How do you feel about "born-agains"?

[Jachut 487]

Well said.

Proverbs offers up, "The devil can quote Scripture for his own ends" and Matthew 4:6 illustrates this.

I bear no ill will towards the PG's of the world; I feel sorry for them but recognize and accept they find a security in their faith and though it is certainly different from mine I understand the need and appreciate their passion. It is, however, so unilateral and inflexible. It is not the only suit a Christian can wear.

The Bible is an enigma, filled with beauty, joy, laughter, wisdom, insight, hope, promise and instruction as well as ambiguity, contradiction, and omission. It is peopled with the righteous, holy, and sincere but equally seasoned with the dysfunctional, confused, and fallen. It is the work of many men though inspired by God; hence it is imperfect in the product but perfect in the process.

Find your own path to God, make your own personal relationship, and be mindful of the holy spirit as it works in others as well as you.

Peace out.

Perfectly said. Were I to really feel the need for any organised religion in my life, this is exactly how I would view it. I treat the PG's of the world just like I treat annoying telephone salesmen becuase I hate being told how and what to think!

[pattygreen 5]

Perfectly said. Were I to really feel the need for any organised religion in my life, this is exactly how I would view it. I treat the PG's of the world just like I treat annoying telephone salesmen becuase I hate being told how and what to think!

I can't say that I have ever told you what or how to think. But if you want to believe that I have, what can I say, except prove it. I don't tell anyone what to think. I don't tell anyone how to think, either.

I do tell others what "God" has revealed to me in his words. That is all.

[J_BandRanger 0]

@ PattyGreen - BRAVO! well spoken!!! ....

[pattygreen 5]

Why do Catholics Pray to Mary

Introduction

I have an Evangelical friend who said "When I go to a doctor I don't want to talk to his mother." That is an interesting analogy. However, this Evangelical talks regularly with his pastor and asks the pastor to pray for him. The pastor doesn't turn him away by saying, "Don't talk to me! Don't ask me to pray for you! Go straight to Jesus!" The pastor has compassion and "intercedes" (stands in the gap) for him. He prays for the congregation and for individuals. He has compassion and wants to assist people in their relationship with Christ. This in no way diminishes Jesus' role as the Lord and Saviour.

Catholics ask Mary to pray to Jesus for us. She is interceding, kind of in the way a pastor might pray for you or me. In the Rosary we ask Mary to "Pray for us sinners." And we think she s quite good at that.

Mary is a "born again" Christian who received the Holy Spirit at the Pentecost and spoke in tongues 2000 years before Pentecostals got the gift.(Acts 1:14, 2:3) She knows how to pray - yes even in tongues!

In the movie "The Passion of the Christ," I was floored when I saw Mary at the foot of the Cross. I would like to have that woman pray for me. I ask her to do just that, pray for me. I also ask her to pray for you. I feel her prayers and I thank her for spending so much time praying for our world.

Does hanging out with Mary defocus us from Jesus?

I got an email that said:

Why then would we want to take the focus off of Jesus and pray through Mary, or any one else for that matter? I also see a lot of the issues surrounding Mary as distractions.

I appreciate concern that attention paid to Mary defocuses from Jesus. It is an interesting choice of words because Mary said the opposite about herself. In the Bible, Mary clearly spells out her role in eternity:

My soul magnifies the Lord,

And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior.

For He has regarded the lowly state of his maidservant;

For behold, henceforth all generations will call me blessed. (Lk 1:46-49)

The Bible says Jesus is magnified by Mary's soul. A soul is not limited by life on earth. Mary reinforces her eternal ministry by saying "all generations will call me blessed." If the Bible intended Mary's ministry to end with the birth of Jesus, or at Jesus' death, or even at Mary's death, I don't think it would use that language.

A magnifying glass increases the object it is focused on, so being in relation to Mary's eternal soul does not draw focus away from Jesus, it does the opposite. It magnifies him. This is the Bible's word to the people of God.

I've heard Evangelical Pastors do sermons on just about every passage of Scripture except this one. I invite you to try to remember a sermon on Luke 1:46-55. The movie "The Nativity" removed words from the Bible that referred to Mary when they flashed the passage on the screen during the final scene. I think it's crazy to remove words about Mary from the Bible to make some Christians feel more comfortable.

Catholics believe Mary's soul still "magnifies the Lord" for Christians of our generation who choose to relate to her. Currently, Catholics are pretty well the only ones upholding the biblical prophesy to call her blessed, which was intended for all generations, and for all Christians. Except for pattygreen's interpretation of the bible. The pick and choose version. Let's leave the part about Mary being called blessed out or if not, we can interpret it differently and then tell people OUR interpretation is the correct one.

I don't understand how Mary announcing that all generations will call her blessed is taken to mean that she was sinless, or more important in God's eyes than any of his other children. Or that we should honor and revere her and even worship her as many Catholics do. The bible teaches "Blessed are the merciful, for they shall see God." And "Blessed are the poor in spirit for the kingdom of God belongs to them". And "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God." Yet, many people are merciful, poor in spirit, and peacemakers, and they are not worshipped or revered or prayed to or sinlesss for that matter. They are blessed,just like Mary. The word 'blessed' simply means happy. So, the world will call Mary Happy. So what.

46And Mary said:

"My soul glorifies the Lord

47and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior,

48for he has been mindful

of the humble state of his servant.

From now on all generations will call me blessed,

49for the Mighty One has done great things for me—

holy is his name.

Every Christians soul glorifies

and magnifies the Lord. Every Christians spirit rejoices in God our Savior. She points out that God was mindful of her and used her to carry his Son. And because of that, all generations will call her blessed (happy). For God did great things for her. I just don't see how these verses about Mary say as much as the Catholic teachers claim they say.

Edited July 16, 2010 by pattygreen

[pattygreen 5]

@ PattyGreen - BRAVO! well spoken!!! ....

Thank you. Join in please!

[Will_B_Healthy 0]

Perfectly said. Were I to really feel the need for any organised religion in my life, this is exactly how I would view it. I treat the PG's of the world just like I treat annoying telephone salesmen becuase I hate being told how and what to think!

:biggrin:Thanks for wading into this shallow pool. Just a handful of sea life including a blowfish in severe denial populate it; a word to the wise: don't take the bait. Free thinking is still allowed including those who practice intolerance and selective belief. There is much to be said for coexistence.

Stay and play or swim away but be mindful of the dangers that lurk within and without.

"Beware the Jabberwock, my son! The jaws that bite, the claws that catch! Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun the frumious Bandersnatch!" L. Carroll

Regards as always,

[pattygreen 5]

Perfectly said. Were I to really feel the need for any organised religion in my life, this is exactly how I would view it. I treat the PG's of the world just like I treat annoying telephone salesmen becuase I hate being told how and what to think!

Who said anything about "organized religion". I hate organized religion. They make men slaves to their doctrines and hold them captive. Even Jesus had much to say about the hypocrisy of the saducees and the pharasies of his day. Christianity, 'real' Christianity, is a relationship with Jesus. Nothing else required. No High and mighty Pope to adhere to, No Priest telling you the way, No Pastor telling you that you are damned if you don't attend church faithfully, etc. Just a simple relationship through praise, worship, bible reading and prayer with your Creator and the His Son, Jesus, whom he sent to deliver you.

Oh, I think it is a good idea to get together on a regular basis with others who believe as you do, because Jesus said to. "Do not forsake the assembling of one another together." He also spoke of the importance of Christian fellowship and praying together as a group and worshipping together. So, church is not a bad thing. Only if you allow it to regulate you.

[pattygreen 5]

:biggrin:Thanks for wading into this shallow pool. Just a handful of sea life including a blowfish in severe denial populate it; a word to the wise: don't take the bait. Free thinking is still allowed including those who practice intolerance and selective belief. There is much to be said for coexistence.

Stay and play or swim away but be mindful of the dangers that lurk within and without.

"Beware the Jabberwock, my son! The jaws that bite, the claws that catch! Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun the frumious Bandersnatch!" L. Carroll

Regards as always,

Just to clear up the record here. I believe in tolerence for those who believe differently than I do. It is very important that all mankind chooses for himself whom he will serve. God desires for everyone to make up their own mind and decision on whether they choose to be a part of His family or not. For who would want a family member that doesn't want anything to do with them? I, too, do not judge anyone for their choices. Live and let live. I would love for all to know Jesus as I do, for there is great joy in knowing Him, but I hold no hatred or intolerence for those who choose to believe differently.

[pattygreen 5]

Well, I'm off for vacation in Maine. I leave at 10 AM. Looking forward to the ocean view! lol. See you all in about 12 days. God bless. Patty

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Just to clear up the record here. I believe in tolerence for those who believe differently than I do. It is very important that all mankind chooses for himself whom he will serve. God desires for everyone to make up their own mind and decision on whether they choose to be a part of His family or not. For who would want a family member that doesn't want anything to do with them? I, too, do not judge anyone for their choices. Live and let live. I would love for all to know Jesus as I do, for there is great joy in knowing Him, but I hold no hatred or intolerence for those who choose to believe differently.

This post does not reconcile with the one in which you told me that I don't "get" anything spiritual and was blind as a bat. Sounds pretty intolerant and judgemental to me.

[123crod 170]

Just to clear up the record here. I believe in tolerence for those who believe differently than I do. It is very important that all mankind chooses for himself whom he will serve. God desires for everyone to make up their own mind and decision on whether they choose to be a part of His family or not. For who would want a family member that doesn't want anything to do with them? I, too, do not judge anyone for their choices. Live and let live. I would love for all to know Jesus as I do, for there is great joy in knowing Him, but I hold no hatred or intolerence for those who choose to believe differently.

Very well said Patty, you seem to have been bless with a lot of patience to handle all this over and over again. My prayers are with you, I know you welcome prayer!!

Cheri

[loserbob 11]

I am not saying that I have it perfectly figured out. All I know is that anyone and everyone that was ever Catholic and THEN read the scriptures has concluded that they were duped by the Catholic church. It is one thing to say that our "interpretations" are different, but that's not it at all. There is only ONE way to interpret certain verses in the bible. "There is only one mediator between man and God, and that is Christ Jesus." Now, tell me another way to interpret that? Does that mean Mary and the Saints can also mediate between God and man? I don't think so. Come on now, let's not play games. It means what it says. There is ONE mediator, Jesus and Him only. Now that one bit of falsehood that the Catholic church gives their congregation could be overlooked if there weren't just soooo many bits of falsehoods that they teach that could be confirmed with scripture. To say I am arrogant because I know the pope to be wrong on that issue is just plain wrong. God gives wisdom to those who desire with their heart and seek to know the truth. I have asked Him for that wisdom, and he has blessed me with the truth of the word of God. Just like He will bless anyone who asks to learn more about Him.

WOW! She's nuckin futs!

[Will_B_Healthy 0]

Just to clear up the record here. I believe in tolerence for those who believe differently than I do. It is very important that all mankind chooses for himself whom he will serve. God desires for everyone to make up their own mind and decision on whether they choose to be a part of His family or not. For who would want a family member that doesn't want anything to do with them? I, too, do not judge anyone for their choices. Live and let live. I would love for all to know Jesus as I do, for there is great joy in knowing Him, but I hold no hatred or intolerence for those who choose to believe differently.

Unlike some of her harsher critics -- who I admit bring a smile to my face and sometimes laughter to my soul, PG is more charicature than she will fess up to ("charicature" is from the Latin caricare, to load, exaggerate). It doesn't take much detective work to review her posts to evidence "intolerance" -- not only on this but most every topic she chooses to suffer the little children.

But this is not to single PG out, to cut her from the herd: We are all made from the same flawed fabric. But it is to point out that PG and her ilk use prose to control or at least in an attempt to control. Rather than to engage in a futile effort to illuminate I join the ranks with those who prefer to refute those offering sweeping generalities like "everyone" or "all" as an anemic support to a flawed supposition -- a common inclusion of PG's posts I might hasten to add.

Too often have we heard others protest it is not about the money only to find out it is all about the money. So when PG claims she is tolerant of others but her actions and prose expose the contrary, a red flag must be raised in protest.

Examine the enclosed quote above.

"God desires for everyone to make up their own mind and decision on whether they choose to be a part of His family or not." Notwithstanding the grammar (agreement error: "everyone" is singular, "their" is plural) and that for clarity and consistency it should be "decide" not "decision", the concept is overtly dogmatic. I am a Christian and I find such a statement offensive if only for its exclusion of so many others who hold as passionately and fervently a differing belief than my own.

Or "For who would want a family member that doesn't want anything to do with them?" Well for starters, any victim of abuse would be counted among the rhetorical "who" therein. How about a family member who has chosen to follow a different path, to find no need for the Hallmark bonds or guilt and anxiety. Or perhaps we could include a family member who over the course of time has never contributed in any capacity to the formulation of a relationship or bond?

I do embrace and understand what PG means when she writes of the "great joy of knowing Him." Perhaps as Christians we should emulate Christ more and learn to give agape love. (see What is agape love?)

Peace out.

[pattygreen 5]

Very well said Patty, you seem to have been bless with a lot of patience to handle all this over and over again. My prayers are with you, I know you welcome prayer!!

Cheri

Thank you, Cheri. Even though others feel that I am full of it when I say that I am tolerant of others beliefs, I know that you truly understand that I am. I know that God allows only ONE way to the Father. Through Jesus Christ. Anyone who plans to get in through some other doorway will be surprised over their lack of getting the key turned. This is unfortunate for them. It is okay to know beyond doubt that your way is THEE way, and still be tolerant of others who havn't figured it out yet.

[loserbob 11]

Thank you, Cheri. Even though others feel that I am full of it when I say that I am tolerant of others beliefs, I know that you truly understand that I am. I know that God allows only ONE way to the Father. Through Jesus Christ. Anyone who plans to get in through some other doorway will be surprised over their lack of getting the key turned. This is unfortunate for them. It is okay to know beyond doubt that your way is THEE way, and still be tolerant of others who havn't figured it out yet.

How dare you disrespect the mother of Jesus! You will rot in hell!