Conservative VS Liberal

[Cleo's Mom 257]

I told the 7-11 guy I thought they showed it on CNN the other day. He said"anyone can counterfeit one to show on tv", your right Cleosmom ,but I would guess Bushs is counterfeit, how do we know his is real?(by the way, I live in Fort Allen, the 7-11 is the one on rt. 136).

I'm glad you brought up bush's legitimacy. Just for a moment imagine this scenario:

2008 elections: Mccain gets more votes than Obama but it comes down to one state, let's say Illinois, where Obama's brother is governor. And a lawsuit allows the supreme court to decide the election. It's a liberal supreme court. They give it to Obama. 5-4.

Then 9 months after Obama takes office, Al-Qaeda attacks the world trade center while he reads "My Pet Goat" to a group of children in Chicago. Vice President Biden is hiding in a bunker.

As a result of this attack, he then invades a country that didn't attack us. Let's say Syria. And he does it with lies about WMD's. But he uses fear about the attack to get congress to go along. And the democrats say that if you don't go along, then you are with the terrorists. Nothing he predicted about this war, from the length, to the cost, to the reason for it was right. And 4000+ soldiers die.

He then expands welfare, food stamps, and all government subsidies to the poor and expands medicare drug plan and takes a surplus and turns it into a deficit because none of it is funded.

CAN YOU EVEN BEGIN TO IMAGINE WHAT THE NUT-TEAS, RIGHT WING EXTREMISTS AND REPUBLICANS WOULD DO WITH THE ABOVE SCENARIO? AND YET WE ALLOWED ALL OF THIS UNDER BUSH AND IT'S OBAMA WHO IS QUESTIONED ABOUT BEING A LEGITMATE PRESIDENT? :biggrin:

GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!!

[tdslf1 0]

You gotta love the anti-american rhetoric about Obama. Selective memory is great amongst them.

[pattygreen 5]

So I guess if your population numbers are estimates(guesses)then the "each citizens share" is also a made up, guess, I mean estimate. Again, give true facts, not guesses, estimates or some figure you come up with in your head. If you dont know the exact number of people how do you know the exact amount, share of the citizens? Again what is your answer to stimulating the economy?

Even our own government officials don't have an "exact" count of the people who live in this country, yet you expect me to come up with one? All anyone can go on is an estimate of how many people live here. It's a round about figure taken from the last census. Always has been, cause that's all we have to go on. Therefore, taking that number and dividing it by how much debt we are in gives the approx. amount each person would owe. When it's about $41,000., who cares if it's off a dollar or two? Get real! The point is this: It's unsustainable!

My answer for stimulating the economy is for the government to do NOTHING!!!! We have been in a down turn before, and they did nothing and the people once again brought themselves out of it. A recession in this country is still far better than a regular day in any other country. Be thankful for what we have. Try living somewhere else and see if living through a recession in America is better. Is there any question as to why people from everywhere in the world want to immigrate into this country?

Spending us into oblivion is not the answer. That only has to paid back, and the interest alone on the loans to get that money is unsustainable for us. Take a look at the list of Government waste that I posted and go through it. That's a start. Start there and eliminate all of that, and then we can start working on the salaries of government employees and their pension plans. Let's move to that next. Corporate welfare, let's get rid of that. Why should the people in this contry have to pay for portions of someone elses business? Then how about all the programs that enable the people to become dependent on the government. Why should I have to give up to $8,000. towards someone elses home purchase? Or towards a car? Why should I have to pay for somebody elses HC or rent? And the list goes on.

[pattygreen 5]

I have a serious question for you, other than listening to Hannity, Beck talking about it every hour of every day, how does the deficit affect your everyday life. Weve pretty much always had a deficit, 2 trill, 8 trill, does it really matter, you act like your paying it all by yourself. Now Im not saying its a good thing but I dont know how you preaching about it is going to make it better, it is what it is. Dont tell me about my kids, kids, kids, kids, kids, kids, kids, great grandkids will be paying for it because theyll always be a deficit. And what is your answer to solving the issue, dont tell me "quit spending, I save when in crisis", people spending is what will, and is, stimulating the economy, not saving every penny! lets face it the economy is picking up, Im busier than Ive been in probably 3 years, I see it every day, people are starting to spend because of "consumer confidence" created by the stimulus. Again, Quit preaching and give logical answers. Keep running your mouth about polls, the poll results(which where always in your favor during election really worked in your favor. You can have your poll results, we'll take another landslide next election!

To begin with, the twelve regional Federal Reserve Banks are private institutions operating collectively in a quasi-governmental capacity. When the government spends more than it receives in tax revenue, it experiences a budget deficit. To make up this shortfall, it issues new debt. This takes the form of treasuries that are sold on the open market. When there is not sufficient interest in the open market to buy up the required number of treasuries, the government will turn to the Federal Reserve, otherwise known as the "lender of the last resort".

When the government "borrows" from the Federal Reserve, both the treasuries and the money are literally created out of thin air. These newly acquired government securities increase the assets of the Federal Reserve Bank. This enables it to lend out many times that amount through the fractional reserve banking system. The process, known as "monetizing the debt", is inflationary.

For example, let us assume that the legislated reserve ratio is 10% and the government requires US$10 billion from the Federal Reserve to cover a shortfall. The government creates US$10 billion in government bonds to give to the Federal Reserve who issues US$10 billion in newly created money to the government. Interest payments on these bonds are paid for by tax revenue and/or additional deficit spending. The Federal Reserve may now legally lend out US$100 billion.

This credit expansion as a direct result of the U.S. government borrowing from the Federal Reserve dilutes the value of all outstanding currency. When the value of the dollar goes down, prices go up. In effect, it is theft from everyone who holds U.S. currency because they can now buy less with it today than they could have before. (By Mike Hewitt)

So, you see, everytime the government borrows money to pay for all their wonderful programs and "needs", it increases the cost to the consumer enumerously. Why do you think a jar of Hellman's mayo is $4.49?:mad2:This is how the deficit effects everyone. Not just my every day life.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Whatever the stimulus contributed to the deficit, it was worth it and the right thing to do. Thankfully, we have brains back in the White House and someone not afraid to tackle the tough problems.

Anyway, without the stimulus the umemployment would be around 15%. That's millions more not paying taxes, millions more getting unemployment, food stamps and many other government aids. All of this lost revenue and increased demand for programs COSTS the government a great deal of money. That INCREASES the deficit.

On the other hand, the best way to reduce the deficit is with a healthy economy and that's what Pres. Obama is doing with his economic programs and financial reform.

And BTW, the CBO projected that the deficit for the current year is $1.5 trillion while next year it should be about $1.34 trillion. So it is going down.

Add to that that much of the TARP (bailout) money has been paid back and has ended up costing the government less than than expected. Around $117 billion, even though the original bailout was around $700 billion.

And GM has paid back it's government "bailout" 5 years ahead of schedule, with interest.

All of this is good economic news, but some just like to keep yapping about the same old, same old. :biggrin:

[BJean 16]

As for the birthers, during the campaign when people questioned his citizenry, Obama's people supplied his birth certificate. But even with the evidence smacking them in the face, they still claim he is not a citizen of the U.S. These people are idiots - nut balls - numbskulls with their own policital agenda. Why in the world anyone is still paying any attention to them at all is the true mystery!!

[BJean 16]

cleo's your recap of the Bush election and his subsequent behavior as president is relevant when the right wing behaves as if Obama is selling us down the river. They seem to have loved it when Bush actually did sell us down the river. They loved that rich white boy who didn't show up for his military duty, who crashed and burned in the oil business, who was a miserable governor and who is obviously a selfish twit, ran this country.

And knowning that, why is it surprising that they dislike a man who is well educated, cares about those who are not wealthy, adept at handling foeign affairs, who actually shows up to work and tells his fellow Americans what is going on and what he has planned for this country, and who is actually trying to fix the things that are wrong for Americans?

As for the election, when the governor of Florida, Jeb Bush, participated in the scam of the election of his brother, I lived there then and if you had any idea how pervasive the corruption was on a precinct by precinct basis there, you'd probably be shocked. And it didn't just happen in Florida. I have personal knowledge of similar corruption in the St. Louis area. Where else they had their goons in place to keep Democratic votes from being counted I have no idea. But I have a pretty good guess.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

[Cleo's Mom 257]

In the continuing saga of "follow the money" to the nut-teas I offer the following:

Tea party to Stalin: thanks!

Yashia Levine at

Alternet:

"The tea party movement's dirty little secret is that its chief financial backers owe their family fortune to the granddaddy of all their hatred: Stalin's godless empire of the U.S.S.R.

"The secretive oil billionaires of the Koch family, the main supporters of the right-wing groups that orchestrated the tea party movement, would not have the means to bankroll their favorite causes had it not been for the pile of money the family made working for the Bolsheviks in the late 1920s and early 1930s, building refineries, training Communist engineers and laying down the foundation of Soviet oil infrastructure.

"The comrades were good to the Kochs. Today Koch Industries has grown into the second-largest private company in America."

So, who's the communist now? :eek:

Add this to the money from Massey coal mine CEO who contributed to the nut-teas.

[BJean 16]

As for the cartoon, that's why they have such little credibility. The fact that they do not piss and moan about the same exact problems during a Republican administration makes it pretty obvious that it isn't really about taxes and big government. It's about things like abortion, gun control, subsidies for the wealthy and seapration of church and state.

As for your second post, if the Tea baggers were honest and interested enough to research the financial backers of their movement, I don't think they would be surprised or care. They're just glad that someone is paying for their signs and organizing their protest rallies. They are some of the most transparent right wing extremists on the planet.

I've actually heard some regular people say they agree with some of the ideology of the tea baggers. Well sure, who isn't for lower taxes, fewer government programs, etc.? But that isn't what it's REALLY about and anyone who thinks it is, is just not looking hard enough behind the scenes.

And we should all thank Cleo's for keeping it real!!

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Thanks, BJean :eek:

[BJean 16]

You betcha!

I think you're the greatest, Cleo's! *wink, grin*

[Cleo's Mom 257]

You betcha!

I think you're the greatest, Cleo's! *wink, grin*

Back at ya. :eek:

[loserbob 11]

Even our own government officials don't have an "exact" count of the people who live in this country, yet you expect me to come up with one? All anyone can go on is an estimate of how many people live here. It's a round about figure taken from the last census. Always has been, cause that's all we have to go on. Therefore, taking that number and dividing it by how much debt we are in gives the approx. amount each person would owe. When it's about $41,000., who cares if it's off a dollar or two? Get real! The point is this: It's unsustainable!

My answer for stimulating the economy is for the government to do NOTHING!!!! We have been in a down turn before, and they did nothing and the people once again brought themselves out of it. A recession in this country is still far better than a regular day in any other country. Be thankful for what we have. Try living somewhere else and see if living through a recession in America is better. Is there any question as to why people from everywhere in the world want to immigrate into this country?

Spending us into oblivion is not the answer. That only has to paid back, and the interest alone on the loans to get that money is unsustainable for us. Take a look at the list of Government waste that I posted and go through it. That's a start. Start there and eliminate all of that, and then we can start working on the salaries of government employees and their pension plans. Let's move to that next. Corporate welfare, let's get rid of that. Why should the people in this contry have to pay for portions of someone elses business? Then how about all the programs that enable the people to become dependent on the government. Why should I have to give up to $8,000. towards someone elses home purchase? Or towards a car? Why should I have to pay for somebody elses HC or rent? And the list goes on.

So, let me get this straight, you say the government should do nothing and we should reduce peoples incomes. Im sorry I asked for your answer.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Looks like the "moral" republicans are up to their old tricks:

The Republican National Committee is continuing to send out a misleading fundraising mailer labeled "Census Document," just weeks after Congress passed a law aimed at banning such mailers.

In response, the Democratic member of Congress behind the new law slammed the RNC for "trying to make a buck on the Census." But Michael Steele and co. are claiming the law doesn't cover their mailer.

An RNC mailer obtained by TPMmuckraker bears the words "Census Document" and, in all caps, "DO NOT DESTROY/OFFICIAL DOCUMENT," on the outside of the envelope. In smaller letters, it says: "This is not a U.S. government document." The new law requires, among other things, that such mailers state the name and address of the sender on the outside of the envelope -- something the RNC's missive doesn't appear to do. Inside, a letter from RNC chair Michael Steele, dated April 12, asks recipients to fill out a questionnaire about their political views, and solicits donations of as much as $500 or more.

from: tpmmuckraker

Samples to follow.

Edited April 26, 2010 by Cleo's Mom