How do you feel about "born-agains"?

[Cleo's Mom 257]

I am not perfect. I make mistakes like everyone else. But, there are some things that are just tooo clear in scripture to be mistaken for meaning anything else but what it says.

Here's just ONE example.

Catholics pray to Mary and to 'Saints'. In the scripture, saints are believers in Jesus who have died. There are many scriptures that teach that you should not pray to the dead.

Catholics believe that Mary, like others who have died and gone to heaven, has eternal life. Therefore to refer to her as "dead" would be wrong in the view of the Catholic Church. She is no more "dead" than the risen Jesus is "dead" because he died an earthly death. She rose into heaven during what is referred to as the Assumption. She was the first person chosen by God, a lowly woman, without sin. Man had nothing to do with Jesus's birth. So the church has saved a special place for Mary, as did God. And when people pray to Mary and saints it is because they know they have a special relationship with Jesus and will intercede on their behalf. I am only explaining the views of the church.

I am sure the pope and the billions of Catholics worldwide aren't worried about your incorrect interpretations of the bible.

[loserbob 11]

First off im Methodist , not that it matters on a LAP-BAND® site. I did attend a Born again church for over 3 years and loved it. I do not think religious background is too important on a LAP-BAND® site . Are you simply looking to bash people? what is the end goal? aren't we here to lose weight and be supportive of one another? why does being born again make a difference in weight loss?

Yes, bash, yes, because! Again, you still had to come here to read, even though your unhappy with the topic! Howard Stern said he makes enemies because they're more prone to listen to him.

[loserbob 11]

Yes, bash, yes, because! Again, you still had to come here to read, even though your unhappy with the topic! Howard Stern said he makes enemies because they're more prone to listen to him.

And, my god told me Id lose more weight and faster because I pray to Mary, even though shes dead, what the f, ah never mind!

[pattygreen 5]

I am not perfect. I make mistakes like everyone else. But, there are some things that are just tooo clear in scripture to be mistaken for meaning anything else but what it says.

Here's just ONE example.

Catholics pray to Mary and to 'Saints'. In the scripture, saints are believers in Jesus who have died. There are many scriptures that teach that you should not pray to the dead.

Catholics believe that Mary, like others who have died and gone to heaven, has eternal life. Therefore to refer to her as "dead" would be wrong in the view of the Catholic Church. She is no more "dead" than the risen Jesus is "dead" because he died an earthly death.

All who have died are dead to us who remain. My mom died, and therefore, to me she is a dead person. I understand that spiritually we live after we die, but when we are refering to people who have died in this life, we call them dead. Mary died and therefore she is a dead person. Saints', or believers in Jesus, have died and therefore we refer to them as dead people. ALL people who have died are 'dead'. When God says "do NOT consult the dead", who is He talking about? People who have died. Period. There is no misunderstanding that.

She rose into heaven during what is referred to as the Assumption.

There is no such word, assumption, in the bible. The Catholic people made that up.

She was the first person chosen by God, a lowly woman, without sin.

Mary sinned just like everyone else on this planet. She was chosen by God to carry his Son and bring him into the world, but that was the extent of her mission. After she gave birth to the Christ she was not mentioned again in the scripture except once, a story about when Jesus was a young child, she lost him. (Luke chapter 2)

“My soul doth magnify the Lord, and my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior” (Luke 1:47). This is something that Mary herself declared when she was pregnant with Jesus. A person without sin is not in need of a savior. Therefore, Mary, herself declares that she had a savior. If she was sinnless, why did she declare to have her own personal savior? Savior from what?

Man had nothing to do with Jesus's birth. So the church has saved a special place for Mary, as did God. And when people pray to Mary and saints it is because they know they have a special relationship with Jesus and will intercede on their behalf.

"There is one God and ONE mediator between God and man, CHRIST JESUS." (1 Timothy 2:5) I don't care what the Catholic church teaches. I believe the word of God and His word alone. There is only ONE mediator that we can pray to who is our advocate to the Father and that is Jesus. To teach otherwise is to call God a liar.

I am only explaining the views of the church.

I am sure the pope and the billions of Catholics worldwide aren't worried about your incorrect interpretations of the bible.

Well, the churches view is wrong. My interpretations are correct. Anyone in the world can read that scripture and know the truth. "There is ONE mediator". How much plainer and simpler can God say it for you? Yet, people will argue till they are blue in the face to defend what they have been taught by that denomination. I don't get it. Why would anyone want to talk to a dead person when they can go straight to God himself through his son, Jesus anyway?

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Well, the churches view is wrong. My interpretations are correct. Anyone in the world can read that scripture and know the truth. "There is ONE mediator". How much plainer and simpler can God say it for you? Yet, people will argue till they are blue in the face to defend what they have been taught by that denomination. I don't get it. Why would anyone want to talk to a dead person when they can go straight to God himself through his son, Jesus anyway?

Wow! Talk about arrogant. The pope is wrong and you are correct. Someone call the presses.

There is earthly death and there is eternal life. Those are two different things. Eternal life is not just spiritual life, it is life in heaven reunited with God and our loved ones.

And God would never have allowed his son to be in the womb of a sinner. Mary was conceived without sin as she was prepared to be the bearer of Jesus. Maybe Mary wasn't mentioned more in the bible because the scared, MALE disciples ran off when Jesus was condemned and crucified, except for John, who helped Mary take the body down. Who do you think prepared the body in the tomb? Have you not seen the pieta? Religious paintings and sculpture reflect the bible.

Why would anyone want to talk to a dead person? Because once they die and go to heaven they are no longer dead. They live eternal life. The word life is used. Not eternal spiritual life. Eternal life.

Get off your spiritual high horse. You are not an expert. Your interpretation of the bible is just that - yours. Others can interpret for themselves, just as you have been brainwashed to think. Someone told you how to interpret the bible and you believed them.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Why do Catholics Pray to Mary

Introduction

I have an Evangelical friend who said "When I go to a doctor I don't want to talk to his mother." That is an interesting analogy. However, this Evangelical talks regularly with his pastor and asks the pastor to pray for him. The pastor doesn't turn him away by saying, "Don't talk to me! Don't ask me to pray for you! Go straight to Jesus!" The pastor has compassion and "intercedes" (stands in the gap) for him. He prays for the congregation and for individuals. He has compassion and wants to assist people in their relationship with Christ. This in no way diminishes Jesus' role as the Lord and Saviour.

Catholics ask Mary to pray to Jesus for us. She is interceding, kind of in the way a pastor might pray for you or me. In the Rosary we ask Mary to "Pray for us sinners." And we think she s quite good at that.

Mary is a "born again" Christian who received the Holy Spirit at the Pentecost and spoke in tongues 2000 years before Pentecostals got the gift.(Acts 1:14, 2:3) She knows how to pray - yes even in tongues!

In the movie "The Passion of the Christ," I was floored when I saw Mary at the foot of the Cross. I would like to have that woman pray for me. I ask her to do just that, pray for me. I also ask her to pray for you. I feel her prayers and I thank her for spending so much time praying for our world.

Does hanging out with Mary defocus us from Jesus?

I got an email that said:

Why then would we want to take the focus off of Jesus and pray through Mary, or any one else for that matter? I also see a lot of the issues surrounding Mary as distractions.

I appreciate concern that attention paid to Mary defocuses from Jesus. It is an interesting choice of words because Mary said the opposite about herself. In the Bible, Mary clearly spells out her role in eternity:

My soul magnifies the Lord,

And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior.

For He has regarded the lowly state of his maidservant;

For behold, henceforth all generations will call me blessed. (Lk 1:46-49)

The Bible says Jesus is magnified by Mary's soul. A soul is not limited by life on earth. Mary reinforces her eternal ministry by saying "all generations will call me blessed." If the Bible intended Mary's ministry to end with the birth of Jesus, or at Jesus' death, or even at Mary's death, I don't think it would use that language.

A magnifying glass increases the object it is focused on, so being in relation to Mary's eternal soul does not draw focus away from Jesus, it does the opposite. It magnifies him. This is the Bible's word to the people of God.

I've heard Evangelical Pastors do sermons on just about every passage of Scripture except this one. I invite you to try to remember a sermon on Luke 1:46-55. The movie "The Nativity" removed words from the Bible that referred to Mary when they flashed the passage on the screen during the final scene. I think it's crazy to remove words about Mary from the Bible to make some Christians feel more comfortable.

Catholics believe Mary's soul still "magnifies the Lord" for Christians of our generation who choose to relate to her. Currently, Catholics are pretty well the only ones upholding the biblical prophesy to call her blessed, which was intended for all generations, and for all Christians. Except for pattygreen's interpretation of the bible. The pick and choose version. Let's leave the part about Mary being called blessed out or if not, we can interpret it differently and then tell people OUR interpretation is the correct one.

[Will_B_Healthy 0]

I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ. - Ghandi

Are the Christians in this silly blog practicing the tenets of Christ or parroting denominational dogma? Perhaps more time spent with the New Testament rather than the Old will encourage us all to grow past the vengeful, spiteful, childish God that matures and nurtures having given His only son who suffered at the hands of His chosen people.

Nothing and no one is served when no one listens or opens up his/her heart and mind. The Creator gave you that mind as well as a soul; serve Him by using it.

Edited July 11, 2010 by Will_B_Healthy
Grammar

[pattygreen 5]

Wow! Talk about arrogant. The pope is wrong and you are correct. Someone call the presses.

Yes. The Pope's view is biblically wrong. If he believes the bible to be God's truths to man, then he must admit that God has spoken and said that there is ONLY ONE mediator between man and God and that mediator is Jesus Christ. He must admit that the bible teaches that you are NOT to pray or talk to the dead. He must also admit that Mary was not a virgin all her life. Jesus had brothers and sisters through the union of Mary and her husband Joseph. He will not admit that he is wrong because then his whole denomination would crumble. The Catholic clergy has hidden the scriptures from their congregants for many, many years and now that the bible has been made a household book for all mankind, they have been losing their people to other denominations little by little.

There is earthly death and there is eternal life. Those are two different things. Eternal life is not just spiritual life, it is life in heaven reunited with God and our loved ones.

And God would never have allowed his son to be in the womb of a sinner.

Yet God allows himself (the Holy Spirit) to live within the life of every believer, who are all sinners? Mary was a sinner just like the rest of us humans. She admitted herself that she needed a savior. From her very own lips!

Mary was conceived without sin as she was prepared to be the bearer of Jesus.

Please give me a biblical reference for this. No where in the bible does it teach that Mary was born sinless. That honor belongs to Jesus and Him alone.

Maybe Mary wasn't mentioned more in the bible because the scared, MALE disciples ran off when Jesus was condemned and crucified, except for John, who helped Mary take the body down.

Actually, it was a man named Joseph of Arimathaea who took Jesus' body off the cross.

Who do you think prepared the body in the tomb?

As soon as Jesus was dead, Joseph went quickly to Pilate, persuaded him to give him the body, took it to the nearby tomb he had had cut in a rock, wrapped it in a sheet and rolled the stone in front of the opening. The women, who dearly loved Jesus, saw what he did and went home to prepare the spices for a proper burial. Shortly after they left, Nicodemus came and prepared the body according to the Jewish burial custom. Thursday, Friday, and Saturday passed, and early Sunday the women (both Marys) returned to the tomb, only to find the empty tomb—Jesus had risen from the dead. So, Joseph and Nicodemus both prepared the body of Jesus.

Have you not seen the pieta? Religious paintings and sculpture reflect the bible.

Why would anyone want to talk to a dead person? Because once they die and go to heaven they are no longer dead.

All who die are left in a sleep state until the resurrection day when Jesus returns to this earth at the end of the age. The believers are in this sleep state in the presence of God in Heaven and unbelievers are in this sleep state in a holding place called hades. At the resurrection, all are awakened and judged. One to eternal life in Heaven and the other to damnation in Hell. So, they can't hear a word your saying to them anyway. This is why God tells us not to consult the dead, and he tells us that the only way to talk to the Father is through the ONE and ONLY mediator that he gave us, who is Jesus Christ.

They live eternal life. The word life is used. Not eternal spiritual life. Eternal life.

Get off your spiritual high horse.

I believe that YOU are the one who needs to study the word of God a bit more. I have it correct. It says They will have or they shall have eternal life. After the resurection of the believers from their sleep.

You are not an expert.

Actually, I am. I have studied the bible almost my whole life. I have gone to bible college and earned my degree in bible.

Your interpretation of the bible is just that - yours. Others can interpret for themselves, just as you have been brainwashed to think. Someone told you how to interpret the bible and you believed them.

......................

[pattygreen 5]

I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ. - Ghandi

Are the Christians in this silly blog practicing the tenets of Christ or parroting denominational dogma? Perhaps more time spent with the New Testament rather than the Old will encourage us all to grow past the vengeful, spiteful, childish God that matures and nurtures having given His only son who suffered at the hands of His chosen people.

Nothing and no one is served when no one listens or opens up his/her heart and mind. The Creator gave you that mind as well as a soul; serve Him by using it.

What are you talking about?

[elcee 3,341]

The same could be asked of you Patty.

There is such a load of airy fairy claptrap on this thread it's unbelievable.

I think the point about Born Again Christians has been proven - many times over. They are incredibly annoying.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

You are not an expert.

Actually, I am. I have studied the bible almost my whole life. I have gone to bible college and earned my degree in bible.

You're the expert and the pope's wrong? Far more people believe him than you. Just because you studied something doesn't mean your interpretation is the correct one. There are those who believe what you believe and they also believe Adam and Eve rode dinosaurs. That doesn't make them right.

The bible is open to interpretations and that is why there are so many religious denominations. I know you don't believe in organized religions but your bible studies were just that. Organized brainwashing that it was the one and only interpretation. It is not nor will it ever be. I will interpret the bible my way. Not your way or anyone else's way.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

All who die are left in a sleep state until the resurrection day when Jesus returns to this earth at the end of the age.

And where does soul sleep appear in the bible?

[Will_B_Healthy 0]

What are you talking about?

I was writing, actually, not talking but my real beef with you is not semantic. I could be cutting and even cruel, pointing out that for an expert in the "bible (sic)" as you profess, you fail to capitalize the most revered Christian tome, the Holy Bible. But the shortcomings of your "bible college" and "degree in bible (sic)" are evidenced with greater frequency in the intolerance of your postings rather than in the petty and pedantic.

Born-agains has evolved as a convenient label used by bigots. In ever increasing numbers, Americans have vacated Christian houses of worship for secular alternatives and "born-agains" have morphed to the pejorative.

I pray that you and others of your ilk will eventually come to understand and embrace the concept of being ecumenical Christians:

- Recognize the faithfulness of other people who have other names for the way to God's realm, and acknowledge that their ways are true for them, as our ways are true for us;

-Invite all people to participate in an open and affirming faith community and worship life without insisting that they become like us in order to be acceptable (including but not limited to): believers and agnostics, conventional Christians and questioning sceptics, women and men, those of all sexual orientations and gender identities, those of all races and cultures, those of all classes and abilities, those who hope for a better world and those who have lost hope;

- Find more grace in the search for understanding than we do in the dogmatic certainty --more value in the questioning than in the absolutes;

- Form ourselves into communities dedicated to equipping one another for the work we feel called to do: striving for peace and justice among all people, protecting and restoring the integrity of all God's creations, and bringing hope to those Jesus called the least of his sisters and brothers.

As ever,

[pattygreen 5]

The same could be asked of you Patty.

There is such a load of airy fairy claptrap on this thread it's unbelievable.

I think the point about Born Again Christians has been proven - many times over. They are incredibly annoying.

Then what are you doing here?

[pattygreen 5]

I was writing, actually, not talking, but my real beef with you is not semantic. I could be cutting and even cruel, pointing out that for an expert in the "bible (sic)" as you profess, you fail to capitalize the most revered Christian tome, the Holy Bible. But the shortcomings of your "bible college" and "degree in bible (sic)" are evidenced with greater frequency in the intolerance of your postings rather than in the petty and pedantic.

This is the rant and rave section of the lapband talk thread. Here we discuss disagreements on different topics. That's what we do. So, to say that in my personal life, I am not "tolerant" of others beliefs is just wrong. I certainly am. I fully understand that others believe differently and that is just fine with me. Live and let live. But, even though I could care less what others believe, I also KNOW that Jesus said "I am the way and the truth and the life, and NO man comes to the Father but through Me!"

So, If my "intollerence" for any other way to get to Heaven bothers you, then talk to God. He made the rule, not me.

Born-agains has (have)evolved as a convenient label used by bigots.

'Born again' is scriptural. Jesus said ,"I tell you the truth, You MUST be born again." It is a great 'label' for 'true' Christians. It tells the world that they are not just those Christians who attend a church for show and fake it. They are truly changed by the Holy Spirit. They have been born Spiritually, and until one is, they will not know that they never were. This is why when a person is really born agin spiritually, they have no problewm being labeled "born again".

In ever increasing numbers, Americans have vacated Christian houses of worship for secular alternatives and "born-agains" have morphed to the pejorative.

A house of Worship is a good thing, for to get together with others to worship God is wonderful. But, Jesus lives within the true believer and is all that's really needed.

I pray that you and others of your ilk will eventually come to understand and embrace the concept of being ecumenical Christians:

I promote universal Christianity. There are born again believers in every Christian denomination, and I am their sister in Christ.

- Recognize the faithfulness of other people who have other names for the way to God's realm, and acknowledge that their ways are true for them, as our ways are true for us;

The only way to God is through Jesus. If they believe that, then they have the truth.

-Invite all people to participate in an open and affirming faith community and worship life without insisting that they become like us in order to be acceptable (including but not limited to): believers and agnostics, conventional Christians and questioning sceptics, women and men, those of all sexual orientations and gender identities, those of all races and cultures, those of all classes and abilities, those who hope for a better world and those who have lost hope;

- Find more grace in the search for understanding than we do in the dogmatic certainty --more value in the questioning than in the absolutes;

- Form ourselves into communities dedicated to equipping one another for the work we feel called to do: striving for peace and justice among all people, protecting and restoring the integrity of all God's creations, and bringing hope to those Jesus called the least of his sisters and brothers.

These last 3 points I agree with you on.

As ever,

.......................