"god" wants me, needs me, shows me....

[pattygreen 5]

The bible says that "the prayers of the righteous are powerful and effective." Who are the 'righteous'? Those who believe in Jesus. HE has made them righteous in the sight of God. Many people turn to God in prayer when they have urgent needs (a dying child, a sick family member, etc.) yet, ignore God and have no relationship with Him at other times. It says that the prayers of the 'righteous' are powerful and effective.This is insulting. As if to say, well if your dying loved one doesn't recover, it's because you don't have the right relationship with Jesus and your prayers won't be answered. [END]

Why is that insulting? It doesn't say that the prayers of every living human being are powerful and effective. It says the prayers of the 'righteous'. In the bible, the 'righteous' are those who have asked to be God's children. Doesn't God have the right to be a parent to His children? If your son asked something of you, wouldn't you give it to him if it wouldn't harm him or if it would benefit him? Of course. We all want to give good gifts to our children. This is why God will give His children anything that they ask for in the name of His son, Jesus, if it is in accordance with His will.

We are told in John 9:31, "Now we know that God does not hear sinners; but if anyone is a worshiper of God and does His will, He hears him." There are people whose prayer God will not hear. Isaiah 59:2 says, "But your iniquities have separated you from your God; and your sins have hidden His face from you, so that He will not hear."

This tells us that God does not hear or answer the prayers of those who do not trust in Jesus to make them 'righteous' before the Father. He might hear the prayer of the unbeliever, but he will act on the prayers from His children. Of course, God can answer anyones prayer, even an unbeliever's prayer, if He chooses to, but He promises to answer His children's prayers. Jesus gave us authority in His name to be able to defeat the devil and his schemes. He gave us power in His name to heal the sick and to move mountains, (overcome BIG problems). Faith is all that's needed.

If your dying loved one does not recover after you pray for him, it's because God wanted to bring him home. He brought him into the world, and he has every right to take him out of it. If He was going to take his life, and you prayed,and were not one of His children, he may not hear you due to the fact that he doesn't hear unrepentant sinner's prayers. But, if you prayed for your loved one, and you were a believer in Jesus, He may change His mind and heal him and allow him to recover because you asked him to.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

pattygreen: The bible says that "the prayers of the righteous are powerful and effective." Who are the 'righteous'? Those who believe in Jesus. HE has made them righteous in the sight of God. Many people turn to God in prayer when they have urgent needs (a dying child, a sick family member, etc.) yet, ignore God and have no relationship with Him at other times. It says that the prayers of the 'righteous' are powerful and effective.This is insulting. As if to say, well if your dying loved one doesn't recover, it's because you don't have the right relationship with Jesus and your prayers won't be answered. [END]

Why is that insulting? It doesn't say that the prayers of every living human being are powerful and effective. It says the prayers of the 'righteous'. In the bible, the 'righteous' are those who have asked to be God's children. Doesn't God have the right to be a parent to His children? If your son asked something of you, wouldn't you give it to him if it wouldn't harm him or if it would benefit him? Of course. We all want to give good gifts to our children. This is why God will give His children anything that they ask for in the name of His son, Jesus, if it is in accordance with His will.

It's insulting because we are all supposed to be God's children whom he loves equally. I don't remember learning that he picks and chooses which prayers to "answer" based on whether you are born again or righteous. It's insulting because who among us can call themselves righteous?

And time and time again, when someone opposes your biblical interpretation, you criticize them for taking a biblical quote out of context yet you do it all the time.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

If death is such a joy, then why even bother with "creating" us? I'm sure the wife and mother who lost her husband and two of her triplets in that freak accident didn't rejoice.

[end quote]

Death IS a joy... to God and to those who love Him.

The problem is that people do not understand the spiritual life of human beings. Those who have not been born again, I mean, don't understand. The world we live in is a battlefield spiritually, and God must let the battle ensue so that good can conquer evil in the end. The mother who lost her children in an accident that you speak about, are only thinking about the present, and what a loss it is, and her griief. I can understand that. I just lost my own mother recently. I certainly understand grief. But, even though these things happen in life and are very much so a part of life, it doesn't mean that God is not real and/or doesn't care about us because he allows them to happen. It just means that sometimes Satan wins a battle now and then temporarily. All the more reason for Christians to step up their prayers. But, have no fear, he may win a battle sometimes, but the war itself is won by God. In the end, He has the victory!

This is b.s. I do not believe that satan wins when some a$$hole, coming off a night of alcohol and drugs doesn't secure a wood chipper properly which then comes loose, hits a van and kills a father and two of the three triplets.

And I never said God wasn't real or doesn't care. I said he doesn't interfere. That wood chipper coming loose was the result of human error and a random freak accident. It could have come loose and not hit a car. He could have secured it better. Lots of things could have happened but didn't. Random acts of nature and purposeful acts of humans - that's what life is about. Not God interfering in everything.

[BJean 16]

God doesn't interfere or cause bad or good things to happen. People need to wise up and take responsibility for their actions and understand that people are fallible, accidents happen and there are good people and bad people in this world. Stop giving God credit for the good stuff and stop blaming the devil for the bad stuff.

This entire discussion reminds me of a time when people worshipped the sun god or rain god or whatever god they created in their heads so that they could explain things away that they couldn't deal with.

Life is precious, death is inevitable. Everything inbetween is up to us. We might read the good book for guidance on how to be a better person, a better wife or husband, a better parent or friend but it's a guide book, written by fallible people, not the literal word of God.

And I know that the more someone who is a close-minded, extremist religious fanatic hears that, it will merely cause them to dig their heels in deeper because they find such comfort in their beliefs. That's fine, whatever works for them... just so long as their beliefs are not forced on me. Because my beliefs are every bit as real and important to me as theirs are to them.

[pattygreen 5]

It's insulting because we are all supposed to be God's children whom he loves equally.

God's children are those who ask Jesus to be their savior. Those who believe in Him. God's children are those who ask to be in His family. ALL others are His 'creation', until they get adopted. (by their own choice or decision to be so) Not everyone that was created is a child of God's, only those who want to be. God loves all of His creation equally, and he desires that none of them should perish, yet he protects and cherishes and takes care of those who make Him their Father. He hears their prayers and answers all who call on His name.

I don't remember learning that he picks and chooses which prayers to "answer" based on whether you are born again or righteous. It's insulting because who among us can call themselves righteous?

I can. And many other Christians as well. Jesus said that Christians are the 'righteous' ones. Even though we Christians fail every day, we are considered righteous in God's eyes through what Jesus did for us on the cross. When God looks at us, he sees his son, Jesus, in us, and wipes away our unrighteousness. We are not righteous by any means of our own. We are considered righteous because Jesus made us so. We are all sinners, yet Jesus took his children's sin from them and made them righteous in His Father's sight. When there is no sin standing in the way of God hearing your prayers, they can get answered.

And time and time again, when someone opposes your biblical interpretation, you criticize them for taking a biblical quote out of context yet you do it all the time.

What biblical quote have I taken out of context? I will try to clear it up.

................................

[pattygreen 5]

God doesn't interfere or cause bad or good things to happen. People need to wise up and take responsibility for their actions and understand that people are fallible, accidents happen and there are good people and bad people in this world. Stop giving God credit for the good stuff and stop blaming the devil for the bad stuff.

God is in control of all things. People's actions cause things to happen, this is true, but God intervenes on behalf of His children. Just like any parent does for their own kids. Satan is always there to tempt people to go against what God deems good. The Lord's own prayer, that He taught us, states " and lead us not into temptation" and "deliver us from evil" for a reason. Because satan is always doing his utmost to keep humans from finding Jesus.

This entire discussion reminds me of a time when people worshipped the sun god or rain god or whatever god they created in their heads so that they could explain things away that they couldn't deal with.

Life is precious, death is inevitable. Everything inbetween is up to us. We might read the good book for guidance on how to be a better person, a better wife or husband, a better parent or friend but it's a guide book, written by fallible people, not the literal word of God.

And I know that the more someone who is a close-minded, extremist religious fanatic hears that, it will merely cause them to dig their heels in deeper because they find such comfort in their beliefs. That's fine, whatever works for them... just so long as their beliefs are not forced on me. Because my beliefs are every bit as real and important to me as theirs are to them.

bjean, I'm not forcing my beliefs on you. I hope that's not what you're talking about when you say "forcing their beliefs on you". You have every choice in whether you read what I have to say about God or not. No one is "forcing' anything on you.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

It's insulting because we are all supposed to be God's children whom he loves equally.

God's children are those who ask Jesus to be their savior. Those who believe in Him. God's children are those who ask to be in His family. ALL others are His 'creation', until they get adopted. (by their own choice or decision to be so) Not everyone that was created is a child of God's, only those who want to be. God loves all of His creation equally, and he desires that none of them should perish, yet he protects and cherishes and takes care of those who make Him their Father. He hears their prayers and answers all who call on His name.

This is not true. And if it's what you born agains believe then you are wrong. Period. God does not just answer the prayers or protect or cherish only the born agains. How covenient for you born agains to come to that conclusion/interpretation. How self-serving. I guess the jews better quit praying. No one is listening.

I don't remember learning that he picks and chooses which prayers to "answer" based on whether you are born again or righteous. It's insulting because who among us can call themselves righteous?

I can. And many other Christians as well. Jesus said that Christians are the 'righteous' ones. Even though we Christians fail every day, we are considered righteous in God's eyes through what Jesus did for us on the cross. When God looks at us, he sees his son, Jesus, in us, and wipes away our unrighteousness. We are not righteous by any means of our own. We are considered righteous because Jesus made us so. We are all sinners, yet Jesus took his children's sin from them and made them righteous in His Father's sight. When there is no sin standing in the way of God hearing your prayers, they can get answered.

Well, you certainly come off as self-righteous with your posts, that's for sure. And if God wipes away our unrighteousness, then we are all righteous. And if only those without sin get their prayers answered then everyone would be out of luck.

And time and time again, when someone opposes your biblical interpretation, you criticize them for taking a biblical quote out of context yet you do it all the time.

What biblical quote have I taken out of context? I will try to clear it up.

Every one of your bible quotes is one line here, one line there to try to justify your point. But if anyone else does that you to support their position you criticize them for taking something from the bible out of context. You can't have it both ways.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

God doesn't interfere or cause bad or good things to happen. People need to wise up and take responsibility for their actions and understand that people are fallible, accidents happen and there are good people and bad people in this world. Stop giving God credit for the good stuff and stop blaming the devil for the bad stuff.

This entire discussion reminds me of a time when people worshipped the sun god or rain god or whatever god they created in their heads so that they could explain things away that they couldn't deal with.

Life is precious, death is inevitable. Everything inbetween is up to us. We might read the good book for guidance on how to be a better person, a better wife or husband, a better parent or friend but it's a guide book, written by fallible people, not the literal word of God.

And I know that the more someone who is a close-minded, extremist religious fanatic hears that, it will merely cause them to dig their heels in deeper because they find such comfort in their beliefs. That's fine, whatever works for them... just so long as their beliefs are not forced on me. Because my beliefs are every bit as real and important to me as theirs are to them.

I absolutely agree with this. This is what I believe, too. And I don't believe that praying to God with a laundry list of wishes does any good because things will or will not happen according to what we do and nature does. We have some control but much is random.

[pattygreen 5]

This is b.s. I do not believe that satan wins when some a$$hole, coming off a night of alcohol and drugs doesn't secure a wood chipper properly which then comes loose, hits a van and kills a father and two of the three triplets.

Satan wins whenever someone dies and has yet to ask Jesus to be their Savior. That's when he wins. Every soul that he could bring to hell with him is a victory for him and a great loss for the individual after this life. He wins if that father died without asking to be a part of His creators family and to have his name written in the book of life that will be opened on the ressurection day. The 2 children who died in the accident win. They win because they receive eternal life. All children are are allowed to enter Heaven unless they have reached an age of accountability that God deems fit for them.

And I never said God wasn't real or doesn't care. I said he doesn't interfere.

Oh, but He does! He intervenes in all His children's lives. He watches out for them. He protects them. He blesses them, He corrects and disciplines them. He loves them. If he doesn't interfere, then why did he bother to tell us to pray? For prayer is what God uses to 'interfere' with. His children ask of Him, and he intervenes.

That wood chipper coming loose was the result of human error and a random freak accident. It could have come loose and not hit a car. He could have secured it better. Lots of things could have happened but didn't. Random acts of nature and purposeful acts of humans - that's what life is about.

This is all true what you say, but when these 'random acts' occur, God is there for His children. He smooths the way. I love His promise that says "All things work out for the good for those who love the Lord." For who? THOSE WHO LOVE THE LORD!

Not God interfering in everything.

I'm sooo thankful for God's interferences in my life.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

I'm sooo thankful for God's interferences in my life.

Well, he doesn't interfere in mine. I take responsibility for what I can and just look at the rest as random. There are some people who are hit with extraordinary bad things happening to them while others live like kings and queens and for neither does it have anything to do with their beliefs or lack thereof or with their prayers or lack thereof. Stuff happens and life's not fair. Only for some people it's more unfair than for others. Period.

[pattygreen 5]

My new comments are in green.

It's insulting because we are all supposed to be God's children whom he loves equally.

God's children are those who ask Jesus to be their savior. Those who believe in Him. God's children are those who ask to be in His family. ALL others are His 'creation', until they get adopted. (by their own choice or decision to be so) Not everyone that was created is a child of God's, only those who want to be. God loves all of His creation equally, and he desires that none of them should perish, yet he protects and cherishes and takes care of those who make Him their Father. He hears their prayers and answers all who call on His name.

This is not true. And if it's what you born agains believe then you are wrong. Period. God does not just answer the prayers or protect or cherish only the born agains. How covenient for you born agains to come to that conclusion/interpretation. How self-serving. I guess the jews better quit praying. No one is listening.

First of all, I am a Christian. Not a Born again.(although I'm okay with being called a born again Christian, I am not okay with making 'born agains' something other than a Christian.) I am not wrong about what I say. God answers the prayers of the righteous. Jesus alone can make a person righteous. God hears all prayers. He answers the prayers of believers, and he may answer the prayers of unbelievers if it will draw them to Him and bring them into a relationship with Him. He is in the business of bringing men unto Himself. His soul purpose is to draw his creation into a relationship with His son, Jesus and therefore a relationship with Him. He answers the unbelievers prayer for salvation, but when he does, they have already come to have faith, or they would not be asking Him to save them in the first place. So, the bible teaches that he will not hear the prayers of the wicked. Like I said, not all humans are God's children, only those who put their faith in Him. They are His creation. Period. Until they repent and ask Jesus to save them. Then, He makes them part of His family and they have all the blessings of God and become His rightful heirs. You all can be a part of his family, too.

I don't remember learning that he picks and chooses which prayers to "answer" based on whether you are born again or righteous. It's insulting because who among us can call themselves righteous?

I can. And many other Christians as well. Jesus said that Christians are the 'righteous' ones. Even though we Christians fail every day, we are considered righteous in God's eyes through what Jesus did for us on the cross. When God looks at us, he sees his son, Jesus, in us, and wipes away our unrighteousness. We are not righteous by any means of our own. We are considered righteous because Jesus made us so. We are all sinners, yet Jesus took his children's sin from them and made them righteous in His Father's sight. When there is no sin standing in the way of God hearing your prayers, they can get answered.

Well, you certainly come off as self-righteous with your posts, that's for sure. And if God wipes away our unrighteousness, then we are all righteous.

God wipes away our unrighteousness WHEN we ask Jesus to be our Savior, not before. Therfore, we are NOT all righteous. It may seem to the reader that I am being self righteous, but this is not so. I know better than anyone the vastness of my sins. God is the one who makes me righteous in his eyes. I do not have the power to do that.

And if only those without sin get their prayers answered then everyone would be out of luck.

Don't you get it? The believer is sanctified. Justified. He is seen as sinnless before God, because of the sacrifice of Jesus. So, we are all sinners, but only the believer is free from the condemnation of that sin.

And time and time again, when someone opposes your biblical interpretation, you criticize them for taking a biblical quote out of context yet you do it all the time.

What biblical quote have I taken out of context? I will try to clear it up.

Every one of your bible quotes is one line here, one line there to try to justify your point. But if anyone else does that you to support their position you criticize them for taking something from the bible out of context. You can't have it both ways.

You may go to your bible and look up any quote that I have chosen and read the contents of where it came from and if you feel that I have pulled it out of contents, then complain to me about it.

.......................................

[123crod 170]

God judges His people not to destroy them, but to bring them to repentance, forgiveness, and redemption.

Communion with God is the highest activity of which people are capable of. The Biblical doctrine of prayer, however, emphasizes God's character and the necessity of being in a right covenant relationship with Him. (Jn 4:24) and that God does not therefore automatically “hear” every prayer. (Is. 1:15).

[loserbob 11]

I think when I read a thread that starts as this one did that it seems to draw me to it because it is human nature to defend those you love, so I read them and although I do not have the same knowledge as pattygreen does I still feel the need to defend what I too believe in.

Just as you defend what you believe in. Is there a reason you feel the way you do? Always felt this way even as a kid?. If it is okay to ask. I read the Christian Bandsters thread too. I guess I am just not a debater, which is what these threads are all about I just seem to take it too personal.

Cheri

Its not knoeledge itsc alot of bs!

[BJean 16]

When Pat Robertson said that God's wrath was raining down on New Orleans via the hurricane I'm sure he probably said that the oil spill was more of God's wrath.

Except wait a minute, Robertson's favored folks - the wealthy - have been hit in their pocketbooks by the oil spill. How has he been explaining that?

What an absurd idea that God plays a role in blessing people with wealth and making sure that others never achieve wealth or his blessings because they're ignorant of what patty and others are claiming that faith in God is all about.

Rich people and poor people believe in God and have been born again. It isn't about wealth or health or happiness. Pat Robertson is a self-serving person who is bad to the bone. And folks keep sending their hard-earned money to him, thinking that in some way God will favor them for doing it.

If God works that way we are very unfortunate to have a creator who is that hateful. It's like someone who adopts a dog and whips their dog when it doesn't instantly obey a command. But in truth, the pet is just an animal with totally different thought processes and needs than their owners.

If God worked that way he'd make sure that the born again Baptist church team wins all the baseball games and the poor ignorant sand lot team loses every time.

It's as backward as thinking that Zeus will strike you down with his lightning and Eros will bless you with a loving companion.

[pattygreen 5]

When Pat Robertson said that God's wrath was raining down on New Orleans via the hurricane I'm sure he probably said that the oil spill was more of God's wrath.

Except wait a minute, Robertson's favored folks - the wealthy - have been hit in their pocketbooks by the oil spill. How has he been explaining that?

What an absurd idea that God plays a role in blessing people with wealth and making sure that others never achieve wealth or his blessings because they're ignorant of what patty and others are claiming that faith in God is all about.

Rich people and poor people believe in God and have been born again. It isn't about wealth or health or happiness. Pat Robertson is a self-serving person who is bad to the bone. And folks keep sending their hard-earned money to him, thinking that in some way God will favor them for doing it.

If God works that way we are very unfortunate to have a creator who is that hateful. It's like someone who adopts a dog and whips their dog when it doesn't instantly obey a command. But in truth, the pet is just an animal with totally different thought processes and needs than their owners.

If God worked that way he'd make sure that the born again Baptist church team wins all the baseball games and the poor ignorant sand lot team loses every time.

It's as backward as thinking that Zeus will strike you down with his lightning and Eros will bless you with a loving companion.

Pat Robertson is a human being with many faults, just like the rest of God's creation.

God's soul purpose when intervening on this earth in any way, through answering prayers, through natural disasters, through crisis or through blessings is that it will in some way turn the sinner towards Him. His interference in the lives of all people is strictly to draw them to Jesus, His Son. If a tornado passing through a certain town will do that, he will allow it. If a sick child will bring his parents to their knees before God, he will allow it. If His giving a blessing to someone will make them acknowledge God and give Him thanks, he will give it. His whole purpose is the salvation of souls. God knows what each individual needs to have happen in their own lives to bring them to a point of recognizing that He is who He says He is. God works in this earth drawing men unto Himself. It is His desire that none should perish, but that all should be saved from the coming wrath. Satan, OTOH, is working in this earth to keep people from turning toward God. It is his whole purpose to distract mankind and to do whatever it takes to keep them from finding out that God exists and that he can save them from the coming wrath. He wants to take as many souls as he can to hell with him, and he knows his time is short, so he works all the more at it. Evil is multiplying here on earth. You can read and hear more and more about it every day. The truth of God is becoming a reality. Mankind is making what God deems good out to be wrong and what God deems bad out to be right and acceptable. This is Satans scheme to keep people from God. Keep them biblically illiterate, so they will be lost forever.