that they will do well in the elections in November.

It's another thing for people to get outraged about and assume that it's happening because of those "socialist" Democrats. What a bunch of lame-brains we were to get sucked in by it. (those of us who did get sucked in)

But when we knew better, we did better. And that's the important factor in this entire debate... for us to see this thing for what it is. Another Republican propaganda piece, full of lies, misrepresentations and misdirected anger.

You nailed it, BJean.