Conservative VS Liberal

[pattygreen 5]

I don't care how you justify your lack of compassion, I stand by my statement.

You standing by your statement doesn't mean squat to me. Stand away!

The programs that you want to cut are the programs that differentiate us from third world countries. If I wanted to live like that I would move there. This is America, where we have the duty take care of each other, the founding fathers said, our duty is dictated by our conscience. My conscience says letting people go hungry, die from lack of health services and not providing a quality education to children in the name of preventing "government waste" is wrong.

My duty is dictated by my conscience. Not the federal governments. I make the decisions for what to do with my income. I will decide who to be charitable to or not. I, personally, would never let anyone go hungry or die from lack of HC. My conscience is clear. And my opinion, along with advanced studies, have found that Head Start is not "quality" education! At least quality education that we need to WASTE federal taxes on. When a child, who never attended Head Start, can start 1st grade on EXACTLY the same academic page as one who did, they are wasting money and time!

And, since when do you give a crap what our founding Father's said? Cause I could hand you about 1000 pages worth of Founding Father's statements about this country being a Christian Nation and you would not agree with them.

We have duties, for the discharge of which we are accountable to our Creator and benefactor, which no human power can cancel. What those duties are, is determinable by right reason, which may be, and is called, a well informed conscience. What this conscience dictates as our duty, is so; and that power which assumes a control over it, is an usurper; for no power can be pleaded to justify the control, as any consent in this case is void.

The Essex Result, May 12, 1778

Exactly. And our duties are just that. OURS! Not the governments or anyone elses. For we will answer to God for the things WE have done in the flesh, whether good or bad. Not the things the government or anyone else has done. And thank God for that, too. Cause most of the things that our government has done will send them to hell.

Edited April 4, 2010 by pattygreen

[pattygreen 5]

Here's another suggestion. You claim to know all these families where you live who don't need the government goodies they receive. The next time you see one of them offer them the suggestions you haver posted here so that they can become more self sufficient and not rely on the government for their kid's lunch, among other things. You obviously don't think your elected officials are going to enact any changes, so it's up to you.

I have a better suggestion. STOP all the SPENDING!!! STOP making more programs and adding to them on a weekly basis. We can't afford them. My advice is to get out in November and vote the rats out. This is the only place I go where if politics is talked about, I am the odd duck. At work, at gatherings, at my husbands job at the bank, among friends and family, Obama and what his administration is doing to our country is held in disgust! I just happened to get caught up with the few of you here who love our government and all the spending sprees and the welfare and who love having the feds take care of your needs financially. Well, I prefer independence as opposed to dependence on them for my welfare. sad lot.

[LeighaMason 19]

Exactly. And our duties are just that. OURS! Not the governments or anyone else's. For we will answer to God for the things WE have done in the flesh, whether good or bad. Not the things the government or anyone else has done. And thank God for that, too. Cause most of the things that our government has done will send them to hell.

Definition of the word OUR--–pronoun

(a form of the possessive case of we used as an attributive adjective)

Our means we, the founding fathers were talking about the responsibilities of the nation not personal responsibility. We also have to answer to God for the actions committed on our behalf, if you vote out social programs and gods children suffer, do you think he will be pleased with your actions?

My duty is dictated by my conscience, Selfish.

I, personally, would never let anyone go hungry or die from lack of HC. My conscience is clear. You have said repeatedly that you want to cut WIC, if you vote that way and it happens you are personally letting people go hungry.

Cause I could hand you about 1000 pages worth of Founding Father's statements about this country being a Christian Nation and you would not agree with them.

Yeah, I'm sure you could but instead of a thoughtful post written by you, it would just be more cut and paste of quotes taken out of context and given the Fox News spin.

Cause most of the things that our government has done will send them to hell. Can the government go to hell? I thought only people went to heaven or hell.

[LeighaMason 19]

I have a better suggestion. STOP all the SPENDING!!! STOP making more programs and adding to them on a weekly basis. We can't afford them. My advice is to get out in November and vote the rats out. This is the only place I go where if politics is talked about, I am the odd duck. At work, at gatherings, at my husbands job at the bank, among friends and family, Obama and what his administration is doing to our country is held in disgust! I just happened to get caught up with the few of you here who love our government and all the spending sprees and the welfare and who love having the feds take care of your needs financially. Well, I prefer independence as opposed to dependence on them for my welfare. sad lot.

That is because you chose to surround yourself with people who agree with you so that you can justify your behavior. In your world, 1 person makes the whole, if 1 person it this way then everyone is like that! I took advantage of the welfare system so everyone does! My neighbors kid is OK after they got off WIC so everyone is! Your ego is astounding.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

I have a better suggestion. STOP all the SPENDING!!! STOP making more programs and adding to them on a weekly basis. We can't afford them. My advice is to get out in November and vote the rats out. This is the only place I go where if politics is talked about, I am the odd duck. At work, at gatherings, at my husbands job at the bank, among friends and family, Obama and what his administration is doing to our country is held in disgust! I just happened to get caught up with the few of you here who love our government and all the spending sprees and the welfare and who love having the feds take care of your needs financially. Well, I prefer independence as opposed to dependence on them for my welfare. sad lot.

Why are you reluctant to give your neighbors (who you KNOW are receiving government aid but don't need it) all your wonderful ideas for earning more money? When you see them at the grocery store buying the cheerios or juicy juices, or at the gas station (filling up their late model car, no doubt) or out to their weekly restaurant dinner- tell them to shovel snow or cut grass or make crafts to sell so that they don't have to accept the free lunch program. You seem to have an intimate knowledge of their personal incomes, aid they receive and individual situations. So, I would think you would feel comfortable offering these suggestions.

Let me know how it goes.

All the people I know and hang out with voted for and support Pres. Obama. Go figure.

[LeighaMason 19]

Once again here is what happens when businesses are not tightly regulated. It affects each one of us, every day.

In a much larger and complex scam, known as "Operation Rotten Tomato", one of California's oldest Tomato growers, SK Foods, had been under investigation for selling moldy, expired tomato derivatives to food makers like Kraft and Heinz, but selling it under the guise of being more expensive forms of paste. The IRS, the FDA and the FBI investigated SK Foods for five years to determine the specifics of the deception. It turns out that the company had been selling millions of pounds of the expired paste. Additionally, SK Foods apparently sold normal tomatoes as "organic."

Meanwhile, the company's owner, 54-year-old Scott Sayler, had been allegedly engaging in bribery, mail fraud and other misdeeds in order to out-sell his competitors. Sayler eventually fled the country to Switzerland, but was arrested by the FBI when he returned to America in February.

(Full article here)

Food fraud cases growing, as well as safety warnings

There is a fundamental flaw in the "corporations will self regulate" theory. Corporations are born to make money, that is the only reason they exist. So like a dog that is bred and born to fight they are a risk to others and must be restrained. You must give corporations that have the ability to harm the public, parameters to work in. Otherwise it is "everything goes in the name of more profit". Including selling you rotten food.

[BJean 16]

People who knowingly take advantage of government funded programs set up for needy people and those who lie to private charitable foundations to get money or free goods or services are fundamentally flawed individuals.

Lying for profit is wrong. Whether it's a big corporation that lies to make higher profits or a mother sticking out her hand for welfare or a charitable gift who has lied on the questionnaire; whether it's a couple of years when you are just starting out without many resources taking a welfare check, or getting juicy juice for your kids by lying on a simple little form, or even getting a handicapped sticker when you're just overweight and don't like to walk across a whole parking lot to get in a store... it's wrong.

And you'll never convince me that those folks are going to heaven, even if they believe that Jesus is our Savior and believeth in Him. Because there is something fundamentally rotten in their very core. They say all the right words to sound like a decent person, but they are not decent people. They have black hearts and they are going to hell in a handbag.

And I've learned over my lifetime that too many of the people who quote the Bible and tell others how they should live are the very people who have serious problems with truth and honesty. They know they're wrong and they jump on the Christianity bandwagon to take away their guilt and to ensure that they are going to heaven in spite of everything. Can't help but think of prison ministries in this discussion.

[pattygreen 5]

Definition of the word OUR--–pronoun

(a form of the possessive case of we used as an attributive adjective)

Our means we, the founding fathers were talking about the responsibilities of the nation not personal responsibility. We also have to answer to God for the actions committed on our behalf, if you vote out social programs and gods children suffer, do you think he will be pleased with your actions?

My duty is dictated by my conscience, Selfish.

The Essex Result is not my constitution! I should pay taxes to run what the government is supposed to do, not to help support the people in America. I do that through my local food bank, church and charities. You calling me selfish because I don't feel the government should do my charity giving for me is like me calling you a thief because you feel it's okay for them to take our money and give it away like candy.< /span>

I, personally, would never let anyone go hungry or die from lack of HC. My conscience is clear. You have said repeatedly that you want to cut WIC, if you vote that way and it happens you are personally letting people go hungry.

No. They won't go hungry. If the government didn't have any of these programs, and we didn't have to give the funds to the government for them, then we would have plenty left in our paychecks to give to the local food pantrys where they could receive food and eat. Also, if the government wasn't soooo huge and needed so much funds to run, the price of everything would go down and be more affordable for the people to care for themselves.

Cause I could hand you about 1000 pages worth of Founding Father's statements about this country being a Christian Nation and you would not agree with them.

Yeah, I'm sure you could but instead of a thoughtful post written by you, it would just be more cut and paste of quotes taken out of context and given the Fox News spin.

That's you're opinion.

Cause most of the things that our government has done will send them to hell. Can the government go to hell? I thought only people went to heaven or hell.

People are the government. Those who are running it know who they are. They know full well of their own corruption, deceit and crookedness.

[pattygreen 5]

That is because you chose to surround yourself with people who agree with you so that you can justify your behavior. In your world, 1 person makes the whole, if 1 person it this way then everyone is like that! I took advantage of the welfare system so everyone does! My neighbors kid is OK after they got off WIC so everyone is! Your ego is astounding.

You have no clue about who I surround myself with. I only tell you one or two examples for the sake of not having to write all the cases out. There are plenty of people who I know or have heard about who are taking advantage of the systems in some way. I had 5 kids on WIC back in the day. I used to practically live at that WIC office. You wait there forever and talk to everyone who is collecting the food checks along with all the employees. I'm not the only one who knows what a sham that program is.

[pattygreen 5]

Why are you reluctant to give your neighbors (who you KNOW are receiving government aid but don't need it) all your wonderful ideas for earning more money? When you see them at the grocery store buying the cheerios or juicy juices, or at the gas station (filling up their late model car, no doubt) or out to their weekly restaurant dinner- tell them to shovel snow or cut grass or make crafts to sell so that they don't have to accept the free lunch program. You seem to have an intimate knowledge of their personal incomes, aid they receive and individual situations. So, I would think you would feel comfortable offering these suggestions.

Let me know how it goes.

All the people I know and hang out with voted for and support Pres. Obama. Go figure.

Of course they did. :smile2:

It is not my place to point out to people (personally) their sins or wrong doing.

Before you jump all over that statement I want you to recognize that this is a rants and raves forum and these are very controversuial issues that we are discussing, so when I point out wrongs, IMO, on these forums, it is because this is the place where I can do that. I would never personally tell someone that they are doing wrong. God will one day reveal their wrongs to them, just as he did for me.

[pattygreen 5]

Once again here is what happens when businesses are not tightly regulated. It affects each one of us, every day.

In a much larger and complex scam, known as "Operation Rotten Tomato", one of California's oldest Tomato growers, SK Foods, had been under investigation for selling moldy, expired tomato derivatives to food makers like Kraft and Heinz, but selling it under the guise of being more expensive forms of paste. The IRS, the FDA and the FBI investigated SK Foods for five years to determine the specifics of the deception. It turns out that the company had been selling millions of pounds of the expired paste. Additionally, SK Foods apparently sold normal tomatoes as "organic."

Meanwhile, the company's owner, 54-year-old Scott Sayler, had been allegedly engaging in bribery, mail fraud and other misdeeds in order to out-sell his competitors. Sayler eventually fled the country to Switzerland, but was arrested by the FBI when he returned to America in February.

(Full article here)

Food fraud cases growing, as well as safety warnings

There is a fundamental flaw in the "corporations will self regulate" theory. Corporations are born to make money, that is the only reason they exist. So like a dog that is bred and born to fight they are a risk to others and must be restrained. You must give corporations that have the ability to harm the public, parameters to work in. Otherwise it is "everything goes in the name of more profit". Including selling you rotten food.

Once again, I do not advocate for NO regulations whatsoever. Just as I don't advocate for NO welfare ever. I just feel that there are too many of them, and it is getting out of hand now. Many on these forums have a yes or no, all or nothing, mentality. What ever happened to a middle ground? The government has crossed over the middle and is heading to far to the other end.

[pattygreen 5]

People who knowingly take advantage of government funded programs set up for needy people and those who lie to private charitable foundations to get money or free goods or services are fundamentally flawed individuals.

Lying for profit is wrong. Whether it's a big corporation that lies to make higher profits or a mother sticking out her hand for welfare or a charitable gift who has lied on the questionnaire; whether it's a couple of years when you are just starting out without many resources taking a welfare check, or getting juicy juice for your kids by lying on a simple little form, or even getting a handicapped sticker when you're just overweight and don't like to walk across a whole parking lot to get in a store... it's wrong.

And you'll never convince me that those folks are going to heaven, even if they believe that Jesus is our Savior and believeth in Him. Because there is something fundamentally rotten in their very core. They say all the right words to sound like a decent person, but they are not decent people. They have black hearts and they are going to hell in a handbag.

And I've learned over my lifetime that too many of the people who quote the Bible and tell others how they should live are the very people who have serious problems with truth and honesty. They know they're wrong and they jump on the Christianity bandwagon to take away their guilt and to ensure that they are going to heaven in spite of everything. Can't help but think of prison ministries in this discussion.

Are you kidding me?! If that's the way it is, Heaven is going to be empty. God will be sitting there all alone. Because every man is a liar and a sinner. EVERY human! "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." There is not ONE who will get there on their own good works or merit.

BTW, you are so wrong about Christrians.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Of course they did. :smile2:

It is not my place to point out to people (personally) their sins or wrong doing.

Before you jump all over that statement I want you to recognize that this is a rants and raves forum and these are very controversuial issues that we are discussing, so when I point out wrongs, IMO, on these forums, it is because this is the place where I can do that. I would never personally tell someone that they are doing wrong. God will one day reveal their wrongs to them, just as he did for me.

The government sets the standards for eligibility for these programs. If someone qualifies (truthfully) then it is justified. They have not committed a sin. That is only in your mind.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

from pattygreen: No. They won't go hungry. If the government didn't have any of these programs, and we didn't have to give the funds to the government for them, then we would have plenty left in our paychecks to give to the local food pantrys where they could receive food and eat. Also, if the government wasn't soooo huge and needed so much funds to run, the price of everything would go down and be more affordable for the people to care for themselves.

First of all, you are making a HUGE assumption about people - that if they had more money in their paychecks they would give more money to food banks, etc.. Well, they did get more money in their paychecks starting a year ago with the tax cut Pres. Obama gave to 95% of working people. Did the food banks benefit? No, because everything I have been reading is that all of these charity endeavors are hurting more than ever.

Also, I haven't noticed the price of anything going down as a result of this tax cut.

[mstwash 0]

My husband is in the navy 10 yrs enlisted, 4 years officer,Lt. I find it fascinating how many patriotic Republicans support illegal wars but have a large moral issue when it comes to healthcare for their fellow Americans. We all pay taxes, at least I have since my very first job at 16. Taxes are here always have been, suck it up and go to work. Maybe its easier for you to sit back and pay for someone else to die to get a gallon of gas for your hummer than to use your tax money to ensure that your fellow American is healthy and can contribute to this nation. I personally did not vote for Our great President because I knew his race would enflame Republicans across the States (It did) God forbid we have to do what that black guy says! "we want our country back" REALLY? REALLY? w