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Actually, let me put my .02 as a mental health professional here-- it is absolutely not the original posters responsibility to do anything more than she has. I think she's said numerous times that she doesn't know who the surgeon is-- she's talked to her friend, talked to her husband, and now for her own mental health she is doing the right thing by stepping away. The number one problem of friends and families of alcoholics is assuming responsibility in situations just like this and any Al-Anon or psychologist is going to say the same. The alcoholic's behavior and the consequences of that behavior are absolutely not the poster's responsibility, but the alcoholic's responsibility. Ultimately, the people responsible for uncovering alcoholism is the psychologist who did the psych eval and the surgeon who is doing the surgery. There are ways to discover this if you do a thorough enough eval. It is a sad situation, but brow-beating this woman who seems to have really tried in this situation seems unnecessary to me, and I say that having the utmost respect for you, BetsyB.

This sounds serious and is a definite contraindication. If she will not listen to you, I would play "narc" and call her doctor's office. While they cannot discuss her case with you, there is no reason you cannot express your concern. She could have serious complications including malnutrition and alcohol poisoning. Don't delay.

So I have an incredibly controversial and rather personal question for the lovely people of BariatricPal. I’ll be upfront, I’m a 20 year old guy in college so pre-op I was a party animal. My question doesn’t relate to alcohol but to illicit-drug use.. I understand this is a super touchy subject but is there anyone that would be willing to share how they get felt or reacted to the use of illicit drugs (molly, snow, bars etc.)

I drink. I never stopped drinking. I've drunk alcohol all my banded life. But I'm also aware that alcohol are empty calories and breaks my doctor's first rule of 'don't drink your calories' but as long as I either burn it off with exercise or realise it is going to make it harder to lose (or even gain if I drink enough) then I'm happy to own that decision.

@@Dub ... that is one of the best, most helpful responses on the fraught topic of alcohol consumption for WLS patients I've ever read. Thank you. @@Nikkipit ... my personal experience with alcohol and WLS is that pre-op I was a social drinker -- having a single drink most (not all) evenings. FYI, my husband doesn't drink simply because he doesn't enjoy the taste or the experience. Back to me ... I didn't drink any alcohol for 2.5 months pre-op or for 6 months post-op. Thereafter, I began having a glass of wine (4-5 ounces) or 1.5 ounces of single-malt scotch most evenings before dinner. At 8.5 months post-op, I reached my weight loss goal (150 pounds). I'm now 20.5 months post-op, have weighed 135 pounds for the last 5 months and am maintaining easily. A single drink is still part of my menu most days. I don't think everyone can safely drink post-op. It worries me a bit when I read here about younger patients (especially those in their twenties) struggling with the desire or need to drink socially with their friends in bars, as young people are wont to do. I also know what "girls nights out" are like. And they don't typically involve a single 5-ounce pour of chardonnay. If you can handle the peer and environmental pressure in social settings like that, then more power to you. I do think you're going to find out how much you really like to drink. And you'll need to be honest with yourself about how big a role alcohol should play in your life. I'll close with the question my psychologist asked me a few months ago when I raised the subject of alcohol use: "Why do you drink?" I told him I enjoyed the tastes and the celebration of high-quality alcohol. (He knows I'm a "social drinker" -- defined for women as having no more than a single drink/day and 7 drinks/week.) He responded that he would become concerned if my alcohol intake increased as an emotional response to events in my environment. (And trust me, I do currently have some "events in my environment" -- as most of us do and will always have.) That's my story -- for now. As @@Dub said, things could change.

I won't judge you......hoping you don't judge me. Granted, everyone's sleeve experience is limited to an army of one......themselves......I will tell you how I've proceeded as far as alcohol is concerned. I began last June with a bariatric surgeon affiliated with the area's largest hospital...a place that I'd had success with on prior orthopedic type surges to repair stuff I'd torn up being stupid. He was firmly against three things for his patients: never again smoking, never again having caffeine and never again drinking alcohol. I was with that program 3 months and then my insurance company played the ultimate trump card....they'd only fund wls if I went with a "center of excellence". So.....I swapped over to such a program. They are affiliated with a much smaller local hospital in town. A couple things happened upon switching over.....I discovered that my cost would actually be lower if I simply did 100% self pay (crazy scenario....long story) and I discovered that my new surgeon was uber experienced and had a high level of confidence and approached things.....life choices of his patients.....in a very realistic way. I told him during my two month check in that I wanted coffee. He said, "Sure...I drink two cups a day, why can't you?". I told him during my 4 month check in that I wanted occasional mixed drinks (with skinny mixers) and that I wasn't losing the weight just to live like a monk. He paused at that and gave me a sly grin. He acknowledged that life is best when lived fully. He was very direct about his concerns with drinking. He said that my sleeve would handle it....but could I ? Would I chose to drink responsibly ? Would a couple of drinks lose me up and pave to way towards a poor food choice ? Would I begin drinking beer again (highly caloric beers were my favorites before...go figure)? He then said, "I have a couple glasses of wine when I'm unwinding sometimes....why can't you?" I was glad to hear this and I weighed his advisements heavily. Wanting something....and then being told you can have it brought on some odd feels. It was like I really wanted to bust loose...but then once given the reins....I sorta dug in and shied away for a while. I do enjoy drinks on the weekends. Skinny mixed drinks. An ounce or two of premium vodka on the rocks topped off with a splash of diet 5 calorie Ocean Spray is the normal adult beverage. I'll order similar when I'm going out somewhere. I've found that the drinks do impact me harder than prior to surgery. I think a big part of that is simply due to not eating much of anything along with or after drinking. I keep a calorie tally in my head and I carve out calorie space for the alcohol calories. I don't want to let the occasional weekend enjoyment derail my weight loss. I'll only eat packs of tuna, hardboiled eggs or Protein powder shakes to get my protein on such days. I have learned to limit the frequency and that consecutive days of enjoyment are not well tolerated by my body. A couple of drinks on a Friday night....and then on Saturday night are it. I shut it down for the week then. I learned the limits of what I can tolerate on two recent vacations. One was a bar hopping me-only trip to a place known for fun nightlife. I was sorta proud of how I navigated the potential perils that week. I did okay. I was faced with many temptations, yet I picked and chose wisely. The most recent was a 7-day cruise taken with my wife a month ago. It didn't begin well for her....she was stressed out bigtime by a few delays the ship encountered at departure and a skipped port that resulted. I chose to have enough fun for the two of us that week. By mid week I was getting down with the flow of things onboard and having a bit too much fun. I shut it down for a couple days and killed it in the gym and hot tubs. I did have a big night towards the end.....and didn't fool with the stuff for quite some time after getting home. Again....your surgeon may have different instructions than mine did. I've seen firsthand how they lay down different ground rules. I had sleeve surgery to improve my life. Being able to enjoy some drinks.....in moderation....in social situations....isn't counter to me improving my life. My decisions and approach are not posted here as advice to anyone....simply to reply how I'm currently operating. I may change tactics one day....who knows? For now, though.....it's working. I'm down a good chunk of the weight I wanted to lose and can see reaching and even exceeding my goal. I've picked up some good habits along the way and feel I have a good plan for living lean. I wish you the best and encourage you to seek the advice from your surgeon. Know that they may give you a firm no as my first surgeon did. I get that. They are, after all, accustomed to dealing with people who don't demonstrate self control and discipline. Why the hell would they say, "Sure, have a drink". I get that. I'm grateful that my surgeon possessed extremely high levels of confidence in both his skills, his experience and in me. I'd sort of proven myself to him by the time we had the alcohol discussion. I'm quite sure this was a factor in his response. Had the discussion been had in the pre-op days.....he'd probably have been way more firm. It's all about your overall goals and what you are going to do to meet them. I wish you the best. Having a partner that is willing to slow down is a good thing. Perhaps you'll get him to join you in some other hobbies.....active hobbies.

When is it ok to have like wine, or light alcohol? Im 2 months post op and miss wine like crazy!

My NUT was kind of judgey and acted like you were an alcoholic if you ever wanted to drink again. I waited 3 months. I'm 6 months out now and I'll have a couple of drinks a month. Usually wine or sometimes beer that I let fizz out for a bit. I do get drunk super fast and also sober up super fast. I never get sick and I don't get a headache or anything. You're basically going to have to learn to drink again. I just pace myself.

I did the pouch reset. It helped me get back on track I have lost 10 more lbs in 8days . Alot is water weight but it made me look at things different . It resets your head too. It isn't easy but it works and the uncomfortable feeling is back when you eat to much so I make sure I am minding my p's and q's. And dotting my no beer either and I love my beer. It is best to stay away from that stuff because the alcohol numbs the stomach and you also eat to much at least I did . Please look up pouch reset. And get yourself back on track you can do this . We all have an awsome tool . I was 458lbs when I started this journey and I am now back down to 268lbs. So it works . Mind set, mind set ,mind set Sent from my SM-G935V using the BariatricPal App

This is a EXCELLENT article, Debster!! Thanks for posting it!!! I was a major beer drinker prior to getting my band (on June 3rd). I guarantee beer was a lot of the reason I put on so much weight in the first place!! Not only did I consume a ton of empty calories, but I would binge eat afterward. Then, the next day my blood sugar was all out of whack so I would eat the wrong foods. For me, my decision was to completely stop drinking alcohol once I got banded. I do worry about transfer of addictions. Everyone is different, though.

Hi guys! I was banded May 27 and I am 15 pounds down and holding! I lost the 15 in the first week and a half... but have stayed the same for the last 2 weeks! Anywho...how long was it before you started drinking alcohol? I am just nervous that I might get extremely ill! Feedback is helpful!!!

I had a similar incident in a store - vasovagal response brought on by pain (starting my period always is super painful) and a combo of being dehydrated and having not eaten in around 6 hours. I used up my reserve sugars fighting through the vasovagal response and that dropped me right into a low blood sugar episode. I was lucky that I recognized what was happening fast enough to do something about it - I ate about 4 mints out of my purse and then was able to hobble to the front desk to ask for help. The store almost called an ambulance but I begged them not to and told them just get me a soda and I'd be fine - so I laid on their floor behind their service desk sipping a soda. Turns out I was right. I didn't actually pass out, but it was close for a while there. The joys of weight loss surgery side effects, huh? I would not drink alcohol on an empty stomach, and I would not drink more than one or two over the whole night either since alcohol is pretty much empty sugar calories. It will really screw you up.

The only time I nearly passed out was when getting out of bed, pretty sure it was dehydration, I'm no doctor but my first thought was blood sugar, then read about the cake along with the alcohol. Sometimes your blood sugar spikes and then falls so low it can cause issues like slurring and passing out. It seem to me it would have showed up in the ambulance,

I waited about 8 weeks to try a half glass of wine. in the last 4 months since then I've had a glass of wine maybe 4 times & maybe 3 vodka cocktails. I always make sure I've had enough Protein for the day & I always keep a glass of Water going at the same time. Drinking alcohol hasn't given me any problems, but it does seem like I feel the effects quicker. That may be because I'm drinking less than I used to preop, though, and not because of the surgery itself.

Here are a couple of items of note: 1. In 1990, Blum found a correlation between alcoholism and a genetic deficiency in dopamine-binding receptors in the brain, called D2 receptors. People with compromised D2 receptors seek higher thrills to satisfy their reward cravings than people with normal D2 receptors, Blum believes. He predicts that gastric bypass patients with a D2 deficiency turn to other high-reward activities, such as drinking alcohol, because they can’t binge eat with a constricted stomach. 2. There’s little evidence of higher alcoholism rates after a different common bariatric surgery: gastric banding. Also known as lap banding, this surgery installs an inflatable belt around the stomach to constrict it. Unlike gastric bypass, banding does not permanently alter the stomach’s architecture. The difference between the two surgeries suggests that alcohol abuse is related to structural changes from gastric bypass, said Alexis Conason, a New York City psychologist and researcher. In 2012, Conason published a study in JAMA Surgery that found a significant increase in alcohol use for patients after gastric bypass, but not gastric banding. The study also found no significant increase in patients’ use of other drugs, including cigarettes, or compulsive behaviors such as gambling. “If it were addiction transfer, we’d be seeing it across the board,” Conason said. Researchers have proposed a few physiological explanations for increased alcoholism specifically after gastric bypass. Some believe it’s due to changes in alcohol metabolism, since alcohol enters the bloodstream more quickly in a smaller stomach. A 2011 study from surgeons at Stanford University found that six months after surgery, gastric bypass patients reached higher blood alcohol levels more quickly than they did before surgery. This type of fast and high peak often characterizes addictive drugs, said North Dakota’s Mitchell. Cocaine and heroin, for example, both produce brief, intense rushes that leave users wanting more. But it’s also possible that increased alcohol dependence has nothing to do with alcohol absorption in the stomach. Recently, a team of researchers led by neuroscientists at the Pennsylvania State University College of Medicine found that rats that had been given gastric bypasses developed a higher dependence on alcohol. Here’s the twist: the effect held even when the rats were given alcohol intravenously instead of orally. The authors concluded that alcohol abuse after gastric bypass could very well occur independently of how quickly alcohol passes from the gut to the bloodstream. Instead, anatomical changes to the stomach might impact patients’ dopamine response, the Penn State researchers suggested. Some scientists have found that gastric bypass surgery can alter the signaling of D2 receptors. The mechanism for this is unclear, although preliminary research has identified altered patterns of gene expression in areas of the brain that process dopamine. Other researchers suggest that appetite-mediating gut hormones play a role, particularly those that affect dopamine signaling, such as insulin, leptin and grehlin. Scientists have shown that leptin and grehlin levels change after gastric bypass surgery, and both hormones are known to modulate alcohol consumption. http://scienceline.org/2015/01/alcoholism-after-gastric-bypass-is-it-in-your-mind-or-gut/

I like this but I think the alcoholism transference is more complicated than soothing with alcohol instead of food. We are skipping the mental component that a lot of people didn't really live life before WLS and are now enjoying life, sometimes in a way they never did before, and they are just going off the rails on partying. Some of us did that in College when everyone else was doing it, no need to repeat. There are other people that never had that chance and didn't learn the lessons of partying early on (all parties are the same, seriously, facts, thus one doesn't matter more than the next). Which is why more comprehensive post-op therapy is necessary for a lot of people. I don't want to derail this convo, I like where this is going but I still feel like everyone really ignores the mental and emotional aspects of massive weight loss for some people.

@@Lexuskela The deprivation diets made me focus way to much on food. I talked and complained exactly like your example.It was my focus before surgery. Now food is just a way to fuel my body ..I move on. What bothers me more is when I see the food commercials, pharmaceutical commercials that have a cure for anything, crazy diets commercials. Alcohol commercials that tell people that in order to have a good time you have to drink their brand. Drive down a street and count how many fast food restaurants do you see. Food cooking shows, Travel shows that highlight the best restaurants. Marketing to women to wear a certain style and size. I now watch netflix..NO COMMERCIALS~

For perfume, my current faves are Kenzo Jungle L'Elephant (super-spicy, but I love it so much), and some Middle-Eastern attar oils that I got as a blind-buy from Ebay. One of my coworkers had one and I loved it so much that I bought it and two more. The brand is Al-Rehab, and the oils are AMAZING and the scents last so much longer than a regular perfume because they have no alcohol in them. Another of my prized perfumes is Hermes L'Ambre des Merveilles. Since I don't smoke and I don't drink a lot, I tend to splurge on duty-free perfumes when I travel (usually cruises). I'm also a make-up addict, even though I very rarely wear it. I absolutely love Cargo's long-wearing glosses (I think it's a different formulation than the ones you can get at Kohl's) and Tarina Tarantino's gem glosses (picked up for a steal at Nordstrom Rack). I like Dior's Addict Fluid Stick, too. They're pricey ($35), but they really last a long time and they really do wonders at making my lips look fuller. ' I really want to try out the ColourPop brand. You have to buy it online, but the prices are extremely good ($5/eyeshadow), and the rest of the line is not much more expensive) and they're generally very well reviewed. I have super-picky, sensitive skin, so I have to be very careful about what I put on it. Even a lot of stuff made for sensitive skin will break me out (Origins' sensitive line, for example, even though I love the way it smells). I am currently using Cerave Hydrating Cleanser, which I was extremely surprised that it worked, since usually drug-store brands of skin care break me out horribly. It's been the best thing ever for my skin! It has no foaming/suds action at all, so it feels like a lotion, but you wash it off and your skin is perfectly clean.

I am not a drinker but have have a few special nights coming up. These are the only types of alcohol i enjoy. Does anyone else drink these? I know we are not supposed to drink bubbles after but......

Bless your heart! I will freak out if that happens... I am glad they didn't proceed if it was risky, but yuck! My preop liver shrink diet is low carb, 3 Protein shakes a day. No alcohol. What's your starting weight if you don't mind me asking? Have you ever been diagnosed with a fatty liver?

@Tallysfunny - my father threatened to take me off his health insurance policy and then when that didn't scare me, he threatened my suregon. Said he'd find something to hold against him. It was my surgeon who ultimately decided that he was uncomfortable doing my surgery and denied me as a patient even after my consent forms were signed and everything. And unfortunately, I don't know if I'll ever be at peace with any decision. If I don't do it, my heath will continue a steady decline. If I go through with it and my dad finds out, my relationship with him will be at its lowest point yet. So.. I just don't know. :/ @Chitowngirl - I was also on 2000mg of Metformin, for all five years. Part of it, I was switched on and off of both the generic name (gluphenogue or something like that) and extended release on both, also. But good Lord, did that medicine tear up my stomach something awful. And after numerous bouts or nausea/vomiting on it, I'd still gain weight. I'm mighty impressive, huh? @BigGirlPanties - first of all, what a fabulous username! I do have the support of my friends and roommates. The first go around, I had my mom's support but she can't find it in her to support me this time. She has said that if I do this, she doesn't want to know anything about it. I hope that it didn't come off that my father and I have a good relationship, because we don't. We're at each other's throats all the time, especially after he stopped me from doing this the first time. He's a recovering alcoholic that firmly believes that every single problem can be solved with a twelve step program and he also firmly believes that by doing this, I'm taking the easy way out. Hell no - he's got no idea what he's talking about. @jh5497 - That's exactly what I've been thinking and I feel like if I don't do this, I'm not doing it because I want to keep my parents happy and in turn, making myself miserable. I'm really, really stuck. And I was thinking that I could do this and keep it under wraps from my dad - I'm a junior in college with an apartment by school so he doesn't see me that often. I don't think he would think anything amiss if I was losing a few (a lot?) of pounds every six/eight weeks when he saw me, right? Haha I've had a lot of time to toss this all around. Thanks so much for your replies. I have a lot to consider. Tomorrow, I'm actually going to go to a seminar for a new surgeon and see how that goes. Going to make an appointment for next week and sit down with him and get a feel for what he thinks. I'm just keeping my fingers crossed and hoping everything falls into place.

My program has a strict NO ALCOHOL policy for 1 year post-op. I even had to sign a contract with my surgeon pre-op!

I understand that... As my surgery date is coming I desire alcohol more.. anyone else?

Caution: Some soft drinks may seriously harm your health Expert links additive to cell damage By Martin Hickman, Consumer Affairs Correspondent Published: 27 May 2007 A new health scare erupted over soft drinks last night amid evidence they may cause serious cell damage. Research from a British university suggests a common preservative found in drinks such as Fanta and Pepsi Max has the ability to switch off vital parts of DNA. The problem - more usually associated with ageing and alcohol abuse - can eventually lead to cirrhosis of the liver and degenerative diseases such as Parkinson's. The findings could have serious consequences for the hundreds of millions of people worldwide who consume fizzy drinks. They will also intensify the controversy about food additives, which have been linked to hyperactivity in children. Concerns centre on the safety of E211, known as sodium benzoate, a preservative used for decades by the £74bn global carbonated drinks industry. Sodium benzoate derives from benzoic acid. It occurs naturally in berries, but is used in large quantities to prevent mould in soft drinks such as Sprite, Oasis and Dr Pepper. It is also added to pickles and sauces. Sodium benzoate has already been the subject of concern about cancer because when mixed with the additive Vitamin C in soft drinks, it causes benzene, a carcinogenic substance. A Food Standards Agency survey of benzene in drinks last year found high levels in four brands which were removed from sale. Now, an expert in ageing at Sheffield University, who has been working on sodium benzoate since publishing a research paper in 1999, has decided to speak out about another danger. Professor Peter Piper, a professor of molecular biology and biotechnology, tested the impact of sodium benzoate on living yeast cells in his laboratory. What he found alarmed him: the benzoate was damaging an important area of DNA in the "power station" of cells known as the mitochondria. He told The Independent on Sunday: "These chemicals have the ability to cause severe damage to DNA in the mitochondria to the point that they totally inactivate it: they knock it out altogether. "The mitochondria consumes the oxygen to give you energy and if you damage it - as happens in a number if diseased states - then the cell starts to malfunction very seriously. And there is a whole array of diseases that are now being tied to damage to this DNA - Parkinson's and quite a lot of neuro-degenerative diseases, but above all the whole process of ageing." The Food Standards Agency (FSA) backs the use of sodium benzoate in the UK and it has been approved by the European Union but last night, MPs called for it to investigate urgently. Norman Baker, the Liberal Democrat chair of Parliament's all-party environment group said: "Many additives are relatively new and their long-term impact cannot be certain. This preservative clearly needs to be investigated further by the FSA." A review of sodium benzoate by the World Health Organisation in 2000 concluded that it was safe, but it noted that the available science supporting its safety was "limited". Professor Piper, whose work has been funded by a government research council, said tests conducted by the US Food and Drug Administration were out of date. "The food industry will say these compounds have been tested and they are complete safe," he said. "By the criteria of modern safety testing, the safety tests were inadequate. Like all things, safety testing moves forward and you can conduct a much more rigorous safety test than you could 50 years ago." He advised parents to think carefully about buying drinks with preservatives until the quantities in products were proved safe by new tests. "My concern is for children who are drinking large amounts," he said. Coca-Cola and Britvic's Pepsi Max and Diet Pepsi all contain sodium benzoate. Their makers and the British Soft Drinks Association said they entrusted the safety of additives to the Government. :drum:

Tomorrow is my three-year anniversary. I stayed at my goal weight pretty easily for the first 18 months but gained about 20 pounds over the past year. I'm eating the same things as I did during the first year, but more of them. My diet is still high protein, low carb, low fat, and no sugar (or alcohol). I'm satisfied with my current weight, but now I really need to be careful to make sure I don't creep up. It's definitely harder than it was during the first 18 months or so, but I'll never go back to my old way of eating (nor anywhere near my previous weight).