calorie counters/ starvation

[jqpublic 1]

Starvation

I have been looking this up. It's hard to find information on starvation that isn't given relating to eating disorders, and I want more than just that one branch of opinion.

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One article on POWs in Japan said they were on a "near-starvation diet of 700 calories per day". Most sources will agree that this is most definitely within actual starvation range.

A diet article said that "to avoid triggering the starvation-adaptation response, you should consume at least 1,200 Calories per day if you’re a woman and 1,600 Calories if you’re a man." I think, though, that they were more concerned with the metabolism's slowing-down response than actual starvation.

And I found a technical, encyclopaedic definition that seems pretty thorough:

Starvation is classified into three categories based on caloric intake over time (Frisancho, 1981):

1. Acute - less than 600 calories/day for less than two weeks.

2. Semiacute starvation - less than 1100 calories/day for less than 30 days. 3. Moderate semistarvation - less than 1600 calories/day for as long as 24 weeks.

Initial consequences of starvation are apathy, muscle weakness, and reduction of activity. Body weight loss is progressive. The body first extracts energy from carbohydrate stored in the liver and glycogen in muscles. Then the body burns fat to get needed energy for about two weeks. After that point both fat and Protein are used. After 24 weeks there is a loss of physical work performance. Individuals with a daily diet intake of less than 2,000 calories per day have impaired physical work capacity.

Many sources agree that starvation causes some pretty typical behavior changes. Interestingly enough these new behaviors are the same as those usually found in eating-disordered people... a fixation on the body, an obsession with meal-planning and cooking, the tendency to hoard food or pictures of food, other compulsive-type ritualized patterns. I'm curious. How many of those traits do eating-disordered people start with, and how many show up on their own as a result of our food habits? A lot of doctors attribute our disorders to those traits, not the traits to the disorder, and therefore tend not to consider the possibility.

And the article about the Minnesota starvation study has finally reared its pretty head. I'm so frickin' happy! I love this baby. It explains so many of those odd little quirks that plague me from time to time, and I think it's fascinating to see how starvation can turn almost anyone into an ED, at least for a while. I wonder if that's really how a lot of EDs begin. People with the tendencies start to diet, then their bodies kick into gear and yank them down. So it's not just a matter of willpower or self-control or "not letting a diet get out of hand" if some of us really can't mess with that without going nuts, is it? Go here to read the parts pertaining to the study, and here to find the whole thing (load the page, then click "psychoeducational").

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• untitled2.html
  
• An Endocrinologist Talks About Consequences of Starvation
  
• Problems Caused By Being Underweight
  
• IB Holocaust Project: Starvation, Cold, and Disease
  
• Levi - food, calories
  Primo Levi. Concentration camp survivor and author. Very interesting.
  
• Effects of Combining Low-Carb with Starvation
  
• Anorexics Sentenced to Death
  An article about how the USA's health-care system is failing anorexics.
  
• Practice: Case Examples, Practice Essentials and Frequently Asked Questions
  
• Digestive Reading 5
  
• A Policy of Deliberate Starvation
  Details on the food situation in concentration camps.
  
• The Air Commodore Birchall on Leadership
  Not specifically about starvation, but worth reading. He kicks ass. Story of his experiences in a POW camp.
  
• THE MERCK MANUAL, Sec. 1, Ch. 2, Malnutrition
  
• Toothpaste Used Up the Rest of my Calories!
  A "normal guy's" response to a diet.
  

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This was found on a site called fat like me! I hope every one out there is losing weight and doing it right,way. If you are going to count calories please do it with an open mind weight loss is good but not at the cost of starvation!

I,am guilt of living around 1200 caolries daily and lower but at what cost long term? please read! I hope it made you think "that" all.

http://jaoii.lunarpages.com/starve.html

[Anwyn 0]

Wow - what a comprehensive post. Thanks for taking the time to research this for us!

[the best me 6]

Oh my gosh!!! You are missing it if you didn't hit the link to the study (the first blue "here" above the menu of links...mid-page)

Unbelievable what these test-cases went through and did! Worth the read...check it out.

Thank John! Great research!

[donali 57]

This information is so fascinating. It points even more to the fact that there is SO MUCH that we do not know or understand about eating, food, calories, hunger and satiety.

The reason I say that is because people who have WLS who have a sense of satiety on a significantly reduced number of calories are generally freed from the feeling (and hence the psychological detriments) of "starvation".

After banding, and once settled into my routine, I did NOT constantly think about food for about the first time in my life. I was not constanty hungry, I did not go through the normal phases I had previously experienced with "dieting".

I know that in general I did not drop my caloric intake to such low levels, although I didn't really keep track. But during my liquid and mushy phase I know my calories were in the starvation range, but I felt fine. This was a six week period.

To add to my personal experience in this regard, my sister had the RnY, and those patients are severely restricted in calories - not only in capacity, but also pysically, since the caloric malabsorption portion of the surgery is active for about two years in most people, and she also did not exhibit the normal symptoms of starvation - good energy level, health, etc.

I'm beginning to think that the feeling of satiety must release its own chemical, or something, that prevents some of these negative psychological effects.

I wonder if physically we experience the same side-effects of low caloric intake - i.e. lowered BMR, reduced muscle mass, etc. I think the answer is probably "yes".

I know that I, for one, though, exhibit the "hording" phenomenon mentioned in the Minnesota starvation study. The buying of unnecessary items, the reluctance of throwing away items that are unneeded or worthless, the constant thought "I may need that someday"...

VERY very interesting.... Now I have to go and try and remember when my true hording nature first made its appearance....

Thanks, John!

[NJChick 3]

Great thread John.

It says that starvation begins under 1200 calories but I'm wondering if that is on a person who is of normal weight.

Since I am overweight I believe my body lives off its own reserves (fat / for a while that is) making it different for me meaning I wouldn't be in starvation mode, lets say under the 1200 calories.

Is there any information on starvation mode on some one who is considered obese?

[Guest carmentorres]

hi

i am new to this so as i said to someone else i am nervous about the surgery, i have my consult later today, but know nothing at all about this surgery except that it aids in weightloss, but i have read alot about starvation on here and other sites.does this actually starve you to lose weight?i feel really dumb asking these questions, but to me the only dumb question, is one not asked.

[HarleyNana 10]

Quite interesting, though, I've never really thought about it that intensely, it was very enlightening.

[the best me 6]

hi

i am new to this so as i said to someone else i am nervous about the surgery, i have my consult later today, but know nothing at all about this surgery except that it aids in weightloss, but i have read alot about starvation on here and other sites.does this actually starve you to lose weight?i feel really dumb asking these questions, but to me the only dumb question, is one not asked.

That's the thing about banding, you are not supposed to starve. But during the healing phase, it can be really difficult to get enough calories in on the liquid diet. But that's temporary, and after healing, getting in 1200 calories can take work, but it can be done while eating healthily. Banded can make it very easy to get way less calories than you need if you aren't careful, which is why the starvation convesations happen.

You are right, no question is ever dumb, so you are right to speak up. What I like about my band is that it makes it possible for me to follow a good diet, yes, DIET, well balanced and moderate, with success and without misery. I still have to choose well and take care what goes in my mouth. So, no, I'm not starving.

Did that answer your question?