Conservative VS Liberal

[LeighaMason 19]

I have always wondered, Who declared us right? Just because we think what we do is the best way, don't others have the right to determine how they want to live? Maybe everyone in the world doesn't want a democracy. Why do we feel the need to push ourselves into their lives? (Obvious human injustices excluded, i.e. genocide etc.)

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Tea Party Vandalism - reflective of their extremist and whacko ideas (and stupidity):

Editor: Steve Kornacki

Friday, May 14, 2010 23:15 ET Joan Walsh

Maine Tea Party: Worse than you think

State GOP apologizes after conventioneers vandalize an eighth grade classroom

By Joan Walsh Tea Party defenders like to accuse Tea Party critics of focusing on a tiny minority of racist, crazy or potentially violent freaks, and ignoring the vast majority of sensible, respectful law abiding folk who just support smaller government. Why, just the other day, James Taranto of the Wall Street Journal pointed to the Tea Party group that played by the rules and took over the Maine GOP's convention, to push lovely and constructive Tea Party ideas into the party's platform, as an example of the productive role the movement plays.

Of course, a day later I wrote about how many crackpot ideas they got into Maine's constitution. But hey, one person's crackpot ideas are another person's political brilliance. I get that.

Is vandalism likewise in the eye of the beholder? I'm not so sure.

Thanks to Think Progress, I learned Friday that their ideas weren't all that was crazy about the Maine Tea Partiers. The state GOP just apologized to Portland's King Middle School, because conventioneers – who gathered at the Expo, but used the middle school for caucusing – unbelievably, vandalized an eighth-grade classroom. Relying on reports in the Portland Press Herald, Think Progress describes what the Tea Party caucusers did to eighth-grade teacher Paul Clifford's class:

– For seven years, Clifford has had “a collage-type poster depicting the history of the U.S. labor movement” on his classroom door. He uses it “to teach his students how to incorporate collages into their annual project on Norman Rockwell’s historic ‘Four Freedoms’ illustrations.” When Clifford returned to his classroom on Monday, after the GOP caucuses, the poster was gone; in its place was a sticker reading, “Working People Vote Republican.”

– Republicans opened a “closed cardboard box they found near Clifford’s desk” and later objected to the fact that it contained copies of the U.S. Constitution donated to the school by the American Civil Liberties Union.

– After the caucuses, “rank-and-file Republicans who were upset by what they said they had seen in Clifford’s classroom” began calling the school, objecting to student art they had seen and a sticker on a filing cabinet reading “People for the American Way — Fight the Right.”

When Clifford got to work and saw the poster had been replaced by the "Working People Vote Republican" sticker, at first he laughed, he told the Portland Press Herald, thinking, "'All right, that's funny, But then I go inside my room thinking the poster will be on my desk – and it isn't. And so now I'm like, 'You know what? This is baloney!"'

Clifford started trying to get his poster back, but meanwhile, Tea Partiers were calling the school to protest what they found in Clifford's classroom. Never mind that Norman Rockwell was once synonymous with mainstream American values. Never mind that the "Four Freedoms," as articulated by Franklin D. Roosevelt in his 1941 State of the Union speech (as what became known as World War II raged on) are enshrined on a cherished monument in Washington D.C.

Here's what Roosevelt actually said in his famous speech:

In the future days, which we seek to make secure, we look forward to a world founded upon four essential human freedoms.

The first is freedom of speech and expression--everywhere in the world.

The second is freedom of every person to worship God in his own way--everywhere in the world.

The third is freedom from want--which, translated into world terms, means economic understandings which will secure to every nation a healthy peacetime life for its inhabitants--everywhere in the world.

The fourth is freedom from fear--which, translated into world terms, means a world-wide reduction of armaments to such a point and in such a thorough fashion that no nation will be in a position to commit an act of physical aggression against any neighbor--anywhere in the world.

That is no vision of a distant millennium. It is a definite basis for a kind of world attainable in our own time and generation. That kind of world is the very antithesis of the so-called new order of tyranny which the dictators seek to create with the crash of a bomb.

Sadly, you can see what the Tea Partiers, and too many Republicans, would find objectionable: Freedom from want and freedom from fear. Because most of them believe in want and fear, as necessary to animate the corporate national security regime. (Sadly, too many Democrats seem to support that too.) And of course, the Republican right objects to the "freedom of every person to worship God in his own way," so a whole lot of the GOP is against three out of four freedoms. So much for the party of freedom and liberty. True patriots would likely rise up against the state propagation of want and fear, but that's really not what the Tea Party is about.

Whatever. It's not my cup of tea. This is America, they're entitled to their beliefs.

What I can't see is how anyone would defend trashing a public school classroom to symbolize their objections to whatever they believed was going on there. And yet the Press Herald received email from Tea Party activists defending what happened (even as the Maine GOP, to its credit, apologized to the students and teachers of King Middle School.)

Clifford's students quickly responded. Simon Johnson, a graduate of Clifford’s eighth-grade class blogged:

I am an unapologetic graduate of Paul Clifford’s eighth grade English class at King Middle School. I participated in the “Four Freedoms” expedition, and I made a poster decrying war quite similar to the one with which the Republicans took issue.

I am not brainwashed, I am not a puppet, I am not anti-American or anti-religious, and I am certainly not stupid. Paul Clifford’s class taught me to think critically, to deductively reason and, if anything, to appreciate America for all the freedoms with which I am ensured on a daily basis.

Clearly, the Knox County Republicans — who took a cherished, pro-Labor poster from Clifford’s room and who now are making slanderous and uninformed claims about Clifford — have a different agenda.

Eighth-grader Lilly O'Leary emailed the Press-Herald: "I am not being brainwashed...I am being told that I have the right to my own opinion." She added, "These people were adults and they were acting very immaturely."

But hey, the Tea Partiers are the best of American values and the future of the Republican Party, Lilly! James Taranto of Rupert Murdoch's Wall Street Journal vouches for them. Get with the program!

Lilly O'Leary and Simon Johnson are patriots. The Tea Party cowards who vandalized an eighth-grade classroom are not.

I guess this vandalism is also reflective of their making statements based on morals (sins) and being more intelligent than liberals.

Edited May 16, 2010 by Cleo's Mom

[BJean 16]

I have always wondered, Who declared us right? Just because we think what we do is the best way, don't others have the right to determine how they want to live? Maybe everyone in the world doesn't want a democracy. Why do we feel the need to push ourselves into their lives? (Obvious human injustices excluded, i.e. genocide etc.)

I totally agree, as do many Americans.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

The government gets bashed on these boards by certain posters and in public by those who worship saint ronnie, so I am happy to post the following:

I'm from the Government, and I'm here to help you

Mon May 17, 2010 at 02:12:27 AM PDT

a teacher

a fireman

a policeman/state trooper

an ambulance driver

a soldier/sailor/airman/Marine/Coastguardsman

an air traffic controller

a public librarian

a curator at the Smithsonian

I have your check from

Social Security

Medicare

Medicaid

the Veterans Administration

I inspect your

roads

bridges

dams

subways

airplanes

rail road tracks

food

I make sure that you don't get poisoned by

food

beverage

prescription medicines

over the counter drugs

I make sure unsafe things are repaired/recalled/replaced, things like

pet food from China containing Melamine

toys from China with lead-based paint

cars with dangerous defects

dolls with noses on which children can choke

cribs between whose slats children can get caught and choke

I guarantee loans so you can

buy a house

go to college

start a business

I'm from the Government. You should be thankful that there are people like me.

We are you. We are your family and your neighbors.

We help each other.

Don't let anyone convince you otherwise.

I'm from the government, and I'm here to help you.

Peace.

dailykos

[BJean 16]

It's so simple it is ridiculous and the right wing nut jobs still rail against the government - their fear of the government - their fear that the government rules their lives - their fear that all of their income will go to lazy good for nothings who don't work because they just don't want to.

It's too simple for angry, fearful, selfish people to understand. And why you ask? Because they've been brainwashed and propagandized their whole lives and are in constant fear of the devil and hell and the condemnation of people like saint ronnie to throw down their shackles and think outside the box that their Bible has put them in.

I'm not saying give up your Bible. I'm saying that people will never improve the government, never improve their country and never improve themselves as long as they just hold their Bible in one hand and rail against the world with the other.

The right thing to do is to use the Bible as inspiration not as a shackle. Improve your life, don't stay mired in the muck of hate and distrust. Improve your country instead of trying to re-write history or live in the past.

We are the government. We are America. It is bigger than us but it is us. We're in control and what we need to do is figure out solutions, not rail against everything everyday.

President Obama is not the second coming. He's not the Messiah. He is simply a man who is well-educated, intelligent and who has a lot of experience being a man who is praised and a man who has been discrminated against. So he brings a whole lot to the table. He wants to improve not only the country but he wants to improve us as people. He's accomplished more in this first year than most presidents have in their entire tenure in office.

Criticize him if you disagree. That's good, we want that. But don't write him off as a bad and ineffective president because that's the furthest thing from who he is.

[leroyspuds 0]

"It's so simple it is ridiculous and the right wing nut jobs still rail against the government - their fear of the government - their fear that the government rules their lives"

---------------------------------------------------------

Excellent posts BJean and CM!

One of the ironies related to the quote above is that is it conservatives who are trying to take away our freedom. They want to regulate our consentual adult sex lives, women's bodies, and scientific progress that could lead to saving lives.

This is what I fear: that a conservative majority would change laws that result in us losing our basic freedoms because of the bible. Separation of church and state has already been discussed so I won't go there -- but you get my point.

This is what I fear: that conservatives are going to remove books and curriculums that offer other points of view besides the white Christian supremacy and that our children will grow up ignorant and be unable to survive in a modern complex society and economy.

This is what I fear: that certain groups that support conservative values like white supremicists, KKK, homophobes, pro-lifers and other racists and religious zealots are going to assault and murder people who aren't like them. Republicans pander to these groups just to get their votes and that lends validation to them.

This is what I fear: that the right wing media stirs up conservatives to the point where they feel violence is justified. It's all just a show to get advertising dollars but uniformed and uneducated people believe it.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

"It's so simple it is ridiculous and the right wing nut jobs still rail against the government - their fear of the government - their fear that the government rules their lives"

---------------------------------------------------------

Excellent posts BJean and CM!

One of the ironies related to the quote above is that is it conservatives who are trying to take away our freedom. They want to regulate our consentual adult sex lives, women's bodies, and scientific progress that could lead to saving lives.

This is what I fear: that a conservative majority would change laws that result in us losing our basic freedoms because of the bible. Separation of church and state has already been discussed so I won't go there -- but you get my point.

This is what I fear: that conservatives are going to remove books and curriculums that offer other points of view besides the white Christian supremacy and that our children will grow up ignorant and be unable to survive in a modern complex society and economy.

This is what I fear: that certain groups that support conservative values like white supremicists, KKK, homophobes, pro-lifers and other racists and religious zealots are going to assault and murder people who aren't like them. Republicans pander to these groups just to get their votes and that lends validation to them.

This is what I fear: that the right wing media stirs up conservatives to the point where they feel violence is justified. It's all just a show to get advertising dollars but uniformed and uneducated people believe it.

You are absolutely right. You see what the teabagger vandals did to the classroom of free thinkers. They were obviously threatened by it. You see what Texas has done to rewrite history with their history books. In Dover, PA, they tried to get creationism taught in the schools. Luckily, they were shut down in the courts.

You see the neocon pundits on talk shows trying to rewrite history with regard to the bush administration when Dana Perino, the former white house press secretary, say we weren't attacked during the bush presidency and rudy giuliani saying 9/11 didn't happen on bush's watch. Unbelievable and scary which is why we need to be ever more vigilant and work hard to protect our freedoms and this country.

[ariscus99 1]

I have always wondered, Who declared us right? Just because we think what we do is the best way, don't others have the right to determine how they want to live? Maybe everyone in the world doesn't want a democracy. Why do we feel the need to push ourselves into their lives? (Obvious human injustices excluded, i.e. genocide etc.)

Couldn't agree more. We have our hands in too many places around the world. And yeah, what we have works pretty well for us, but that doesn't mean it will work well everywhere else or that anyone else wants it. I've long wondered what makes us think we should be able to have our military force wherever we want, yet no one can have theirs here(rightfully so, I don't want any other military ever setting foot on US soil). What makes us so special? And how much money do we waste having these bases all over the world? Lets bring our troops home. The ones who are fighting, can keep on fighting until we've accomplished what we need to, but the ones who are just hanging out all over the place, need to come home. My little brother has been station in Great Britain, Germany, Korea, and the middle east, and the only bases where anything was going on was in Qatar and S. Korea because he was right on the DMZ. I just don't get what makes us think we have the right to be anywhere but right here?

[pattygreen 5]

"It's so simple it is ridiculous and the right wing nut jobs still rail against the government - their fear of the government - their fear that the government rules their lives"

---------------------------------------------------------

Excellent posts BJean and CM!

One of the ironies related to the quote above is that is it conservatives who are trying to take away our freedom. They want to regulate our consentual adult sex lives, women's bodies, and scientific progress that could lead to saving lives.

This is what I fear: that a conservative majority would change laws that result in us losing our basic freedoms because of the bible. Separation of church and state has already been discussed so I won't go there -- but you get my point.

This is what I fear: that conservatives are going to remove books and curriculums that offer other points of view besides the white Christian supremacy and that our children will grow up ignorant and be unable to survive in a modern complex society and economy.

This is what I fear: that certain groups that support conservative values like white supremicists, KKK, homophobes, pro-lifers and other racists and religious zealots are going to assault and murder people who aren't like them. Republicans pander to these groups just to get their votes and that lends validation to them.

This is what I fear: that the right wing media stirs up conservatives to the point where they feel violence is justified. It's all just a show to get advertising dollars but uniformed and uneducated people believe it.

Your fears are invalid.

[leroyspuds 0]

Patty, you say my fears are invalid? I'll follow up on my post with some examples:

One of the ironies related to the quote above is that is it conservatives who are trying to take away our freedom. They want to regulate our consentual adult sex lives [not giving equal rights to gays and lesbians and dishonorably discharging patriotic servicemen and women], women's bodies [trying to make it illegal for a woman to choose to terminate a pregnancy], and scientific progress that could lead to saving lives [trying to make stem cell research illegal.]

This is what I fear: that a conservative majority would change laws that result in us losing our basic freedoms because of the bible. Separation of church and state has already been discussed so I won't go there -- but you get my point. [everything in the paragraph above is because of the bible]

This is what I fear: that conservatives are going to remove books and curriculums that offer other points of view besides the white Christian supremacy and that our children will grow up ignorant and be unable to survive in a modern complex society and economy. [books have been removed from Texas schools, hispanic studies are being removed from Arizona schools, creationism is being taught instead of science in some schools]

This is what I fear: that certain groups that support conservative values like white supremicists, KKK, homophobes, pro-lifers and other racists and religious zealots are going to assault and murder people who aren't like them. Republicans pander to these groups just to get their votes and that lends validation to them. [they've assaulted gays and lesbians blacks, hispanics, and native americans; they murdered a liberal talk show host; the tea party has damaged property; pro-lifers have murdered doctors and bombed clinics; they've committed domestic terrorism ala T. McV; religious and anti-government cults are stockpiling weapons illegally and firing on law enforcement officials and have mass murdered their cult members ala Koresh/J. Jones and others]

This is what I fear: that the right wing media stirs up conservatives to the point where they feel violence is justified. It's all just a show to get advertising dollars but uniformed and uneducated people believe it. [just listen to right wing talk radio -- the hate, anger, and white supremacy being expressed, to the point of advocating overthrow of the government and people packing weapons to democratic events to intimidate people ]

Anybody else have more examples?

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Your fears are invalid.

Really? The following scenario is something that has been endorsed and proposed on these boards:

April 18, 2010

Conservatives Want to Go Back to the Golden Age of the 1880s

It took the Republican Party sixty years of dedicated effort to make the word “liberal” radioactive in some parts of the United States. In less than half that time they’ve also done a pretty good job of making “Republican” just as disliked, associated as it is with the politics of wretched excess, fetishizing ignorance, bowing to K street lobbyists, and diaper-wearing-toe-tapping-lesbian-bondage sexual hypocrisy.

So lately conservatives, and especially the most hard right wing of conservatives, have been on the lookout for other terms they can use rather than the dreaded “R” word when describing themselves. Some of them have jumped on board the Glenn Beck self-promotion tour. Considering that it’s an artificial movement generated around a cheap media persona, declaring yourself a supporter of the Tea Party is a bit like being a proud member of a Monkees Fan Club (and you don’t even get to hear “Last Train to Clarksville”), but hey, it plays better than being a part of the George W. Bush legacy.

Other conservatives have jumped in a different direction and declared that they’re really “small government Libertarians.” Only they don’t seem to understand what Libertarian actually means. Take for example this article in which Jacob Hornberger anoints 1880 as the peak of America’s Libertarian golden age.

Let’s consider, say, the year 1880. Here was a society in which people were free to keep everything they earned, because there was no income tax. They were also free to decide what to do with their own money—spend it, save it, invest it, donate it, or whatever. People were generally free to engage in occupations and professions without a license or permit. There were few federal economic regulations and regulatory agencies. No Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, welfare, bailouts, or so-called stimulus plans. No IRS. No Departments of Education, Energy, Agriculture, Commerce, and Labor. No EPA and OSHA. No Federal Reserve. No drug laws. Few systems of public schooling. No immigration controls. No federal minimum-wage laws or price controls. A monetary system based on gold and silver coins rather than paper money. No slavery. No CIA. No FBI. No torture or cruel or unusual punishments. No renditions. No overseas military empire. No military-industrial complex.

As a libertarian, as far as I’m concerned, that’s a society that is pretty darned golden.

Now, doesn't that sound like what some on here would like to go back to? But read on as to what life was REALLY like back then.

Ah, the 1880s. I can hear people getting wistful from here.

A golden age in which people kept all that they earned. Of course, what they earned in the absence of those debilitating minimum wage laws could be nothing more than worthless tokens from the company store. What they earned from twelve hours of work seven days a week could be actually be a bigger debt to the company that sent you into a mine or factory and made you pay for the wear on your tools, the Water you drank, the fuel for your lamp, even the blasting powder you used.

Still, a lifetime of debt wasn’t so bad in a golden age without OSHA and its safety laws, since lifetimes could be quite brief. Mining accidents didn’t kill a piddling 29 men, they killed thousands every year. Over 3 miners out of every 1,000 died on the job each year (twice the rate of Great Britain with it’s freedom-robbing concern for safety). But miners were pikers compared to folks on the railroad. Trainmen fell at a rate that made each year of work roughly equal to the risk of being among the troops on D-Day. Now that’s freedom you can feel (well, briefly). It was an age where any construction project worth its salt could measure progress by body count and factory workers were privileged to know that they really were valued far less than the machines they tended. And death wasn’t all that this golden age had to offer! It was an age when American workers could look forward to the liberation of being disabled for life, and know that they wouldn’t be burdened by the crushing burden of worker’s compensation or government aid.

Any laborer making it to to retirement would find… well, whatever they had laid aside for themselves, assuming they were paid in actual money and that they were cagey enough to hide it somewhere their employer couldn’t “borrow” it. Meaning that a large percentage got to experience the invigorating freedom of starting a second career as a beggar after decades of crippling repetitive work, breathing toxic fumes, and exposure to corrosive chemicals made them unable to continue to hum hi-ho at their old tasks. Well over half of America’s senior citizens basked in the autumnal liberty of living in poverty.

It was a golden age without labor laws in which only 5% of people faced the awful restriction of an 8 hour work day while 3 times that many were blessed with a workday that was 12 hours or longer. Many industries, breweries for example, had a standard workday of 15 hours. And with all the extra freedom of that age, many children were able to experience the blessings of back-breaking labor starting every day by the time they reached the age of 10, with more than a third generating freedom dollars before they turned 15.

Of course, that wasn’t hard since thiswas a golden age of few public schools. Except it wasn’t. Public education was common across the country, even in remote communities. Even the tiniest frontier village rarely went long without a school, many states had organized school districts, and in a good number of areas the ratio of teachers to students was actually higher than in our own socialistic era. Perhaps what Hornberger meant to say was that there were few schools available to minorities. In many areas minorities lived with “compulsory ignorance,” as they were not only excluded from public schools, but discouraged (often violently) from seeking education. That accounts for a literacy rate of less than 40% among African-Americans in 1880. As laws changed and more schools became available for all, that rate grew by more than 30% over the next three decades. However, white literacy remained about the same — not surprising since whites were already suffering from those socialistic public schools well before 1880.

It truly was a golden age. One in which, thanks to that lack of nasty safety requirements and the troublesome health organizations, the average lifespan was all the way up to 40! An age in which, unfettered by the shackles of regulations on clean water and Hitler-like restrictions on sewage, 50,000 Americans died of cholera. An age in which parents could experience the ultimate freedom endowed by watching 1 child in 5 die in infancy, and 1 out of 3 fail to reach adulthood. Those numbers are for white Americans. Minorities experienced even more of the freedom that comes from burying your children.

It truly was a golden age where there were “no immigration controls” as long as, you know, you were white and European. Oh, and wealthy. Otherwise, you were subject to laws like the Chinese Exclusion Act, or regulations that allowed anyone to be denied admission on the basis of poverty. Once you were in, you could love the freedom from Jim Crow laws, and the liberty that came with being denied to right to vote, or the ability to protect yourself from abuse. Of course Hispanic, Black, and Asian-Americans were all stimulated by the freedom that comes from having your home burned, your community ransacked, your wife and daughters raped, your belongings stolen, and your body left to turn as “strange fruit” in trees that sprouted across the country. All without un-American interference by the government. There’s no freedom like the freedom that comes when you aren’t forced to endure a trial by a jury of your peers and can get on with more expedited forms of justice.

It was a golden age when the last bands of Native Americans still struggling along under the illusion that they were free, were invited into the real liberty that is life on the reservation. And an age where they got to see the lands their ancestors had occupied for centuries or tens of centuries handed over for destruction. Imagine the liberty you get from seeing your lands taken away, your children beaten for speaking their own language, your religious practices used as an excuse for slaughter, and your entire culture erased.

A golden age, free from money-grubbing FEMA, where 400 people could die in a snow storm… then 400 more could die in the next. An age when Florida didn’t need no stinking assistance in picking up the thousands who died in hurricanes and Midwestern states laughed off the hundreds who died in tornadoes — all without warning from a communist government weather bureau. An age where dams could be built without concern for any damn fish living in the water, or any damn people living downstream. An age where you were free to inhale the asbestos that wafted from factories and the mercury fumes that steamed from metal refineries. And free to see the interesting effects such exposures had on your offspring.

An age without communist limits on commerce or immoral government tests, where thousands of Americans each year died from tainted food.< /span> Where you didn’t need no stinkin’ license to hand out medicines. An age free from the horrors of the FDA where parents could feel good about using a childrens’ cough remedy laced with opium, cocaine, formaldehyde, and wood alcohol. An age when nobody told us how much lead we could have in our water, or how much soot we could have in our air. An age where the injured and elderly had the God-given right to starve.

It was a golden age of rights for women in which… oh, wait. Sorry. I forgot for a moment that women don’t count when measuring freedom. Good thing, since in 1880 they couldn’t vote, were excluded from many occupations, faced restrictions on their ownership rights, and were often treated as the property of their husbands. Naturally, their reproductive rights consisted of the right to reproduce — or die trying.

Of course, what Hornberger was likely envisioning was the flip side of all this liberty. The freedom of being a rich in a society where those with money enjoyed tremendous advantage. The freedom that factory owners and robber barons enjoyed in treating workers as they wanted, employing private armies to beat or kill those who opposed them, and indulging any whim in the sure knowledge that a large enough bribe could smooth things over.

The good news for Jacob is that it’s not too late. It doesn’t require a time machine and a trip to the 1880s to experience all the joys of this golden age he so longs for. You can reach this land of paradise with a couple of flights and a short boat ride. It’s called Somalia.

The truth is, there are real Libertarians out there, people who place a very high value on individual rights and who believe this government — like most every government — too often interferes with those rights. Of course, actual Libertarians realize that for individual rights to have any meaning, they require the presence of a body that can ensure those rights. They know that freedom can’t be maintained in an absence of information, and that there must be agencies that create the transparency needed for effective individual action and ensure there are consequences to dishonesty. Real advocates of the free market realize that term has no meaning unless the market is free from coercion and the law is not defined by “might makes right.” They know that individual freedoms are incompatible with a system where corporations are treated as super-citizens (unlike those who supported the recent supreme court ruling on this) and that Libertarianism requires that workers be more valued that abstract entities that live only on paper.

The difference between actual Libertarians and Republicans hiding from their tarnished name is quite easy. Actual Libertarians are concerned about the freedom of individuals. Conservatives use Libertarian as a code word meaning “I want to continue to enjoy all the privileges I do now, but I don’t want to share them with you and most of all I don’t want to pay any taxes.”(SO TRUE!!!) Push come to shove, they’re happy to abbreviate that to “Screw freedom. I just don’t want to pay taxes.”

alternet

But to be fair, those who advocate going back to this, do allow a few crumbs to be tossed in the way of a few safety nets. But just a few, mind you.

But more importantly - all the improvements in our lives from this example of life in the 1880's until now have come from the democrats, unions and the creation of the middle class.

Edited May 17, 2010 by Cleo's Mom

[Chris_NJ 9]

This man says it all....

LiveLeak.com - Why I'm A Conservative Republican 2.0

[Cleo's Mom 257]

leroyspuds- I have a few more examples:

Republicans Slowly Removing American Freedoms

Posted on May 9th, 2010 by iwaller

Republicans for years have been slowly taking away Americans’ right to privacy and civil liberties, as they spit on the U.S. Constitution by passing discriminatory laws and giving sweeping surveillance and the right to search any American, at any time, without court order, for all American citizens. The Patriot Act and FISA were just the beginning for Republicans to strip the rights of U.S. Citizens. Now Republicans are attempting to racial profile Americans and remove Americans’ right to U.S. Courts of Law and American’s citizenship.

From Republican George W Bush and Republican Dick Cheney’s Patriot Act and FISA, to Arizona’s punitive approach to immigration by Arizona’s Republican Governor Jan Brewer’s anti-immigration bill to would be Republican Joe Lieberman (who claims he is an Independent) and Republican Mass. Senator Scott Brown’s proposed bill to give the government more power by taking away U. S. Citizenship of Americans and to other Republicans who want to deny Miranda Rights to U.S. Citizens!First Amendment – Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Fourth Amendment – The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Fourteenth Amendment, Section 1 – All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Below are 4 examples of continuing Republicans’ blatant efforts to take away Americans’ constitutionally guaranteed civil liberties:

Point 1: Joe Lieberman and Republican Scott Brown’s new law called the Terrorist Expatriation Act, supported by Republican Sen. John Cornyn and Republican Sen. John Kyl, gives complete constitutional power to the U.S. State Department to determine if any U.S. Citizen is affiliated with a terrorist organization allowing Americans’ citizenship to be removed. It allows the U.S. State Department to treat constitutionally protected American citizenship like an administrative matter. On the surface, fighting terrorism is of great national interest, but overreacting and overreaching by Lieberman and Brown based on the recent successful capture of would be terrorist Faisal Shahzad not only violates the Constitution of the United States, it further chips away at the rights of all Americans. This bill applies to any and all American citizens before due process and before any convictions.

Have Americans noticed each time there is an attempted terrorist attack Republicans rush to take away more freedoms of all Americans. Rather than supporting the efforts of Homeland Security, the CIA, FBI and police agencies, Republicans clearly demonstrate their lack of faith in those who keep America safe.

The irony is, the system worked in capturing Faisal Shahzad! No one was tortured. No one’s civil rights were violated. No one’s privacy was violated. And the suspect is cooperating. Federal, state, and local authorities did their jobs; the public was alert, but did not panic, the public was responsible, and not terrified, no one was killed, no one was hurt, and it took less than three days for the suspect to be captured.

If Republicans conspire to change America because of, in this case, one single failed bomb plot, they are aiding and abetting the enemy by advancing the terrorist’s goals and caving into the fear-mongering Republicans have authored for the past decade.

Point 2: Arizona Republican Gov. Jan Brewer’s punitive anti-immigration law (SB 1070) compels police officers to ask for proof of legal status whenever they have an ill-defined “reasonable suspicion” that someone they have stopped for some other purpose is an illegal alien. This Republican law clearly forces police to use skin color, accent or limited proficiency in English as the basis for ‘suspicion’ and it invites racial profiling. The law compels police to search for undocumented immigrants based on an ill-defined “reasonable suspicion” of illegality. This law not only poisons police relations with immigrant communities, it is an attempt to preempt federal immigration laws, and substantially violates the U.S. Constitution. The privileges and immunities clause of the 14th amendment says, “No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States.”

Then there is Republican Rep. Debbie Riddle of Texas who said “I’m really tired of political correctnessand so are my constituents and I think the folks of Texas are to. The reality is I’m also tired of hyphenated Americans.” What Riddle is really saying is I’m really tired of Hispanic-Americana, Asian-Americana, African-Americana, Jewish-Americana, Gay-Americans. This is a typical Republican response demonstrating white, arrogant racism, in this case against Latinos, which is what the Republican Party stands for, only white Americans.

It is unthinkable that in the 21st century, a Latino or anyone with ‘dark skin’ could be stopped and asked to see his or her papers. Imagine our Latino veterans returning from Iraq or Afghanistan, having fought for our liberties overseas and being asked for their papers to prove they belong in the United States! Undocumented Latinos have joined our armed forces to fight for their adopted country.

Never before in our modern history has an American government purported to give police the power to stop someone because of their appearance (race) and then require the stopped person to prove a negative on the spot, namely, that he or she is not in the US illegally.

Point 3: Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) “I want to stop reading these guys their Miranda Rights”, in response to the recent arrest of Faisal Shahzad’s bombing attempt in New York. Republicans immediately began complaining that even though Shahzad is an American citizen, authorities should deprive him of his Miranda rights. Republican Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) said that Mirandizing Shahzad would be “a serious mistake,” Republican Rep. Peter King (R-NY) said, “Did they Mirandize him? I know he’s an American citizen but still.” Independent (Republican) Sen. Joseph Lieberman (I-CT) suggested that Congress should perhaps create a process to strip “American citizens who choose to become affiliated with foreign terrorists” of their citizenship and Republican Lindsey Graham stated he wholeheartedly agreed with his colleagues and wanted to write legislation that would allow authorities to deprive them of their rights.

Florida Republican Dan Fanelli is advocating racial profiling at Florida and other US Airports. Then there is Republican Rep Peter T. King of New York, the ranking Republican on the House Homeland Security Committee, who said he was troubled by the rush to charge Mr. Shahzad as a civilian. “In these kinds of cases, the first preference should be a military commission because you can get more information,” he said.

As Matt Yglesias notes, “You can’t have a system where a cop comes up to me and says ‘you’re a terrorist, therefore you have no citizenship rights, therefore I’m putting you under arrest and you don’t get any due process and now it’s off to jail with you — no rights, no warning.” “And the whole reason cops Mirandize suspects is that if you don’t, you risk having your evidence thrown out of court. If you gather all the information before Mirandizing, you could be throwing the whole thing into doubt.” Does Graham really want to make all of the United States into the equivalent of a battlefield in Pakistan?

Americans should be mindful that Republicans cannot take rights from one American citizen without risking the rights of every American citizen. Miranda rights apply to everyone in the territory of the US, citizen, foreign resident and visitors, or anyone who resides in the United States. Republicans, as much as they want, cannot legislate away the Miranda rights of anyone charged with a crime. Republicans are under the mistaken impression that Mirandizing a suspect grants special rights, when all it does is inform someone of existing rights.

Interestingly enough, Republicans were silent when the nine white Christian Hutaree militia terrorists had their Miranda rights read. Republicans never advocated throwing out constitutionally guaranteed American rights when Timothy McVeigh reigned down terror in Oklahoma City.

Terrorists have been successfully tried in U.S. Courts: Richard Reid, Zacharias Moussaui, Ramzi Yousef, Omar Abdel Rahman, Bryant Neal Vinas, Mohammed Jabarah, Shahawar Matin Siraj, Mohammed Junaid Babar, Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols. The Military tribunals Republicans continue to push over U.S. Legal jurisprudence have only tried 3 people and 2 have already been freed from prison; David Hicks served 9 months and released Salim Ahmed Hamden now free, and Ali Al Bahlul who is still in prison. This is what Lieberman and Brown are supporting!

A Bush Administration document in 2008 cites “319 convictions or guilty pleas in terrorism or terrorism-related cases arising from investigations conducted primarily after September 11, 2001.” Between those convicted of terrorism-related crimes (150) and individuals with ties to international terrorism convicted of other crimes (like obstruction or perjury–the total is 240), 390 people have been sent to prison using our U.S. Justice and civilian courts. The list of terrorists convicted itself is interesting in its own right.

When Republicans seek such radical change to America’s legal judicial system and from the letter and spirit of the U.S. Constitution, they betray upholding their oath to defend and protect that great document and the rights it affords all American citizens.

Point 4: Republican George W Bush and Dick Cheney passed the Patriot Act into law on October 24, 2001 just 45 days after the September 11 attacks, The USA PATRIOT Act broadly expanded law enforcement’s surveillance and investigative powers and represents one of the most significant threats to civil liberties, privacy and democratic traditions in U.S. history. This act gave sweeping search and surveillance authority to domestic law enforcement and foreign intelligence agencies and eliminated the checks and balances which had been the difference between the free world and the suppressed. This act continues to threaten Americans’ fundamental freedoms by giving the government the power to access medical records, banking, financial and tax records; information about the books one buys, it authorized the use of “sneak and peek” search warrants giving law enforcement the power to break down any American’s door at any time of the day or night and conduct unconstitutional searches and seizures; searching one’s home or business in secret without telling the owner. It allowed wiretaps for any suspected violation of the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act, and offers possibilities for the Government to spy on and monitor any computer user’s searches, e-mails and in fact record every stroke on any computer. ALL of the provisions of the Patriot Act do not require a court order.

The Patriot Act eliminated Government accountabilitybutfreely eliminated privacy rights for individual Americans. It created more secrecy for Government activities, making it extremely difficult to know about actions the Government are taking.

Then there is the Republican sponsored Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) which allows for increased surveillance of phone calls of law abiding Americans. FISA repealed legislation enacted in the 1970s that prohibited this type of pervasive surveillance of Americans.

The one common denominator of Republicans is simply is a grasp for power by the government, particularly over the judicial branch represents “the looming sacrifice of civil liberties at the altar of national security.”

The Republican agenda for American citizens is to continue to whittle away at the very freedoms guaranteed under the U.S. Constitution. They use ‘suspected’ terrorism as the mechanism for taking away these rights. At every opportunity Republicans continue to encroach on the privacy and free speech, challenge habeas corpus and introduce and eliminate lawful protections established 200 years ago, all under the guise of ‘security’.

In Conclusion:

All the aforementioned points clearly violate the U.S. Constitution:

• They violate the Fourth Amendment, which says the government cannot conduct a search without obtaining a warrant and showing probable cause to believe that the person has committed or will commit a crime;
  
• They violate the Fourth Amendment by failing to provide notice (even after the fact) to persons whose privacy has been compromised. (Notice is also a key element of due process, which is guaranteed by the Fifth Amendment);
  
• They violate the First Amendment’s guarantee of free speech by prohibiting the recipients of search orders from telling others about those orders, even where there is no real need for secrecy and they violate the First Amendment by effectively authorizing the FBI to launch investigations of American citizens in part for exercising their freedom of speech;
  
• The violate the Fourteenth Amendment depriving American citizens due process of law and their right to equal protection under U.S. law.
  

Republican Sen. Senator Christopher S. Bond recently stated “We’ve got to be far less interested in protecting the privacy rights of these terrorists than in collecting information that may lead us to details of broader schemes to carry out attacks in the United States,”

When Republican Eric Cantor recently bloviated about the Obama Administration being complacent amid warning signs about terrorism after another failed attempt, Americans must remember this comes from a Republican under the Bush/Cheney Administration which was so incomprehensibly incompetent as to allow the worst ever terrorist attack on American soil even after receiving at least 10 warnings about the foreboding 9/11 attacks that Pres. George W. Bush ignored and then lied about.

These are Republicans keeping America safe! They are Republicans who want America’s vote.

Republicans cannot support the U. S. Constitution only when it suits their political views and pick and choose from those Amendments, cafeteria-style, to support their agenda of taking away freedoms from all Americans, regardless of political persuasion.

During all of the aforementioned, teabaggers have been silent! For a group ready to overthrown their own United States Government and remain silent on the most basic freedoms of the U.S. Constitution, only gives credit their only failed complaint is simply about race. “Don’t tread on me”, “My gun is unloaded, this time”, Socialism, Communist, and all their other protests have no legitimate merit as they continue to carry the Water for Republicans in helping to take away the rights of a free society. When Republicans and their Tea Party shout “return to the Constitution” they do not really mean it, which is another reason they have no credibility. What they really mean is, get another ‘white Republican man’ in the White House!

America is in serious risk of crossing a line that cannot easily be undone. Republicans are about to hammer the final nail into the coffins of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. If hard working, taxpaying Americans do not speak out, if we exchange our liberties for the illusion of security, then we forfeit the very ideals that make America great. The concepts of individual liberty and equal justice that this nation was founded upon will be forsaken and we will join the ranks of dozens of other nations whose freedoms have been forfeited for the sake of the power and the forfeit of freedom and democracy.

As Benjamin Franklin said: “Those who would surrender their liberty for security deserve neither”.

Arbitrary government is what men have been sacrificing to overcome for the past millennium. Republicans are a throwback to the despotism of an earlier age; they do not serve the interest of liberty, justice and freedom of the American people.

America for Purchase

Edited May 17, 2010 by Cleo's Mom

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Why I Am A Liberal

by HurricaneDean (writer), September 09, 2008

A Liberal Responds to Right Wing Opinions.

Recently, I read an opinion article on the online newspaper, Broowaha.com. The article claimed that if progressive liberals ruled America they would, "ban religions, our lifestyles, morals, and recourse for action...they would have the power to control what you read, what you watch, what you eat and consume. A giant, liberal government would make sure that books of discourse be conveniently unavailable, pornography continuously pumped into your house to keep you dumb...so dumbed down they forgot what individuality and "free thinking" is. Alas there would also be no church to attend. The government would have you worship the planet and those that provide you with everything. There would be no choices in religion that we enjoy today." The author goes on and on with his liberal apocalyptic worldview.

Of course, any first year political science student would know that the opinion this author has formed is one that is completely antithetical to the political philosophy to liberalism and a liberal government. Least we forget, our Founding Fathers were liberal democrats. (See my previous article, If George Washington Ran for President in 2008.) The text book definition for those, including myself, that believe in the political philosophy of liberalism is: "a political philosophy based on belief in progress, the essential goodness of man, and the AUTONOMY of the INDIVIDUAL and standing for the PROTECTION of POLITICAL and CIVIL LIBERTIES."

Liberals Celebrate the "autonomy of the individual." That is why we openly accept people regardless of their race, religion and sexual orientation. Regardless of whether they are a capitalist or a socialist. Regardless of their political beliefs. We may not always agree, but the very notion that "books of discourse be conveniently unavailable" is a slap in the face to the liberal tenet in "standing for the protection of political and civil liberties." The image this Broowaha.com author attempts to draw is in direct contradiction to liberalism. Rather, the author attempts to creates a picture best represented as a strange hybrid of a communist and fascist dictatorship.

The fact is, progressive liberals dislike leftist communist dictatorships every bit as much as radical right wing theocracies, monocracies and fascist dictatorships. Because all these forms of government deny (again) "the autonomy of the individual" and fail to protect the political and civil liberties of the populace. The Broowaha.com article seems to falsely equate liberalism with socialism and then leaps to some strange repressive leftist world (like a perverted communist dictatorship) that denies political and civil liberties. The opinion piece seems to deliberately paint a false picture of progressive liberals in classic Orwellian fashion.

Of course, people have a right to their own opinions, just not to their own facts. To some, opinions are more like beliefs and impressions, without any actual knowledge. Under their logic, I could claim that it is my opinion that John McCain is a closet homosexual that has lived his entire life on the down-low with Larry Craig, without producing a single fact to support such a claim. All I would need to do is claim, "This is just my opinion," and I would be free and clear of all moral implications. However, the fact is, unless I had some actual knowledge of such a claim, my opinion would be nothing more than either ignorance or slander.

Actually, that was a funny example, but not the best analogy of this whole fact verse opinion issue. If I said an apple tree produced pears, you would obviously see my mistake. Apple trees produce apples. Yet, the Broowaha.com article claimed a liberal government would produce repression of individual, political, and civil liberties. The author is thus claiming it is his opinion apple trees will produce pears. Therefore, the only conclusion one can draw is that the author is either ignorant of apples and pears, or is slandering the fruit.< /p>

Over and over again, we hear Republicans warning us that liberals (like myself) are socialists that are attempting some grand scheme similar to the most oppressive communist dictatorships. Over and over again we hear the right wing claim liberals will impose a big government that will ban their religious beliefs. I find these comments to be offensive and a complete mischaracterization of progressive liberal beliefs.

For example, every progressive liberal in the U.S. I know (and I have known many working as an environmental and human rights activist for over twenty years) believes in some balance between socialism and capitalism. Not the fabricated black and white picture most right wingers like to paint. For seven years, I was a partner in two organic cotton and hemp clothing companies. Certainly one must say that I am one of the many capitalist that supports a balance between capitalism and socialism. Even communist China is coming around to that understand. And remember, COMMUNISM is NOT LIBERALISM. Communism denies "the autonomy of the individual." and does not, "stand for the protection of political and civil liberties."

Most progressive liberals are of the opinion that a fine balance between socialism and capitalism will lead to a more perfect union. For example, the U.S. ranks 37th in the world in health care because we have a capitalist based health care system. That means that 36 other nations, using some form of a socialist based health care system, are doing a better job of providing care to their citizens. Let alone protecting their general welfare. In the U.S., instead of having doctors decide who gets health care, we have corporate bureaucrats sitting in their ivory insurance towers making health care decisions for us. There should be no surprise that the administrative costs in a socialist health care system averages around 5%, while under a capitalist health care system it is around 20 to 25% (depending on your Big Brother insurance company.) If you take that much money out of the system for corporate administrators then obviously health care is going to deteriorate. And that is what we have today; a deteriorating capitalist styled health care system in which a small percentage of our populace are getting fabulously rich while ever growing millions of Americans are being denied health care. The facts are on the side of socialized medicine and that is why progressive liberals support it.

One only needs to look at the standard of living and human development index to see why we are ranked 37th in the world. The U.S. ranks 4th in GDP, yet it is 92nd in distribution of wealth. Certainly, 5% of our population lives better off than anywhere else in the world. Unfortunately, 25% of our population lives worse off than the average citizen livinig in countries like Greece. The U.S. now has distribution of wealth ratio simular to nations like Guinea-Bissau, Dominican Republic and Madagascar. For those that believe in a completely capitalist system with no social balances these facts are perfectly acceptable. However, to progressive liberal Americans like myself, we know we can do better. After all, we liberals actually believe in, "progress and the essential goodness of man."

I would additionally challenge anyone to find a main stream liberal organization promoting the abolition of religion, books, free speech or capitalism. I have been a member of a few secular organizations over the years like, People for the American Way and the Secular Society. Just because I do not wish my taxes to propagate other folks myths and false gods, that does not mean I wish to ban religion. In the U.S., I've never met an atheist that supported the banning of religion. Although, I am sure there are some that believe in this crazy idea, it certainly is not an opinion supported by any main stream secular organization. And, more important, the thought of banning religion would be again antithetical to liberalism.

In an ironic twist, on the same week this opinion piece was posted, some bloggers attempted to spread a false banned book list from Republican Vice President candidate Sarah Palin. Apparently, the latest reports on this unfolding issue is that the book list is bogus, but then Mayor Sarah Palin did inquire about banning books at the local library. However, the Liberian pushed back and was subsequently fired by then Mayor Palin. A community outcry eventually reinstated the local librarian.

It is reasonable that a nation as great as ours would have vastly differing opinions. Clearly, in the liberal democracy created by our Founding Fathers, it is perfectly acceptable to express opposing opinions. I suspect the debate over the virtues of socialism and capitalism will continue well past my existence. Even Republicans support socializing capitalism when it fails. One only need to look at the recent sub-prime crises and this weeks announcement of another government bailout of Fanny May and Freddy Mac. What the proper balance of these socialism and capitalism looks like will always be a matter of opinion. However, whether John McCain is gay or not, or an apple tree produces pears, is really a matter of fact. Just like the definition of liberalism. Had the author of this Broowaha.com article stated that if the U.S. elected a communist government, it would ban religion, free speech, and do away with capitalism, we would all nod our heads understandingly. That is what communist dictatorships do. However, liberals, like our Founding Fathers, would never do that. The Broowaha.com article was every bit an insult to our Founding Fathers as it was to modern progressive liberals like myself.

After reading the article, I was prompted to respond. Much of the above thoughts come out in my comments to the author. I find myself asking, was this author completely ignorant in what liberals believe? Or, was this author intentionally misleading his readers? Was he intentionally mischaracterizing liberal philosophy in order to create a false evil distortion of liberals? To demonize his political opponents in order to create doubt and fear in those that do not actually know the meaning of words like liberal and conservative? And if the later is actually true, would that not be oh so ironic? The guy that claims morality would go down the drain if we elected a liberal, was intentionally lying to you. Intentionally telling a string of falsehoods. I may be a liberal secular, humanist now, but I was raised a born again Christian. And I do remember, "Thou Shall Not Lie," is still one of the Ten Commandments. I am a liberal because I am guided by our Founding Fathers, reason, and the pursuit of truth. But, that is just my opinion.

Dean Walker

[tdslf1 0]

Leroy,

Your fears are well founded. I have those as well because of the following.

They FEAR the UNKNOWN. Something different, foreign scares people, left and right. Despite the fact that in order to grow you have change in this ever changing world. People heard the word "CHANGE" and lost their mind on the right.

I think Fear drives them the most. Look at how they lost their mind and still are losing their minds over Obama, a black man. Some of them are scared of him and disguise it by attacking his policies. They may have a little objection, but to this extent? There is a wack job waiting to take his shot, trust. They will always live in this fear. They are comfortable with the ignorance of no change. Look how many want to keep doing the same thing Bush did, because its comfortable, even though our world and our challenges have changed?

The bible is a story. For lack of better wording, these stories are centuries old. Some stories can be applied to today but I refuse to believe that they all fully encompass present day circumstances. I personally don't follow the bible to that extent. I take a lesson and applied to current circumstance how I think God would want me to.

When I hear one of the religious right speak, this is how I feel. Don't try to force your love of God onto me. I have love but I have my love. I personally think God wants me to love him, how I am capable, not how the RR think I should be capable. Why? Your love of God is not mine. Not better, just different. Keep yours to explain your life and I will do the same. This force is what is scary.

That is why it may be scary for some to see people fully invest in biblical teachings. It is scary to see people judge others as killers when women want to have abortions. No one has that right to judge. And that dude who killed Tiller? That was crazy and scary. Who lets their beliefs take them to that point?

On my favorite comedy show, they brushed the religious talk off as though, one of these wingnuts had never attacked in the name of religion. The people in Muslim countries talk crazy and do horrendous stuff. What makes these religious nutjobs any better than the Muslim crackpots? You think American people are incapable of committing violence against other Americans? Tim McV? It has been done and it can get worse. The UNKNOWN about crackpots and what religion can and will drive people to do is scary to us who could not conceive of doing things in the name of religion. I can't see it for me anyway.

Tea baggers make it no better with their over the top signs about death to Obama and such. They make it impossible to want to hear them even though they may be not be off, but crazy talk leads to crazy action when people don't get their way. Crazy and disheartning.

Edited May 18, 2010 by tdslf1