Are you a man, a woman or something else?

[plain 12]

And yes, Nonviolent Studies are also feminist because feminists believe that ALL PEOPLE (young, old, men, women, intersexed, gays, lesbians, *I could go on forever) have a basic human right to feel safe and free from harm.

But the official pro-feminism line is pro choice, so it's not really ALL PEOPLE. I'm not trying to start up a thread that belongs on Rants & Raves RE: feminism, but merely trying to illustrate that issues are complex. I think we all can see the intent of the poll (heck, btrieger stated the purpose in post #1), so maybe we should all take it @ face value, and not hijack a thread to advocate or "educate" on a topic related to the original by a tangent at best.

I think everyone just needs to relax. Is there any way to block certain users who you do not care to see their posts? Just curious. :thumbup:

Yes. Good point. If somebody is getting under one's skin that much, a good solution is to block their posts.

First let's start with some basics.

*Sex - biological characteristics (XX=female, XY=male)

*Gender - socially constructed ideals about males and females

*Transgender - an individual who feels that they are neither male or female OR a male who subscribes to stereotypical female gendered scripts OR a female who identifies with male gender roles

*Transexual - an individual who has reconstructive surgery to alter their reproductive organs to identify with a male or female

*Intersexual - an individual who has intermingled male/female sex characteristics (previously "hermaphroditism")

- This occurs in 1.7% of live human births (Almost 2 out of every 100 babies born)

-How? Typically when a baby is born the genitalia clearly identify the baby as either a male or female, but there are measurements that a doctor can do to check as well. Believe it or not, the clitoris is the equvalent of the penis (external genitalia) (I can explain this too if you'd like).

.5-1cm external genitalia is considered a clitoris (female)

2.5-4.5cm external genitalia is considered a penis (male)

So what about the gap in between?? = INTERSEXUALITY

Many things can cause this to happen:

Turner Syndrome (XO chromosomes) =1 in 2,500 female births (the uterus and ovaries are missing)

Klinefelter Syndrome (XXY chromosomes) 1 in 600 births (small penis/testes, feminized hips, small breasts)

XYY Syndrome = 1 in 1,000 births (males are taller than average)

Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia (CAH) = adrenal glands produce abnormally high amounts of androgens (male hormones) (the individual has a uterus and either a large clitoris or small penis)

Androgen-Insensitivity Syndrome (AIS) = genetic males cannot utilize androgen (they don't have internal reproductive organs, but they do have a small penis)

5 Alpha-Reductase Deficiency = prevents prenatal differentiation of the external genetalia tissue into a penis (there is no penis but the individual has facial hair, deep voice, broad shoulders)

Many times when there is any speculation as to a baby's sex, the doctors perform a surgery that shapes the genitalia into a clitoris, whether or not that baby had ovaries or not....leaving many males with clitorises.

That's a lot of good theory, but in the end, most (granted....not all, but most) of people with the above listed conditions will identify with one gender more than another, regardless of chromosomal make-up or anatomy.

So as you can see, it IS possible for an individual to be neither a male or a female. And who's to say they have to choose?

They'd have to choose in certain situations (places with male / female designated bathrooms only, job applications, census, etc). Again, that's not saying they choose a personal designation for their LIFE, but sometimes they do have to pick. In that context, I think this poll is ok, whether or not the "other" option was genuine concern or snark.

[Just-Ice 1]

I, frankly, am quite sick of the politically correct bs. Everywhere you turn being afraid to say ANYTHING to might upset someones apple cart. Come on people, get over it. You are going to have things said in life that upset you. Not everyone's uptopia is going to exist. How sad is it that we supress our actions and words just to make sure we don't step on someones toes? (ie: had an employee that was afraid to say "black friday" to a black man.) Seriously?? Well.. guess what. I'm going to be authentic this year. That doesn't mean I'm a racist, or a bigit, or just an ass. I don't intentionally hurt peoples feeling, in fact, I am usually the peacekeeper, BUT, I won't turn a conversation around 15 times in my head to make sure on one gets their feelings hurt if it is something I really mean and do say. I don't feel others should have to say I'm "heavy" instead of "fat".. etc...

This p.c. crap is ruining this world.

AND.... for the records, btrieger, you crack me up too!

[GlenSand 1]

Based on the "education" we just received, the choices would have been more accurately: Man Woman or shades of both. There is actually ONLY male or female, no "other" option. This is true throughout all of nature. I can understand having degrees of one or the other, but never can there be another sex! Even if you want it to be...

Also, men, you are a REAL minority based on the poll results... there are almost as many others as there are men!! I'm glad I'm a woman!

[mom.on.the.go 0]

the choices would have been more accurately: Man Woman or shades of both.

not in my opinion. the choices should have been male or female. the facetious/immature inclusion of "other" was unnecessary and regardless of the monday morning quarterbacking -- was included from a place of ignorance or cruelty (both unaceptable in 2010) -- in my opinion.

of the transgendered people that i have real-life familial and communal relationships with i am confident that they will know how to answer a poll that says male or female without looking for "other" or feeling that there should be an "other" option. for example, my male-to-female cousin would most likely check male for the census but because she has presented herself for 20 plus years as a female at work, home, in the public she would use the female restroom for societal ease.

let her figure it out. she doesn't need the unneccesary reminder of "other" (or "it") that she has internally struggled with most of her life.

how would the readers here feel if the poll was

healthy weight

obese

lazy fat disgusting slob

??????

healthy weight/obese = related terms. lazy fat disgusting slob = insult/slur/judgement

male/female = related terms. other = insult/slur/judgement

this is not about being p.c. it is about being a strong, nuturing and inclusive community and society.

i personally did not answer the poll because i think the answer was obvious and i am not interested in playing reindeer games.

all of the above information is based on my lifelong involvement in the gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered community and not on any college courses. now if you want to debate racial relationships in the jim crow south -- i am more than happy to chapter and verse you on those based on my two history degrees....

[btrieger 21]

Would you like some cheese with your whine?

[plain 12]

how would the readers here feel if the poll was

healthy weight

obese

lazy fat disgusting slob

??????

healthy weight/obese = related terms. lazy fat disgusting slob = insult/slur/judgement

male/female = related terms. other = insult/slur/judgement

Right. Gotcha. But my point was that this is simply a poll. No need to expand it to something more on this thread (now, if you want to spark a discussion on this subject....heck, even about the unfairness or insensitivity of this poll.... start a new topic on rants & raves). My analogy would be something like this:

Poll - I sometimes have trouble eating fruit. Does your band tolerate grapes?

Reply#1 - Yes, I can eat grapes.

Reply#2 - No, they make me PB

Reply #3 - You should not be eating grapes. The growers exploit the laborers with substandard wages!!

[scottyd 0]

I know that most of you are women. I am just curious as of the ratio and how many many are going to have to put up with me. :thumbup:

Thanks for responding

We the Men here are very few. I think most men are Not going to ask the questions but will just read the forum. Which I do that most of the time also unless I have a real pressing issue. I have found it that why walk it alone as someone has been that mile already just ask. Somebody has been close to where you are now.

[AirKuhl 1]

Would you like some cheese with your whine?

Lol, make sure it's Laughing Cow you fat, lazy slob!

Putting in the option of "other", which is a completely neutral term, was harmless and non-judgmental. Even if you meant it in jest, it's still a viable option for anyone feeling somewhere in that gray area for physical, mental, societal or other reasons.

Automatically reading in a lot of meaning into the term without knowing the poster or their intent is judgmental and narrow-minded.

As a supporter of gay marriage and equal rights for all races and sexes, it makes me sad to see the zealots undoing all our work by alienating the very people we try to educate.

People need to lighten up, a sense of humor is the lubricant that makes people interact smoothly and eliminates tension and misunderstanding.

[AirKuhl 1]

There is actually ONLY male or female, no "other" option. This is true throughout all of nature.

Just to clear up a common misconception, there are all kinds of species in the world that are not what we commonly consider male or female. There are hermaphroditic species, species that reproduce asexually, species whose sex changes over time, species where one member carries both sperm and ova, species where males carry the young after being impregnated by the female and so on.

As mentioned before, some humans are born with characteristics of both sexes and some completely associate with the sex that doesn't most closely match their physical layout.

Having an "other" option in the poll is a neat way to give an option to any people who don't feel strongly associate to one sex or the other without a lot of tedious terminology, and I applaud the OP for including it.

Edited January 8, 2010 by AirKuhl

[Kat817 19]

Lol, make sure it's Laughing Cow you fat, lazy slob!

Putting in the option of "other", which is a completely neutral term, was harmless and non-judgmental. Even if you meant it in jest, it's still a viable option for anyone feeling somewhere in that gray area for physical, mental, societal or other reasons.

Automatically reading in a lot of meaning into the term without knowing the poster or their intent is judgmental and narrow-minded.

As a supporter of gay marriage and equal rights for all races and sexes, it makes me sad to see the zealots undoing all our work by alienating the very people we try to educate.

People need to lighten up, a sense of humor is the lubricant that makes people interact smoothly and eliminates tension and misunderstanding.

Just quoting it, because I could not say it better, and in actuality nowhere near as well!!!

GREAT sentiment, I agree whole heartedly!

[janellody 3]

AirKuhl wins!

[shangefan 193]

I'm not sure why there is so much negativity directed toward K-statearmywife. Her initial post was quite brief and respectful. She was asked to educate and did so. At that point, the sarcastic and, in my opinion, very rude, comments began. This is not about the PC police or zealots. It is about the reality that we live in a world where there are NOT only males and females. Basic biology makes this clear. No one has to like it, but it is a fact.

And while folks are being authentic and saying what they want this year, I wonder how they will respond if others do the same and make degrading comments about obese folks.

[Humming Bird 275]

it was all about the arrogance

[TwilightLover83 0]

it was all about the arrogance

I agree w/ Humming Bird 100% Also I think she came off as rude.

[shangefan 193]

Well, there were lots of rude and arrogant comments on this topic. She was hardly alone and I do believe she simply responded to the question she was asked. Seems to me that something other than that is going on. But I'm checking out of this one.