How important are the rules really?

[beachcitygirl 5]

Spartan- I am so glad you made the comments about insurance paid surgeries. My insurance Company paid for my Lap Band. After reading your post, I now feel I do owe it to them and future paitients to follow the rules. I never thought of the things you brought up. Thanks to everyone who posted. Im newly banded and you guys gave me a lot to think about.

[SavvyCat 0]

Thank goodness my little ones are asleep because it is not in my personality to let personal attacks go unaddressed. First a nod to MissyMS, as she stated very clearly one of the fundamental issues with society in general: "it is high time that people take responsibility for themselves".

I understand that this statement was within the context of weight loss; however, it is universally applicable.

"So…. when you get a prescription from a Doctor, do you ignore the instructions and just dump the whole bottle down your pie-hole…because that’s what you WANT to do?"

If the Rx that the doctor gave me didn't work or made me sick I would pursue something that did.

I am astounded by the amount of hostility & judgement that my original posts have generated. I am going with the assumption that the people on here are band patients and to those who have been so nasty and judgemental I have this to say to you: None of us have gotten to the place that we needed the band by following sound nutritional guidelines, so you are no better than I. Great for you that the band magically changed the way your brain worked or motivated you in a way no diet could or gave you the epiphany you needed to succeed. My questions took nothing away from that. Did you trade the weight in for loads of self righteousness?

"So what if the instructions vary between Surgeons. Their installation techniques vary as well. Some place it a little higher, others a little lower. They suture it in differently. They angle it differently. They have their OWN METHODOLOGIES for performing the surgery. And, if they are good at what they do, they have their own, specific post-op protocols that have been developed to ensure YOUR SUCCESS. AND THEIRS."

So what if what works for one person may not work for another? I guess if I lived on a different continent I would be doing just fine. What makes you so superior that you feel that you have the right to berate or belittle anyone?

"IF you have selected a GOOD Surgeon who has a proven track record of success with LAP-BAND® patients, there is no reason NOT to follow his/her direction."

"If you don’t feel like you are getting the answers you need (and that means NEED, not WANT), then consult another doctor. You are not married to your Surgeon. If you feel you have made a mistake in who you chose to perform your surgery, then look elsewhere. Get professional advice."

I found whatI believed tobe a good surgeon - even the best are not infallible.It was too late when I realized I was wrong. My insurance did cover some of my cost - the result being that, in a way, I am married to this surgeon. He got all of his money up front. If I choose to go elsewhere it will be entirely out of pocket and that is not an option.

"Insurance companies are tightening up with their money for Bariatric surgeries. They do not approve the procedures as readily as they did a year or two ago, and a part of the reason is the increasing incidence of failures: Increasing Erosion, Slippage, and the inability of the band to effect the desired weight loss in many people is causing the insurance industry to re-think the way it allocates funds for these surgeries. And part of this reevaluation is because of the nitwits that decide that they know better than their Doctor how to behave post-surgery. They eat what they want, when they want, and how they want, and then whine about how they’ve only lost a third of the weight they need to lose, or their band slips.

YOUR failure has the potential to impact the chances of other people to have their band paid for by insurance. So, if you are not going to play by the rules laid out by your surgeon, you need to stand aside, and let someone who WILL cooperate get their band, and be successful with it. Every LAP-BAND® success means that there is a better chance that insurance will continue to pay for this procedure. Every failure diminishes that chance."

Are you a surgeon? Are my actions or the actions of others effecting your bottom line? My success or failure is my own. I am not responsible for how insurance companies assess risk. I did not brag, I stated fact. I have not told others what to do - you have. And, since you are so wise, why not be proactive and minister to those who are on the path to needing the band? There, your insurance issue is solved. Also, as MissyMS so eloquently pointed out - the surgeon is not the one offering nutritional advice. The dieticians in my surgeon's practice are banded, which at the time was a selling point, but the bottom line is that they are people who knew the ins and outs and still got fat. They are as human as I am.

"You’ve been doing this on your own for your entire life, and the result has been that you are fat and unhealthy."

You presume much and know little. Yes, I am fat. Not nearly as fat as some, but fatter than others. I was much heavier years ago and have maintained an 80 lb. weight loss for around 15 years, so I have done some things right. My BMI was borderline for approval when I had my surgery. I am lucky to have had insurance that covered me and I do not consider my behavior lack of gratitude. If anything, I feel that asking questions is the best way to protect that investment.

I had preconceived notions about what my experience would be like in an online support group. Many of you have proven me correct.

Spartan, I am savvy enough to assess that you are arrogant and pompous and come off as a complete, (fill in the blank). I wouldn't at all be surprised if you were one of the people who thought Cookie Monster was to blame for a generation of fat kids.... Get over yourself.

[LapNYC 3]

I honestly don't think people are attacking you or your inability to adhere to your surgeon's guidelines. If you had written asking for help, or had included the teeny tiniest bit of humility or self-awareness in any of your posts, the support would have come flooding in. Clearly you have issues communicating and if I were you I'd just give it up already. You lost me with the "sheep" comment in your first post and have been digging the hole deeper with every post. Going forward, probably best not to patronize the people you're asking for help. Not that you were asking for help actually. What were you asking really? I'd be happy to answer any real questions.

[AnneGG 0]

Wow, this is a great thread (except where people get into attacking each other instead of dealing with the issues)! Brings out some basic personality traits, it has!

I kind of liken this surgery game to any kind of sports game- things work much better with rules and good coaches have to go by the basic rules but there is a lot of individuality of styles.

Now, I go by my doctor and what he says pretty much 100% (and I'm a rebel since birth) because a) he is in the top four surgeons in the country in terms of outcome results so he knows a lot more about this game than me. He also is one of the stricter doctors out there.

If I was so accurate about knowing my body, I wouldn't be fat in the first place!

I suggest you ask your doctor about his results and which kinds of qualities ensure those results before flouting the rules, IMnotsoHO.

[~amy~ 1]

My doc was very adamant about the soda thing, but like you, I like to know WHY. I guess after so many negative experiences with doctors, I'm not impressed by medical qualifications on the wall and the "Because I Said So" routine. Lucky for me, I found a doctor who I AM impressed by because he explains things to me instead of using the "because I'm the smart doctor and you are the idiot patient and you must do what I say," routine.

He explained to me the reason for the No Soda rule, and showed me a bottle of coke with a balloon stretched over the mouth of the bottle. Without doing anything at all, the balloon started to fill with gas until it was pretty taunt. Then he shook the bottle (not hard, just like it would be if it were your stomach and you were walking around). The balloon started to stretch really wide, and he said that's exactly what will happen to your stomach pouch if you drink soda. It will cause your band to slip, and you will have to have another surgery to correct it, or remove it all together.

As far as alcohol is concerned, my doc said as long as I budget the calories in my daily allowance and it's not carbonated, I can do what I want. I have found that I am not able to tolerate much at all anymore, and that I get full really quickly. I have to watch myself though, because I don't want to let the alcohol affect my judgement on when it's time to stop b/c I'm full.

I think it's important for you to follow your dr.'s guidelines, but I think it's more important for you to find a doctor that you trust. If you trust him, follow his rules, but ask him to explain things to you. Hope this helps.

[elcee 3,341]

He explained to me the reason for the No Soda rule, and showed me a bottle of coke with a balloon stretched over the mouth of the bottle. Without doing anything at all, the balloon started to fill with gas until it was pretty taunt. Then he shook the bottle (not hard, just like it would be if it were your stomach and you were walking around). The balloon started to stretch really wide, and he said that's exactly what will happen to your stomach pouch if you drink soda. It will cause your band to slip, and you will have to have another surgery to correct it, or remove it all together.

This explanation is flawed. The balloon over the bottle is a closed system.There is nowhere for the gas to go. Your digestive system is not a closed system - it has an opening at both ends. Generally when you have a buildup of gas you either burp or fart!

I am not advocating that you ignore your Dr's instructions and start drinking soda, just pointing out that this explanation is totally illogical. Maybe some people have a problem with burping etc after banding but I think for most of us the opposite is true. I for one am now the burping Queen and that is not from drinking soda!

[~amy~ 1]

This explanation is flawed. The balloon over the bottle is a closed system.There is nowhere for the gas to go. Your digestive system is not a closed system - it has an opening at both ends. Generally when you have a buildup of gas you either burp or fart!

I am not advocating that you ignore your Dr's instructions and start drinking soda, just pointing out that this explanation is totally illogical. Maybe some people have a problem with burping etc after banding but I think for most of us the opposite is true. I for one am now the burping Queen and that is not from drinking soda!

I get what you're saying - and agree with it 100%. I'm not saying it's a scientific explanation, just one that made sense to me. By saying "this is what could happen to your pouch," he bypassed the BS "because I'm smarter than you" bit and went straight to an explanation to help me understand it better.

This makes it easier for me to follow. I am a rule follower by nature, but that doesn't make it easy. I've learned that when I hear an explanation about the necessity of the rule, it's just easier to follow it. I've also learned that doctors are idiots too, and I've fallen out of trust with a lot of them. That's why it's so important to me to find one that takes the time to explain themselves and their reasons.

I personally wasn't offended by any of the OP's comments. It's so difficult to understand the true emotion behind a written comment, and things are often misinterpreted. I hope people try to be more understanding of that...this site is very helpful to me most of the time, but I've found myself logging on less frequently because of the attack-style responses. Makes me nervous to post questions, myself.

[Jachut 487]

I kind of liken this surgery game to any kind of sports game- things work much better with rules and good coaches have to go by the basic rules but there is a lot of individuality of styles.

If I was so accurate about knowing my body, I wouldn't be fat in the first place!

I like this analogy, its very true.

I actually think following rules, not blindly, but being really inflexble about them, makes this just another diet. One that you will fail at sooner or later. I really believe strongly in the lifestyle thing and I do think that unless you learn to listen to your body you are not learning what you need for long term success.

That's so personal though. Its how my brain is wired so I have trouble seeing anything else.

I disagree with the second comment though, I have a lot of medical, nutritional and exercise knowledge, and I knew exactly what I should be doing, I just didnt and couldnt do it without the aid of a band. I certainly wasnt clueless and I certainly didnt and dont need nutritional or exercise advice from my doctor. He doesnt give it anyway, he will refer on to associates if people need it, but his realm of expertise is surgery.

[Marine mom 3]

I like this analogy, its very true.

I actually think following rules, not blindly, but being really inflexble about them, makes this just another diet. One that you will fail at sooner or later. I really believe strongly in the lifestyle thing and I do think that unless you learn to listen to your body you are not learning what you need for long term success.

That's so personal though. Its how my brain is wired so I have trouble seeing anything else.

I disagree with the second comment though, I have a lot of medical, nutritional and exercise knowledge, and I knew exactly what I should be doing, I just didnt and couldnt do it without the aid of a band. I certainly wasnt clueless and I certainly didnt and dont need nutritional or exercise advice from my doctor. He doesnt give it anyway, he will refer on to associates if people need it, but his realm of expertise is surgery.

I agree. We eat healthy, have for years. I just was not willing to take my calories as low as I need to to actually lose weight without the band as a way to combat regaining.

If I followed the diet my doc gave for after surgery, I would not lose. I don't lose at 1200 calories. So I adapt. I have minimal restriction. I just choose to eat well. You can't just stamp out a lifestyle for everyone and expect it to work for everyone. That is silly. We aren't all the same. I was reading the pcos thread and thinking that they really have to adapt. That would suck!

[AnneGG 0]

Good docs and their staffs work with the individual within guidelines.

I know what I should do with my body, but haven't always.

I like having good coaches that hold me accountable.

[Marine mom 3]

ot...anne, I love the quote in your signature. I love richard bach!! I got to meet him about 25 years ago!

[Humming Bird 275]

Some succeed because they are destined to, but most succeed because they are determined to.

[bambam31 168]

Some succeed because they are destined to, but most succeed because they are determined to.

WOW! That's pretty much the whole thread summed up in one sentence. :sigh:

Brad

[Marine mom 3]

it does. Not on "one side" or another "side", however. No one gets there without determining to make changes in their lives, and taking responsibility, either by rule following or personal study, for their choices.

[nursesandy 0]

Goodness, some of the posters on here are certainly touchy. It is amazing how some people can get so wired up over certain things. I am fairly new here and just got banded a couple of weeks ago, but have already seen that some of the posters on this board have a bad attitude. It makes me very nervous to share any of my problems here. I thought this was supposed to be a SUPPORT group, but maybe I was wrong.

To the OP, I did not take offense to anything you said. Written statements can be taken out of context sometimes and I believe that some of yours did by some of the other posters. I did not feel as if you were calling anyone a sheep or anything like that. Maybe some people have some issues that they need to deal with if they feel like stones were being tossed at them. I agree it can be confusing to come on here and see so many different ways of doing things. I am trying to follow the rules, but being an RN myself, with many years of experience, I know that doctors do not know everything. If my doctor ask me to do something that I don't think will benefit me then I will have a conversation with him about that. This has not happened yet, but I am fully aware that I have a long way to go and it may happen eventually. I know it must be discouraging to be totally bashed by so many, but I hope you realize that this is not a reflection on some of the others on this board.

As for those of you that say you didn't like her tone, I believe that a tone is something you hear, not something you read.