Conservative VS Liberal

[bambam31 168]

... :thumbup:

This thread frightens me...

[pattygreen 5]

Originally Posted by pattygreen

This is just like a liberal. Expecting the government to ensure your retirement or make a plan for you. MY plan is to work hard and put a fair percentage of my funds away to SAVE for my retirement. Yes, SAVE. That dirty word. "You mean we have to prepare for our retirement ourselves?"

We have invested in multi family rental property so that when we are at retirement age we can collect rents and upkeep the apartments and get paid for renting them out.Let's hope your tenants don't leave without paying rent. With the economy the way it is, depending on other people to pay you is risky.

They have been paying me rent for the last 30 years, so I don't expect people to stop renting from others any time soon.

We have a savings account.Your savings account is insured by the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT for $250,000 per account.

And?.... So what. I didn't ask them to secure it. It came with the account. It's MY savings and if the bank collapses, I'll use the money under my mattress.

We have a 401K.So do a lot of people and they tanked and lost about 50% of their value due to the reckless wall street behavior which was due to de-regulations by bush.

Like I said, I didn't put all my eggs in one basket. If one option goes bellyt up, I have other options to rely on.

My husband has invested in stocks.Again, same thing as 401k's. We have an insurance plan.Well, you have to die to get that one. My husband has a pension plan.A pension plan from work? I think you called it a perk when teachers got it.

It's a perk for teachers because the tax payer (you and me) have to pay it for them. My husbands pension comes from HIS OWN paycheck.

We may even get some of the Social security we are forced to pay in, but we're not counting on it. In other words, we didn't put all our eggs into one basket, and we PLANNED. We are not depending on the government to provide for us. This is the problem with liberals. They feel the need for dependency upon the government for everythiing they should be doing for themselves as grown, mature adults!

All of those things that you planned could go up in smoke in a minute. Your husband's pension plan could be lost if where he works goes out of business or files for bankruptcy. The insurance company (like AIG) could have sold you a policy that they don't have money to back up (they actually did this). The 401k and stocks could (and did) tank. You could find yourself with no renters due to the economy. The only think guaranteed is your savings in the bank and that's because it's guaranteed by the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

I don't live in fear of what "might' happen. If everything failed, I'd still trust in God to keep me. I'd campout in a tent in my back yard and grow my own vegetables and be a happy clam.:thumbup: I do the best I can to plan for my retirement and I don't DEPEND on anyone else to make it for me, like you liberals feel the need to do. Dependent slugs!

So, quit being so smug. Just like a neocon. Your plans could fall apart like so many american's.

My plans could fall apart, you're right. But at least I could say they were my plans, and not the governments.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

My plans could fall apart, you're right. But at least I could say they were my plans, and not the governments.

Teachers pay into their pension/retirement funds with their money too. You have such a superior attitude over other people, their plights, their professions, and how you live your life. You think you are so independent - you don't need or want any government help. That is such an immature position and very far from the truth.

What the government has done for americans touches your life everyday from the moment you wake up and turn on a light, to driving on the highway, to taking your meds, drinking your Water, eating your food and the place you work.

You are seriously delusional when you smugly suggest you are so independent.

And why would paying into social security and a retirement plan make "liberals" dependent slugs? Let's see how far the "privatizing social security" plan the republicans toss out every so often gets this election year. Who supports that? Not the american people. I guess they're all liberal dependent slugs!! LOL

Edited June 6, 2010 by Cleo's Mom

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Disregard what I asked earlier about what you do, as I just saw this.

I have seen people disrespect those in "lowly" positions. I have seen people mock the military members (not the politicians, the war, the president, etc, the military itself). I don't get respect. For whatever reason, people don't consider elementary education (including third grade, the age I teach) to be important, but to be "babysitting". No one seems to respect the police, and seem to think they're all dirty or crooked.

Do I want my picture on a cup? Hell yeah I do, but not for teaching- I just want a cup with my face on it. What I want is for the government (note I didn't say anything about either party, the president, or anything offensive) to stop voting themselves in raises, for special pet projects (on BOTH sides) to receive millions while schools can barely afford crayons (last year I had to buy my own for my class).

And don't even get me started on the "other people have to work to pay you" shit. We all work in one way or another to pay everyone else. We buy stuff, eat at restaraunts, pay mortgages/rent, etc. Every dollar that is spent is going to pay someone else.

If Teachers Were Paid Like Babysitters…

by Lisa on March 21st, 2008

We came recently came across a blog by a soon-to-be first-year teacher who was making the point that, despite complaints to the contrary, teachers are NOT overpaid. (Not sure who he’s been talking to, since we rarely hear that claim!)Obviously not talking to pattygreen and her ilk. Nonetheless, here’s what he says he would make if teachers were paid like babysitters.

He starts by saying that all of this will be based on the average babysitter rate of $5/hour.

Note: The national average for babysitting is actually $10-12/hour for college-age babysitters. Check out our Rate Calculator to get a much more specific idea about what babysitters in your neighborhood are actually making.

Teacher wage per hour: $5 per hour for each student.

Average number of students per class: 22.

Average number of hours per day a teacher works: 7 hours.

Average number of days per year a teacher works: 180

The blogger continues…

22 students at $5 per hour = $110 per hour.

$110 per hour multiplied 7 hours a day = $770 per day.

$770 per day multiplied 180 days a year = $138,600.

He also argues that on top of this, most teachers put in an extra “three to four hours a day preparing, assessing, tutoring and participating in extracurricular events to ensure the success of their students.” Based on that, plus the fact that the average rate of babysitters is around $10/hour, his calculator should actually be well more than doubled… in the high $300,000s.

How’s THAT for a starting salary?

[BJean 16]

Much more comiserate with the responsibility they have.

But I also believe that a $300,000 wage for teachers would cause indirect benefits. (And not just for elementary school teachers, although we'll use them as an example here.)

First, the requirements for teachers would become more stringent. When I went to college and was trying to decide on a major, the easiest (by a long shot) degree to get was in elementary education. Now I'm not disparaging anyone, especially these days, for getting a degree in elementary ed, but the facts at that time were that fewer difficult courses were required to become an elementary school teacher than for any other degree including physical education. And the starting salaries for elementary school teachers reflected that.

Second, respect for those teaching positions would go from low to very high. And yes, due in part to the value we place on a person's ability to command a high salary. But that respect would be due in large part to the increased requirements for obtaining a degree in education that we could demand with a much higher pay scale.

Third, the competition for these high paying jobs would increase drastically and the caliber of candidates would go up as a consequence.

Fourth, there would probably be more parents who would become involved because of the respect they would have for these higher qualilfied, higher paid teachers. And there would probably be fewer people who home school their children for the same reason.

Fifth, and most importantly, the children would be better educated and safer because of the higher caliber teachers and the stricter screening processes that would probably be in place.

We are short changing our children. We could do education in this country so much better if we were smarter about it. Better educated children means smarter adults. Smarter adults would result in better problem solving, more creative thinking when it comes to business and government and an all around better country would be created for all of us.

Right now we seem to be getting dumber by the minute. If we don't solve some of the problems we have facing us in this country, including how lobbyists create our legislation, we are going to continue on this downhill slide until we will have a heckofa time ever getting our strength back.

Education is the most basic thing for people. If we can't get that right, it's not surprising that everything else will eventually go to hell in a handbasket.

[lauragshsu 6]

Much more comiserate with the responsibility they have.

But I also believe that a $300,000 wage for teachers would cause indirect benefits. (And not just for elementary school teachers, although we'll use them as an example here.)

First, the requirements for teachers would become more stringent. When I went to college and was trying to decide on a major, the easiest (by a long shot) degree to get was in elementary education. Now I'm not disparaging anyone, especially these days, for getting a degree in elementary ed, but the facts at that time were that fewer difficult courses were required to become an elementary school teacher than for any other degree including physical education. And the starting salaries for elementary school teachers reflected that.

Second, respect for those teaching positions would go from low to very high. And yes, due in part to the value we place on a person's ability to command a high salary. But that respect would be due in large part to the increased requirements for obtaining a degree in education that we could demand with a much higher pay scale.

Third, the competition for these high paying jobs would increase drastically and the caliber of candidates would go up as a consequence.

Fourth, there would probably be more parents who would become involved because of the respect they would have for these higher qualilfied, higher paid teachers. And there would probably be fewer people who home school their children for the same reason.

Fifth, and most importantly, the children would be better educated and safer because of the higher caliber teachers and the stricter screening processes that would probably be in place.

We are short changing our children. We could do education in this country so much better if we were smarter about it. Better educated children means smarter adults. Smarter adults would result in better problem solving, more creative thinking when it comes to business and government and an all around better country would be created for all of us.

Right now we seem to be getting dumber by the minute. If we don't solve some of the problems we have facing us in this country, including how lobbyists create our legislation, we are going to continue on this downhill slide until we will have a heckofa time ever getting our strength back.

Education is the most basic thing for people. If we can't get that right, it's not surprising that everything else will eventually go to hell in a handbasket.

I think the part I highlighted is one of the most crucial parts to success in education. A school could have the best materials, up-to-date technology and fabulous teachers, but if parents aren't involved in their childs education in any form, it won't matter. No, I don't think every parent needs to spend X amount of hours volunteering in the classroom. However, showing interest in what's happening in their child's education (be it volunteering, helping with homework, discussing a books the child is reading, helping them study for a test, etc) a parent puts forth the message that education is important.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

More hypocrisy from the extremists on the right:

Womb watch

Katha Pollitt in The Nation notes that Kentucky GOP Senate candidate Rand Paul is quite the libertarian except when it comes to abortion rights:

"Women can forget about the 'privacy' and 'liberty' Paul touts on his website; Warnings against government encroachment on freedom do not apply to female citizens of Paul's back-to-basics Republic. As per his website, we get the Human Life amendment banning all abortion even for rape and incest, 'a Sanctity of Life Amendment, establishing the principle that life begins at conception,' a funding ban on Planned Parenthood and a ban on the Supreme Court taking up abortion-related cases.

"As with many of Paul's statements and positions, you wonder if he's thought about them for more than two minutes. How, after all, is a ban on abortion to be implemented except by a massive government intrusion into private and personal behavior? To say nothing of monitoring thousands of medical practices, clinics, hospitals and pharmacies -- apparently the only businesses Paul would want to put under government oversight."

Rand Paul wants to amend the 14th amendment. He wants to dictate what cases the supreme court takes. This is VERY DANGEROUS thinking and should be rejected by all those who say they care about our constitution.

But if we're going to be changing amendments to the constitution and the teabaggers, libertarians, anti-immigration, and neocons are all for it, then I propose we start with the second to limit gun ownership to law enforcement and the military. I think I just heard Charleton Heston rolling over in his grave. LOL.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

I think the part I highlighted is one of the most crucial parts to success in education. A school could have the best materials, up-to-date technology and fabulous teachers, but if parents aren't involved in their childs education in any form, it won't matter. No, I don't think every parent needs to spend X amount of hours volunteering in the classroom. However, showing interest in what's happening in their child's education (be it volunteering, helping with homework, discussing a books the child is reading, helping them study for a test, etc) a parent puts forth the message that education is important.

A lot of parents drop their kids off in kindergarten and pick them up 13 years later at graduation. Those that do become "involved" are often those who complain about the teacher and/or defend their child from any criticism (behavior or academic).

Teachers should be held accountable for teaching and children should be held accountable for learning and there are parents that support this, but sadly, in my experience they are in the minority. They don't support homework, they don't support consequences for misbehavior, they think their child does no wrong.

I can go into a store and by seeing parents interact with their children tell you in which families the kids run the show. The parent asking the whining child which treat he wants... not this one? No, whines the child...how about this one? No, I want that one.. the whining child says. This is not a parent that will support the teacher or education. Parents are afraid of their kids and administrators are afraid of the parents.

I found this to be a huge problem in my teaching experience.

[pattygreen 5]

What exactly is it that you do to make $15 an hour?

I'm a CNA in a nursing home.

[pattygreen 5]

Teachers pay into their pension/retirement funds with their money too.

Yeah, the money that the rest of us gave them to do their job.

You have such a superior attitude over other people, their plights, their professions, and how you live your life. You think you are so independent - you don't need or want any government help. That is such an immature position and very far from the truth.

No it isn't. Why do you find it so hard to believe that there are people out there who actually desire to fend for themselves? When you do it yourself and work hard to get ahead, there comes a sence of pride, a sense of wellness. There is a big difference in the way a person feels about their car when they worked and saved to pay for it themselves over when they received it as a gift from mom and dad. There is a sense of accomplishment and joy when you are independent. And this comes from being independent of the government as well.

[pattygreen 5]

If Teachers Were Paid Like Babysitters…

by Lisa on March 21st, 2008

We came recently came across a blog by a soon-to-be first-year teacher who was making the point that, despite complaints to the contrary, teachers are NOT overpaid. (Not sure who he’s been talking to, since we rarely hear that claim!)Obviously not talking to pattygreen and her ilk. Nonetheless, here’s what he says he would make if teachers were paid like babysitters.

He starts by saying that all of this will be based on the average babysitter rate of $5/hour.

Note: The national average for babysitting is actually $10-12/hour for college-age babysitters. Check out our Rate Calculator to get a much more specific idea about what babysitters in your neighborhood are actually making.

Teacher wage per hour: $5 per hour for each student.

Average number of students per class: 22.

Average number of hours per day a teacher works: 7 hours.

Average number of days per year a teacher works: 180

The blogger continues…

22 students at $5 per hour = $110 per hour.

$110 per hour multiplied 7 hours a day = $770 per day.

$770 per day multiplied 180 days a year = $138,600.

He also argues that on top of this, most teachers put in an extra “three to four hours a day preparing, assessing, tutoring and participating in extracurricular events to ensure the success of their students.” Based on that, plus the fact that the average rate of babysitters is around $10/hour, his calculator should actually be well more than doubled… in the high $300,000s.

How’s THAT for a starting salary?

How ridiculus!!!! I have 30 patients that I care for on my wing at the convelescent home. Should I multiply my hourly wage by 30?

[pattygreen 5]

A lot of parents drop their kids off in kindergarten and pick them up 13 years later at graduation. Those that do become "involved" are often those who complain about the teacher and/or defend their child from any criticism (behavior or academic).

Teachers should be held accountable for teaching and children should be held accountable for learning and there are parents that support this, but sadly, in my experience they are in the minority. They don't support homework, they don't support consequences for misbehavior, they think their child does no wrong.

I can go into a store and by seeing parents interact with their children tell you in which families the kids run the show. The parent asking the whining child which treat he wants... not this one? No, whines the child...how about this one? No, I want that one.. the whining child says. This is not a parent that will support the teacher or education. Parents are afraid of their kids and administrators are afraid of the parents.

I found this to be a huge problem in my teaching experience.

2 points of yours that I underlined above I'd like to address. The first being about parents not supporting homework. I always felt that children are taken from their parents home for 7-8 hours 5 days a week by the governments demand and then when they get home, and can spend time with their families, the school wants them to do MORE school work. I always hated homework. What the heck are they doing in school, that they can't get it all done in 7-8 hours. I homeschooled my kids from grade 5 or 8 through highschool, and it took only 2 hours, sometimes 3 at the most to finish all their subjects. They all graduated with high honors and are doing great in college. So, their education was not lacking. If teachers can't get the kids to do their work in the time they are there, too bad for them. When my kids got home from school, that was now OUR time.

The other point was how parents are afraid of their kids. Well, that's the liberals doing. If parents were allowed by law to discipline their children in the way that was best for them, there wouldn't be that threat of your kid calling the police on them for it. I am all for spanking children (and then hugging them and talking about it) as a form of discipline when they are under the age of approx. 6 or 7, depending on the child. All of my children were given spankings (not BEATINGS) when they were small as a form of discipline. If they stole something from the store, and I found out later, they would receive a spanking for it. Then we would talk to them about the wrongs of taking things that don't belong to them. We would also tell them that our love was unconditional. Then restitution came in. They would be required to apologize to the store owner and return the item, or work at home to earn the money to repay the store if the item was eaten already. As they got older, spanking faded away and loss of priviledges worked better. If I see a child in a store whining, it really irritates me that the mom doesn't remove the child from the store, go home and spank him. Then tell him that if he expected to have the priviledge of shopping with her, that whining would not be an option. If every time he whined in a store, she did that, she could end her miserable shopping trips. What's wrong with parents these days? they let their kids rule them.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

2 points of yours that I underlined above I'd like to address. The first being about parents not supporting homework. I always felt that children are taken from their parents home for 7-8 hours 5 days a week by the governments demand and then when they get home, and can spend time with their families, the school wants them to do MORE school work. I always hated homework. What the heck are they doing in school, that they can't get it all done in 7-8 hours. I homeschooled my kids from grade 5 or 8 through highschool, and it took only 2 hours, sometimes 3 at the most to finish all their subjects. They all graduated with high honors and are doing great in college. So, their education was not lacking. If teachers can't get the kids to do their work in the time they are there, too bad for them. When my kids got home from school, that was now OUR time.

Education does not just take place between 9:00 AM and 3:00 PM. There needs to be some reinforcement at home. Kids forget so quickly. Plus it gives the parents (the ones who are interested) a chance to see what the child is doing. There were not enough hours in the school day for me to cover everything. The children needed time at home to learn spelling words or practice new reading words. Or research for a report or a science project, etc.. And the list goes on but I would be wasting my time telling a know it all like you.

The other point was how parents are afraid of their kids. Well, that's the liberals doing. If parents were allowed by law to discipline their children in the way that was best for them, there wouldn't be that threat of your kid calling the police on them for it.Trust a born again conservative to confuse discipline with corporal punishment (spanking). There is a recent study that shows spanking kids causes aggression when they get to be about 5-6. A good disciplinarian doesn't need to resort to physical punishment for it to be effective. I am all for spanking children (and then hugging them and talking about it) as a form of discipline when they are under the age of approx. 6 or 7, depending on the child. All of my children were given spankings (not BEATINGS) when they were small as a form of discipline. If they stole something from the store, and I found out later, they would receive a spanking for it. Then we would talk to them about the wrongs of taking things that don't belong to them. We would also tell them that our love was unconditional. Then restitution came in. They would be required to apologize to the store owner and return the item, or work at home to earn the money to repay the store if the item was eaten already. As they got older, spanking faded away and loss of priviledges worked better. If I see a child in a store whining, it really irritates me that the mom doesn't remove the child from the store, go home and spank him. Then tell him that if he expected to have the priviledge of shopping with her, that whining would not be an option. If every time he whined in a store, she did that, she could end her miserable shopping trips. What's wrong with parents these days? they let their kids rule them.

It seems like your solution to every discipline problem is spanking. Very sad.

Edited June 6, 2010 by Cleo's Mom

[Cleo's Mom 257]

How ridiculus!!!! I have 30 patients that I care for on my wing at the convelescent home. Should I multiply my hourly wage by 30?

Are the 30 patients under your constant visual supervision for your entire shift?

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Teachers pay into their pension/retirement funds with their money too.

Yeah, the money that the rest of us gave them to do their job.

You have such a superior attitude over other people, their plights, their professions, and how you live your life. You think you are so independent - you don't need or want any government help. That is such an immature position and very far from the truth.

No it isn't. Why do you find it so hard to believe that there are people out there who actually desire to fend for themselves? When you do it yourself and work hard to get ahead, there comes a sence of pride, a sense of wellness. There is a big difference in the way a person feels about their car when they worked and saved to pay for it themselves over when they received it as a gift from mom and dad. There is a sense of accomplishment and joy when you are independent. And this comes from being independent of the government as well.

You are NOT independent from the government. It touches your life in every way every day. If it didn't you'd be living in a cave, but in a symbolic way you already are.