Conservative VS Liberal

[~Michelle~ 0]

I am probably going to open a whole new can worms here. I might regret opening later, but some of the topics being discussed really got me thinking about things. One of the things said that really kind of got me going on this was:

Pattygreen: Christians (usually conservative republicans) for the most part try to live moral, virtuous, nonsinful lives.

I am not a Christian and I live a moral, virtuous, and for the most part nonsinful life. I know several people who live the same, and are not Christian, and have conservative beliefs.

Cleo's Mom: First of all, "conservative republican" is redundant, because they are all conservative. I don't think there are any moderate republicans left particularly among those elected to office.

However, I just wonder if it is MORAL to mislead or outright lie, because listen to what these conservative republicans have said:

Dana Perino said on Fox: We did not have a domestic attack during bush's administration.

A month later Mary Matalin said: bush inherited 9/11 from Clinton.

Yesterday, Rudy Giuliani said that we never had a domestic attack under bush but we had one under Obama.

Now, I ask you - do these people think the American public is really that stupid? Apparently. Those on the right just make things up and keep repeating it. And when they repeat it often enough eventually some people begin to believe it.

They reduce things to some emotional, hate filled sound bite: death panels, obamacare, socialism, hitler, nazi.

This is because they are unable to engage in meaningful, intelligent, fact-based discussions. Maybe they don't want to do that because they don't have the facts on their side.

First I am a moderate Republican. I do tend to lean a little more to the right, but on some issues I lean to the left. Some things I can lean pretty right, and others I lean pretty far left. It really depends on the issue. I'd like to think that would make me moderate. I know many people who are moderate Republicans also. So we are still out there. There are some politicians who are still moderate also.

Second just because you are a Republican does not mean that you can not have a intelligent, meaningful, fact-based conversation. That is like saying liberals have their heads in clouds and live in fantasy nerf world filled with rainbows and butterflies.

Both sides sling mud back and forth. Both sides have their hate filled idiots. Both sides have their good and bad points. Both sides LIE, LIE, and LIE some more.

I get so sick and tired of hearing about how the Republicans have screwed everything up...I mean really they did it all alone.....no help from the left at all???

I personally feel that if you lean too far left or right you can't have a very grip on reality, and when our politicans lean too far left or right it's not good for our country either way. I hope someday too see more moderate politicans in office.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Michelle: There are some politicians who are still moderate also.

The only Republicans elected in DC who I might say are moderate are Sens. Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins.

In the house, not a single republican voted for the Lily Ledbetter bill allowing women to sue when paid less than men. That's not reflective of being a moderate.

Not a single republican in the house or senate voted for healthcare. That's not being moderate.

Not a single republican in the house and only 3 in the senate voted for the stimulus. That is not being moderate. One republican senator has since switched to democrat.

In other words, not a single republican has voted for one bill or item on Obama's agenda. Thus the label of the party of no.

Many of the moderate republicans in the general population (not all) left the republican party and switched to independent before the 2008 election. The entire elected southern republican constituency is very conservative. There are no republican senators in the New England states except for the two women I mentioned.

The elected republicans in DC couldn't wait to start bashing Pres. Obama after he became president. First they wanted him to fix the economy but criticized and didn't vote for the stimulus.

Then when he started to push healthcare, they criticized him for not focusing on Afghanistan or making his decision quickly enough. So, then he made the decision.

So then they started to bash him for not focusing on jobs. So, he held a jobs summit in early Dec. and then proposed using some of the paid back bank bail out money to use in a jobs bill passed by the house (not the senate yet).

So then then after the Dec. 25th underwear bomber they criticized him for not focusing on the "war on terror" .

So, you see? No matter what issue he focuses on, the republicans will criticize him for not focusing on something else.

Their single agenda is this: don't support anything Pres. Obama wants, hope that he fails, and hope that that helps us get more republicans elected.

This is not how moderates operate.

[btrieger 21]

As for having morals and not being xtian; I have no doubt whatsoever that there is no God; yet I believe I have high morals. I definitely know the difference in right from wrong.

The two-party system is one of the many things destroying the very fabric of this country.

It makes everyone choose one party or the other. Once elected the reps and senators don't think for themselves or vote as there constituents want them too. They vote along party lines.

I don't consider myself to be conservative, liberal or moderate. I am all over the map. I am far right on some issues; far left on some; undecided or apathetic about others. I think most intelligent people think as I do and the current system doesn't recognize us.

And CM, the democrats did the same things and said exactly the same thing about Bush. And at this point, the republicans are being a lot more civil about it.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

As for having morals and not being xtian; I have no doubt whatsoever that there is no God; yet I believe I have high morals. I definitely know the difference in right from wrong.

The two-party system is one of the many things destroying the very fabric of this country.

It makes everyone choose one party or the other. Once elected the reps and senators don't think for themselves or vote as there constituents want them too. They vote along party lines.

I don't consider myself to be conservative, liberal or moderate. I am all over the map. I am far right on some issues; far left on some; undecided or apathetic about others. I think most intelligent people think as I do and the current system doesn't recognize us.

And CM, the democrats did the same things and said exactly the same thing about Bush. And at this point, the republicans are being a lot more civil about it.

On this last point you have got to be kidding! More civil? Joe "you lie" Wilson said that to the president of the United States while speaking to a joint session of congress and the american people.

Jim DeMint saying that he hopes the healthcare would be Obama's waterloo. He wasn't interested in the welfare of the american people, just the downfall of Obama.

He also blocked the Obama appointee to the TSA because the appointee supports union. We know how important the TSA is to airport security and this position is not filled.

Then we have the republican congressmen ducking for cover when news reporters approached them outside (and inside) the capital about whether they thought Pres. Obama was born in the U.S. None would commit. None would say yes, of course. (Actually, I think one might have). My republican congressman ran into and then hid out in the capital bookstore supposedly engrossed in a book for 20 minutes rather than answer the question. Elected congressmen don't think Obama was born in the US. Really? This is civil? Or even sane?

Then you have Dick Cheney who almost daily is bashing Obama about national security. This is almost unprecedented that a former VP publicly criticizes a sitting president. It is very bad protocol. And how hypocritical for the man who was part of the administration who didn't keep us safe on 9/11 and then got EVERYTHING wrong about Iraq (greeted as liberators, there for a few months, maybe a year or two, oil revenues would pay for the war and the biggie: WMD's).

And let's not forget that if anyone DARED criticize bush they would be called unpatriotic, giving comfort to the terrorists, etc..

Then you have Boehner (a/k/a Mr. Coppertone), McCain and Giluiani adding their almost daily criticisms. And of course there's "Obama pals around with terrorists" and he creates "death panels" Palin. Very civil, indeed.

More civil? Hardly!

[tdslf1 0]

I lean all the way to the left and there is nothing, I am pretty sure, wrong or mentally deficient about me.

[~Michelle~ 0]

As for having morals and not being xtian; I have no doubt whatsoever that there is no God; yet I believe I have high morals. I definitely know the difference in right from wrong.

The two-party system is one of the many things destroying the very fabric of this country.

It makes everyone choose one party or the other. Once elected the reps and senators don't think for themselves or vote as there constituents want them too. They vote along party lines.

I don't consider myself to be conservative, liberal or moderate. I am all over the map. I am far right on some issues; far left on some; undecided or apathetic about others. I think most intelligent people think as I do and the current system doesn't recognize us.

And CM, the democrats did the same things and said exactly the same thing about Bush. And at this point, the republicans are being a lot more civil about it.

I agree 100%...Exactly the point I was trying to make.

[~Michelle~ 0]

On this last point you have got to be kidding! More civil? Joe "you lie" Wilson said that to the president of the United States while speaking to a joint session of congress and the american people.

Jim DeMint saying that he hopes the healthcare would be Obama's waterloo. He wasn't interested in the welfare of the american people, just the downfall of Obama.

He also blocked the Obama appointee to the TSA because the appointee supports union. We know how important the TSA is to airport security and this position is not filled.

Then we have the republican congressmen ducking for cover when news reporters approached them outside (and inside) the capital about whether they thought Pres. Obama was born in the U.S. None would commit. None would say yes, of course. (Actually, I think one might have). My republican congressman ran into and then hid out in the capital bookstore supposedly engrossed in a book for 20 minutes rather than answer the question. Elected congressmen don't think Obama was born in the US. Really? This is civil? Or even sane?

Then you have Dick Cheney who almost daily is bashing Obama about national security. This is almost unprecedented that a former VP publicly criticizes a sitting president. It is very bad protocol. And how hypocritical for the man who was part of the administration who didn't keep us safe on 9/11 and then got EVERYTHING wrong about Iraq (greeted as liberators, there for a few months, maybe a year or two, oil revenues would pay for the war and the biggie: WMD's).

And let's not forget that if anyone DARED criticize bush they would be called unpatriotic, giving comfort to the terrorists, etc..

Then you have Boehner (a/k/a Mr. Coppertone), McCain and Giluiani adding their almost daily criticisms. And of course there's "Obama pals around with terrorists" and he creates "death panels" Palin. Very civil, indeed.

More civil? Hardly!

Democrats criticize/bash Bush all the time. Durring the elections Mccain was constantly under attack. I have been called a racist for criticizing Obama.

Of course the Republicans want Obama to fail, just as much as the Democrats wanted Bush to fail. Each party preys on each others short commings and mistakes, because they want their party in office. This definately goes both ways.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Democrats criticize/bash Bush all the time. Durring the elections Mccain was constantly under attack. I have been called a racist for criticizing Obama.

Of course the Republicans want Obama to fail, just as much as the Democrats wanted Bush to fail. Each party preys on each others short commings and mistakes, because they want their party in office. This definately goes both ways.

Clinton and Gore never criticized bush when bush was in office. The democrats didn't have to wish that bush would fail. His policies were failures. And those who criticized bush were called unpatriotic, unamerican and on the side of the terrorists. I haven't seen anyone saying that about the Obama critics even though he is a war president, too.

Criticism during elections is normal - the back and forth, but the election is over and Obama won but McCain and Palin are still in campaign mode. Get over it.

The statement was about civility. And I stand by my analysis.

[btrieger 21]

Clinton and Gore never criticized bush when bush was in office. The democrats didn't have to wish that bush would fail. His policies were failures...

And a health care package that MOST Americans don't want is a success?

I am indifferent to both parties and look at the issues and how they are wasting my money on an individual basis.

I don't see Obama being any more successful than Bush yet.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

And a health care package that MOST Americans don't want is a success?

Obama was elected in part because he promised healthcare reform. This should not have come as a surprise to anyone. If they didn't want healthcare reform he wouldn't have won. But the healthcare reform has been so demonized and people believe the anti-healthcare soundbites without doing the research.

When the healthcare reform is explained to people piece by piece they support the changes in it. Now, I am not happy with the bill as is. I wanted a public option and I don't think it's tough enough on the greedy insurance companies, but I think much of it is good.

[~Michelle~ 0]

Clinton and Gore never criticized bush when bush was in office. The democrats didn't have to wish that bush would fail. His policies were failures. And those who criticized bush were called unpatriotic, unamerican and on the side of the terrorists. I haven't seen anyone saying that about the Obama critics even though he is a war president, too.

Criticism during elections is normal - the back and forth, but the election is over and Obama won but McCain and Palin are still in campaign mode. Get over it.

The statement was about civility. And I stand by my analysis.

I have heard Obama critics be called unpatriotic, and racist. Now I don't have a list of names, dates, times, and or places these remarks were made, but they have been made.

Criticisim durring elections may be normal, but democrats went as far to say that McCain was unpatriotic because he did not salute. There is nothing for me to get over, I was not a huge fan of McCain either.

If you are content living in a world where republicans are the bad guys and democrats are the good guys that's your choice, but I don't feel that's very realistic. It's exactly that type of close mindedness (republican or democrat) that has this country so divided, and will be the reason nothing ever gets resolved.

[btrieger 21]

Obama won the nomination because he was running against the most hated woman in America.

He won the presidency because of McCain's awful choice of one of the dumbest women in America as a running mate.

* Don't blame me, I have not voted for a major party candidate since 1988.

[tdslf1 0]

Btrie,

Sounds like you need to run for office since no one fits your bill.

Another thing, there are some liberals who don't rage against one or the other Repub or Demo. It's called blaming the people in power now. I don't have enough evidence to say this bill will be bad or good. But to call it bad before it even has a chance to be implented, well that's just downright genius since everyone seems to have their own crystal balls that can see the future and how this will turn out for the country. I'm going with the hope that my candidate promised. I don't live in the past and try not to anticipate things I can't control, like the good or bad for our country people seem to think it is. It's pretty much a done deal, folks. 92% of the people can like it or not. Done. Wrapped.

Oh, yeah. I don't think people who critisize Obama are racist. I think quite a few are, but not all. 38 days mind you...........

[btrieger 21]

Btrie,

Sounds like you need to run for office since no one fits your bill.

I should be able to but I can't because I would not affiliate myself with either of the 2 major parties. It's a shame too. I would make a great king!

[Cleo's Mom 257]

From Michelle: Criticisim durring elections may be normal, but democrats went as far to say that McCain was unpatriotic because he did not salute. There is nothing for me to get over, I was not a huge fan of McCain either.

Actually, that was Obama who was criticized for not putting his hand over his heart during the national anthem and for not wearing a flag pin, not McCain. Obama was constantly labeled unpatriotic.

But maybe I missed something. If you can produce the criticism of McCain for not saluting, I would be very interested. Wasn't McCain in the Navy? They don't salute in the Navy.

And P.S. I was saying "get over it" to McCain and Palin about losing and still acting like they are campaigning, not you.