"god" wants me, needs me, shows me....

[BJean 16]

Oh, I see. I never thought of that. Thanks for clearning that up for us.

The sky is falling faster today than it was in the 60's when the fundamentalists said we only had a little bit of time before the second coming. Thank goodness we have such Enlightened folks to map it all out for us. I'd hate to be left down here on earth while you're floating up to the heavens.

[pattygreen 5]

Oh, I see. I never thought of that. Thanks for clearning that up for us.

The sky is falling faster today than it was in the 60's when the fundamentalists said we only had a little bit of time before the second coming. Thank goodness we have such Enlightened folks to map it all out for us. I'd hate to be left down here on earth while you're floating up to the heavens.

The bible actually fortells of people just like you, bjean, who will in the latter days deny His coming.

2 Peter 3:3-9 (New International Version)

3First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4They will say, "Where is this 'coming' he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation." 5But they deliberately forget that long ago by God's word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of Water and by Water. 6By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. 7By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men. 8But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

[BJean 16]

I beg your pardon. You insufferable twit. I have never denied the existence of God.

And the Bible foretells that no one will know the actual time of the second coming. About the time you think you know everything, you'll learn that you were wrong. Oh wait. One can only learn if one is open to learning - and you can't be accused of being open to or of expanding your thought processes. You are only receptive to your very narrow interpretations and your extremely biased thoughts.

And oh brilliant one, the person who has all the mysteries of the Bible figured out (she says sarcastically), it is about you whom the passages you quote are speaking to.

[pattygreen 5]

I beg your pardon. You insufferable twit. I have never denied the existence of God.

I never said you denied God's existance, I said you denied his coming soon. You said this: {quote} The sky is falling faster today than it was in the 60's when the fundamentalists said we only had a little bit of time before the second coming. Thank goodness we have such Enlightened folks to map it all out for us. I'd hate to be left down here on earth while you're floating up to the heavens. {end} Your mocking those from the 60's who said that he was coming soon leads me to believe you don't agree with them.

And the Bible foretells that no one will know the actual time of the second coming.

It says that we wont know the day nor the hour. But we will have a general idea around when. Because it is when we see the signs that he has pointed out to us in his word that Jesus will come back for us.

About the time you think you know everything, you'll learn that you were wrong. Oh wait. One can only learn if one is open to learning - and you can't be accused of being open to or of expanding your thought processes. You are only receptive to your very narrow interpretations and your extremely biased thoughts.

And oh brilliant one, the person who has all the mysteries of the Bible figured out (she says sarcastically), it is about you whom the passages you quote are speaking to. How do you come to that conclusion? Here is the passage.

3First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. I am not a scoffer who follows my own evil desires. I follow Jesus and His desires.4They will say, "Where is this 'coming' he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation." I have never said that. I never doubt that what Jesus says he will do will happen. I believe he will come back. I don't question his word. If he says he will return, he will. 5But they deliberately forget that long ago by God's word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of Water and by Water.< /span> I have never forgotten that the world is here because of God. 6By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. 7By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men. 8But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. None of this scripture was refering to me. It was refering to those who scoff at the word of God. Those who mock those who say "Jesus is returning soon." It's for those who say ,"where is this coming all you Christians talk about. Things have been going just the way they have been for sooo many years and He hasn't returned yet!" People like you!

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[BJean 16]

patty: "Your mocking those from the 60's who said that he was coming soon leads me to believe you don't agree with them."

Oh no, I do agree with them. He came and everyone was busy and they missed it. Maybe it'll happen again, eh?

[BJean 16]

You put your own slant on what I post. That's your problem, dear. You think that YOUR way is the only way to the truth and the light. YOU are quite incorrect. So you choose to believe that I "scoff" because I do not agree with you.

Fact is that I did actually agree with those who believed the second coming was imminent in the 60's. Fact is that He did not return. Are you scoffing at that fact? Or just oblivious?

People have been claiming that His return will be very soon, for all the years that they've been reading the Bible. I don't doubt that He will return - what I doubt (and I think the term "scoff" is inappropriate when referring to me) is that YOU know when He's coming and that your profession to know such a thing is absurd. If you really knew what you were talking about you'd know that it is not wise to make such a prouncement.

But I do admit that I think being wise is not what you seek.

[pattygreen 5]

People have been claiming that His return will be very soon, for all the years that they've been reading the Bible. I don't doubt that He will return - what I doubt {bjean quote}and I think the term "scoff" is inappropriate when referring to me) is that YOU know when He's coming and that your profession to know such a thing is absurd. If you really knew what you were talking about you'd know that it is not wise to make such a prouncement. {end}

I never said that I knew when He was coming. Talk about putting your own slant on what someone says! I said people could know around about the time by looking at the signs. Jesus said when you see certain signs, you will know that his coming is near. I don't want to get into all those signs right now, just that this is scriptural:

From Matthew chapter 24

42 “Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming.

43 “But be sure of this, that if the head of the house had known at what time of the night the thief was coming, he would have been on the alert and would not have allowed his house to be broken into.

44 “For this reason you also must be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will.

[BJean 16]

So if you just keep saying it constantly, you figure eventually you'll have to be right, eh?

What is lost on you is that if you're living right... if you actually behave in a righteous way - not just talk the talk you see, but actually walk the walk - you don't have to worry about the second coming. You don't have to go around making judgements about and lecturing those "non believers" about how they're going to be left behind and you don't have to be "afraid" for others who haven't been "born again" who haven't "accepted Jesus Christ as their own personal savior" because you will be setting an example based on love and goodness instead of ranting and raving on your right wing platform about how they're going to hell and you aren't.

But then you enjoy the superiority of your position. That's why you do it. That's why you say the self-righteous things that you say. It makes you feel good and it is reinforcement that you are one of the chosen ones and those who don't believe as you do are the poor unfortunates.

What a sad little world you live in. And the saddest part is that you have no idea what real life and love and goodness are all about. Because if you did, you could never speak the way you do about others. You could never turn anyone away from a food line. You could never begrudge a helping hand to someone who needs it whether you think they deserve it or not. And you could never judge a woman who would rather die than carry a baby to term. And you could never pull the switch on a condemned murderer. But you could do all of those things and you find pleasure in them. And you justify your beliefs by pounding out scriptures ad nauseum on this little forum and who knows elsewhere. And like Mel Gibson, you think you are better than those who don't share your beliefs and your behavior. It's just very very sad because you may well be the one who is left behind because you have used your beliefs like a sledge hammer. And with a stinging sense of superiority. There is absolutely no love or goodness in that. And that is what God wants from us for our existence here on earth - peace, love and goodness toward all mankind.

[pattygreen 5]

So if you just keep saying it constantly, you figure eventually you'll have to be right, eh?

What is lost on you is that if you're living right... if you actually behave in a righteous way - not just talk the talk you see, but actually walk the walk - you don't have to worry about the second coming.

You certainly DO have to worry about it! Our good deeds don't allow us entrance into Heaven. How many times do I have to tell you that? It's not about "behavior". It's about "faith" in Jesus. Your behavior will determine your rewards, or lack of them, once you get there, but it doesn't determine your destination. So, whether you are living right or behaving in a righteous way, you still better be worried about whether you will go to Heaven or Hell. Jesus said," I am the way and the truth and the life and no man goes to the Father but through Me." You must have faith in His saving power.

You don't have to go around making judgements about and lecturing those "non believers" about how they're going to be left behind and you don't have to be "afraid" for others who haven't been "born again" who haven't "accepted Jesus Christ as their own personal savior" because you will be setting an example based on love and goodness instead of ranting and raving on your right wing platform about how they're going to hell and you aren't.

Let's not make things up, okay? I never tell individuals that they are going to Hell. I have stated what will keep people from going there and I have stated that belief in Jesus is the only way to Heaven, but NEVER have I said that any certain individual is going to Hell.

But then you enjoy the superiority of your position.

Maybe you think that I am feeling more superior than others, but that is not how I really feel. I am just as equal in God's eyes as the next person.

That's why you do it. That's why you say the self-righteous things that you say. It makes you feel good

Not true. So very not true. I do it to share what God has said in His word with others and nothing more. Every time that I post here, I pray that God will plant a seed in the heart of a reader of these posts and He will do a work in them and bring them to His son, Jesus. So that others who read here will understand God's love for them. I may talk directly to you and a few others who post back, but hundreds more are reading than posting.

and it is reinforcement that you are one of the chosen ones and those who don't believe as you do are the poor unfortunates.

God has "CHOSEN" everyone. He chose me and you and every human ever born. It is us who must "CHOOSE" Him.

What a sad little world you live in. And the saddest part is that you have no idea what real life and love and goodness are all about. Because if you did, you could never speak the way you do about others.

I never, ever say a bad thing about anyone. I may speak negatively about the sinful things that others do, but never about them. I love all man kind. I just don't love their sin.

You could never turn anyone away from a food line. You could never begrudge a helping hand to someone who needs it whether you think they deserve it or not. And you could never judge a woman who would rather die than carry a baby to term. And you could never pull the switch on a condemned murderer. But you could do all of those things and you find pleasure in them.

I could turn someone away from a food line if I knew that they were spending their money on fancy clothing instead of buying food, because I would know that they have made their choice. A $200. pair of boots over food. Yes, I could. I know that you feel just fine wasting precious charity on those who abuse it, but I don't. There are sooo many people who REALLY need it, and why give it to those who don't? That's what the government does every day and that's one of the reasons for why we are in the debt we're in as a country.

And you justify your beliefs by pounding out scriptures ad nauseum on this little forum and who knows elsewhere. And like Mel Gibson, you think you are better than those who don't share your beliefs and your behavior. It's just very very sad because you may well be the one who is left behind because you have used your beliefs like a sledge hammer. And with a stinging sense of superiority. There is absolutely no love or goodness in that. And that is what God wants from us for our existence here on earth - peace, love and goodness toward all mankind.

Peace and love and goodness is what God wants, that is true. BUT, He also wants every man to put their faith in His son, Jesus and to forsake their sinful ways. He wants us to obey Him, and to believe what he says in the bible. There is much that he wants, but you will only concentrate on the "goodness" we must live.

[BJean 16]

I concentrate on the goodness because extremist fundamental religious people set themselves up as judge and jury for all of God's children. If someone does not believe as they do, if they do not proclaim to be born again or to have accepted Jesus Christ as their own personal savior, then the extremists pass judgement on them and declare them to be doomed to hell if they don't repent and embrace the Bible - THEIR interpretation of the Bible ONLY. You've written many, many times that certain specific people are going to hell when they disagree with your beliefs. I'm not saying that you wrote it in an ugly way, but you did write it and I have no doubt that you believe it.

There's nothing good about that. It is narrow-minded, it allows no room for error and there is a very important fact that extremists fail to admit or even recognize as truth: the Bible was written (each and every page) by human beings. Human beings are fallible and sinners and mostly motivated by selfish needs.

There is a higher power that is at work and a beautiful spirituality that is achievable which will never be experienced as long as one buries ones self in scripture and claims that their ideology is the only truth. That faulty ideology is seen everyday which is easily and often admitted to by fundamentalist Christians about other religions, like the Muslim religion, Catholicism, the Jewish religion, etc. Such extremist beliefs, in some cases, have fostered the seed that has wound up committing horrible atrocities against human beings throughout history. And that is the kind of blind faith you espouse. The fact that you have not committed an atrocity like death of another human being is commendable of course, but the fact that you are okay with capital punishment is in some ways the same thing.

These are my beliefs. Just as your beliefs are yours. We all have to answer for our own actions and beliefs. I believe that there are many routes to heaven. You believe there is only one. And because you believe that, it allows you to sin and still feel confident that you will be welcome into heaven to sit at the feet of God. I disagree. I believe that you will have to answer for the fact that you accept war as a necessary evil if it suits your personal agenda, capital punishment if you've decided that another human deserves to die and turning someone away from being fed if they are wearing boots that are better than yours.

[pattygreen 5]

I concentrate on the goodness because extremist fundamental religious people set themselves up as judge and jury for all of God's children.

No they don't.

If someone does not believe as they do, if they do not proclaim to be born again or to have accepted Jesus Christ as their own personal savior, then the extremists pass judgement on them and declare them to be doomed to hell

The scripture is very clear, very clear, that one must have Jesus as thier Savior in order to enter Heaven. I will never back down on that. To do so would be to call God a liar! And I will never do that. So, if you want to say that I am passing judgement on someone, then so be it. YES! If a person does NOT have Jesus as their Savior, they will not enter Heaven. "I am the way and the truth and the life, and NO man comes to the Father but through ME" It can't be said any plainer. If you deny it to be from Jesus' own lips, then that's your problem. I didn't write the book. I can't change that fact any more than your denying it will change it. I don't make the rules. Jesus gives us the way there and we can accept it or reject it. It's up to us. It does not make me a judgmental person if He makes it plain as day and then if someone says, "no, I don't believe any of it", I can reason within myself that that unbeliever will not get to Heaven.

if they don't repent and embrace the Bible - THEIR interpretation of the Bible ONLY. You've written many, many times that certain specific people are going to hell when they disagree with your beliefs.

Really? Where? Where did I say that a certain, specific person was going to Hell? Prove it. Bring it up. Don't make things up about what I say.

I'm not saying that you wrote it in an ugly way, but you did write it and I have no doubt that you believe it.

There's nothing good about that. It is narrow-minded, it allows no room for error and there is a very important fact that extremists fail to admit or even recognize as truth: the Bible was written (each and every page) by human beings. Human beings are fallible and sinners and mostly motivated by selfish needs.

God has protected His word throughout the years. He will not allow anyone to tamper with it. It is for the salvation of souls and is extremely important for the people. If he didn't protect his word, then people would be able to use that as excuse for not putting their faith in Him.

There is a higher power that is at work and a beautiful spirituality that is achievable if you call on the name of Jesus. which will never be experienced as long as one buries ones self in scripture and claims that their ideology is the only truth.

Claiming that Jesus is the ONLY way is not wrong. God said it and I believe it. If you choose to feel that there are many ways to God, then go right on believing that. I hope that maybe one day, God will reveal the truth about that to you.

That faulty ideology is seen everyday which is easily and often admitted to by fundamentalist Christians about other religions, like the Muslim religion, Catholicism, the Jewish religion, etc. Such extremist beliefs, in some cases, have fostered the seed that has wound up committing horrible atrocities against human beings throughout history.

You don't need to be a fundamental Christian to be capable of committing horrible atrocities in this world. You just need to be human. To put the blame on them for the many failings of mankind is simply a scheme of the enemy. I wont fall for it. More atrocities have been committed by those who are unbelivers in God than not. So called "Christian", in name only, do not count as being on God's side. True Chriatian are the salt and light of the world. It is the true children of God who help the communities and give to the suffering and minister to the sick and the homeless and the childless and the disabled and the hungry. So don't even go there.

And that is the kind of blind faith you espouse. The fact that you have not committed an atrocity like death of another human being is commendable of course, but the fact that you are okay with capital punishment is in some ways the same thing.

I am okay with it because my God is okay with it. You have a problem with that, then talk to Him.

These are my beliefs. Just as your beliefs are yours. We all have to answer for our own actions and beliefs. I believe that there are many routes to heaven. You believe there is only one. And because you believe that, it allows you to sin and still feel confident that you will be welcome into heaven to sit at the feet of God.

My faith does NOT allow me to sin. If I sin, I must confess my wrongs before God and ask for His forgiveness. I don't know where you get that. If I sin, I will have to answer to God for it when I stand before Him, or He may discipline me here and now for it in some way. So, my faith does not allow me to sin. It just allows the grace of God to be poured out upon me. My sins will not keep me out of Heaven, for Jesus has justified me before the Father by dying on the cross and taking the punishment for what I have done and he spares me from it. Yes, I can have confidence that I will sit at God's feet in His presence, because of what Jesus has done for me, dispite my sins. There is NO ONE who is without sin. It is impossible to go through one day without sinning. Impossible. But our sins do not keep us from the Father's presence, because if they did, then why did Jesus die?

I disagree. I believe that you will have to answer for the fact that you accept war as a necessary evil if it suits your personal agenda,

If someone wants to kill you, it is necessary to kill them first. It is called self defense. So, yes I accept the fact of war. If another Nation wants to overtake your home, why don't you just hand them a pie and say "let's talk." See how well that works for you!

capital punishment if you've decided that another human deserves to die and turning someone away from being fed if they are wearing boots that are better than yours.

I said If I owned a food bank, and knew that a woman was coming into it on a weekly basis to take food, and knew also that she were smoking 3 packs a day of cigarettes ($133./week habit) I would tell her to quit smoking and buy food. She is taking the food from those who REALLY need it. THAT'S what I said, initially. You can try to turn it into a "hatred" of mine for people who are poor, but I know better. Nice try though.

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[btrieger 21]

one must have Jesus as their Savior in order to enter Heaven.

This quote highlights the obvious idiocy of Xtians and their silly beliefs.

Buddhists and Hindus have much better character for the most part than Xtians. Yet, they can't go to the xtian faerie land in the sky because they don't savor Jesus?

What kind of adult believes in this crap?

And no, I am not being a provocateur here. I am just in awe at how gullible some adults can be.

[BJean 16]

You have to remember the degree to which they have been endoctrinated. Hell, fire and brimstone are frightening to people. Some people carry such guilt from the lives they lead that some forms of religion give them a way to live with themselves.

In one part of my post I wasn't simply referring to Christians but many religions throughout history that have been the reason for wars and annilation of vast numbers of human beings.

patty misread and misinterpreted a good bit of my post and she quoted herself in the last paragraph incorrectly from the original post that I remember when she said she turned a woman away from the food line because she was smoking. Another time she said it was because she saw her buying cigarettes. I'm beginning to think that she makes this stuff up for effect and then when she is called out on it, she changes the story to something she feels is more credible or acceptable.

Whatever.

[pattygreen 5]

This quote highlights the obvious idiocy of Xtians and their silly beliefs.

Buddhists and Hindus have much better character for the most part than Xtians. Yet, they can't go to the xtian faerie land in the sky because they don't savor Jesus?

Charachter does not matter when determining ones destination. For ALL have flawed charachter. ALL! No one is better than any other. ALL need a Savior.

What kind of adult believes in this crap?

A very , very high percentage (over 75%) of Americans do.

And no, I am not being a provocateur here. I am just in awe at how gullible some adults can be.

.....................

[pattygreen 5]

You have to remember the degree to which they have been endoctrinated.

I am indoctrinated ONLY by the bible. I have wiped away the falsehoods of my past and have relied solely on the words in the bible that come straight from God alone.

Hell, fire and brimstone are frightening to people.

That is because some ministers of the gospel claim that you burn in it FOREVER and are tortured. They don't read the book . All of it. The fire may burn forever, but your soul and body is burned up and destroyed and life as you know it is over. Unbelievers perish. Believers live on forever. There is more written in the bible about unbelievers perishing and being destroyed than I can count. Yet, so called preachers of God tell others that they will be tortured forever if they don't believe it. This is not so. There are only 2 scriptures in Revelations that speak of eternal suffering, and they are clearly allegory.(figurative) All the many, many, many other scriptures teach that unbelievers are destroyed in the end. Perising, dying. God is not like that. (For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son so that whosoever believes in Him will not perish, but have everlasting life.") ( Matthew 10:28- And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.)

If you don't want to be in existance as a part of God's family in Heaven, you don't have to be. He will end your life on the judgment day forever. Those who choose to be His children, will not die. They will live on to be part of His family. The torture in hell story was made up by people who want you to believe in God so badly, that they scare you into it. Everyone needs to be responsible for what they believe and don't believe by others. Read it for yourself is my motto.

I can remember when the Nuns used to teach that Eve bit an apple. I read the bible for the first time and found out that it wasn't an apple after all. It simply says it was a piece of fruit. No one knows for sure what fruit it was. The bible doesn't say. So, the Catholics decided it was an apple.

This is a fine example of how mankind falsely represents God's word, and why each person needs to read it for themselves.

Some people carry such guilt from the lives they lead that some forms of religion give them a way to live with themselves.

I can say that I was never any horrible person or anything like that before I found God. I would have actually thought that I was good enough to be one of those who made it to Heaven. Once I believed in Jesus, and read His word, then, at that time, I realized that I was a sinner in need of His grace and forgiveness.

In one part of my post I wasn't simply referring to Christians but many religions throughout history that have been the reason for wars and annilation of vast numbers of human beings.

It's not Christian, nor any other religion that causes war time. It's human beings not able to get along with each other. It's greed and selfishness and Satan's desire.

patty misread and misinterpreted a good bit of my post and she quoted herself in the last paragraph incorrectly from the original post that I remember when she said she turned a woman away from the food line because she was smoking.

liar! I never said I did that. It was a scenerio. I said I would do that. Bring it up where I said I actually turned someone away from a food bank. You can't.

Another time she said it was because she saw her buying cigarettes. I'm beginning to think that she makes this stuff up for effect and then when she is called out on it, she changes the story to something she feels is more credible or acceptable.

I am not a liar. I was talking about my tenant, who goes to the food bank every week, yet smokes 3 packs a day. She takes food from those who really need it. She could afford food if she quit wasting her money on smokes. I said that If I owned the food bank, I would turn her away. I would tell her to quit smoking, which is destroying her body, and feed herself. We were discussing how the so called "poor" in this country really aren't so poor, and many of them abuse the free handouts.

Whatever.

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