Conservative VS Liberal

[Cleo's Mom 257]

School lunches: This is sometimes the only meal a poor child eats all day.

I have personal experience with this one. I happen to know that most people who get free lunches don't 'need' them. Who are you to make that conclusion? You don't know every person's situation. Maybe a few anecdotal ones that you extrapolate to include EVERYONE!! They meet the income guidelines so they figure, "hey, why not. I can get it for free, I'll take it.

Head Start: For every dollar we invest in head start we save $7 in incarceration costs.

A new study proved that children who went to head start where on equal levels with every other child in the class by the beginning of first grade. Then it sounds like the program is working. It is a very successful program especially for urban children. It is a horrible waste of tax payer dollars and is not needed.

Women, Infant, Children: You want to cut this and you call yourself pro-life? This program provides care for pregnant women and their babies. WOW.

This is a program that gives away free milk, eggs, ceral and juice. It is a waste of money. The majority of people who get these checks do not need themAgain, how would you know if the majority does not need them? That's quite a sweeping statement. and sometimes sell them to others. How does that compare to not wanting babys murdered? Oh brother! You can't be pro-life and want to deny children milk and juice. It is inconsistent.

Maternal and Child health: Cutting this would be consistent with the anti-abortion philosophy which is to believe life begins at conception and ends at birth. Again, WOW. Denying poor women and their children healthcare.

I would never deny them HC. They may go to any Dr. they choose and pay for it like everyone else does.If they could afford to pay, they wouldn't qualify for this program. Geez. Are you really that dense?

Rural housing loans: Have you ever seen those programs about Appalachia? Those people live in shacks, literally, and you would cut programs that would allow them to do what, move up to a trailer?

I am glad you posted this. It confirms what those of us who consider ourselves progressives always knew about those of you on the extreme right.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

I am against corporate welfare as well, so I don't know why you bring it up here. That's probably the only thing we agree on.

Really? Because you certainly never bring it up. You are too busy trying to take food out of poor's children's mouths.

And I bring it up to show that corporate welfare costs us taxpayers more than welfare to people.

So, if you were really concerned about spending and the deficit, you would be posting about corporate welfare all the time and not personal welfare to the least among us, because corporate america is sure not the least among us.

But of course you won't, because spending and the deficit aren't the real issues. It's just a smoke screen. The real issue is parroting all the talking points of the extreme right wing conservatives and promoting their agenda which is to take us back to a country of two classes, the very rich and the very poor (with no safety nets) with no middle class. We were there once and that's where they want to take us. And guess which class they will be in?

Edited April 3, 2010 by Cleo's Mom

[LeighaMason 19]

And guess which class you will be in?

The very rich or the very poor?

[pattygreen 5]

School lunches: This is sometimes the only meal a poor child eats all day.

I have personal experience with this one. I happen to know that most people who get free lunches don't 'need' them. Who are you to make that conclusion? You don't know every person's situation. Maybe a few anecdotal ones that you extrapolate to include EVERYONE!!

I spent many years in the school cafeteria and I know most of the families in my town. I see it, the teachers see it.

They meet the income guidelines so they figure, "hey, why not. I can get it for free, I'll take it.

Head Start: For every dollar we invest in head start we save $7 in incarceration costs.

A new study proved that children who went to head start where on equal levels with every other child in the class by the beginning of first grade. Then it sounds like the program is working. It is a very successful program especially for urban children.

No, it means that the children who went to Head Start had no advantage over the ones who didn't. All were equal at the end of Kindergarten. Watse!

It is a horrible waste of tax payer dollars and is not needed.

Women, Infant, Children: You want to cut this and you call yourself pro-life? This program provides care for pregnant women and their babies. WOW.

This is a program that gives away free milk, eggs, ceral and juice. It is a waste of money. The majority of people who get these checks do not need themAgain, how would you know if the majority does not need them? That's quite a sweeping statement.

Because I know. The women who ran the program when I was getting Wic told me that I had to have a reason for my children to be on the program according to the federal government. They actually made up a medical reason for my kids. They said they were overweight.

and sometimes sell them to others. How does that compare to not wanting babys murdered? Oh brother! You can't be pro-life and want to deny children milk and juice. It is inconsistent. Children that don't get WIC don't die. Be real!

Maternal and Child health: Cutting this would be consistent with the anti-abortion philosophy which is to believe life begins at conception and ends at birth. Again, WOW. Denying poor women and their children healthcare.

I would never deny them HC. They may go to any Dr. they choose and pay for it like everyone else does.If they could afford to pay, they wouldn't qualify for this program. Geez. Are you really that dense? The guidlines are too high.

Rural housing loans: Have you ever seen those programs about Appalachia? Those people live in shacks, literally, and you would cut programs that would allow them to do what, move up to a trailer?

I am glad you posted this. It confirms what those of us who consider ourselves progressives always knew about those of you on the extreme right.

.............................

[LeighaMason 19]

Patty, I am still waiting for you to tell me where you "work". I have never heard you tell what your job is.

Still waiting to hear what type of "work" you do.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

.............................

I can't believe the lengths you will go to to justify your cold-heartedness.

Oh, so I guess you and the gossipy teachers had a field day discussing the income and needs of the family getting free lunch. This was highly unethical for both of you to do that.

And guess what, unless you prepare those family's tax returns as well as know their personal situations, you do NOT know. Period. And these families are not everyone.

And without head start those students would be behind the rest of the students starting kindergarten and first grade. Don't you get it?

And for the WIC program - well, you just know. That's very convincing. And kids who qualify for WIC and don't get it don't die? What about if they don't thrive or grow properly and their brains don't develop as well as a well nourished child. I guess that is okay, then.

And the guidelines for maternal and child health are too high? Well, then by all means let's kick kids off so that they will not get the healthcare they deserve. Again, they might not die from lack of healthcare, but then again they might. But that would just be collateral damage.

[LeighaMason 19]

I can't believe the lengths you will go to to justify your cold-heartedness.

Oh, so I guess you and the gossipy teachers had a field day discussing the income and needs of the family getting free lunch. This was highly unethical for both of you to do that.

And guess what, unless you prepare those family's tax returns as well as know their personal situations, you do NOT know. Period. And these families are not everyone.

And without head start those students would be behind the rest of the students starting kindergarten and first grade. Don't you get it?

And for the WIC program - well, you just know. That's very convincing. And kids who qualify for WIC and don't get it don't die? What about if they don't thrive or grow properly and their brains don't develop as well as a well nourished child. I guess that is okay, then.

And the guidelines for maternal and child health are too high? Well, then by all means let's kick kids off so that they will not get the healthcare they deserve. Again, they might not die from lack of healthcare, but then again they might. But that would just be collateral damage.

Makes you want to be a Christian doesn't it?

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Makes you want to be a Christian doesn't it?

Not her brand.

[LeighaMason 19]

Oh yeah, that's a bad word for you liberals, isn't it? "work"

Still waiting for you to tell us about your "work".

[LeighaMason 19]

Still waiting for you to tell us about your "work".

I guess you must have gone to bed, I guess your "work" must have worn you out today. Sweet dreams.

[BJean 16]

patty: "You just don't get how important it is that the government doesn't continue to have more and more control over everything."

You just don't get how irrational that is.

patty: "But I did recieve WIC when my kids were young, and energy assistance, and I was once on welfare for 2 years or so when I was 19. I was one who took advantage of these programs simply because I could. It was a huge waste of federal funds."

Good grief!! No wonder you think everyone who accepts help from government programs is taking advantage and they don't really have a need. You're admitting the kind of person you are and it is very telling indeed. I know you'll back peddle and say I "put words in your mouth" and all that. And you'll say that was before you found Christ and you would never do that today...

But you reveal your true self in so many ways. No wonder you can't understand the thought process of someone who is more progressive and left leaning. You think every American is on the take from the government. It must really suck to be you and to harbor so many negative feelings about your government. No wonder you have become such an extremist. No wonder you think what we did to American Indians was fine and that the Indians brought it on themselves.

Yeppers you're a Republican all right. Through and through.

[pattygreen 5]

Still waiting to hear what type of "work" you do.

I must have missed that question. I am a CNA in a Skilled Nursing Facility that primarily cares for Alzheimer's patients, but not all. I do some companion work also. I've done that for the past 2 years even though I've been licensed for about 15 years. I worked in other convelescent homes and did alot of private duty care. Before that, I ran my own daycare business for 12 years when my own kids were young.

[pattygreen 5]

patty: "You just don't get how important it is that the government doesn't continue to have more and more control over everything."

You just don't get how irrational that is.

patty: "But I did recieve WIC when my kids were young, and energy assistance, and I was once on welfare for 2 years or so when I was 19. I was one who took advantage of these programs simply because I could. It was a huge waste of federal funds."

This is not new information about myself to you, bjean. I have never hidden the fact that when I was 19 I got on welfare. (I also stated that back then, you had to pay it back, not so today)

Good grief!! No wonder you think everyone who accepts help from government programs is taking advantage and they don't really have a need. You're admitting the kind of person you are (you mean, was)and it is very telling indeed. I know you'll back peddle and say I "put words in your mouth" and all that. And you'll say that was before you found Christ and you would never do that today...

But you reveal your true self in so many ways. No wonder you can't understand the thought process of someone who is more progressive and left leaning.

Sorry, I just can't understand how the left leaning liberals desire the government to 'care' for them over independence to care for themselves. Why anyone would desire to be dependent on the government is beyond me. I guess it's a safety, security blanket. Truth is, if a people didn't have the government to lean on, they would have to care for themselves, and then they would.

You think every American is on the take from the government. It must really suck to be you and to harbor so many negative feelings about your government. No wonder you have become such an extremist. No wonder you think what we did to American Indians was fine and that the Indians brought it on themselves.

Yeppers you're a Republican all right. Through and through.

Did that all make you feel good about yourself?

I have seen ALOT of welfare fraud by others. I includeed myself, at one time, because I want to make it clear that even people who try to do the right thing in life will take what is given for free if the opportunity is there for them to take it. Whether they truly 'need' it or not.) You're right when you say I wouldn't do that today. I was 19 then, now I'm 48. People change. I'm not afraid to confess my wrong doings or my past mistakes. But many do take advantage of the system. Most of these government give aways are not "needed". Oh, yes, they help alot. There is no doubt about that, but essentially needed? No. What did all these women who had young children do before the WIC program began? They bought their own milk and eggs. The income guidelines for WIC are crazy. I was working at the time, and could afford my weekly groceries. WIC, to me, was a free bonus. I would have gotten by without the $400. in free oil I got 2 years in a row, also. That, too, was a bonus. I know MANY, and I mean Many, who take advantage of the energy assistnace program. The government should ONLY give free oil to people who have absolutely no resources and need it.

[pattygreen 5]

I can't believe the lengths you will go to to justify your cold-heartedness.

Oh, so I guess you and the gossipy teachers had a field day discussing the income and needs of the family getting free lunch. We all just happen to know each other around here. Free lunch is not a "need" it's a 'help' to low income people. If the free lunch wasn't there, they would pack one from home. This is about government waste and programs that could be eliminated. This free lunch program is just a dent in the federal budget, and my point is that the government should eliminate a bunch of these dents and stop expecting every citizen to support every other citizen out there.This was highly unethical for both of you to do that.

And guess what, unless you prepare those family's tax returns as well as know their personal situations, you do NOT know. Period. And these families are not everyone.

If you think that the government programs that people are eligible for are not being wasteful with our tax dollars, then you truly are deceived. I have said this before, and I'll say it again. When it's not their money, they don't care how it's spent. A private business would scrutinize every penny. Government employees don't give a crap how they dish out government funds.

And without head start those students would be behind the rest of the students starting kindergarten and first grade. Don't you get it?

No. The study showed that there was NO difference academically between children who went to head start and those who didn't at the beginning of first grade. In other words, kindergarten prepares everyone for elementary school (1st grade) the same. Whether you had headstart or not. So, why bother with head start? It gives a child no advantage over any other child that did not attend. If parents want their kids to have 'social' time with other kids their age at 3 and 4, then they should pay for it themselves.

And for the WIC program - well, you just know. That's very convincing. And kids who qualify for WIC and don't get it don't die? What about if they don't thrive or grow properly and their brains don't develop as well as a well nourished child. I guess that is okay, then.

You're a drama queen. I suppose that there would NEVER be a government program that is not necessary in your opinion. Let's have the government start paying for vegetables and fruit for all children. A program that gives away these kinds of foods would benefit them cause everyone knows kids don't get enough antioxidents. The government can not afford to supply all the countries needs.

And the guidelines for maternal and child health are too high? Well, then by all means let's kick kids off so that they will not get the healthcare they deserve. Again, they might not die from lack of healthcare, but then again they might. But that would just be collateral damage.

You are determined to believe that the government is our end all, be all. The government is scrambling for ways to be able to pay for all these programs without raising taxes, because the people can't afford any more taxes, yet they will NEVER eliminate wasteful programs, because there will always be some donkey out there who will say "but, the children....." "But the homeless......" But the park is needed......" "But the teachers will have to get laid off...." But he needs a college education..." But.... But... But....

Where will it end? It is NOT the governments place to support the people. It is not the peoples place to support each other financially. They may if they choose, but this should never be forced. Taxes to helpsome who desperately need it for a time is acceptable.

Edited April 3, 2010 by pattygreen

[pattygreen 5]

Makes you want to be a Christian doesn't it?

My opinions on government waste have nothing to do with being a Christian. Just because Cleos's assumes that I had some kind of talk with teachers about kids who are getting free lunch doesn't mean it happened. That's her imagined scenerio. I overhear what is being said about others, and I happen to know alot of people in my town personally.

As a Christian, I believe in giving to the poor and helping those in need. I am a very generous person with my finances, and time. It has nothing to do with that. Government steals from people to give to others and themselves, in a sense, when they are not good stewards of the money (taxes) they take in. When they pass out funds that they don't even have, they are putting us into deeper debt. Just because I don't feel that head start is something the gov. should waste their money on, doesn't mean I'm a selfish Christian. It means I don't feel the government should WASTE our money.