Do you believe in a god or gods?

[pattygreen 5]

Who created God then?

This one's easy - Man. Whether it be God, Gods or whatever they were created by man to fulfil a certain need. The same way that the Bible was written by man. Every culture has had a book or tales that it uses to explain creation, record some of its history and possibly contain a code for living as well. The Bible is simply the Christian's version of this.

What is interesting is that you will find the themes are common across many religions whether they be Christian, pre Christian or something else, most have a story of a Virgin birth, a resurrection etc.

And by the same token many Christian festivals/holidays/traditions predate Christianity but have been adopted and adapted by Christians to suit their needs.e.g Easter.

While it is true that many believers in Jesus have used already instated celebrations and changed them to reflect their beliefs, it does not mean that God doesn't exist, or that man created 'God".

IMO, it would have been better if the beginning Christians had set up new holidays for those who came to believe in God. Like his birthday and his resurrection. But to me, since noone knows the exact date for these occasions, it doesn't matter when I Celebrate them. Since most Celebrate Jesus' birth on Dec. 25th, then I will too. Same with Easter. I celebrate these days, but not as most do with bunnies and santa.

[BJean 16]

Some of you may misunderstand my post:

Many of you have an enormous need for your interpretation of the Bible. For it fills you with the answers and the reasons for everything and even better, it fills you with the knowledge that all the things that you have done that you shouldn't have done, are forgiven by someone far greater and more powerful than yourself. Forgiven by our creator. That's powerful stuff!

I am not finding fault with you or your beliefs. I know how much the Bible and God mean to you. I have certainly felt those things and have had those very same needs with the same answer being: Jesus as the way, the truth and the light.

But, and I know you are not comfortable with this, there is a higher learning to be had. It doesn't mean that you must exclude or deny God. It means that you open yourself up to more possibilities and answers. It is more wonderful than any thing I could have imagined and it provides more answers and gives me more strength than I thought possible.

I have lived through extreme highs and the very lowest of lows. Before I expanded my spirituality, I was unable to cope with the extreme lows because the pain was beyond belief. Now I can deal with anything that life brings... and more!

Right now the primitiveness of the Bible and the things that were learned in church are enough and provide all the answers you need. And perhaps you will never need anything beyond that. Many people can feel content without seeking to learn more.

But it was not enough for me and I am so thankful that I didn't just accept the few teachings and lessons of the Bible as the final answer to living a blessed life.

Again, I am certainly not being critical. I am simply suggesting that you keep your heart and mind open for answers to questions you haven't even dreamed of yet. And don't accept the Bible as the final word. There is more.

[pattygreen 5]

tell us about it then.

[BJean 16]

If you are honest and open, you'll discover it for yourself. There is plenty of evidence and information available to you. But I have no desire to bully you into seeing something that your mind is closed to. And right now, your mind is definitely closed to anything but what you are currently comfortable with - and the thing that has become so very important to you.

Nor am I am trying to play "I've got a secret." I'm only hoping that you will stop being so close-minded and boxed into such rigid thinking that you dismiss the things that can open your mind to a higher level of consciousness, thus allowing you to become a better person for all eternity.

[BJean 16]

elcee you are definitely on the right track!

[pattygreen 5]

If you are honest and open, you'll discover it for yourself. There is plenty of evidence and information available to you. But I have no desire to bully you into seeing something that your mind is closed to. And right now, your mind is definitely closed to anything but what you are currently comfortable with - and the thing that has become so very important to you.

Nor am I am trying to play "I've got a secret." I'm only hoping that you will stop being so close-minded and boxed into such rigid thinking that you dismiss the things that can open your mind to a higher level of consciousness, thus allowing you to become a better person for all eternity.

So, you're an elitist. You are above the rest of us in spirituality. How nice for you. Anyone who has discovered something so wonderfully spiritual and has no desire to share the experience with others so that they may obtain it (or even deny it if they wish), really has nothing at all. Because those who have something want to share it. It's human nature.

P.S. Only God can open a persons mind to a higher level of awareness. (consciousness) We get this gift from Him when he deems we are ready for it. It's called knowledge and wisdom. Every single thing that we have, from our posessions to our thankfulness to our wisdom comes from His grace and mercy that he pours out on those who believe in him. We can not even love others without God first putting that desire to love within us.

[serenity55 15]

That is, of course, assuming that you BELIEVE in God! They don't call it the straight and harrow for nothing!

As I said earlier, I'd much rather choose my own destiny than wait and hope that something I don't even believe in, decides that I do or don't need something. There is no proof, in my mind, that God even exists. Again, as I said earlier, it's all based on faith. Not enough for me.

Debbie

[Devana 0]

Anyone who has discovered something so wonderfully spiritual and has no desire to share the experience with others so that they may obtain it (or even deny it if they wish), really has nothing at all. Because those who have something want to share it. It's human nature.

Really Patty? Who says? You?

One of the beautiful things about the evolution of consciousness is that people seem to see things less as absolutes.

I heard an analogy once: We're all sitting in a theatre watching the stage. People in the front row are totally unaware of what's behind them. The people at the back row see the whole thing. As we grow in spirit or consciousness it's like we keep moving back and seeing more of the whole. At some point on our journey we become aware that there are rows behind us that we haven't reached yet. Yet some people in the front will insist that this is all there is.

[BJean 16]

patty: "Only God can open a persons mind to a higher level of awareness. (consciousness) We get this gift from Him when he deems we are ready for it. It's called knowledge and wisdom. Every single thing that we have, from our posessions to our thankfulness to our wisdom comes from His grace and mercy that he pours out on those who believe in him. We can not even love others without God first putting that desire to love within us."

You go on to say: "Anyone who has discovered something so wonderfully spiritual and has no desire to share the experience with others so that they may obtain it (or even deny it if they wish), really has nothing at all.

And you call ME an elitist?

"We get this gift from Him when he deems we are ready for it. It's called knowledge and wisdom."

Obviously He has not deemed that you are ready.

Edited February 24, 2010 by BJean

[BJean 16]

A perfect analogy Devana.

[Devana 0]

P.S. Only God can open a persons mind to a higher level of awareness. (consciousness) We get this gift from Him when he deems we are ready for it. It's called knowledge and wisdom. Every single thing that we have, from our posessions to our thankfulness to our wisdom comes from His grace and mercy that he pours out on those who believe in him. We can not even love others without God first putting that desire to love within us.

I am partially with you on this. However, I see myself as having a spark of the divine within, I certainly don't see "God" as the big father external to me. Therefore, I don't need a "gift" from "him". It is in my nature and my right as a human to achieve a higher level of consciousness or increased awareness of the "god" within. And it certainly doesn't depend on whether or not I "believe" in a Christian sense.

Now this is just me. My Christian friends despair of me and pray for me to "see the light" which, of course means to come around to their view of things. I think it's quite alright for them to believe the way they do. I have no investment in having them come around to my way of belief. However, this is not the case with them. They are "right" and on the true path and I am "misguided". Like I said before, absolutes.

[Devana 0]

A perfect analogy Devana.

Thanks, BJean, that one always made sense to me.

[pattygreen 5]

I heard an analogy once: We're all sitting in a theatre watching the stage. People in the front row are totally unaware of what's behind them. The people at the back row see the whole thing. As we grow in spirit or consciousness it's like we keep moving back and seeing more of the whole. At some point on our journey we become aware that there are rows behind us that we haven't reached yet. Yet some people in the front will insist that this is all there is.

To be "born again" as God refers to it in the bible must then be likened to having a back row seat.

[BJean 16]

Devana, I have a lot of connections with people who think that their beliefs about God and the Bible are the only way to believe or be spiritual. I have extremely devoted Baptist missionaries in my family. I have very strong Catholics on the other side. And everything in between with the rest of my family and my friends. And I have lived through and believed those same things.

If those who believe strictly in Christian dogma were more happy, more generous of spirit or more content in their personal lives, perhaps that would be an indication that they are indeed the ones who have the answer.

To tell you the truth, I think that it has a lot to do with our hardwiring. It seems that where we are in our state of evolvement in this world determines whether we are open to true spirituality within or whether we need the Bible or others, like patty, to tell us what to believe and to confirm whether we are good or bad people.

It is a pleasure to come in contact with someone who understands some of these things and your goodness is very apparent.

[sam c 0]

Devana, I have a lot of connections with people who think that their beliefs about God and the Bible are the only way to believe or be spiritual. I have extremely devoted Baptist missionaries in my family. I have very strong Catholics on the other side. And everything in between with the rest of my family and my friends. And I have lived through and believed those same things.

If those who believe strictly in Christian dogma were more happy, more generous of spirit or more content in their personal lives, perhaps that would be an indication that they are indeed the ones who have the answer.

To tell you the truth, I think that it has a lot to do with our hardwiring. It seems that where we are in our state of evolvement in this world determines whether we are open to true spirituality within or whether we need the Bible or others, like patty, to tell us what to believe and to confirm whether we are good or bad people.

It is a pleasure to come in contact with someone who understands some of these things and your goodness is very apparent.

I see a problem here. You are claiming people, like patty, are telling us what to believe to confirm whether we are good or bad people. Is it different or ok for you to tell us what not to believe? You claim these people are close minded to what out there or your beliefs. Aren't you being close minded to theirs?

I don't mean to offend and I'm sorry if do. I see people, like patty, sharing what they believe, sharing what they have learned from the bible (their interpatation) and their experiences. They are not forcing it me. I make my own choices. I have my own voice. They are not judging whether we are good are bad. Seems to me that others, like you, may be closed minded to the possibility that people, like patty, might be right.