Conservative VS Liberal

[Cleo's Mom 257]

On a personal note, I became a grandmother today when my daughter gave birth to my beautiful grandson. I couldn't be happier.

A future democrat!!

[BJean 16]

Congratulations Cleo's!!!! That's fabulous news! Yay grandma!

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Congratulations Cleo's!!!! That's fabulous news! Yay grandma!

Thank you.

[tdslf1 0]

Congrats Cleo!

I became a grandma about 2 years ago and I am fortunate that I get to see her everyday if I want since my son lives in the same town two streets over. It's unbelievable for me to have kids that I love, but before she was born, I didn't think I could love her more than my own kids. Not more maybe but more intense when I hear her call me to help her with something and see her jump out of the car and run into my arms. Sometimes you get so busy raising kids you forget to stop and see how incredible they are at that age. My heart just jumps when I see her.

Congrats again.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Congrats Cleo!

I became a grandma about 2 years ago and I am fortunate that I get to see her everyday if I want since my son lives in the same town two streets over. It's unbelievable for me to have kids that I love, but before she was born, I didn't think I could love her more than my own kids. Not more maybe but more intense when I hear her call me to help her with something and see her jump out of the car and run into my arms. Sometimes you get so busy raising kids you forget to stop and see how incredible they are at that age. My heart just jumps when I see her.

Congrats again.

Thank you. It is incredible. My daughter lives in the area but not in my town (I wish), so I have to travel almost an hour to get there (because of my driving, LOL). And my son and his wife (who do live closer) will make me a grandma again in September. Another grandson. The only sad part to all of this is that my beloved husband, who died 4 years ago, is not here to share in all this joy.

Thanks again.

[leroyspuds 0]

congrats on your new grandbaby!

[Cleo's Mom 257]

congrats on your new grandbaby!

Thank you. I'm getting ready to go down to the hospital again today. Can't see enough of him.

[tdslf1 0]

Did any one hear the idiot Beck talk about the Obama girl on his radio? This waste of human is even lower than I thought. No one has ever heard Obama attack anyones children and yet, Bizerk thought it was ok to talk about the presidents kids? Just when I think he can't show himself to be a lower level of human, he proves me wrong. And yet he probably gets a pat on the back from his sub prime viewers.

[pattygreen 5]

Patty, you've often said Christians aren't against homosexuality just gay marriage. In fact, many Christian conservatives and religious leaders are indeed anti-gay, not just against gay marriage.

Christians ARE against homosexuality. I never said they weren't. It is a sin and all Christians should be against anything that is sinful. Christians don't HATE the sinner, they hate the sin. Christians can't stop sin from happening. Sometimes, they are the ones who sin the most, and they can't even stop themselves from sinning. So, while we are against the sin of homosexuality, we can not do anything to keep others from practicing it, but we can do something about the laws in this country that can allow this kind of sin to be instituted as "marriage". This is where Christians can do something.

I do not want to tell others (homosexuals) what they can and can't do. If they want to participate in those acts, then go right ahead. They will answer to God for what they do, just as I will for my wrongs. So, in that sense, I'm not against homosexuality. I would be against any law that makes it okay. I am against any laws that make sin of any kind acceptable in society.

The bible teaches that in the end, people will be confused as to what is right and what is wrong. They will make what's good in God's eyes, bad.... and what's bad in God's eyes, good. I see this happening all around us.

[leroyspuds 0]

QUOTE PG: "Christians ARE against homosexuality. I never said they weren't. It is a sin and all Christians should be against anything that is sinful."

--------------------------------------------------------

PG, in an earlier post you said let them have a ball, you were only against them getting married because it's against the definition of marraige between one man and one woman. Regardless, Christians disapprove of homosexuality based on the Old testament – Book 2 - Leviticus. However, they have a convenient way of ignoring whichever of god's laws they want to:

These are all equally bad and call for punishment by death. Pick the ones to ignore:

• Death to men who lay with other men as they would a woman.
  
• Death to children who curse at their parents.
  
• Death to those who labor on the sabbath.
  
• Death to those who have sex with anyone but their spouse.
  
• Death to anyone who kills a man.
  

Other Abominations. Pick the abominations to ignore:

• Eating a pig, shrimp, lobster or any shellfish.
  
• Approaching the altar if you’re blind, lame, a dwarf, or have a flat nose.
  
• Cross breeding plants and cattle.
  
• Wearing clothes made of more than one kind of Fiber.
  
• Shaving your head, cutting your beard, getting a tattoo.
  
• Having sex during your menstrual cycle punishable by exile from your people.
  

Many folks on the religious right rail against paying taxes for social programs and say hateful things about those of other races and nationalities and sexual orientations, immigrants, etc. That’s also a no no according to Leviticus -- but ignore, ignore, ignore:

“You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against the sons of your own people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

“When a stranger sojourns with you in your land, you shall not do him wrong. You shall treat the stranger who sojourns with you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt.

“If your brother becomes poor and cannot maintain himself with you, you shall support him as though he were a stranger and a sojourner, and he shall live with you. Take no interest from him or profit, but fear your God, that your brother may live beside you.”

Matthew 22:36-40 and there’s this to think about:

The Pharisees, the chief religious sect of that day, made almost an art form of classifying all the various laws and giving them relative degrees of importance. They asked Jesus what the greatest commandment in the Law was to test him. His answer: Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the prophets hang on these two commandments.

Hypocrisy is the act of persistently professing beliefs, opinions, virtues, feelings, qualities, or standards that are inconsistent with one's actions. Hypocrisy is thus a kind of lie. Here’s what Luke 6:41-43 says about that:

"Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, 'Brother, let me take out the speck that is in your eye,' when you yourself do not see the log that is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take out the speck that is in your brother's eye.”

IMO, hypocrisy is the very worst sin of all. QUOTE PG: "All Christians should be against anything that is sinful." Next time you and your husband go out to dinner tell him not to shave, don't wear your favorite cotton blend dress, and please, please don't have the shrimp!.....

[BJean 16]

Christian ARE against homosexuality. I never said they weren't It is a sin and all Christians should be against anything that is sinful. Christians don't HATE the sinner, they hate the sin. Christians can't stop sin from happening. Sometimes, they are the ones who sin the most, and they can't even stop themselves from sinning. So, while we are against the sin of homosexuality, we can not do anything to keep others from practicing it, but we can do something about the laws in this country that can allow this kind of sin to be instituted as "marriage". This is where Christians can do something.

The bible teaches that in the end, people will be confused as to what is right and what is wrong. They will make what's good in God's eyes, bad.... and what's bad in God's eyes, good. I see this happening all around us.

God's eyes? You're the person who can tells us what God sees? I don't think so. But this thing you said bears repeating: "But it makes total sense that the Bible teaches that in the end, people will be confused as to what is right and what is wrong. They will make what's good in God's eyes bad... and what's bad in God's eyes, good."

Then you go on to say: "I see this happening all around us."

And I say, you see what you want to see. Unfortunately what you don't see is that YOUR kind are the ones who think that what is bad is good.

Your people have decided that passing judgement upon others is good. Your people have decided that some of the most corrupt of corporate billionaires are the ones you should support and listen to. Your people think that your very own government is bad. Your people think that homosexuals should join a fundamentalist church and deny who they really are - the person that GOD made. Your people think that the unfortuantes in our society should pull themselves up by their bootstraps and get to work because YOUR people don't want to provide one thing for them if it is paid with tax dollars.

YOUR people are the very people that God had in his eyes when he said in the end people would have it backwards - the things that are good will be thought to be bad and the things that are bad will be thought to be good.

You make a perfect point about the right wing extremists today - they have it backwards and they are too blind, blind, blind to see. Interestingly they are using God to do their dirty work. And they will atone for it in the end.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Very well said, BJean. And you will also notice that her kind uses the bible in selective ways that suits them. The bible passages that support helping the least among us? Well, those just mean neighbors helping neighbors, not the government. But the bible passages against abortion and homosexuality? Well, obviously those passage cry out for government laws against these things. Such hypocrisy and twisted logic are an abuse of biblical interpretations.

[BJean 16]

Yes, Cleo's and it is mind-numbingly painful to watch. They are strengthening their beliefs by repeating the bad that they think is good so often they are frenzied in their efforts to fight against what God would see, according to Jesus, as good. It's painful to watch and very sad don't you think?

[pattygreen 5]

QUOTE PG: "Christians ARE against homosexuality. I never said they weren't. It is a sin and all Christians should be against anything that is sinful."

--------------------------------------------------------

PG, in an earlier post you said let them have a ball, you were only against them getting married because it's against the definition of marraige between one man and one woman. Regardless, Christians disapprove of homosexuality based on the Old testament – Book 2 - Leviticus. However, they have a convenient way of ignoring whichever of god's laws they want to:

I am against ALL sin. Homosexuality as well as any other sin like gluttony, lying, stealing, thinking bad thought, etc. I will always be against sin. When I said "let them have a ball", I meant just that. Do what you want. You will have to answer for it. I just don't like laws that say it's okay to sin. For instance, I don't like the abortion law we have. I don't like any law that makes prostitution legal. I would not approve of legalizing marajuana, etc.

Example: I would not allow my grown son to have his girlfriend live here with us. It is a sin to have sex outside of marriage. I can not stop him from having sex with her in their car or at a hotel, but in my home, I am resposible to God for what I allow. Now, In this society, the people make the laws. I will have to vote against what I know that God would not approve of, because I will be held accountable to him for that vote. I can't help what the people do in the privacy of their own homes, so I am not going to be held accountable for that. So, go ahead, have a ball. Do what you want. I am against any kind of sinful act, but what the people vote for is what they get. They are the ones who will have to answer to God for their vote that passed a sinful act bill. Not me.

These are all equally bad and call for punishment by death. Pick the ones to ignore:

• Death to men who lay with other men as they would a woman.
  
• Death to children who curse at their parents.
  
• Death to those who labor on the sabbath.
  
• Death to those who have sex with anyone but their spouse.
  
• Death to anyone who kills a man.
  

Other Abominations. Pick the abominations to ignore:

• Eating a pig, shrimp, lobster or any shellfish.
  
• Approaching the altar if you’re blind, lame, a dwarf, or have a flat nose.
  
• Cross breeding plants and cattle.
  
• Wearing clothes made of more than one kind of Fiber.< /span>
  
• Shaving your head, cutting your beard, getting a tattoo.
  
• Having sex during your menstrual cycle punishable by exile from your people.
  

Many folks on the religious right rail against paying taxes for social programs and say hateful things about those of other races and nationalities and sexual orientations, immigrants, etc. That’s also a no no according to Leviticus -- but ignore, ignore, ignore:

“You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against the sons of your own people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

“When a stranger sojourns with you in your land, you shall not do him wrong. You shall treat the stranger who sojourns with you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt.

“If your brother becomes poor and cannot maintain himself with you, you shall support him as though he were a stranger and a sojourner, and he shall live with you. Take no interest from him or profit, but fear your God, that your brother may live beside you.”

Matthew 22:36-40 and there’s this to think about:

The Pharisees, the chief religious sect of that day, made almost an art form of classifying all the various laws and giving them relative degrees of importance. They asked Jesus what the greatest commandment in the Law was to test him. His answer: Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the prophets hang on these two commandments.

I have no qualms with this. As I have said before, Christians love the sinner, we just hate the sin.

Hypocrisy is the act of persistently professing beliefs, opinions, virtues, feelings, qualities, or standards that are inconsistent with one's actions. Hypocrisy is thus a kind of lie. Here’s what Luke 6:41-43 says about that:

"Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, 'Brother, let me take out the speck that is in your eye,' when you yourself do not see the log that is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take out the speck that is in your brother's eye.”

IMO, hypocrisy is the very worst sin of all. QUOTE PG: "All Christians should be against anything that is sinful." Next time you and your husband go out to dinner tell him not to shave, don't wear your favorite cotton blend dress, and please, please don't have the shrimp!..... :cursing:

What you fail to understand about God's word is that when Jesus came, he ended the ceremonial laws of the old testament. Only those laws which were reiterated in the new testament still stand. Homosexuality is one of them, along with many others.

It is NOT hypocritical to hate sin and to be against anything that is sinful. It is what God wants us to do. He hates sin himself. He abhors it. It is detestable to Him. He loves the people he created, but he hates the sinful things they do. So do I. And, I will not be ashamed to say it.

[pattygreen 5]

God's eyes? You're the person who can tells us what God sees?

Yes. I am. And you can be also, if you would read his words to you, you will know what he sees. God's plan is for everyone to know him that intimately.

I don't think so. But this thing you said bears repeating: "But it makes total sense that the Bible teaches that in the end, people will be confused as to what is right and what is wrong. They will make what's good in God's eyes bad... and what's bad in God's eyes, good."

Then you go on to say: "I see this happening all around us."

And I say, you see what you want to see. Unfortunately what you don't see is that YOUR kind are the ones who think that what is bad is good.

God has given us the bible so that we can know what He stands for and what He doesn't. We can know right from wrong. There is so much controbversy over what should be acceptable in society and what shouldn't be. There is no need for controversy. God has spelled it out for us.

Your people have decided that passing judgement upo

n others is good.

No. passing judgement on others is not good.. But, God has given us the ability to know right from wrong because he shares that with us in the scripture. I can not deny that homosexuality is wrong. If you want to call that passing judgement, then so be it. But, to me passing judgement is when you say this one or that one will go to hell for doing what they are doing. I make no judgement calls. I just can tell you what God says about certain sins. Only God knows if that homosexual loves him and is sorrowful for his sins. Not me.

Your people have decided that some of the most corrupt of corporate billionaires are the ones you should support and listen to.

No. We don't support corrupt businessmen. If they are sinning, we are against it. I listen to noone but God.

Your people think that your very own government is bad.

True. The government, for the most part, is very corrupt. Not ALL government, mind you. But, IMO, most. They take from people to give to others, (steal) they waste finances horrendously, they lie to the people all the time, They say what the people want to hear to better themselves financially. They are out to advance their own power.

Your people think that homosexuals should join a fundamentalist church and deny who they really are - the person that GOD made.

I wouldn't tell anyone, homosexual or not, what church to join. Also, God made all the people, this is true. But he did not tell them who to have sex with.

Your people think that the unfortuantes in our society should pull themselves up by their bootstraps and get to work because YOUR people don't want to provide one thing for them if it is paid with tax dollars.

True, partially. I don't want to provide for others with my tax dollars. I want to be able to decide who I should be charitable to. I believe that when we provide for others, they become dependent upon it. The unfortunates in society should work, if they can, but if they can't, then the churches out there are there to help them. Also, the government has programs that help the poor. (I have always stated that I am not against a hand up, but I am against a hand out) Government should allow those without work to be the ones to do government jobs that need to be done in exchange for those food stamps and welfare checks. And they should eliminate the government paid jobs that ordinary citizens could do that are on welfare.

YOUR people are the very people that God had in his eyes when he said in the end people would have it backwards - the things that are good will be thought to be bad and the things that are bad will be thought to be good.

wrong once again. God said that in the end, those who call right, wrong and those who call wrong, right, will be the ones who are decieved. That's you.

You make a perfect point about the right wing extremists today - they have it backwards and they are too blind, blind, blind to see. Interestingly they are using God to do their dirty work. And they will atone for it in the end.

How sad for you. You are soooo blind to God's truths about what is right and wrong that you can't see that you are decieved. MY people, as you call them, are God's children. Those who believe in Him are redeemed. Those who don't shall perish. So, God has given His children the truth.