Conservative VS Liberal

[BJean 16]

However I do have to admit, some of his points I do agree with(very few,1).

I guess I missed it. Who're you talking about Bob?

[Devana 0]

All this leaves me speechless (for periods of time). I'm usually pretty mouthy and can match wits with the best of them, but this right wing hysteria is foreign territory.

How can you guys stand it? I actually get nauseous reading some of the hateful right wing tripe.

And "hysteria" is the most accurate description I can think of for it.

[loserbob 11]

However I do have to admit, some of his points I do agree with(very few,1).

I guess I missed it. Who're you talking about Bob?

The general(I think general)that Patty posted about. I was referring to a few people who do take handouts because they dont want to work, not the people who need them because they cant work. There are people who put so much time into "working the system", if they would just spend that time trying to better themselves, find the "American Dream." Everyone would benefit!

[loserbob 11]

No, I don't read that right-wing, republican rag sheet, but could you post the link or article? Sounds interesting (and typical of the hypocrites).

I looked for it before I posted it. I saved it for my wife to read after work and now I cant find it. I believe it was probably Thursday or Friday of last week. Im sure its in the USA today also. My wife asks me why I read it also, I love page 2 of section A(front page). I love the international section. I also like to hear the distorted views of the fanatical, war mongering, scaremongering, lunatics on the right!

[loserbob 11]

However I do have to admit, some of his points I do agree with(very few,1).

I guess I missed it. Who're you talking about Bob?

OK, the guy I was talking about wasnt a general, he was the 63 year old, Im sure Teabagger!

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Cleosmom, Did you read the article in the Trib the other day about John Deere, AT&T, Caterpillar canceling meeting about healthcare cost concerns? They all cried about how they where going to lose millions of dollars because of healthcare. Obama said he didnt know where they were getting these numbers from so he set up a meeting to discuss the numbers, but they canceled the meeting because they suddenly realized they would actually save money "because of the healthcare reform"!!!(After running theyre mouths, getting everyone to believe they where right, theyre right alright, right-wing nut jobs. Patty, before you ask what they would gain from making this story up, big corporation, you tell me why it would benefit them to make Obama look bad!

One more thing, I told my wife today about how the Teabaggers claim they dont support either party, I havent seen one democrat speak at a "gathering of the nuts"!! I believe it was you who said they where disgruntled reps, I agree 100%.

I couldn't find much about them cancelling the meeting but I did find the following:

In a regulatory filing, AT&T estimated $1 billion in costs because the company won't be able to deduct a subsidy it receives from the federal government for healthcare costs for retirees.

I had to read it several times. The government gives AT&T a subsidy and they are crying because they can no longer deduct it? Talk about double dipping and hitting the taxpayers twice. They were able to deduct the taxpayer's subsidy from the taxes they owe? Unbelievable!! If someone on welfare was able to do that, imagine the outrage. But of course it's corporate welfare so that's okay. Usually when someone gets a subsidy from any source that's counted as some type of income not a deduction. But this is corporate america and they get what they want.

[BJean 16]

Devana they're in a frenzy. An hysterical frenzy. They don't make sense. They just glom onto anything they think might sound like a legitimate reason to protest - never mind that it doesn't make any sense. The right wing extremists think up the things that they'll yell about next and then they sell it to the tea baggers and anyone else who will listen. Actually there's big money behind it. People like Rupert Murdoch and that goon from Oklahoma - an oil man - the one who concocted the "swift boat" campaign to smear John Kerry with. Can't think of his name, but he provides a lot of the money behind the hype.

It's hard to read and listen to. But here at LBT and at other websites the good thing about it is that it gives sane people a chance to point out the lunacy and disinformation and the logic and knowledge that is missing from their arguments. So there's that.

[BJean 16]

Oh yeah Bob. He was the one I was talking about too. The little diatribe of his that patty decided to post one on top of the other for about 5 pages.

[tdslf1 0]

Hey all,

People who made under 250k got a tax break. Could have chose between 25 different ones as far as I can read.

When did the government raise the taxes on us? They didn't, but the baggers will protest that because their messia, retard Palin said so.

If the current polls say that the baggers are made up of wealthy educated white guys, does that mean that the elderly people who attend rally's don't need our socialist programs like SS, medicare or healthcare that is affordable?

I say lets cut all those people off those programs like that for people who say they don't need socialized programs. Lets see how far we get by eliminating those things baggers hate in their lives and applying the money to the deficit. But keep in mind, when you ask one of them what should we cut out of the deficit, none of them have a clue.

Didn't Hannity hater get yanked from a rally in cin city? Wasn't he the one that called people anti-american when they critisized Bush 2?

The clearest case of ethics violation by a moron on tv besides lettermans fiasco. Yet here is a man who calls Obama a terrorist nightly and un-american. Hypocrite personified. Yet yahoos watch his crap nightly, religiously.

Didn't Beck the beserk say that if anyone believed what he said on his program without fact checking was an idiot?

Could not have said it better myself and yet..his word is gospel to the likes of PG.

Same age as Palin but smarter.

Edited April 19, 2010 by tdslf1

[Cleo's Mom 257]

E.J. Dionne Jr.: Tea party populism

Why is so much energy being devoted to a sliver of opinion?

Monday, April 19, 2010

WASHINGTON -- The tea party is nothing new, it represents a relatively small minority of Americans on the right end of politics, and it will not determine the outcome of the 2010 elections.

In fact, both parties stand to lose if they accept the laughable notion that this media-created protest movement is the voice of true populism. Democrats will spend their time chasing votes they will never win. Republicans will turn their party into an angry and narrow redoubt with no hope of building a durable majority.

The news media's incessant focus on the tea party is creating a badly distorted picture of what most Americans think and warping our policy debates. The New York Times and CBS News thus performed a public service last week by conducting a careful study of just who is in the tea party movement.

Their findings suggest that the tea party is essentially the reappearance of an old anti-government far right that has always been with us and accounts for about one-fifth of the country. The Times reported that tea party supporters "tend to be Republican, white, male, married and older than 45." This is the populism of the privileged.

Tea party backers are far more likely than others to describe their views as "very conservative," and are decidedly more inclined than the rest of us to believe that too much is made of the problems facing black people.

This last finding points to a disconcerting fact that white Americans are reluctant to discuss: Part of the anger at President Barack Obama is driven by the color of his skin.

Saying this invites immediate denunciations from defenders of those who bring guns to rallies, threaten violence to "take our country back" and mouth old slogans about states' rights and the Confederacy. So let's be clear: Opposition to the president is driven by many factors that have nothing to do with race. But race is definitely part of what's going on.

Here is the poll question in its entirety: "In recent years, do you think too much has been made of the problems facing black people, too little has been made, or is it about right?"

Twenty-eight percent of all Americans -- and just 19 percent of those who are not tea party loyalists -- answered "too much." But among tea party supporters, the figure is 52 percent. Tea partiers are almost three times as likely as the rest of us to say that too much attention is being paid to the problems of blacks.

Among all Americans, 11 percent say that the Obama administration's policies favor blacks over whites; 25 percent of tea party sympathizers say this. Again, more is going on here than race, but race is in the picture.

Tea party enthusiasts also consistently side with the better-off against the poor, putting them at odds with most Americans. The poll found that "providingwhile only 38 percent of all Americans said that government benefits to poor people encourages them to remain poor," 73 percent of tea party partisans believed this. Among all Americans, 50 percent agreed that "the federal government should spend money to create jobs, even if it means increasing the budget deficit." Only 17 percent of tea party supporters took this view.

As for raising taxes on households making more than $250,000 a year to provide health care for the uninsured, 54 percent of Americans favored doing so, as against only 17 percent of tea party backers.

And this must be the first "populist" movement ever driven by a television network: 63 percent of the tea party folks say they most watch Fox News "for information about politics and current events," compared with 23 percent of the country as a whole.

The right-wing fifth of the American population deserves news coverage like everyone else, and Fox is perfectly free to pander to its own viewers.

What makes no sense is allowing a sliver of opinion out of touch with, yes, the "real" America to dominate the media and distort our political discourse.

Democrats face problems not from right-wingers who have never voted for them, but from a lack of energy among their own supporters and from dispirited independents and moderates who look to government for competence in solving problems and have little confidence in its ability to deliver.

A just-released Pew Research Center study found widespread mistrust of government, but also of banks, financial institutions and large corporations. Yes, there is authentic populist anger out there. But you won't find much of it at the tea parties.

He says it best. And it's all true. Those who hold the views of the teabaggers on this forum and who claim that their views are held by the majority of Americans (because so many watch fox news) are WRONG. The majority of Americans and I share the same views on much of what this poll showed.

Edited April 19, 2010 by Cleo's Mom

[Cleo's Mom 257]

My response to the teabaggers: :thumbup:

[tdslf1 0]

Those who hold the views of the teabaggers on this forum and who claim that their views are held by the majority of Americans (because so many watch fox news) are WRONG.

The statement that because a lot of people watch Fake Noise, they must believe all that is said is wrong simply because there are people like me who watch it sometime just to see how the other side is demonizing the progress that is being made and the level of hatred they have for Obama. I don't tune in to become a minion and fall in line. I do it because you always have to watch the enemy. As stated earlier, they present some facts, but they distort them with no thought to consequences. Besides they call themselves an entertainment company. They do it to entertain. Their saying not mine.

There are Mcveigh's out there now more than ever. From the informed to the insane, they can come out of nowhere and hurt some people real bad because they don't like the government. Not saying that element will come from the baggers, but that might seem the best guess of the direction it might come from with all the misinformation.

Edited April 19, 2010 by tdslf1

[loserbob 11]

I couldn't find much about them cancelling the meeting but I did find the following:

In a regulatory filing, AT&T estimated $1 billion in costs because the company won't be able to deduct a subsidy it receives from the federal government for healthcare costs for retirees.

I had to read it several times. The government gives AT&T a subsidy and they are crying because they can no longer deduct it? Talk about double dipping and hitting the taxpayers twice. They were able to deduct the taxpayer's subsidy from the taxes they owe? Unbelievable!! If someone on welfare was able to do that, imagine the outrage. But of course it's corporate welfare so that's okay. :thumbup: Usually when someone gets a subsidy from any source that's counted as some type of income not a deduction. But this is corporate america and they get what they want.

Written by the Associated Press

I found the article, Thursday April 14 Tribune Review. Page A10

"Healthcare panel cancels hearing"

Dem lawmakers canceled a hearing Wednsday, called to hear concerns by AT&T and other corporations about new employer costs in the healthcare overhaul, saying the companies now believe the overhaul could ease their costs if implemented properly.

(paragraph 1)

Waxmans statement quotes an AT&T vice president as saying"if other parts of the law aimed at lowering costs are successful, self insured companies like AT&T would likely benefit from such reduced costs".

(Last paragraph)

I didnt feel like typing the whole article, its 8 paragraphs.

The subsidy thing you wrote about is what the rest of the article is about.

Edited April 19, 2010 by loserbob

[loserbob 11]

Leave it to a liberal!:thumbup: It's not always ALL or NOTHING! This party wants smaller government, not NO government. The government in this country has been slowly, little by little, adding more and more programs and federal employees and Pork projects, etc. to its list of growing BILLS. It is THAT which we are upset about. What? You can't understand that or see that?

Okay, the programs and expenses that are out there are most likely never going to be reversed or removed from the budget, like S.S. and medicare, etc., cause what does the government start funding that ever stops being funded? What we want is for it to STOP! When Obama became president, the people were very interested in politics because of the excitement of a black presidential candidate. This started the people looking at what is happening in Washington, which in turn enraged them because they saw what Obama is doing to the economy. They started to see how the spending is out of control, how the money is being spent foolishly on pork, etc. They started to see how the government wants those who worked hard and sacrificed something in life to get ahead to 'share' their plunder with those who don't have as much. This is quite noble and I believe people with much should give much, but it is NOT the governments place to make it so. Blame Bush if you like, but its been over a year now, Obama owns it now. He is spending us into oblivion.

It is not that this party doesn't want some government help for people. Some is the key word here. It is too much now. Where will it end? You must put a limit on it, or they will take it all. THAT is what the tea party is about.

You say the government gives to much, now your saying they take to much, which is it?

[loserbob 11]

You say the government gives to much, now your saying they take to much, which is it?

Then you say its ok for the gov to give some help but they give to much. Who decides how much is to much? I guess you!!!