How do you feel about "born-agains"?

[Will_B_Healthy 0]

How does this even answer my question?

Born-agains cherry pick verses out of the bible all the time. Hence the hate and condemnation of homosexuals.

I have strong faith in the Lord. I also know that you or no one else can tell me who or who isn't getting into Heaven. No one on this earth will read and interpret the Bible the same as anyone else. It's impossible.

So, you keep on keepin on, whatever helps you sleep better at night.

Well said.

Proverbs offers up, "The devil can quote Scripture for his own ends" and Matthew 4:6 illustrates this.

I bear no ill will towards the PG's of the world; I feel sorry for them but recognize and accept they find a security in their faith and though it is certainly different from mine I understand the need and appreciate their passion. It is, however, so unilateral and inflexible. It is not the only suit a Christian can wear.

The Bible is an enigma, filled with beauty, joy, laughter, wisdom, insight, hope, promise and instruction as well as ambiguity, contradiction, and omission. It is peopled with the righteous, holy, and sincere but equally seasoned with the dysfunctional, confused, and fallen. It is the work of many men though inspired by God; hence it is imperfect in the product but perfect in the process.

Find your own path to God, make your own personal relationship, and be mindful of the holy spirit as it works in others as well as you.

Peace out.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

I guess that render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's thing doesn't play in Steward's article. Not surprising.

They twist that bible quote to mean something else. I interpret it to mean the government has the right to tax and we are obligated to do so, but Jesus wants what is due to him, too.

The deeper irony lies in the behavior of the Christian Right (who seldom are BTW). As this article illustrates, the CR will attack the government that has protected the diversity of faith to freely practice for over two-hundred years, but should anyone turn this coin over and suggest applying the law of the land equally to all agencies including the taxing houses of faith, the CR cries foul.Not content to be able to practice religion in places of worship and at home and to put religious symbols there, they demand that it be expanded to public places, like schools and government buildings. While they want THEIR religion in our government, they would never allow government into their religion.The semantics of what defines a non-profit and the difference between an income and an allowance ooze to the surface. The CR have a unilateral code allowing them the freedom to criticize but not be criticized.

There are some people who when they offer a critique include a suggestion for improvement. It is not enough to simply find the rats and cockroaches, you need to DO something about getting rid of them or creating a place where the vermin will not invade. That is not the motis operandi of the CR. They may till the soil and spray herbicide but never do they plant a seed let alone nurture it to feed the needy, house the homeless, encourage the downtrodden. The CR often uses scripture to buttress or emphasize their position, but just as often to camouflage.Any bible quote that could be used to justify our government helping the least among us is interpreted by them to mean individuals helping neighbors not the government. But at the same time, any quote like the one about Caesar will be interpreted by them differently than supporting government taxation. They start with a political position (conservative - a/k/a mean spirited) and then interpret the bible to support that. Yet the tipping point is always money for them: they must have it, having it is good, not having it is not, depriving others from having it is acceptable, sharing or redistributing it is unthinkable. They feel entitled to amass it without government intervention or control, suggesting anything to the contrary is socialism.

BTW before the Cold War, there was a strong and growing populist movement of socialists, led by Eugene Debs for one. American socialists were the champions for the labor unions and leaders in legislation to provide both rights and protections for our working class. They empowered the middle class and battled the elite in court, in the street, in the voting booths. The Soviets so corrupted socialism that it remains a pariah in the minds (though ever so narrow) of most Americans.The soviets were communists. A more socialistic government example is Denmark whose people pay 2/3 of their wages in taxes but everything needed in life - pregnancy and child care, education, healthcare and senior care is taken care of. This makes them the happiest people in the world because they don't have to worry about any of this. If we have to pay taxes why not pay for the things we need instead of the things we don't. How many people worry about what will happen to grandma with dementia now that grandad who took care of her died. Will she lose the home if she goes into nursing care? Yes, unless she has enough to pay $7000/month for care. Will she lose all her assets. Yes, eventually. In a country like Denmark they don't look on getting old as a punishment, a time of fear and a time of economic struggles and loss. We do.

The system of taxation which began three thousand years ago is not perfect nor fair but until something better is suggested, it remains one of two constants. Well, make that three: death, taxes, and the Grace of God.

The republicans have done a great job demonizing the word taxes. They really only have two things on their agenda:

1) cuts taxes for the rich (crumbs for everyone else)

2) de-regulate corporations

[Will_B_Healthy 0]

I guess that render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's thing doesn't play in Steward's article. Not surprising.

They twist that bible quote to mean something else. I interpret it to mean the government has the right to tax and we are obligated to do so, but Jesus wants what is due to him, too.

The deeper irony lies in the behavior of the Christian Right (who seldom are BTW). As this article illustrates, the CR will attack the government that has protected the diversity of faith to freely practice for over two-hundred years, but should anyone turn this coin over and suggest applying the law of the land equally to all agencies including the taxing houses of faith, the CR cries foul.Not content to be able to practice religion in places of worship and at home and to put religious symbols there, they demand that it be expanded to public places, like schools and government buildings. While they want THEIR religion in our government, they would never allow government into their religion.The semantics of what defines a non-profit and the difference between an income and an allowance ooze to the surface. The CR have a unilateral code allowing them the freedom to criticize but not be criticized.

There are some people who when they offer a critique include a suggestion for improvement. It is not enough to simply find the rats and cockroaches, you need to DO something about getting rid of them or creating a place where the vermin will not invade. That is not the motis operandi of the CR. They may till the soil and spray herbicide but never do they plant a seed let alone nurture it to feed the needy, house the homeless, encourage the downtrodden. The CR often uses scripture to buttress or emphasize their position, but just as often to camouflage.Any bible quote that could be used to justify our government helping the least among us is interpreted by them to mean individuals helping neighbors not the government. But at the same time, any quote like the one about Caesar will be interpreted by them differently than supporting government taxation. They start with a political position (conservative - a/k/a mean spirited) and then interpret the bible to support that. Yet the tipping point is always money for them: they must have it, having it is good, not having it is not, depriving others from having it is acceptable, sharing or redistributing it is unthinkable. They feel entitled to amass it without government intervention or control, suggesting anything to the contrary is socialism.

BTW before the Cold War, there was a strong and growing populist movement of socialists, led by Eugene Debs for one. American socialists were the champions for the labor unions and leaders in legislation to provide both rights and protections for our working class. They empowered the middle class and battled the elite in court, in the street, in the voting booths. The Soviets so corrupted socialism that it remains a pariah in the minds (though ever so narrow) of most Americans.The soviets were communists. A more socialistic government example is Denmark whose people pay 2/3 of their wages in taxes but everything needed in life - pregnancy and child care, education, healthcare and senior care is taken care of. This makes them the happiest people in the world because they don't have to worry about any of this. If we have to pay taxes why not pay for the things we need instead of the things we don't. How many people worry about what will happen to grandma with dementia now that grandad who took care of her died. Will she lose the home if she goes into nursing care? Yes, unless she has enough to pay $7000/month for care. Will she lose all her assets. Yes, eventually. In a country like Denmark they don't look on getting old as a punishment, a time of fear and a time of economic struggles and loss. We do.

The system of taxation which began three thousand years ago is not perfect nor fair but until something better is suggested, it remains one of two constants. Well, make that three: death, taxes, and the Grace of God.

The republicans have done a great job demonizing the word taxes. They really only have two things on their agenda:

1) cuts taxes for the rich (crumbs for everyone else)

2) de-regulate corporations

Amen!

If at all possible, could you consider using another color like green rather than red. I corrected compositions for thirteen+ years and I made a point of avoiding the red marker except when I needed to attract the bull! Otherwise nothing but praise for your retort.

[lauragshsu 6]

Let me state first and foremost that I am a Christian.

This is my problem with a lot of Christians, and not just born agains. Sundays they get all fancied up, go to church, pray, sing, tithe and go home, patting themselves on the back about what fabulous Christ-like people they are. Yet, if someone were to come in dirty, dressed raggedly, these same "christ-like" people would turn up their nose at them, or give them dirty looks. It's sad that so many Christians feel this way about anyone who is not exactly like them.

Save for times like Christmas and Thanksgiving, how many of these "christ-like" people do you see going to homeless shelters, Soup kitchens, etc? How many of them go into the homes of the poor, the broken and hurting? Instead, they cross the street to avoid them, not wanting to make eye contact for fear of that person talking to them.

Am I saying I am a perfect Christian? Not even close, not even a little. I'm just sick of Christians professing to live a Christ-like life, and in reality really do very little if anything Christ like.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Amen!

If at all possible, could you consider using another color like green rather than red. I corrected compositions for thirteen+ years and I made a point of avoiding the red marker except when I needed to attract the bull! Otherwise nothing but praise for your retort.

Thanks.

Red has become my signature color on here. LOL. Some right wingers have called me on it. But I hear what you're saying. I will use green on the posts I think you'll be reading. Or maybe blue.

[lauragshsu 6]

Thanks.

Red has become my signature color on here. LOL. Some right wingers have called me on it. But I hear what you're saying. I will use green on the posts I think you'll be reading. Or maybe blue.

What could anyone possibly say about the color red that has anything to do with politics?? (then again, I shouldn't be surprised to hear what some people get offended by)

[Will_B_Healthy 0]

Let me state first and foremost that I am a Christian.

This is my problem with a lot of Christians, and not just born agains. Sundays they get all fancied up, go to church, pray, sing, tithe and go home, patting themselves on the back about what fabulous Christ-like people they are. Yet, if someone were to come in dirty, dressed raggedly, these same "christ-like" people would turn up their nose at them, or give them dirty looks. It's sad that so many Christians feel this way about anyone who is not exactly like them.

Save for times like Christmas and Thanksgiving, how many of these "christ-like" people do you see going to homeless shelters, Soup kitchens, etc? How many of them go into the homes of the poor, the broken and hurting? Instead, they cross the street to avoid them, not wanting to make eye contact for fear of that person talking to them.

Am I saying I am a perfect Christian? Not even close, not even a little. I'm just sick of Christians professing to live a Christ-like life, and in reality really do very little if anything Christ like.

That is why Gandhi said what he did about Christians: I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.

I am a work in progress. Six years ago I got the opportunity to serve the hungry through a mission called Hot Meals. I have missed two servings since - medical conditions. I chair our mission committee and work as a recruiter for Family Promise, a nationwide organization with a focus for providing assistance to homeless families. This is not to suggest I am any better or worse but simply blessed that I can do this and that there are thousands of others like me doing the same daily. We might be as "invisible" as the guests we serve, but most know when you serve those less fortunate than others you are serving God.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

What could anyone possibly say about the color red that has anything to do with politics?? (then again, I shouldn't be surprised to hear what some people get offended by)

One of the young right wingers made reference to my red color and another one about my cut and pastes. It just shows me that they have nothing of substance to rebut what I say so they have to attack me personally. I consider it a victory.

[pattygreen 5]

No way am I reading some long, conservative, bible-based bashing of our government. Our government is based on the constitution, not the bible. We pay taxes as part of our responsibility to contribute to our country and citizenship.

If you don't want to pay taxes, go live somewhere else, but quit trying to justify your claim that paying taxes is stealing. The only stealing that is being done is by corporate america and the rich who are laughing as they line their pockets on the backs of the middle class whose ignorant members do their bidding for them.

If that's the way you feel about reading my posts, then you can find someone else to banter with. These conversations are not one sided. I find the time to read all of your posts, but if you feel that you are the only one worthy of having your posts read, then good-bye.

[pattygreen 5]

How does this even answer my question?

What was it?

Born-agains cherry pick verses out of the bible all the time. Hence the hate and condemnation of homosexuals.

Born agains don't "hate" homosexuals. They just hate their sin. We don't condemn them either. Only God can do that. He alone knows every mans heart.

I have strong faith in the Lord.

This is good.

I also know that you or no one else can tell me who or who isn't getting into Heaven.

I wouldn't dare. Nor have I ever told you ar anyone else whether they would go to hell or to heaven. That is not my place.

No one on this earth will read and interpret the Bible the same as anyone else. It's impossible.

I disagree with that.

So, you keep on keepin on, whatever helps you sleep better at night.

......................

[pattygreen 5]

I guess that render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's thing doesn't play in Steward's article. Not surprising.

The deeper irony lies in the behavior of the Christian Right (who seldom are BTW).

Funny you should say this. Today I was talking to God about the differences between the left and rights views on things. We talked about how those on the right tend to be Christians and have views that line up more with the word of God. I was reading out of Ecclesiastes Chapter 10 at the time. He showed me a verse that got me to really laugh. Verses 2 and 3. "The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left. Even as he walks along the road, the fool lacks sense and shows everyone how stupid he is." Don't tell me God doesn't have a sense of humor!(lol)

As this article illustrates, the CR will attack the government that has protected the diversity of faith to freely practice for over two-hundred years, but should anyone turn this coin over and suggest applying the law of the land equally to all agencies including the taxing houses of faith, the CR cries foul. The semantics of what defines a non-profit and the difference between an income and an allowance ooze to the surface. The CR have a unilateral code allowing them the freedom to criticize but not be criticized.

There are some people who when they offer a critique include a suggestion for improvement. It is not enough to simply find the rats and cockroaches, you need to DO something about getting rid of them or creating a place where the vermin will not invade. That is not the motis operandi of the CR. They may till the soil and spray herbicide but never do they plant a seed let alone nurture it to feed the needy, house the homeless, encourage the downtrodden.

How do you figure this lie? Christians have done more to help the poor, hungry, needy and the homeless than any other group ever!

The CR often uses scripture to buttress or emphasize their position, but just as often to camouflage. Yet the tipping point is always money for them: they must have it, having it is good, not having it is not, depriving others from having it is acceptable, sharing or redistributing it is unthinkable. They feel entitled to amass it without government intervention or control, suggesting anything to the contrary is socialism.

Where do you get this? Back it up with some facts, cause while there may be those in every group who make the group look bad, Christians are very giving and for the most part not filled with greed for material things.

BTW before the Cold War, there was a strong and growing populist movement of socialists, led by Eugene Debs for one. American socialists were the champions for the labor unions and leaders in legislation to provide both rights and protections for our working class. They empowered the middle class and battled the elite in court, in the street, in the voting booths. The Soviets so corrupted socialism that it remains a pariah in the minds (though ever so narrow) of most Americans.

The system of taxation which began three thousand years ago is not perfect nor fair but until something better is suggested, it remains one of two constants. Well, make that three: death, taxes, and the Grace of God.

How about the fair tax. That sounds better than what we have.

[pattygreen 5]

Let me state first and foremost that I am a Christian.

This is my problem with a lot of Christians, and not just born agains. Sundays they get all fancied up, go to church, pray, sing, tithe and go home, patting themselves on the back about what fabulous Christ-like people they are. Yet, if someone were to come in dirty, dressed raggedly, these same "christ-like" people would turn up their nose at them, or give them dirty looks. It's sad that so many Christians feel this way about anyone who is not exactly like them.

Save for times like Christmas and Thanksgiving, how many of these "christ-like" people do you see going to homeless shelters, Soup kitchens, etc? How many of them go into the homes of the poor, the broken and hurting? Instead, they cross the street to avoid them, not wanting to make eye contact for fear of that person talking to them.

Am I saying I am a perfect Christian? Not even close, not even a little. I'm just sick of Christians professing to live a Christ-like life, and in reality really do very little if anything Christ like.

You are hanging with the wrong Christians. All of them that I know are not like that at all. First of all, how do you know they are"patting themselves on the back" after they leave church? You couldn't possibly.

Also, most of the people who volunteer at homeless shelters and nursing homes, etc. are Christians. Christians that I know, and I know many of them, are very loving, caring and giving people, who do alot for their communities and those in need. I was a foster parent for about 20 years and found that the majority of homes were Christian couples who wanted to help children.

[pattygreen 5]

That is why Gandhi said what he did about Christians: I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.

I am a work in progress. Six years ago I got the opportunity to serve the hungry through a mission called Hot Meals. I have missed two servings since - medical conditions. I chair our mission committee and work as a recruiter for Family Promise, a nationwide organization with a focus for providing assistance to homeless families. This is not to suggest I am any better or worse but simply blessed that I can do this and that there are thousands of others like me doing the same daily. We might be as "invisible" as the guests we serve, but most know when you serve those less fortunate than others you are serving God.

:puke:

You are blessed to be able to help out the community in that way. I like how you understand that it is God that you serve.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

If that's the way you feel about reading my posts, then you can find someone else to banter with. These conversations are not one sided. I find the time to read all of your posts, but if you feel that you are the only one worthy of having your posts read, then good-bye.

I couldn't care less if you read my posts or not. I can only hope that it's really bye from you but you've said that many times before only to come back again and again and againnnnnn.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

How about the fair tax. That sounds better than what we have.

That's right. Let the rich finally pay their fair share so that the middle class doesn't have to shoulder their (rich's) burden. The rich have been getting richer and the middle class poorer.