How do you feel about a mosque at "Ground Zero"?

[BJean 16]

I could be wrong but I think they already own this building and have been using it weekly as a mosque already. They just want to expand the building - make it 13 stories to add the other parts - the swimming pool, library, theatre, community center. I don't think they intentionally bought this building (whenever the current owner bought it) to be 2 blocks from ground zero to make any kind of statement. I just think - like most real estate transactions in NYC - it was opportunity meets price.

That certainly sounds like a reasonable assumption. And if expanding to add stories to an already open mosque is the true scenario, then it has not only been blown way out of proportion, but the whole thing is exactly what you indicated, right wing irrational, misrepresented data and probably a pack of lies (my characterization.)

[BJean 16]

I did find this out. File it under my previous comment: Money talks and fox listens.

Fox News shareholder funded ‘Ground Zero mosque’ imam: report

By Raw Story

Saturday, August 21st, 2010 -- 7:02 pm

The second largest shareholder in News Corp. -- the parent company of Fox News -- has donated hundreds of thousands of dollars to causes linked to the imam planning to build a Muslim community center and mosque near Ground Zero in Manhattan, says a report from Yahoo!

News.According to the report from Yahoo!'s John Cook, Saudi Prince Al-Waleed bin Talal, who owns seven percent of News Corp., "has directly funded [imam Feisal Abdul] Rauf's projects to the tune of more than $300,000."

Cook reports that Prince Al-Waleed's personal charity, the Kingdom Foundation, donated $305,000 to Muslim Leaders of Tomorrow, a project sponsored by two of Rauf's initiatives, the American Society for Muslim Advancement and the Cordoba Initiative, which is building the Manhattan mosque.

That Fox News' second-largest shareholder, after Rupert Murdoch, has financial links to the "Ground Zero mosque" will be seen as ironic by critics of the news network, who have watched with chagrin as the network's talking heads attempt to link the mosque to radical Islamism.

Last week, Daily Show host Jon Stewart lambasted Fox panelist Eric Bolling's attempt to link the Cordoba Initiative to Hamas and Iran. Stewart used News Corp.'s connections to Prince Al-Waleed, and the prince's connections to the Carlyle Group and Osama bin Laden to make a tongue-in-cheek argument that Fox News may be a "terrorist command center."

Story continues below...

"Stewart didn't need to take all those steps to make the connection," Cook writes.

Cook also reports that Prince Al-Waleed has in the past funded a number of Islamic organizations that have been maligned by Fox News commentators:

Al-Waleed donated $500,000 to the Council on American-Islamic Relations — which has been repeatedly denounced on Fox News's air by Geller and others as a terror group — in 2002. Indeed, Rauf's "numerous ties to CAIR" alone have been cited by the mosque's opponents as a justification for imputing terrorist sympathies to him,

yet few people seem to be asking whether Murdoch's extensive multi-billion business collaboration with the man who funds both Rauf and CAIR merits investigation or concern.

Other beneficiaries of Al-Waleed's largess include the Islamic Development Bank, a project designed to "foster the economic development and social progress of [Muslims] in accordance with the principles of Shari'ah." The IDB funds the construction of mosques around the world, and has been implicated by frequent Fox News guest Stephen Schwartz in an attempt to spread radical Wahhabism (a fundamentalist branch of Islam) throughout the United States.

Cook notes that it was none other than News Corp.'s New York Post that reported on Prince Al-Waleed's donation to Muslim Leaders of Tomorrow. He reports that Fox News had no comment for his article, and emails to the prince's Kingdom Foundation were not returned.

Prince Al-Waleed owns an estimated $2.5-billion-worth of News Corp. Majority shareholder Rupert Murdoch recently took a stake in the prince's Middle East-based media conglomerate, Rotana Group. Murdoch and Prince Al-Waleed are reportedly working on launching an Arabic news network that will compete with existing pan-Arabic networks Al-Jazeera and Al-Arabiya.

(Editor's note: Original article's headline incorrectly referred to Saudi Prince Al-Waleed bin Talal as co-owner rather than the second largest shareholder.)

The REST of the story, eh? Man. The thing I am not understanding is why the other networks and broadcasters don't do their research before they line up with stories debating the pros and cons of issues like this! This is a non-issue if Cleo's post above is correct. And the major networks should have used their air time exposing Murdoch and Al-Waleed instead of going for the bait.

With that kind of financial backing they can do whatever they want in NYC. This is not a story about a little Muslim community wanting to build a building or expand a building, is it? It's a much larger political/financial deal. And when I first learned that Rupert Murdoch was involved I should have shut up.

I do get very weary of the progressives and Democrats and fair-minded broadcasts pandering to this kind of story and expanding the debate to make it exactly what the Murdoch team wanted it to be. Color me red-faced and guilty.

[DonTony 0]

I have an idea. Why don't the NYC people who are opposed to this mosque start a non-profit foundation - call it the NO-MO (No Mosque) foundation and accept donations from the 65% of Americans who oppose this?*

If we just use the figures that half our population is adults (around 155 million) and 65% oppose the mosque that would be a little over 100 million and if each of those put their money where their mouth is (say $5 each) then this foundation could raise enough money (over $500 million) to buy this building where the mosque is to be built.

Isn't that the American way? Money talks. They say everyone has their price. So why not set up this foundation, collect the donations and then buy out this building? Then the foundation, which would own it, could make it anything it wanted. It would probably have to be a non-profit endeavor - set up so that future sales of the building would go to another non-profit, etc.. So maybe they could make it another christian worship site or another memorial to 9/11 or a free health clinic.

* There probably is already a non-profit 9/11 fund for families of victims that might still be active. I'm sure some savvy attorney could tweak it so that it could do the fundraising for this.

That is the dumbest thing Ive read in a long time. Sure, buying a building to cover up their disrespect and shadyness.

I realize very quickly that I need to stick to talking about the band and my surgery. Cause your comments are flat out feeble and ignorant.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

That is the dumbest thing Ive read in a long time. Sure, buying a building to cover up their disrespect and shadyness.

I realize very quickly that I need to stick to talking about the band and my surgery. Cause your comments are flat out feeble and ignorant.

Real estate deals are feeble and ignorant? Everyone has their price. This is a private business owner who has complied with the zoning laws and your NYC commission has given them the green light. He has the constitutional right to build this center at this location. Those who don't like it can offer to buy him out. That's a business transaction.

But this isn't about WHERE the mosque is - it's about what it is and who is building it.

By all mean, please stick to the other forums. Your comments reveal your bias.

[DonTony 0]

Thats right Im biased.

Im a proud New Yorker that gives and gets respect.

Im against shady people. Their silence speaks volumes.

Im against kissing the asses of anyone to make a worldwide statement.

Im a proud American.

And Im against the building of that Mosque so close to the Towers.

Im biased and damn proud of it. Anyone who doesnt like it can either respect my views, or kiss MY ass.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Thats right Im biased.

Im a proud New Yorker that gives and gets respect.

Im against shady people. Their silence speaks volumes.

Im against kissing the asses of anyone to make a worldwide statement.

Im a proud American.

And Im against the building of that Mosque so close to the Towers.

Im biased and damn proud of it. Anyone who doesnt like it can either respect my views, or kiss MY ass.

What a joke! :cursing: You want people to respect your biased views? Only other biased people would - maybe those teabaggers who wore those "racist and proud of it" tee shirts would. Most people aren't proud of being biased or racist, but we've seen the kind who are.

And just like other posters who say they're done posting here - you'll be back.

[loserbob 11]

It's not that I'm sympathetic to any particular group. If someone is here illegally then that is a law enforcement issue. But when we start singling out specific groups to target then it diminishes us as a country. Our statue of liberty says to give us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to be free. If we start to restrict that to who that means (only white, christian europeans, for example) then it sends a message to the terrorists that they have won.

The terrorist and Al-Qaeda can't destroy us by destroying our buildings but they can if they turn this country into a country divided with hate everywhere and that's where it's headed. Every conservative talk radio is about hate. That is how they will destroy us - so that we no longer would be the country that stands for freedom for all, equality for all, religious freedom, etc... And when then do that they can sit back and say they've won. And then we will be like them. Because they hate everyone and are exclusive and have no equality or freedoms. And they would never let a christian church be built in Saudi Arabia.

Ok, good point. It makes sense but like most angered by the mosque issue its based more on emotions than legality.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Ok, good point. It makes sense but like most angered by the mosque issue its based more on emotions than legality.

I agree and if you've been reading my posts on all the threads you'll see that I seldom make emotional posts. I prefer to deal with facts.

So much of the hate radio coming from the right is just filled with emotion, fear, lies, distortion, etc.. and I find it frustrating that people buy into that.

You seem like a smart guy, bob, and I know how you feel about Muslims. But at the end of this discussion what the people want is for the Muslims to say - "We're sorry, we'll move. We shouldn't have even considered it."

You and I both know that's not going to happen. So what is the solution? Torch the building? They threw a fire bomb on the mosque that was being built in Tennessee. And wrote "Not Welcome" on the signs saying the mosque was being built there. So are all mosques no longer welcome? Anywhere? Where does it end?

I try to look at issues and be reasonable and look at the problem and solutions. And the facts.

So, what are the solutions to this mosque issue? I've offered one. But it was ridiculed. I don't see any other solutions offered.

[loserbob 11]

I couldn't find the article. Why don't you cut and paste it?

I dont know how to do that kind of stuff. I found the Paladino thing 2 days ago. I typed in "History of mosques at conquered sites" and one article was from the capitol confidential. Although I was unable to find any such sites.

[loserbob 11]

I live in NY and knew someone that died on 9/11 so I'll chime in with my biggest gripe.

Not one Muslim of any authority has ever stepped up and stated.... 'out of respect to our fellow New Yorkers that lost loved ones and are still suffering, we'll move the planned Mosque further away from the Towers.'

They are not acting like New Yorkers. They are not showing any respect or concern to fellow New Yorkers. If they moved it just a short distance away, it would have given their fellow New Yorkers an Olive Branch. But instead, all the unknowns, the past comments, the silence, and the shadyness just adds salt to the wounds of many.

I am sick and tired of our Government always kissing the asses of the Muslim population and others abroad. There's always this idea that we have to 'show the world' we are a melting pot. People around the world should be kissing our asses. And the Muslims that live the United States should be the ones voicing their love and appreciation for the US to those abroad.

There are many good people in NY that are Muslim. I have a few friends that are there for me always, and vice versa. And even they can't believe how cold the people are behind this Mosque. Even if they didn't agree with the thousands in NY that are suffering and affected by this, they should move it out of respect.

I agree 100%

[loserbob 11]

Let me ask a question. Why do the Muslims want to build a church or recreation center for themselves there? Why there? Why so close to ground zero? Why is it so important to them? Why has this become such a defining issue for them?

Do you think it is because they are wanting to demonstrate to U.S. citizens and the world that they are proud to be a part of this country which is so hated by Islamic extremists? You think they want to erect a center or church in the United States at that site so that they can show respect for this country and the diversity and understanding and freedom that it stands for? Do you think that is what motivates them? Do you think they just want to become good Americans, with love and tolerance for every individual's beliefs, whether Jew, Christian, atheist, or individuals who don't believe in anything at all?

Do you think there's a chance they are somehow paying tribute to this great country by building a mosque near ground zero? Really?

When it is ever time for America to represent itself? What in the world about OUR identity? Do we even have one?

Or are we just a blob of humanity with no real identity of our own? Sure being a melting pot is a good thing. Respect for others is fantastic. Freedom is what the United States is all about - freedom for all!

But what about those of us who would like to enjoy freedom from the reminders of the hate and mudererous activity of 9/11 on that site - committed by Muslim terrorists?

Are we not due some respect and freedom to enjoy life in our own city without feeling conquered yet again by having a constant reminder of the horrors of 9/11 with a building on that site built by a religion whose fundamentalist extremist faction did the deed and vows to continue to do us harm?

I believe in freedom for all. I believe in this country. I hate discrimination. I do not hate the Muslim religion. I do not hate Muslims. But I have to ask, why build a mosque there? Why right there? Why is that location so important to them? And why is it so unreasonable of us to want them to build it somewhere else, somewhere AWAY from the site of the former World Trade Center?

If they came out and defended this country by voiceing their opinions then maybe but when the guy in charge talks about how we brought 9-11 on ourselves etc. then hell no!

Im lost, Im getting ahead of myself here. Im not sure who wrote the story but I agree again. The point I made refers to the part about building because theyre proud of this bountry bs!

[loserbob 11]

I agree and if you've been reading my posts on all the threads you'll see that I seldom make emotional posts. I prefer to deal with facts.

So much of the hate radio coming from the right is just filled with emotion, fear, lies, distortion, etc.. and I find it frustrating that people buy into that.

You seem like a smart guy, bob, and I know how you feel about Muslims. But at the end of this discussion what the people want is for the Muslims to say - "We're sorry, we'll move. We shouldn't have even considered it."

You and I both know that's not going to happen. So what is the solution? Torch the building? They threw a fire bomb on the mosque that was being built in Tennessee. And wrote "Not Welcome" on the signs saying the mosque was being built there. So are all mosques no longer welcome? Anywhere? Where does it end?

I try to look at issues and be reasonable and look at the problem and solutions. And the facts.

So, what are the solutions to this mosque issue? I've offered one. But it was ridiculed. I don't see any other solutions offered.

BUT, just remember, it wont happen! You heard it here first.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Here's a sarcastic article about bush's connection and appointment of this Imam:

And here’s where the rubber meets the road-side bomb: George Bush totally was hanging out with this Imam guy! Like, all the time! And so was his BFF Karen Hughes!

No, seriously.

What Hughes neglected to say is that Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf (the crazy man behind this 9/11 Mosque of Terrorism and Death) was dispatched by George W. Bush, Compassionate Conservative-in-Chief, as the ambassador of goodwill for Islam. GW sent Rauf and Hughes on a global speaking tour to talk about Islam in America and how we can’t blame all Muslims for the acts of a few crazy Muslims:

If one were to hearken back to the halcyon days of the Bush Administration, one would remember that, when Bush adviser Karen Hughes was appointed Undersecretary of State for Public Diplomacy, the Bush Administration saw improving America’s standing among Muslims abroad as a part of its national security strategy

. And, as such, Hughes set up listening tours, attended meetings and worked with interfaith groups that — shocking, by today’s Republican standards — included actual Muslims.

One of those people was Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf.

Contemporary press accounts indicate that Rauf and Hughes were part of the February 2006 U.S.-Islamic World Forum in Doha, Qatar. He was part of a delegation that met with her in March 2006 and held a joint press conference. A letter to then-Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice in November 2007 indicates that contacts with Hughes and Under Secretary for Political Affairs Nicholas Burns had continued apace.

So there you have it, 68%. If any of you voted for Bush and/or still admire him, you should know that he makes a habit of palin’ around with terrorists. Not just “palin’ around”1 with them, but actually appointing them to speak FOR AMERICA.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

If they came out and defended this country by voiceing their opinions then maybe but when the guy in charge talks about how we brought 9-11 on ourselves etc. then hell no!

a poster from another forum site:

Poor Bill

Thu, 08/19/2010 - 02:03 ET by MooseOfReason O'Reilly must've missed that clip of Glenn Beck saying the exact same thing, that our minding of other countries' business and our being in bed with dictators had a negative effect and came back to bite us.

And Glenn Beck just had a big DC rally to say we need more religion in our government.

[loserbob 11]

Todays Pittsburgh Tribune Review

Mosque backer aided Hamas

Hisham Elzanaty, 51 Who's role in the partnership was confirmed by Sharif Al-Gamal, the patnerships general manager!

Zanaty, (a confirmed investor)and medical clinic owner whose expressions of sympathy for Palestinians included a donation to a charity later shut down for links to Hamas! Reached by phone, Elzanaty declined to speak immediately with the ass. press.

Tax records show Elzanaty gave $6,050 to "The Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development" foundation in 1999! It raised millions of dollars from AMERICANS(Yah, lets keep givin, we are idiots arent we?) in the 90s, telling donors the money would fund schools, orphanages, and social welfare programs! 2 years after Elzanaty's donation, the foundations assets were frozen by the US gov. which it accused of being a fundraiser for Hamas!

The foundation and some of its leaders were indicted in 04 on charges of supporting Hamas. 5 were ultimately convicted!

Of course Elzanaty's lawyer said he had no knowledge of the groups involvement with Hamas when he made the donation! They never do!

So, out of the small group of investors, one is already caught in shady donations! These poor Muslims, we're just picking on a whole group because we're racist Americans! And we're supposed to believe most Muslims arent sympathetic towards extremism. Sorry Ill believe when I have proof, until then Its pathetic to believe theyre not sympathetic!! (God I wish I knew how to cut and paste)