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Kat225, No offense taken. I guess I felt the need to explain my position becasue I was described as "cold" and the person alluded that I felt superior to others because I choose to use some willpower during the time between banding and a good restriction level, so I was a bit defensive. I apologize to you that I felt I had to defend myself against your post. I have said many times, that I understand "bandsters hell" and there have been days when i struggled, too. I tried to suggest that it is possible to control our choices, even if we can't always control the quantity and similar phrases. I mean we have all dieted before, so isn't it possible to try dieting one more time until we get that long awaited restriction, that we all crave and know we need. That was the message I was trying to get out there. That sitting around waiting for restriction was not helpful to our cause. Your opinion might differ from mine, although I don't think it does very much and I agree that people have a right to their opinion. I took offense to the words "cold" and "negative" ( not used by you) going around the thread simply becasue some of us choose to try hard to stay on track. I do not feel that makes me superior, perhaps just further in the journey. If the other person got that from my response then I guess she wasn't ready to accept the message. Actually you have echoed words I have said for many years. We don't tell an alcoholic to have three small drinks a day, we don't tell a drug addict to have three small hits a day or a smoker to have three small cigs a day, but we are told to just have three small meals a day. Well, you can live without cigs, drinks and drugs but you cannot survive without food, so where does that leave us? Thanks for the response, Kat! I appreciate it.

My doctor put no alcohol on the paper like that's going to happen. So what I want to know is how long does it take to leave your system?

I have found that I react to alcohol the same way I did before I was sleeved. I was a big partyer when I was younger and now one or two drinks is plenty; as Indymom noted, alcohol is empty calories. I have no idea how long it takes to leave my system but I don't wake up with a hangover after one or two screwdrivers.

Very possibly. Many VSG patients have reflux post-op. For some it resolves with time, for others it ends up being fairly permanent. The good news is that it is quite well controlled with medication (a proton-pump inhibitor (PPI) such as Omeprazole (Prilosec) often by itself or in combination with another med). There are many theories as to the why patients develop Gastro-esophageal reflux disease (GERD) post VSG surgery: 1. The new long narrow shape of the stomach make the mobility of the acids more easily progress up into the esophagus. 2. The sphincter muscle between the esophagus and the stomach many have mobility issues post-op due to the surgery. Often these will resolve with time and healing. In some cases, there may have been some scarring or injury to the sphincter during surgery that can result in a more permanent condition. 3. During post-op healing (which can take up to 6 months to fully heal), the lining of the stomach is very sensitive and more likely to react to the acids being produced. This can cause some spasms that may push the acids upward into the esophagus. 4. Some patients may develop a hiatus hernia. A hiatus hernia is a widening of the diaphragm at the point where the esophagus passes from the chest into the abdomen. When you have a hiatus hernia, the stomach slips into the chest and the sphincter at the end of the esophagus is less effective. The hiatus hernia can be surgically repaired (and often patients have this pre-op and it is found during VSG surgery and it is repaired during the VSG!), which should also help resolve the sphincter mobility problems. 5. And of course, eating foods that irritate the stomach or cause excess acid production, such as citrus fruits, tomatoes, garlic, onions, spicy foods, foods high in fat, alcohol, and caffeine should be avoided in the early post-op stage. If you are progressing well following the elimination of many of the foods suggested above and are taking a PPI, you can begin to try to reintroduce one of these foods at a time and assess your tolerance. Laying down after eating can also increase the likelihood of GERD and should be avoided. Good luck!

A Post-Op & A Doc (Cari De La Cruz and Connie Stapleton, Ph.D.) have officially designated 2015 as the Year of Recovery. There are just six, basic ingredients, which, if added to your life, can help you reach and manage your goals to lose weight and keep it off. The good news is: 1) You already have everything you need to begin following the recipe. 2) It doesn’t involve shellfish, peanuts or milk, so you can’t possibly be allergic to it, 3) There is no baking, cooking, sautéing or mixing required, because the Recipe for Recovery doesn’t involve food, but does involve eating. We like to say that obesity is “all about the food, but it isn’t about the food” (which makes you wonder why we’re talking about a recipe and ingredients). Well, let’s start here: Do you eat when you’re upset, stressed or worried? What are you eating to avoid? Are you eating to avoid a person? a situation? a feeling? By following the Recipe for Recovery, you can learn to deal directly with any upset, stress or worry related to any “what” or “who” so you don’t need to turn to food for a short-term “high” or “fix.” Here’s another one: Do you eat when you’re bored? What do you need when you’re bored? Are you in need of a hobby? Companionship? What are you doing to find a healthy hobby or seek healthy companionship so you don’t automatically turn to food? These are some of the important questions you’ll begin to ask yourself as you learn follow the Recipe for Recovery. We know these are tough things to think about – especially when we’re busy plotting our next snack or obsessing about the box of donuts in the break room at work – fortunately, you don’t need to answer these questions BEFORE you can begin choosing to live in Recovery From Obesity. In other words, you don’t have to know what, where, or why in order to stop the destructive eating behaviors. Basically, food is often a SYMPTOM of a problem – not THE PROBLEM. For example, you might have a problem with interpersonal relationships or issues at work, or perhaps a battle within yourself – like an “emotional storm” -- where you say really mean, negative, unpleasant things TO yourself ABOUT yourself. Rather than addressing the problem, you turn to food, so food becomes the focus rather than the actual problem! Unfortunately, food is a temporary (very temporary) reprieve from unpleasant feelings, memories, or thoughts and though it provides a chemically induced euphoria…it’s short-lived. What is true for the alcoholic is also true for people who abuse themselves with food, which means the problem will still be there when the food is gone…. and then you have the hangover to deal with -- usually in the form of self-brutality by way of horrendously abusive self-talk. Yikes! We created the Recipe for Recovery from Obesity to help you learn to deal with the real issues (stress, worry, boredom, frustration, fear) in healthy ways (and to hopefully avoid the self-destructive eating and subsequent emotional hangovers). Here are the six ingredients that make up the Recipe for Recovery: 1. AWARENESS: Awareness is always the first step in change, which is why we refer to it as the essential ingredient to weight loss and weight-management. It’s pretty hard to change something you’re not aware of. You might know that you’re obese, but are you aware of how you are contributing to the problem? Maybe you’re stuck in your weight loss journey, or you’re regaining, or you never made it to your “goal” – you’re aware that there’s a problem – but you don’t know what to do next. Becoming AWARE of your issues is the place to start. 2. ACCEPTANCE: This is often an overlooked ingredient in weight loss/management. If you don’t accept that weight and the associated issues are ongoing problems in your life, then it’ll be pretty difficult to make the necessary changes to lose that weight and keep it off! The truth is, there are many things we need to accept in our journeys of weight loss/management that you may not have ever considered, such as the fact that you’ll have to eat right and exercise regularly, and will probably have to forego (or greatly limit) some of the foods you really love. The process of acceptance may include having some anger, fear and even mourning. Accept it – and get on with the process! 3. ATTITUDE: We call this the flavorful ingredient (and for some of us, this one is pretty spicy!) We all have different “tastes” when it comes to food… and life, which means that we don’t all like the same things or do the same things in exactly the same ways! Variety is the spice of life? Well, we think attitude is the FLAVOR of recovery! Focusing on attitude and having a positive one can make all the difference in your Recovery results! 4. COMMITMENT: You’ll use this staple ingredient at least once (and sometimes several times) each day in your Recovery journey, especially when you inevitably develop a case of the “I-don’t-wannas” – you know, those moments when you just “don’t wanna…” workout…log your food…manage your portions, pass on the cookies, etc. Adding a dash or a splash of commitment to your life helps you make the next wise choice. Every wise choice moves you toward your desired goals – a healthier self and a better quality of life. 5. ACCOUNTABILITY: Often quite underused, Accountability is an ingredient to help ensure the recipe is prepared as directed. We know it can be tempting to try to do things your own way, and we also know how that’s worked in the past! That’s where accountability really brings the Recipe for Recovery to life! Use accountability to do what you said you’d do when you began your weight loss journey. Whether you chose surgery, medically supervised weight loss, or another structured program, you agreed to do certain things, so this ingredient really matters. Hold yourself accountable for following through with doing the things you said you would do to get the weight off and keep the weight off. 6. EFFORT: The sixth (and key) ingredient in the Recipe for Recovery is Effort. Without ongoing, consistent, “use-it-whether-you-feel-like-it-or-not” – continual effort, the recipe will NOT turn out the way you want. Let us repeat: Your Recovery will NOT be successful if you do NOT use this key ingredient. When you put forth effort, you see results in the direction you are working toward. When you withhold efforts, you also see results – but not the ones you want! And, guess what? You can’t overuse this ingredient, so add it liberally and realize the fullness of a life in Recovery! It may sound like a lot of work, but if you want what you say you want (a healthy life in Recovery From Obesity) -- these ingredients really add up to a winning result!

Hello to all my sleeve sisters. I had quite a few days of catching up with everyones postings. Was sorry to hear of the troubles of some and glad to hear of those who are rockin their sleeves! I am 16 days out from surgery and also having some issues with the soft foods my program allows, doing alright with the fluids most days. I hate the stuck feeling I get after eating only 2-3 bites of an egg, and have thrown up a few times. Some days I regret doing this to myself but I also regret that I let myself get so fat!!! Reading the posts of my sleeve sisters helps so much as I don't feel so alone in all this. My center has support meetings but the few I attended were weird b***h sessions about the not smoking and being allowed alcohol.....which I am sure are tough if you have those things to give up but I was looking for more of a nutritional and lifestyle support group. Thanks for listening. My prayers are with you all!

This week I started a weekly Wednesday night Facebook Live series called Food Addiction: FAIR and FIRM. During the program, I commented that when I was told, “Connie, you’re an addict,” after the initial shock wore off, I felt a tremendous sense of relief. For the first time in my life, certain things made sense to me. Let me speak to the shock part first. Yes, I drank - a lot – in college. So did everyone else I knew. So did everyone in my family. In fact, most of the people in my family drank a whole lot more than I ever did! After I got married, I quit drinking on a regular basis. When I did drink after that, I usually drank to get drunk – true. It’s also true that I drank less after I got married because I started taking codeine – very rarely, at first – for bad migraine headaches. Over time, however, I took it daily because codeine helped me to not feel. Anything. At most, I took maybe three in a day. I thought addicts took lots and lots of pills! So when I was given the alcohol and drug addiction screening, I was certain I wouldn’t meet any criteria for alcoholic, and most definitely not for drug addict. Well, I got one heck of a case of the “Yeah buts…” in a hurry when the therapist said, after scoring my test, “Connie – you’re an alcoholic and a drug addict.” As she talked to me about the items that indicated addiction on the test, every one of my responses to her started with, “Yeah, but…” For example, “Yeah, but I could have answered that question either way.” “Yeah, but I don’t drink nearly as much as most of the people I know, especially the people in my family.” “Yeah, but, drug addicts take a lot of pills throughout the day.” “Yeah, but I was able to take care of my kids and work and go to school.” “Yeah, but I’ve never been in trouble with the law.” When I had exhausted all the “Yeah, buts” I could think of, imagine or create, I got quiet and let it sink in. I am an addict. And then I felt it. Relief. It made sense. What made sense to me about my being an addict is understanding, for the first time, the reasons I continued to do things that went against my own values. I started to understand the reasons I did things I said I would never do. It began to make sense that things I promised I would stop doing seemed impossible to stop doing. I am an addict. I have a disease that “hijacks” the brain. When I am in active addiction of any kind: the disease of addiction that affects my brain doesn’t allow me to listen to reason but stays locked in denial mode the disease of addiction that affects my emotions keeps me in a protective mode so I defend myself by blaming other people and things for my behavior the disease of addiction that affects my spiritual self says, “do what feels good in the moment” and hides the part of me that says, “what I value is good and decent” the disease of addiction that affects my social self, brings out the loud, obnoxious, hurtful voice I am capable of using the disease of obesity that affects my physical being takes dangerous risks, eats poorly, doesn’t exercise and doesn’t care Accepting the truth that I am an addict was a relief. NOT AN EXCUSE. I understood my poor choices better. It made sense that it was so difficult for me to follow through with the convictions I made to myself and the promises I made to others. I began to understand why my behaviors went against the person I wanted to be. Addiction is a brain sickness and a soul sickness. And a protector. All at the same time. Food, alcohol, shopping, pain medication, and other things I engaged in addictively protected me from my feelings. That is what I wanted most of all. To not feel. I didn’t want to feel the reality of my sadness, my anger, my pain and my shame. The trade-off for not feeling was to use addictive substances/behaviors and betray myself by doing things I was embarrassed about, ashamed of, and seemingly unable to control. Being an addict was in no way an excuse for the behaviors I engaged in. It’s very uncool to use being an addict as a way to avoid taking responsibility. “I danced with the boss’s husband at the holiday party. What can say – I was drunk.” NOT COOL. “I told her off but she had it coming and besides – I was drunk and couldn’t keep my mouth shut.” NOT COOL. For food addicts, it is similarly bogus to make excuses for overeating because the kids were acting up, you were late for work and got yelled at, your mother was sick, or your spouse ticked you off. Each one of us is 100% responsible for our behavior – even if we have addictions. If we have an addiction, once we realize that truth, we are responsible for getting help and learning healthy ways to deal whatever life brings us. We are responsible for learning to deal with our feelings in appropriate ways. We are responsible for learning to work through losses, past abuse or neglect, present hardships, frustrations with family and friends, and all of life’s realities. Without the use of addictive chemicals or actions. The addictive substance or behavior, whatever it is, isn’t the problem. Sure, alcohol is a problem for alcoholics. Certain foods are problems for food addicts. Shopping is a problem for shopaholics. But those are only the surface problems. Addictive substances and behaviors are symptoms of the real problems, which are almost always rooted in shame: “I’m not good enough.” That shame stems from many possible places. To treat addictions, we must first remove the substance or behavior. No, one cannot eliminate food from their life. But they can eliminate the food(s) that cause them problems. Once we are free of chemicals or the addictive behaviors, we can work on the real problems and choose who we want to be. When we don’t “use,” our actions can reflect our values. “Connie – you’re an addict.” WHAT A RELIEF! I understood why I couldn’t STOP doing things I didn’t really want to do. I finally knew there was hope. I knew I could learn to live life in healthy ways and according to my values. But I first had to be willing to live without the addictive chemicals and behaviors. So I needed help. I couldn’t do it alone. And I didn’t have to. Together, we can support one another into a life of RECOVERY. What a relief!

My addiction has always been books, and snacking while reading them. I've made a new rule; no eating and doing ANYTHING else. Books are still my favorite addiction, but I now enjoy them without food. I'm trying out other hobbies...photography, scuba, sailing lessons, and next.... kayaking (if I fit in one that is! LOL). I'm sure I'll find something because fortunately (or unfortunately?!) it take tons of alcohol to affect me in the least..always been like that. As for music and exercize...I've always worked out or walked with my music, until I discovered something new. My new iPod has video capability...I've downloaded 2 seasons of Monk and have suddenly found myself working out for an hour without even NOTICING! I now look forward to the treadmill so I can see the show, 'cause I don't allow myself to watch it any other time.

I was told no carbonated drinks but coffee is fine. I'm not a big coffee drinker anyway so I usually don't drink any. One interesting thing since surgery has been alcohol's effect. Now, if I drink like 1 glass of wine I'm practically drunk. It's a good thing that alcohol has never been my vice (food takes that prize).

I just want to say to those of you who are in full control of your eating and can't relate to those of us who want the band to help us gain control.... I am an addictions counselor and when you are addicted to something you no longer have WILLPOWER. WILLPOWER is a joke to someone with an addiction. Ask any crack addict if they want to smoke crack and prostitute themselves out for drugs and see what they say!! For alcohol and drug addction, abstinence is key because a thousand will never be enough. With a food addiction abstinence is not an option so it is like telling an alcoholic to have one beer, it doesn't work! The band to a food addicted person is the tool they need to control their eating because they couldn't on their own. So if people are upset because they do not have restriction, that's why. I agree that some of us need to be a little more patient and not give up too quickly, but their feelings of sadness when their band is not working YET, are valid! Everyone talks about the band being a tool but if the tool is not working yet then it's like living as if you never had it. This means trying to control an addiction and it is not possible for most folks. I am only 3 wks out and my hunger is back with avengance. However, I have had no fills yet, not until 6 wks out, but I am not giving up or even complaining because I expected to go through bandster hell. I just wanted to shed some light on why people are waititng for restriction. Restriction is what makes the band effective. I do encourage those who are struggling to hang in there and try your hardest to eat healthy. Stay positive and don't let others get you down. Not everyone is the same so not everyone will lose the same way. In addition, I'm seriously considering going to some OA meetings for support with my food addiction...maybe it will help some others who are having difficulties.

At 24 I was healthy too, just overweight. I was 50 or 60 lbs lighter than I am now. Granted, it's been 10 years and two kids, and my metabolism has slowed a bit and I have a sedentary desk job. But, I've also developed early onset osteoarthritis, which has led to a total hip replacement at 32 and the likelihood of another within 5 years. I've been been fortunate that my heart and blood sugar have been stable, but my cholesterol has suddenly gone out of control only in the last 3 years. I also developed fibromyalgia which, along with the OA, has made it much harder to exercise. The weight has been packing on with alarming frequency over the years and I wasn't able to figure out how to get rid of it. I don't know if I would have had WLS at 24. It seemed so extreme to me only a few years ago; but all I knew about was the band -- which didn't seem like it was enough -- and the bypass -- which seemed like too much. But it's amazing how health issues suddenly make you rethink your priorities, and the lengths to which you are willing to find relief. One thing that did scare me, which I didn't know about, was that during my surgery my doc took a biopsy of my liver. I received the pathology report in the mail earlier this week and it said that I had stage 1 NASH, or non-alcoholic steatohepatitis (aka "fatty liver disease"). I had never heard of this and my liver enzymes hadn't indicated problems so I googled it. I was alarmed at what I learned but I'm glad that I'm already working to reverse the damage before it gets too bad.

Oh also....I have never had pain from drinking any kind of alcohol. Fuzzy drinks will give me gas and make we wanna burp and feel full, but I usually drink a bloody Mary or Vodka OJ.

Don't forget the "how soon can I have alcohol" crowd!

Not sure if it’s too late to chime in to be helpful but I’ll give you my experience and advice. I was not given much guidance by my program about alcohol other than to avoid it for the empty calories aspect. As a Jew, wine is part of our holidays, rituals and celebrations so it’s hard to avoid. Yea, I could do juice but I don’t want to, I like wine and I’m an adult, damnit. I had a small glass at home a week or so post op and noticed that it feels a little funny when it hits my stomach but that goes away quickly and I drink a lot less than I used to. I feel it sooner, but once I stop drinking the buzzed feeling goes away sooner too. So overall for me a pro. I drink 1-3 glasses a week (still much less than I did before) and do not binge cause I don’t want to get hammered in a hurry. If you’re going to drink at an event, I’d recommend trying it at home to see how you handle it. That way if you have a problem, you’re in a safe place. I can’t speak to the dumping as although I drink sweet wine, I haven’t had an issue. I just treat it like any other liquid and don’t chug or take big sips. This way, one glass lasts a lot longer too. Another bonus in my opinion. If your program specifically forbids it, I’d recommend following that recommendation just to save the hassle of having to tell them what you did lol. And I agree that if you chose not to drink then it shouldn’t be a problem. If you need to lol like you’re drinking you can always have the bartender mix up a cranberry and water cocktail or similar mixed drink minus the alcohol. If you chose to drink, you can nurse a glass of wine for an hour or more at a time and ask the bartender to pour you a weak cocktail, should you desire you a mixed drink. Bartenders are like hairdressers, they’re good at keeping secrets 😉

I can only speak for myself, but I am most certainly a food addict. I don't think or see why anyone would "want" to be a food addict. I think it takes a lot of guts and courage to admit any kind of addiction. In the simplest form, the reason I know that I am food addict is that here I am, I'm intelligant, I know exactly what causes me to be morbidly obese, I know exactly what ill effects this weight causes my body, intellectually I know what I can/should do to correct it (and have done it to the tune of 1,000 (yes, one thousand) pounds over 50 years (my parents took me to a diet dr. when I was 7), and yet here I am....powerless over food....and still morbidly obese. I was very beautiful, and all this weight distorted my looks and robbed my self esteem. It has caused isolation and insecurity that I cannot even describe. I am invisible to most of the world. It is no fun not to be comfortable in your very own skin. Yet, I'm am SO extremely scared to have any kind of weight loss surgery, I'm on the fence about having any at all. Close friends and relatives are scared for me have surgery, due to the inherent risks and complications. It is a HUGE decision. I am not overexagerating when I say it is the biggest decision I'll ever make and I am not making it or taking it lightly. If other types of behaviors are addictive - such as illegal and prescription drugs, alcohol, smoking, gambling, sex, just to name a few - why not food?? It doesn't surprise me one iota. I live it everyday and so do lots and lots of others. It is something I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. It has basically ruined my life.

Admitting an addiction doesn't absolve you of responsibility, it simply means that you have greater self awareness. I personally don't have a problem with "Certain Foods", I have a problem with ALL foods. Did it occur to you that those "7 Habits" were simply the tools they used to battle their addiction, much as an alcoholic will use a 12 step program to battle their addiction? Besides, if having to have WLS and and your GE system altered (band, sleeve, GB) to finally gain some control over my excess weight doesn't classify me as a "food addict" then I don't know what does.

Well Warren PhD..here I am..a BONIFIED sugar addict! full responsibility & no guilt, just fact. scientific actually. Great Doc I had. MY PhD and I have worked very hard to come to the finale, the finish line if you will. it will never end, but I know where the line is now. I had (and still do) trigger foods, and triggered sweets. Long long story short..We, together discovered my triggers, which lead to other triggers, which lead to other triggers. Once established, she left it up to me, to either disregard the Pasta's,breads & chocolates (refined carbs) altogether, or learn discipline and moderation. I chose to not have sugar or process flour products in my life. That's discipline, not willpower. You are right about the 7 rules. . 6 out of 7 I do religiously, and I am also a case study in my area for a nation wide obesity study. My surgery was 3/1/2010-Gastric. I wanted my sugar/pasta 'addiction' under my control before I had my surgery. If having a 'politically correct' word for food addicts makes you PhD's feel self important for coining a new phrase for the Webster dictionary, by all means, give a prettier name. But I know what I am, I have live it for a very long time. Now I don't, but it will always be there with me, just like an alcoholic or a drug or sex addict.

Most stories from bypass patients that drink will be similar. After surgery the alcohol moves much more quickly (and pretty much all at once) into the small intestine. That's why it hits you harder and more quickly than it did before. It also moves out of the shortened intestine faster than it did before which is why you sober up more quickly. My surgeon said no alcohol for a year and I followed it to the letter and still wound up with an ulcer at the anastomosis. It healed fairly quickly but I'd be cautious about pushing the time line. I very much enjoy a glass of wine before dinner (pre-op and post-op) but you want to be sure that the surgery is completely healed before alcohol. Pre-op or post-op, alcohol is still an irritant.

I like to put little hidden meanings into many things that I write. Some are more obvious than others. When some products are labeled organic, it means no chemical fertilizer and no chemical pesticides were used on those plant products while growing or that the meat was taking from animals that were fed by grain that was grown that way. We have to trade some things for others. More people get cancer and many other life threatening diseases now in their 50's, 60's and 70's. But many people never made it to 50 years of age, four or five generations ago. We could argue until the cows come home about chemicals in our food supply. Some are good when used properly. Some are abused by farmers who figure if this much is good, 4 times that much is 4 times better. Of course the toxicity will increase that way. And some chemicals, it turns out, should never have been used, but sometimes it's the long term effects that no one could have known about. Sometimes, though, the chemical's manufacturer knew of the problem but pushed it out anyway. Mushrooms are natural, but some can kill you. Marijuana is natural and I'll leave it up to you to decide if that makes it safe. Tobago is natural and alcohol does not require chemicals for distilling, so it is natural too. Beef is natural, as is apple pie and ice cream, but look how much fat we have acquired from eating them.

Thanks for all the info. The 2 day break really helped and my period has stopped. I took the shots yesterday and today and had no problems. I think my hormones were raging last week and I was just freaking out over all of this. Letting the alcohol dry does help with the stinging and if I do the shot quick, the only pain I get is a little stinging for a short time after I do the shot.

Green: You continue to bring a different perspective to this discussion that is incredibly helpful and appreciated. Your personal experiences are a testament to how important it is for people not to make reproductive decisions for others. No one can truly know what is in one's heart and soul. And it only helps to solidify my very strong belief that legislators do not have any business making laws that control women's reproductive rights. Btw, when I was a legislative aide in Richmond, many years ago, I met a brilliant young female attorney who was working as a lobbyist (not too many females equipped to compete with the men at the time) in Washington. We frequently had lunch together and discussed topics of the day. Women's rights, the ERA, abortion and many other things were hot items in the media and on the Hill where she worked when Virginia's legislature wasn't in session. One day as we broached the topic of abortion rights, she told me her story. When she was young and in college, a college football player who was headed for the pros, took her to a party. She was a young Freshman, totally enamoured with this fine looking big man on campus. During the party, he (or a friend of his) slipped some kind of substance in her non-alcoholic drink. Later, in the front seat of his car, he forceably took advantage of her condition. She was helpless to stop him - couldn't even feel her limbs, or face. It won't surprise you to know that she became pregnant. Her story isn't all that unique. But she was a young woman who knew better than to be alone in the car with someone she didn't know well, and totally beat herself up emotionally over it. She had to take time off from school to have the baby. But she did. Afterall, abortion was illegal. She gave the baby up for adoption since there was no way she could take care of him on her own. She lost her scholarship since she interrupted her studies for more than a semester. She had to work to get back in school and back on track with her plan to be able to take care of herself as an adult. She subsequently found that she could not allow herself to become serious with any man because she knew she would have to reveal her "unfortunate" past. She sure couldn't lie, even had she wanted to. Her stretch marks would never allow that. She told me over and over that day, how much she wished she had been able to have an abortion. She had all the scars and emotional trauma from going through 9 months of pregnancy and the painful delivery, with nothing positive to show for it, only the emotional trauma of having allowed herself to be taken advantage of by a man she barely knew. She was extremely unhappy because she had to live with the fact that she had a child out there somewhere, whom she did not know, but who could show up on her doorstep anytime in the future, expecting her unconditional love. I also had a friend in high school who got pregnant, her boyfriend abandoned her, and she went to Illinois to finish her pregnancy and deliver the baby, whom she gave up for adoption. She was only 17. Later, she went to nursing school, got a B.S. degree and married a sweet young man. They had their first child and unfortunately he had Down's Syndrome. So she gave up her first totally healthy child, only to find herself raising a Down's Syndrome child. She always blamed herself for giving up the first child - thought it was God's way of punishing her. She was very active in the Baptist Church in our hometown. However, she and her husband subsequently divorced. She and I had another friend when we were just out of our freshman year going into high school, who became pregnant at age 15. This friend was a cheerleader, beautiful and from a wealthy family. Her father took her to Dallas (we lived in OK) for a quick abortion. She didn't miss a day of school or one cheerleading practice. She went on to get her Master's Degree and is a school administrator after 10 years of a successful teaching career. She married her childhood sweetheart (father of the aborted fetus) and they had 3 children and basically have lived happily ever after. So I've come by my feelings about this topic via listening to friends and acquaintences' experiences and seeing the torture that they have experienced and knowing that no one but the people immediately involved should be making a decision of whether to have a baby or not. Sometimes an abortion can cause untold mental trauma for a woman, sometimes having a baby and giving it up for adoption can cause unquestionable mental trauma. Sometimes things are not so traumatic and there is peace in everyone's heart. But these are not things that can be achieved just because some lawmaker says they must happen by their rules. When you've lived through the age of illegal abortions, you realize that this is a very complicated and generally strident topic. I haven't thought about these things for years. But with the current administration and Supreme Court appointees, it has resurfaced its' ugly head. I just wish it wasn't a relevant debate today.

This is odd isn`t it? He blames a parent. Imagine that?! Jack blames Ozzy's wild antics for turning him into a drug addict - Nov 17, 2005 Jack Osbourne has blamed his dad Ozzy's wild antics for turning him into a drug addict. The 19-year-old says as a child he thought his rock star dad was "cool" for partying and losing control with alcohol and drugs. But the newly svelte star admits after following in his father's footsteps his wild lifestyle became too much - and he came close to committing suicide. http://www.myvillage.com/pages/celebs-jack-osbourne.htm?domain=myvillage Another odd one. Gee who made her famous ? Kelly: fame sucks - Feb 05 Kelly Osbourne blames fame and fortune for her drug addiction. The youngest daughter of the Osbourne dynasty has taken the time out to have another little whinge about how awful her life is. Kelly says that the fame and money that came to her as a result of her life on a reality show and her record deal led her to become addicted to opiates. "Growing up in the public eye sucks." The star complained "it's bad enough having your family judge you, never mind the whole world. So I tried to escape. But I didn't like cocaine or speed so opiates became my drug of choice." http://www.myvillage.com/pages/celebs-kelly-osbourne.htm?domain=myvillage

I don't think there is enough alcohol in the world to make me ready to see plain's, um, toys. Nope. Now, the pink wig and cone bra? I am so there!:thumbup:

You raise an interesting set of questions in this post, ones that would merit a lengthy thread of their own. How far should the state go? Should the state become a "nanny state" by enacting laws for our protection? There was the time of Prohibition when alcohol was banned because it was deemed bad for us. Now we see laws which infringe upon the rights of smokers. Should there be anti-obesity laws as well, and if so, what kind? Should fast food restaurants be banned. Should we have the right to sue them? Should the obese individual be required to pay for his or her own health costs? For that matter there is the tricky matter of medical technology outstripping itself. Let me explain. Though it is now possible to save extremely premature infants, the chances are high that these poor kids will have ongoing developmental problems; they are more likely to have medical problems throughout their lives. This means that from their birth on they will be a greater charge on the health system, whether it is private or not. How do you feel about your insurance premiums going up when it concerns the care of one of these infants? Or should the state adopt a hands-off approach? Where does one person's right end and the next person's right begin? I think that this is an interesting question.

I like sweet drinks like pina coladas, where you can't taste the alcohol. One of the major reasons I don't drink is that I hate the way I feel afterwards. I get major hot flashes if I drink any alcohol, and I do mean any. I start sweating, my face turns red, and I honestly feel like I'm about to either puke or faint.