Conservative VS Liberal

[BJean 16]

I have been thinking the same thing. Wouldn't it be interesting if they lost seats and governorships rather than gained.

It won't happen. But I do hope that people who are sick and tired of this will get out and vote and not just stay home because they become apathetic. Or feel overwhelmed by it all.

[LeighaMason 19]

The good news is that the Healthcare bill and the jobs bill will be started by then and the small business owners will see that these things have actually helped them and then more people will know that all the hype that the republicans put out was just lies.

Small business owners need to keep in mind they are the biggest threat to large corporations. If the compensation is the same most employees would rather work for a small businesses plus customers would rather do business with them so it is in the large corporations best interest to keep an unlevel playing field in employees recruiting. This is why there was so much scare propaganda that was created about health care and directed at small business owners. Now the truth will come out in the wash....

[BJean 16]

You sure could be right, Leigha about people preferring to work for small businesses rather than large corporations. But I don't think that is why this became an issue that the right wing glommed onto.

It is simply one more thing that they can do to put fear in middle class Americans. But the gambit comes from large corporate entities that simply do not want the regulation or subsidies that the left wing wants to put on them.

They've enjoyed a long run with having free reign to do business pretty much however they want to in America. They've realized billions by having governmental support to do it.

In the past, the theory they used to sell capitalistic greed to the middle class was that if the large corporations do well, it will trickle down to all of the middle and lower income folks. Well, it has been long enough now for Americans to realize, for sure, that trickle down doesn't work.

So the powers that be (big money) had to find a different way to incentivize Americans to keep them as big and powerful and lucrative as they have been. So that's why this hype about health care reform harming small businesses is such a core part of their campaign.

Get the American middle class to support the idea of a free capitalistic society because it is unAmerican to put regulations on them. Get the middle class to embrace the idea that reigning in the insurance companies, for instance, will harm small businesses. Put out all kinds of false and misleading information to support their claims so as to scare the owners of mom and pop businesses enough to make them join in demonstrations and carry placards.

That's is what the tea party is about. It has come about by big business people using lots and lots of corporate money and organization ahead of the movement so that middle income Americans will fall in step with the slogans and ideas that they put forth, which will influence more and more Americans to think that there really is substance behind the hype.

One would have to be an idiot to think that all those professionally made signs and demonstrations were really organized and funded by mom and pop small business owners.

Sorry, I got a little carried away with my rant.

[pattygreen 5]

Didn't you say a few days ago that you still owed money on your rental property? If so, based on the argument above, you don't even live by what you are mandating, why should we?

When I said "no more borrowing." I meant the government. Not the people. WE can do what we want with our money.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

When I said "no more borrowing." I meant the government. Not the people. WE can do what we want with our money.

If you borrow, it's not your money. And that loan is often backed by the government.

[pattygreen 5]

This type of tax hits the poor and middle class harder, but especially the poor. One dollar out of ten is a lot to take away from them and reduces -even further- their buying power. But one dollar out of ten for a wealthy person would not have much of an impact and I'm sure they would love this kind of tax. And not surprisingly, why you support it.

I am not against helping the poor. I am not in favor of the rich. I am against government dictating to the people what they should do with their money. So, it is getting rather tiring listening to you harp on my "selfishness" as you call it. You know as well as I do that this is about government BIGNESS and control of Americans rights and freedoms, not charity.

And if living within our means - means you can't go to war if you don't have the money - I would support that. But of course there is ALWAYS money for wars. Even if it has to be borrowed from China and added to our national debt. Oh, I know, some will say that is the job of our federal government - to protect us. But protection can have different interpretations and I see it differently, as do others.

You would just like to tell those terrorists, "okay now, be nice. We'll be friends with you if you're friends with us.":rolleyes:

We must defend ourselves from enemies, or they will overtake us. War is never nice, but it is needed. The gov. is supposed to be there to protect us.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Originally Posted by Cleo's Mom

This type of tax hits the poor and middle class harder, but especially the poor. One dollar out of ten is a lot to take away from them and reduces -even further- their buying power. But one dollar out of ten for a wealthy person would not have much of an impact and I'm sure they would love this kind of tax. And not surprisingly, why you support it.

I am not against helping the poor. I am not in favor of the rich. I am against government dictating to the people what they should do with their money. So, it is getting rather tiring listening to you harp on my "selfishness" as you call it. You know as well as I do that this is about government BIGNESS and control of Americans rights and freedoms, not charity.

I thought the issue was flat tax vs progressive tax (that we have now)? I showed that the flat tax is unfair and more burdensome to the poor. But you turned it around to something else when you couldn't defend your position. And you keep throwing those buzzwords around - control, rights, freedoms, ad infinitum, ad nauseum. The government has the right to tax and you are mandated to pay. Period.

And if living within our means - means you can't go to war if you don't have the money - I would support that. But of course there is ALWAYS money for wars. Even if it has to be borrowed from China and added to our national debt. Oh, I know, some will say that is the job of our federal government - to protect us. But protection can have different interpretations and I see it differently, as do others.

Edited April 2, 2010 by Cleo's Mom

[Cleo's Mom 257]

You would just like to tell those terrorists, "okay now, be nice. We'll be friends with you if you're friends with us.":rolleyes:

We must defend ourselves from enemies, or they will overtake us. War is never nice, but it is needed. The gov. is supposed to be there to protect us.

Where did I say that? I thought we were talking about the government living within it's means? You can't support borrowing money from China to finance two wars (one unnecessary) that hugely increased our deficit and then turn around and say the government should live within its means.

I guess borrowing for wars is okay. Borrowing for anything else is wrong. :thumbup:

[pattygreen 5]

Where did I say that? I thought we were talking about the government living within it's means? You can't support borrowing money from China to finance two wars (one unnecessary) that hugely increased our deficit and then turn around and say the government should live within its means.

I guess borrowing for wars is okay. Borrowing for anything else is wrong. :thumbup:

If the federal government didn't have to financially support the peope who live here in every way possible, they would have enough money to do their REAL job, which is to protect and defend us.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

If the federal government didn't have to financially support the peope who live here in every way possible, they would have enough money to do their REAL job, which is to protect and defend us.

Guns vs Butter? Well, I will always side with butter. Protecting our people from starving, disease and homelessness is part of protecting us. It is domestic security and domestic protection.

Protecting the citizenry is more than just going to war, too. I can't see one tangible way either of these wars has made me safer. I think our real safety and protection comes from the intelligence the CIA and FBI and other agencies provide that stops or prevents domestic terrorist attacks in this country, including and especially from those anti-government terrorists on the right, like those 9 from Michigan. They pose the biggest threat to our safety.

[pattygreen 5]

Guns vs Butter? Well, I will always side with butter. Protecting our people from starving, disease and homelessness is part of protecting us. It is domestic security and domestic protection.

Protecting the citizenry is more than just going to war, too. I can't see one tangible way either of these wars has made me safer. I think our real safety and protection comes from the intelligence the CIA and FBI and other agencies provide that stops or prevents domestic terrorist attacks in this country, including and especially from those anti-government terrorists on the right, like those 9 from Michigan. They pose the biggest threat to our safety.

I know you think it's the governments job to feed you, house you, and keep you disease free, (most liberals have that need for security) but the majority of us like to be independent and take care of ourselves. Protection from the enemy is something that we can't take care of ourselves. Thus the need for the government.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

I know you think it's the governments job to feed you, house you, and keep you disease free, (most liberals have that need for security) but the majority of us like to be independent and take care of ourselves. Protection from the enemy is something that we can't take care of ourselves. Thus the need for the government.

I think it is a legitimate job of governments at all levels to provide a safety net for people. That's an acceptable use of my tax money, in my opinion.

Mandated (by gov't) vaccinations for children has prevented widespread disease and in the case of smallpox, eliminated it worldwide. I am glad that the government steps in to protect people (me) from the stupidity of others, e.g. I am glad that the government requires child car seats to protect them from stupid parents. Or that there are no smoking laws in workplaces to protect me from stupid smokers.

And most people who claim to be independent are only one job away from unemployment, foreclosure and having their hands out for government help.

I even heard today that the Amish (who are extremely independent and remove themselves from not only government but our society and culture) take out loans and get government help.

[LeighaMason 19]

And most people who claim to be independent are only one job away from unemployment, foreclosure and having their hands out for government help.

.

Or heart attack, broken bone, stroke, etc.

[pattygreen 5]

I've said this a hundred times, yet you are soooo thick, that you either forget I said it or refuse to believe me when I say it. I am not against SOME government help for those who need it. I am against TOO many free giveaways at the expense of the hard working class, and I'm against government big time wastefulness, and their intrusion more and more into our lives. Are you deaf? SOME government help for those who really need it is acceptable. When the 'help' turns into entitlements and dependency and when it bankrupts the country, it's enough, and time to stop the squandering of our funds. Maybe you can get this about how I feel now after the quadrillionth time stating this. IT'S GETTING TOO MUCH NOW. WE ARE IN A RECESSION, WITH UNEMPLOYMENT AT STAGGERING HIGHS. WE CAN'T AFFORD TO 'HELP' EVERYONE NOW. THIS COUNTRY IS BANKRUPT. YOU CAN'T JUST KEEP PRINTING MONEY AND HOPE EVERYTHING WILL WORK ITSELF OUT!!!

[pattygreen 5]

1. The federal government made at least $72 billion in improper payments in 2008.

2. Washington spends $92 billion on corporate welfare (excluding TARP) versus $71 billion on homeland security.

3. Washington spends $25 billion annually maintaining unused or vacant federal properties.

4. Government auditors spent the past five years examining all federal programs and found that 22 percent of them–costing taxpayers a total of $123 billion annually–fail to show any positive impact on the populations they serve.

5. The Congressional Budget Office published a “Budget Options” series identifying more than $100 billion in potential spending cuts.

6. Examples from multiple Government Accountability Office (GAO) reports of wasteful duplication include 342 economic development programs; 130 programs serving the disabled; 130 programs serving at-risk youth; 90 early childhood development programs; 75 programs funding international education, cultural, and training exchange activities; and 72 safe Water programs.

7. Washington will spend $2.6 million training Chinese prostitutes to drink more responsibly on the job.

8. A GAO audit classified nearly half of all purchases on government credit cards as improper, fraudulent, or embezzled. Examples of taxpayer-funded purchases include gambling, mortgage payments, liquor, lingerie, iPods, Xboxes, jewelry, Internet dating services, and Hawaiian vacations. In one extraordinary example, the Postal Service spent $13,500 on one dinner at a Ruth’s Chris Steakhouse, including “over 200 appetizers and over $3,000 of alcohol, including more than 40 bottles of wine costing more than $50 each and brand-name liquor such as Courvoisier, Belvedere and Johnny Walker Gold.” The 81 guests consumed an average of $167 worth of food and drink apiece.

9. Federal agencies are delinquent on nearly 20 percent of employee travel charge cards, costing taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars annually.

10. The Securities and Exchange Commission spent $3.9 million rearranging desks and offices at its Washington, D.C., headquarters.

11. The Pentagon recently spent $998,798 shipping two 19-cent washers from South Carolina to Texas and $293,451 sending an 89-cent washer from South Carolina to Florida.

12. Over half of all farm subsidies go to commercial farms, which report average household incomes of $200,000.

13. Health care fraud is estimated to cost taxpayers more than $60 billion annually.

14. A GAO audit found that 95 Pentagon weapons systems suffered from a combined $295 billion in cost overruns.

15. The refusal of many federal employees to fly coach costs taxpayers $146 million annually in flight upgrades.

16. Washington will spend $126 million in 2009 to enhance the Kennedy family legacy in Massachusetts. Additionally, Senator John Kerry (D-MA) diverted $20 million from the 2010 defense budget to subsidize a new Edward M. Kennedy Institute.

17. Federal investigators have launched more than 20 criminal fraud investigations related to the TARP financial bailout.

18. Despite trillion-dollar deficits, last year’s 10,160 earmarks included $200,000 for a tattoo removal program in Mission Hills, California; $190,000 for the Buffalo Bill Historical Center in Cody, Wyoming; and $75,000 for the Totally Teen Zone in Albany, Georgia.

19. The federal government owns more than 50,000 vacant homes.

20. The Federal Communications Commission spent $350,000 to sponsor NASCAR driver David Gilliland.

21. Members of Congress have spent hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars supplying their offices with popcorn machines, plasma televisions, DVD equipment, ionic air fresheners, camcorders, and signature machines–plus $24,730 leasing a Lexus, $1,434 on a digital camera, and $84,000 on personalized calendars.

22. More than $13 billion in Iraq aid has been classified as wasted or stolen. Another $7.8 billion cannot be accounted for.

23. Fraud related to Hurricane Katrina spending is estimated to top $2 billion. In addition, debit cards provided to hurricane victims were used to pay for Caribbean vacations, NFL tickets, Dom Perignon champagne, “Girls Gone Wild” videos, and at least one sex change operation.

24. Auditors discovered that 900,000 of the 2.5 million recipients of emergency Katrina assistance provided false names, addresses, or Social Security numbers or submitted multiple applications.

25. Congress recently gave Alaska Airlines $500,000 to paint a Chinook salmon on a Boeing 737.

26. The Transportation Department will subsidize up to $2,000 per flight for direct flights between Washington, D.C., and the small hometown of Congressman Hal Rogers (R-KY)–but only on Monday mornings and Friday evenings, when lawmakers, staff, and lobbyists usually fly. Rogers is a member of the Appropriations Committee, which writes the Transportation Department’s budget.

27. Washington has spent $3 billion re-sanding beaches–even as this new sand washes back into the ocean.

28. A Department of Agriculture report concedes that much of the $2.5 billion in “stimulus” funding for broadband Internet will be wasted.

29. The Defense Department wasted $100 million on unused flight tickets and never bothered to collect refunds even though the tickets were refundable.

30. Washington spends $60,000 per hour shooting Air Force One photo-ops in front of national landmarks.

31. Over one recent 18-month period, Air Force and Navy personnel used government-funded credit cards to charge at least $102,400 on admission to entertainment events, $48,250 on gambling, $69,300 on cruises, and $73,950 on exotic dance clubs and prostitutes.

32. Members of Congress are set to pay themselves $90 million to increase their franked mailings for the 2010 election year.

33. Congress has ignored efficiency recommendations from the Department of Health and Human Services that would save $9 billion annually.

34. Taxpayers are funding paintings of high-ranking government officials at a cost of up to $50,000 apiece.

35. The state of Washington sent $1 food stamp checks to 250,000 households in order to raise state caseload figures and trigger $43 million in additional federal funds.

36. Suburban families are receiving large farm subsidies for the grass in their backyards–subsidies that many of these families never requested and do not want.

37. Congress appropriated $20 million for “commemoration of success” celebrations related to Iraq and Afghanistan.

38. Homeland Security employee purchases include 63-inch plasma TVs, iPods, and $230 for a beer brewing kit.

39. Two drafting errors in the 2005 Deficit Reduction Act resulted in a $2 billion taxpayer cost.

40. North Ridgeville, Ohio, received $800,000 in “stimulus” funds for a project that its mayor described as “a long way from the top priority.”

41. The National Institutes of Health spends $1.3 million per month to rent a lab that it cannot use.

42. Congress recently spent $2.4 billion on 10 new jets that the Pentagon insists it does not need and will not use.

43. Lawmakers diverted $13 million from Hurricane Katrina relief spending to build a museum celebrating the Army Corps of Engineers–the agency partially responsible for the failed levees that flooded New Orleans.

44. Medicare officials recently mailed $50 million in erroneous refunds to 230,000 Medicare recipients.

45. Audits showed $34 billion worth of Department of Homeland Security contracts contained significant waste, fraud, and abuse.

46. Washington recently spent $1.8 million to help build a private golf course in Atlanta, Georgia.

47. The Advanced Technology Program spends $150 million annually subsidizing private businesses; 40 percent of this funding goes to Fortune 500 companies.

48. Congressional investigators were able to receive $55,000 in federal student loan funding for a fictional college they created to test the Department of Education.

49. The Conservation Reserve program pays farmers $2 billion annually not to farm their land.

50. The Commerce Department has lost 1,137 computers since 2001, many containing Americans’ personal data