Conservative VS Liberal

[pattygreen 5]

Many teachers, especially elementary, spend a lot of their own money on classroom supplies that the school doesn't supply.

It's not required. I give my kids a quality education on almost no money at all. I spend less than 200. every year on curriculum. We have a library in town and computers with every bit of information available. Learning is not infringed due to lack of supplies.

So the teachers in your state want a raise and you are angry. Why don't you ever direct your anger at the CEO's and their big bonuses?

Because the CEO's or BP don't have much to do with teacher's demanding a raise . I can't be angry at them for the unions and teacher's greed.

Because you don't think you are paying for their bonuses. Think again. We all are. Anyone who has money in a bank is paying for it. There's no getting around it.

But no, pattygreen, you say you're against CEO bonuses or corporate welfare but all your yapping is about the poor single mom or the teachers or some other group just trying to get by.

Why aren't you screaming about the CEO of BP who "just wants his life back". Oh, that's right, you're too busy implicating the environmentalist in the oil spill.

You do enough yapping about them. I don't need to. That's already something we agree upon, so what's to argue about?

I just want everyone on this board to know that I am working very hard to keep the people who pattygreen would support

from getting elected. That's what we all need to do.

And The rest of the country will be keeping your backwards minded liberal friends out of there as well!

Edited June 4, 2010 by pattygreen

[pattygreen 5]

PG quotes,

The government is the only one that can stop this nasty trend of "MORE PEOPLE LIVING OFF THE GOVERNMENT THAN PAYING FOR IT"

-More people are on government help because they are unemployed now more than ever.

No. More people are working in government jobs than before. That little decrease from 10% unemploment to 9.7% is due to the TEMPORARY, and I stress temporary, government census jobs they are paying $19.50 an hour for the people to do. That's more money an hour than an LPN who had to go to school for a year and a half! Talk about waste and senselessness!

-People will get off government help when more jobs come back and the economy gets better.

-Rethuglicans act like they don't understand this fact.

-This reality is because of Rethuglican policy.

It is starting to reverse itself under Democratic policies. But this will take time, so I don't begrude people who need governmental help until the economy under democrats policy gets better.

Jealousy from the other side is palatable. We are making moves, making things happen, don't hate the democrates cause we are doing what you wish your party did or didn't. Al least we are doing something. Unlike the party of NO.

Yeah, right!:thumbup:Your SPENDING!!!!!!!

[Cleo's Mom 257]

And The rest of the country will be keeping your backwards minded liberal friends out of there as well!

You work or worked in a nursing home. Do you think you should have worked for half pay because you cared so much about the patients?

And I'm still waiting for the math that shows private sector employees work twice as many days as teachers. I hope I don't have to wait as long as I did for you to name your source for your erroneous health care costs.

Edited June 4, 2010 by Cleo's Mom

[Cleo's Mom 257]

And The rest of the country will be keeping your backwards minded liberal friends out of there as well!

Anything good that has happened for the middle class in this country has come about because of (liberal) democrats. I have asked for anyone to name one program that has helped the middle class that has come from the republicans.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Originally Posted by pattygreen

I'll just ignore your nasty comments at the end.

Teachers don't need to make more. They work 180 school days a year and get the summers off if they choose.Students go 180 days. Teachers work about 190-192 days which includes in-service and professional days.

Wow, I was off 12 days. My bad! (rolling eyes)

They work half the amount of days as the regular employee. The average employee works 240-245 days depending on the number of holidays they get and includes a two week vacation. How is that twice as many days as teachers? SHOW ME THE MATH.

(Wow! Technical, aren't you?) They work less then the average employee was my point.

It has nothing to do with being technical it has to do with you lying to make a point. Just like the deathers did.

They Get awesome benefits and perks and retirement packages as well as pensions. They have negotiated retirement, sick leave and personal leave. Unlike those in the private sector, they do not get paid vacations or holidays. So I am not sure what perks you refer to.

It depends on the school district for whom you work.

Most all get paid for the Christmas break, fall break, spring break and other holidays during the school year.

No, they don't. They get paid for just the days they work. Prove otherwise.

Most (but by no means all) school districts spread out the pay they earn over 10 months over all 12 months, so that they get the same paycheck all 12 months of the school year.

They have their salary that they earned spread out over 12 months. So what? They just make less each pay than they would if they had their pays given only for the 10 months. Big deal. Geez.

10 Days Sick leave is paid each year.

They earn sick days, just like private sector. Most unused sick days accumulate. You might get paid for unused ones when you retire.

They get quality health insurance, full dental and

long term disability.

So do people in the private sector. And again, they negotiated for these things. Administrators negotiate their contracts, why shouldn't the teachers?

They went to school just as long as the next guy and paid for thier tuitions just as much as the next guy. They get paid PLENTY! The NERVE of them complaining because they couldn't get their raise this year, as if they are more worthy than any other American who had to forgo their raise due to the economy! BULL! Who do they think they are?! Just because there isn't enough money for a raise they have the audacity to say the people don't "care" about the children. :thumbup: MY Butt! It's them that don't care about the children! If they cared, they'd do it for half of what they get.Well, using that logic - then all those workers who care for others from teachers, nurses, police officers, fire fighters, nursing home workers, child care workers should all do it for half of what they get if they "really cared". As I recall, pattygreen, you work in a nursing home. Do you think you should do it for half your salary because you care about the patients? Oh, wait, I know. You deserve YOUR salary because you don't make as much as teachers. Right? What a hypocrite you are. But what else is new?

I didn't argue with my boss when I was told there was not enough money for raises this year, unlike the teachers did. I didn't say, "But I should get a raise cause the elderly will be less cared for if I don't. Their care depends upon my paycheck getting bigger every year." (rolling my eyes) Now did I? I didn't use the 'elderly' as an excuse for why I should get paid more as the teachers used the "children" as their excuse. NO! I will give the exact same care to my clients at the exact same rate of pay as last year. And the teachers will give the exact same teaching to their students with or without a raise!

Would you be willing to work for half the salary because you care about the patients - as you expect teachers to do?

[pattygreen 5]

Anything good that has happened for the middle class in this country has come about because of (liberal) democrats. I have asked for anyone to name one program that has helped the middle class that has come from the republicans.[/QUOTE]

We can help ourselves. We don't like handouts. It only makes us dependent on the rest of humanities hard work. I understand why liberals feel the need to have the government be their fall guy. It gives them a sense of security. But conservatives are independent and we

like our freedom from the governments hold on us.

The more the government gives you, the more you will depend upon it. If it is suddenly taken away, what will you do? Be like Greece and scream and hollar and protest because the government took away the money you depended on when they could no longer afford to give it out anymore because they went belly up?! (BTW, by EU standards, the United States is insolvent. Our debt will exceed 100% of our GDP this year and our budget deficit is 12.4%. (EU limits deficits to 3% of GDP) The only thing protecting the United States dollar is momentum and faith. )

[pattygreen 5]

Greece is in trouble. The European Union recently agreed on a $146 billion bailout for the county to keep it from defaulting on its government debt. The 16 countries that share the euro currency agreed there was no other option but to rescue Greece from defaulting to keep the euro out of trouble. Other countries like Portugal and Spain are debt strapped as well.

How did Greece get into this mess? The short answer is years of unrestrained spending, cheap lending, and failure to implement financial reforms. The country held on to government programs that it couldn't afford, like a pension program that allowed workers to retire on a lifetime pension equivalent to 80% of their final salary. Also, tax evasion had become commonplace. The country had been hiding the severity of its mounting debt problems until the new Prime Minister was faced with a crop of government debt coming due and was forced to come clean.

Greece's national debt was reported at $415 billion. That's 115% of GDP. The Greek government initiated austerity measures that cut spending and government benefits, but current debts still remain. Investors feared a default that would threaten other eurozone countries.

The IMF, the world's lender of last resort, negotiated a nearly $1 trillion global emergency rescue package of standby funds and loan guarantees that could be tapped by eurozone governments in peril. This should help calm investors bring confidence back to the euro.

Is the United States far behind? Dennis Staaland

[pattygreen 5]

It has nothing to do with being technical it has to do with you lying to make a point. Just like the deathers did.

The average teacher works 190-192 days a year! I was off by 12 days.

[pattygreen 5]

Originally Posted by pattygreen

I'll just ignore your nasty comments at the end.

Teachers don't need to make more. They work 180 school days a year and get the summers off if they choose.Students go 180 days. Teachers work about 190-192 days which includes in-service and professional days.

Wow, I was off 12 days. My bad! (rolling eyes)

They work half the amount of days as the regular employee. The average employee works 240-245 days depending on the number of holidays they get and includes a two week vacation. How is that twice as many days as teachers? SHOW ME THE MATH.

(Wow! Technical, aren't you?) They work less then the average employee was my point.

It has nothing to do with being technical it has to do with you lying to make a point. Just like the deathers did.

They Get awesome benefits and perks and retirement packages as well as pensions. They have negotiated retirement, sick leave and personal leave. Unlike those in the private sector, they do not get paid vacations or holidays. So I am not sure what perks you refer to.

It depends on the school district for whom you work.

Most all get paid for the Christmas break, fall break, spring break and other holidays during the school year.

No, they don't. They get paid for just the days they work. Prove otherwise.

Most (but by no means all) school districts spread out the pay they earn over 10 months over all 12 months, so that they get the same paycheck all 12 months of the school year.

They have their salary that they earned spread out over 12 months. So what? They just make less each pay than they would if they had their pays given only for the 10 months. Big deal. Geez.

10 Days Sick leave is paid each year.

They earn sick days, just like private sector. Most unused sick days accumulate. You might get paid for unused ones when you retire.

They get quality health insurance, full dental and

long term disability.

So do people in the private sector. And again, they negotiated for these things. Administrators negotiate their contracts, why shouldn't the teachers?

They went to school just as long as the next guy and paid for thier tuitions just as much as the next guy. They get paid PLENTY! The NERVE of them complaining because they couldn't get their raise this year, as if they are more worthy than any other American who had to forgo their raise due to the economy! BULL! Who do they think they are?! Just because there isn't enough money for a raise they have the audacity to say the people don't "care" about the children. :thumbup: MY Butt! It's them that don't care about the children! If they cared, they'd do it for half of what they get.Well, using that logic - then all those workers who care for others from teachers, nurses, police officers, fire fighters, nursing home workers, child care workers should all do it for half of what they get if they "really cared". As I recall, pattygreen, you work in a nursing home. Do you think you should do it for half your salary because you care about the patients? Oh, wait, I know. You deserve YOUR salary because you don't make as much as teachers. Right? What a hypocrite you are. But what else is new?

I didn't argue with my boss when I was told there was not enough money for raises this year, unlike the teachers did. I didn't say, "But I should get a raise cause the elderly will be less cared for if I don't. Their care depends upon my paycheck getting bigger every year." (rolling my eyes) Now did I? I didn't use the 'elderly' as an excuse for why I should get paid more as the teachers used the "children" as their excuse. NO! I will give the exact same care to my clients at the exact same rate of pay as last year. And the teachers will give the exact same teaching to their students with or without a raise!

Would you be willing to work for half the salary because you care about the patients - as you expect teachers to do?

I don't expect teachers to work for Half their salaries! I expect them to stop bellyaching about not getting a raise when they are already making PLENTY enough money, when we are in a recession and just about every working person out there did not get a raise last year or this year! That's what I expect! I said, "If they "really" cared about the kids" and if that was the real reason for their complaint, they'd work for half the salary "for the 'children' ." They'd do it for them if that was their real reason. BUT IT'S NOT! The REAL reason is that they want more money in their paycheck, JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE IN THIS COUNTRY! Don't tell me "it's for the children!" It's for THEM!

[lauragshsu 6]

This is my issue, as a teacher, with teacher pay. I have a BS degee in elementary education, with a minor in ESL. I have a master's in curriculum and instruction. I make a whopping $29,000/year, and spend about $3,000-$5,000 a year out of pocket. On what, you might ask? I buy Cereal and keep it for kids who come without Breakfast. I buy mittens for those who can't afford them. I buy art materials because our school can't afford them. I buy books for my students (for my in class library). If students show an interest in a subject, I buy books on a variety of reading levels, just so they can get "into" reading. I buy materials to teach math and science so my kids aren't just readin the chapter and answering the questions at the end. I LOVE my job. I LOVE my kids.

I have spent around $100,000 on my degrees to make $29,000 a year ($24,000 after taxes). My brother, who barely (and I mean barely) passed high school makes $60,000 a year driving a truck.

People beg for highly educated, passionate teachers. And yet the pay they offer suggest otherwise.

[leroyspuds 0]

With regard to teachers: I may be wrong but I think they also work in the evening grading papers and during the summer putting together lesson plans and doing their continuing education. In any case, neither unions nor employers should be greedy. There needs to be a balance between the workers' needs and the employers' needs and collective bargaining is the tool to achieve that balance. There are statistics that can be used to determine what a fair wage is for a given occupation and area of the country too.

Now to: "I'm 63 and Im Tired" by Robert A. Hall

I'm 63. Except for one semester in college when jobs were scarce and a six-month period when I was between jobs, but job-hunting every day, I've worked, hard, since I was 18. Despite some health challenges, I still put in 50-hour weeks, and haven't called in sick in seven or eight years. I make a good salary, but I didn't inherit my job or my income, and I worked to get where I am. Given the economy, there's no retirement in sight, and I'm tired. Very tired. I'm also close to retirement and my investments are in the dumper because of Wall Street shenanigans, corporate greed and insufficient regulations. I'll likely be a Walmart greeter till I'm 90 yrs old!

I'm tired of being told that I have to "spread the wealth" to people who don't have my work ethic. (I believe this refers to the middle class, not welfare recipients.) I'm tired of being told the government will take the money I earned, by force if necessary, and give it to people too lazy to earn it. There has been a lot of reform to the welfare system. I don't think many people are allowed to be on general welfare these days. Most programs require working and/or job training to qualify for assistance. Things have changed and many social programs have helped people lift themselves up and become productive citizens. I was the Director of a job training program and have personally seen many sucess stories. We took people who were living under the poverty limit and spent a few thousand dollars to train them and they gained a lifetime skill and increased their income four fold, became taxpayers, and no longer needed assistance. There are statistics that show the success rates of these programs. I'm sure there are some who take advantage but, like any other government program, they need to be analyzed to determine effectiveness and to avoid wasteful spending.

I'm tired of being told that I have to pay more taxes to "keep people in their homes." Sure, if they lost their jobs or got sick, I'm willing to help. But if they bought McMansions at three times the price of our paid-off, $250,000 condo, on one-third of my salary, then let the left-wing Congress-critters who passed Fannie and Freddie and the Community Reinvestment Act that created the bubble help them with their own money. I don't want to shoulder the burden for any McMansions or house flippers either. But I think many folks were lured into low teaser rate and low downpayment mortages by bankers who should have known better, and who then turned around and packaged the loans and sold them as derivatives which sunk the market. My friend Frank bought his first home for him and his young son and they were doing fine until his employer decided to move the business to another state. Frank was unable to find a decent paying job in this economy and was unable to make his house payments and lost his little house. Just an ordinary guy who wanted a home of his own for his family.

I'm tired of being told how bad America is by left-wing millionaires like Michael Moore, George Soros and Hollywood Entertainers who live in luxury because of the opportunities America offers. In thirty years, if they get their way, the United States will have the economy of Zimbabwe , the freedom of the press of China , the crime and violence of Mexico , the tolerance for Christian people of Iran , and the freedom of speech of Venezuela. This is just silly talk.

I'm tired of being told that Islam is a "Religion of Peace," when every day I can read dozens of stories of Muslim men killing their sisters, wives and daughters for their family "honor"; of Muslims rioting over some slight offense; of Muslims murdering Christian and Jews because they aren't "believers"; of Muslims burning schools for girls; of Muslims stoning teenage rape victims to death for "adultery"; of Muslims mutilating the genitals of little girls; all in the name of Allah, because the Qur'an and Shari'a law tells them to. I don't care for that culture much either because of their treatment of women,but who is he blaming for this?

I'm tired of being told that "race doesn't matter" in the post-racial world of Obama, when it's all that matters in affirmative action jobs, lower college admission and graduation standards for minorities (harming them the most), government contract set-asides, tolerance for the ghetto culture of violence and fatherless children that hurts minorities more than anyone, and in the appointment of U.S. Senators from Illinois. Don't blame race for these problems. The problem is poverty, poor schools, and lack of job opportunities in poor neighborhoods. Yes, the welfare culture of the past fostered dependence; hence, welfare reform under Clinton. I have some heartburn with quota systems too, but then my family weren't slaves and didn't face the discrimination that blacks had to deal with for so long. This did call for some evening out of things for a while. Drugs and violence are hurting decent families in these neighborhoods. A lot of communities have gotten into a hole that's real hard to dig out of. Education, job training, economic development, proper nutrition and health care, and strong law enforcement is what's called for. Being pissed off at black people isn't going to solve the problem.

I think it's very cool that we have a black president and that a black child is doing her homework at the desk where Lincoln wrote the Emancipation Proclamation. I just wish the black president was Condi Rice, or someone who believes more in freedom and the individual and less arrogantly of an all-knowing government. Condi Rice didn't do squat. I'm quite sure Obama belives in freedom. The difference between Obama and Bush on the subject of freedom is god isn't telling Obama to invade other countries.

I'm tired of a news media that thinks Bush's fundraising and inaugural expenses were obscene, but that think Obama's, at triple the cost, were wonderful; that thinks Bush exercising daily was a waste of presidential time, but Obama exercising is a great example for the public to control weight and stress trivial-who cares; that picked over every line of Bush's military records, but never demanded that Kerry release his Kerry wasn't a drunken coke snortin privleged chicken shit like Bush; that slammed Palin, with two years as governor, for being too inexperienced for VP Palin doesn't qualify because her IQ is on the left side of bell curve, but touted Obama with three years as senator as potentially the best president ever. Wonder why people are dropping their subscriptions or switching to Fox News? Get a clue. I didn't vote for Bush in 2000, but the media and Kerry drove me to his camp in 2004. Not too bright.

I'm tired of being told that out of "tolerance for other cultures" we must let Saudi Arabia use our oil money to fund mosques and mandrassa Islamic schools to preach hate in America , while no American group is allowed to fund a church, synagogue or religious school in Saudi Arabia to teach love and tolerance. Don't want my taxes spent on religion - PERIOD! We kiss up to Saudi Arabia because we need allies to help us protect our Middle East interests because we're oil junkies.

I'm tired of being told I must lower my living standard to fight global warming, which no one is allowed to debate. It's been debated ad infinitum. Scientists agree on it, only rich corporations and their Republican lackies dispute it. My wife and I live in a two-bedroom apartment and carpool together five miles to our jobs. We also own a three-bedroom condo where our daughter and granddaughter live. Our carbon footprint is about 5% of Al Gore's, and if you're greener than Gore, you're green enough.

I'm tired of being told that drug addicts have a disease, and I must help support and treat them, and pay for the damage they do. Did a giant germ rush out of a dark alley, grab them, and stuff white powder up their noses while they tried to fight it off? I don't think Gay people choose to be Gay, but I damn sure think druggies chose to take drugs. And I'm tired of harassment from cool people treating me like a freak when I tell them I never tried marijuana. Ignorant.

I'm tired of illegal aliens being called "undocumented workers," especially the ones who aren't working, but are living on welfare or crime. Undocumented workers does mean "workers" without a green card authorizing them to be here to work -- illegal immigrants are a broader definition of all who come here with having gone through the paperwork. Anyway, who gives a crap about the semantics. Most people who immigrate don't commit crimes. I believe most people who immigrate want to work. Read the statistics. What's next? Calling drug dealers, "Undocumented Pharmacists"? :thumbup: And, no, I'm not against Hispanics. Most of them are Catholic, and it's been a few hundred years since Catholics wanted to kill me for my religion I'm willing to fast track for citizenship any Hispanic person, who can speak English, doesn't have a criminal record and who is self-supporting without family on welfare, or who serves honorably for three years in our military.... Those are the citizens we need. I don't know anyone who is "for" illegal immigration. A lot of the problem is the backlog in processing the work permits. A lot of employers depend on this workforce so we need to get more efficient in this area. Even Republicans acknowledge this.

I'm tired of latte yummy liberals and journalists, who would never wear the uniform of the Republic themselves, or let their entitlement- handicapped kids near a recruiting station, trashing our military. They and their kids can sit at home, never having to make split-second decisions under life and death circumstances, and bad mouth better people than themselves Do bad things happen in war? You bet. Do our troops sometimes misbehave? Sure. Does this compare with the atrocities that were the policy of our enemies for the last fifty years and still are? Not even close. So here's the deal. I'll let myself be subjected to all the humiliation and abuse that was heaped on terrorists at Abu Ghraib or Gitmo, and the critics can let themselves be subject to captivity by the Muslims, who tortured and beheaded Daniel Pearl in Pakistan, or the Muslims who tortured and murdered Marine Lt. Col. William Higgins in Lebanon, or the Muslims who ran the blood-spattered Al Qaeda torture rooms our troops found in Iraq, or the Muslims who cut off the heads of schoolgirls in Indonesia, because the girls were Christian. Then we'll compare notes. British and American soldiers are the only troops in history that civilians came to for help and handouts, instead of hiding from in fear. Sorry this isn't the Viet Nam era. Americans support their troops but many disagree with unnecessarily spilling their blood in senseless so called wars. Civilized nations shouldn't torture. Even if you ignore the humanitarian issue and just evaluate the effectiveness of it -- it's been proven not to work. Not much we can do about the uncivilized terrorists, but we don't need to model ourselves after them right?

I'm tired of people telling me that their party has a corner on virtue and the other party has a corner on corruption. Read the papers; bums are bipartisan. And I'm tired of people telling me we need bipartisanship I live in Illinois , where the "Illinois Combine" of Democrats has worked to loot the public for years. Not to mention the tax cheats in Obama's cabinet. Blah, blah. Agreed that bums come in all political parties, races, religions and so forth. Liberals to tend to be more altruistic and less self-serving though, which is why I'm one of them. Just one of my values.

I'm tired of hearing wealthy athletes, entertainers and politicians of both parties talking about innocent mistakes, stupid mistakes or youthful mistakes, when we all know they think their only mistake was getting caught. I'm tired of people with a sense of entitlement, rich or poor. Trivial.

Speaking of poor, I'm tired of hearing people with air-conditioned homes, color TVs and two cars called poor. The majority of Americans didn't have that in 1970, but we didn't know we were "poor." The poverty pimps have to keep changing the definition of poor to keep the dollars flowing. Blah blah.

I'm real tired of people who don't take responsibility for their lives and actions. I'm tired of hearing them blame the government, or discrimination or big-whatever for their problems. Actually, some problems are caused by these things and we need to correct those, not ignore them because it's easier.

Yes, I'm damn tired. But I'm also glad to be 63. Because, mostly, I'm not going to have to see the world these people are making. I'm just sorry for my granddaughter. Agreed.

Robert A. Hall is a Marine Vietnam veteran who served five terms in the Massachusetts State Senate.

This guy makes a few good points but most of this is Fox Noise and trivial rambling. He's clearly feeling frustrated like the rest of us though. Guess we all have our own versions of what the causes and fixes are. Patty, in your own words what are your frustrations? Not cut and paste.

Edited June 5, 2010 by leroyspuds
want to make one more comment

[Cleo's Mom 257]

It has nothing to do with being technical it has to do with you lying to make a point. Just like the deathers did.

The average teacher works 190-192 days a year! I was off by 12 days.

I was referring to your statement that teachers work half the number of days private employees work. And I asked you to show me the math.

Edited June 5, 2010 by Cleo's Mom

[Cleo's Mom 257]

I don't expect teachers to work for Half their salaries! I expect them to stop bellyaching about not getting a raise when they are already making PLENTY enough money, when we are in a recession and just about every working person out there did not get a raise last year or this year! That's what I expect! I said, "If they "really" cared about the kids" and if that was the real reason for their complaint, they'd work for half the salary "for the 'children' ."If you really cared about your patients, would you work for half your salary "for the patients"? YOU HAVEN'T ANSWERED THIS YET.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

This is my issue, as a teacher, with teacher pay. I have a BS degee in elementary education, with a minor in ESL. I have a master's in curriculum and instruction. I make a whopping $29,000/year, and spend about $3,000-$5,000 a year out of pocket. On what, you might ask? I buy cereal and keep it for kids who come without breakfast. I buy mittens for those who can't afford them. I buy art materials because our school can't afford them. I buy books for my students (for my in class library). If students show an interest in a subject, I buy books on a variety of reading levels, just so they can get "into" reading. I buy materials to teach math and science so my kids aren't just readin the chapter and answering the questions at the end. I LOVE my job. I LOVE my kids.

I have spent around $100,000 on my degrees to make $29,000 a year ($24,000 after taxes). My brother, who barely (and I mean barely) passed high school makes $60,000 a year driving a truck.

People beg for highly educated, passionate teachers. And yet the pay they offer suggest otherwise.

You shouldn't have to drive a truck to make $60,000 but we don't value those who care for others - like teachers, child care workers, nurses, police officers, social workers, etc..

We value corporate america, sports figures and the entertainment industry. Oh, and yes, those idiots on conservative tv and radio who are buffoons but have bigger buffoons who listen to them. :thumbup:

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Anything good that has happened for the middle class in this country has come about because of (liberal) democrats. I have asked for anyone to name one program that has helped the middle class that has come from the republicans.[/QUOTE]

We can help ourselves. We don't like handouts. It only makes us dependent on the rest of humanities hard work. I understand why liberals feel the need to have the government be their fall guy. It gives them a sense of security. But conservatives are independent and we

like our freedom from the governments hold on us.

The more the government gives you, the more you will depend upon it. If it is suddenly taken away, what will you do? Be like Greece and scream and hollar and protest because the government took away the money you depended on when they could no longer afford to give it out anymore because they went belly up?! (BTW, by EU standards, the United States is insolvent. Our debt will exceed 100% of our GDP this year and our budget deficit is 12.4%. (EU limits deficits to 3% of GDP) The only thing protecting the United States dollar is momentum and faith. )

The fact that you can vote, that you can apply for any job or join the military, the fact that your workplace has safety rules, and your Water, food and medications safe to take - have been brought to you by democrats (liberals). The fact that your money in your bank is insured is brought to you by democrats and liberals. The fact that your car has airbags and seatbelts to protect you are from liberals and democrats.

The fact that the crib and car seat in which you placed your children were safe - came from liberals. The fact that you are required to protect your child with a car seat came from liberals. The fact that paint can no longer have lead, which harms children, is thanks to liberals.

The fact that the lawnmower that you used to cut your grass had safety features came from liberals.

The list can go on and on... but my point is that you do not take care of yourself totally without help and are dependent on the things the liberals and democrats have worked on to improve life for the middle class regardless of whether or not you admit it.