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Yes, I weigh every day and do have mini stalls (4 days at exactly the same weight to the tenth of a pound). No, I can't eat Ho Ho's and lose weight. Over the holidays, I ate Christmas Cookies on 4 different days and instantly gained 3 pounds. It came off a few days after I went back to my program, but I'm sure I would have stalled if I kept it up. I have also studied all the posts of people who failed and gained weight down the road. I found no one who claimed it was caused by having a few glasses of wine a week. I even started a thread that was "hot" for a while specifically asking this question and not one single poster reported gaining back weight due to a few low-sugar alcohol drinks a week (some had problems with margaritas, daiquiris, beer, etc, but they were also eating junk food). Virtually everyone who had failed cited Ho Ho's! Well, not exactly, rather sugar. Regular soft drinks is #1, sweets in general #2, simple carbs #3, and junk food #4 (which I assume means burgers, fries, and milkshakes). I am not cocky, I am a scientist. It took me 50 years to put on 75 pounds and 80% of those 50 years I was on one diet or another. I have no doubt that I will fail if I just eat "normally". I also have no use for second hand tales from others who eat perfectly, don't drink alcohol themselves and feel they know it all (kinda feels like the "Church Lady" from SNL). I have read all the major wls books and most all the posts on this forum and others. I know all the "official rules" and I also know that there is much disagreement among experts throughout the process in terms of food, alcohol, and coffee. I also know that it varies based on your surgery. That's why I ask for real world experiences. I love this forum for the first hand accounts of what worked or didn't work FOR YOU! This thread is about a question for people who drink alcohol. If you don't drink, good for you, but please don't bother jumping in. Thanks

I love going on cruises...I love everything about cruising, and if you are like me...you probably know that the food is one of the best parts of cruising. Well, we have a cruise coming up in a few months, and I am extremely tormented about it! I know I will need to face lots of food at some point in my life, but I also know I'll need some serious strategies to be able to resist some of my favorite deserts for example. By then I will be over half way towards my goal, but not there yet. and I am wondering how I will coup with 7 days on the high seas with all that yummy goodness. A part of me things, no problem, I can do this, while another part is wondering, is this not like an alcoholic leaving mid AA program to go to an All You Can drink Winery? So my question is...are there any cruise lovers out there that have sailed since being sleeved, and if you have any advise for how to coup with the temptation. I would sure appreciate it if you shared your experience.

@@Cape Crooner hey bud when i read you first sentence - i thought to myself, cool you are tracking, eating ,drinking (water LOL) protein - exercising you are doing great many people don't weigh everyday (I do) if you don't weigh weigh during the week, you don't know if you have stalled (an OFFICIAL stall refers to not loosing weight for at least three weeks) NOT if you haven't lost in 3 days or so LOL after NOT weighing yourself all week you step on the scale it might show a weight loss it's time to show that loss! happened to coincide with after you had drank a "little" alcohol personally i don't think the loss had anything to do with a few drinks as far as burning 3,000 calories a day for fear of death (or worse!!) i wouldn't touch that statement with a 10 ft pole LOL truth is, i don't know the right answer I don't think any OP were cruel about the tracker situation they gave their opinion an "opinion" is just that, an opinion no one can be right or wrong about an opinion like others, i think this thread has gotten out of hand The Horse Died!!!! enough said? that's great that you have lost 82 lbs sooooo close to GOAL keep up the good work congrats on weight loss kathy

I definitely knew that OP was including the BMR + calories burned from activity and stating total calories burned in a day. I have noticed that this site has many ultra sensitive folks, and ultra critical folks, and that combo is not always good. I posted a lot in the beginning but I stopped because I feel ppl are often overly critical when some folks are just trying to be honest about their experiences and get feedback from those who have experienced it too. For example, I have drank alcohol multiple times since surgery and I also have continued to lose. I think it's also because when you drink, you tend to eat less, and most likely you're active to some capacity. I'm sure someone will tear me down for this, but I don't follow every single rule and I've still been successful. I'm more than halfway to goal at only 4 months out. Just like any diet or lifestyle change, there will be some days where you splurge a little but the most important part is staying on track and being accountable. On a side note, I wish that we could just be honest adults without worrying that someone will jump all over us. I think the OP got defensive and maybe went a little far after, but I have seen this so many times on here. We all know what it feels like to be criticized, let's try to look at things from the other person's perspective. With that said, Carry on everyone lol ????????

So I am new to the group and haven't introduced myself or given my story. I am 43, female,at start 259 lbs. I have been big my entire life. I have always done a lot of bluff hiking and walking but never lost much for very long. Started getting sick, never feeling good, ending up with diabetes, high cholesterol, high BP oh had I have hidradenitis suppurativa which they say is because of my weight. Which I know is bull because other family has it that is not fat. So when I found out my insurance would finally cover it I decide it was time to stop thinking about it and just do it. So on December 14th I had surgery. It has been a struggle since then. I found out I have non alcoholic cirrhosis of the liver. I skipped the fatty liver and scaring of the liver and went right for cirrhosis. I guess I am doing ok and they are hoping it will turn around or at least stop where it is at. That freaks me out really bad but I can't let my family know that. I am the one that keeps everything together and running smoothly. So I suck it up and worry on my own time. I am having such a hard time getting in my fluids and protein. I get about 20 to 30 oz. of fluids and 20 to 30g of protein a day. I still can't eat more then about 1 med cup of food and I am so full I get sick. I just found out I have a nodule in my stomach that is taking up all the room why I feel full all the time. Oh and I still have to take 30 units of lantus and they still are in the 130-170(for diabetes) But on the plus side I have lost just over 20lbs and 3 in on my waits. I check my weight and measurements and pics every week.I just want to feel better. Going in once a week or so for IV fluids sucks. They usually get the IV in after about 5 pokes and I'm afraid of needles. I however enjoying not having to work. But would go back if it meant feeling better. Any advice from anyone would be greatly appreciated! Thanks for reading

When I read 3000 calories a day and a tracker I knew it was BMR plus exercise they all give you the daily total and the exercise break out. All the people like toss you tracker, really? Do you understand the apps? The alcohol is probably temp dehydrating you and flushing your system when it converts to sugar. I don't think drinking on the weekends is a sustainable weight loss method though. Why is everyone so damn angry in this thread?

I actually thought you were talking about BMR because I have a FitBit that calculates it that way as well. Now that that's cleared up, I have seen something similar happen if I drink a bit of wine but I've always attributed it to dehydration because the same thing happens the day after I've had diarrhea. You most likely are losing normally because you are in a normal deficit. Some people can eat or drink anything the first year and lose. It's after that honeymoon period you have to start watching calories, which you're already doing. While I don't think there is anything wrong with having a glass of wine now or then I've noticed it burns my stomach and the alcohol hits me really fast so I tend to avoid it. Also, most aren't advised to have it until closer to goal weight. There's also a higher risk for bariatric patients to have transfer addiction from food to alcohol so doctors advise you wait to consume. Not saying you have this, but that's why you'll get some negative responses. We've been warned and conditioned to avoid alcohol because of surgery.

What's that sayingz? pot... Kettle....black....nevermind. I'll pass on the advice from one who is 15 weeks post op and already regulalry drinking alcohol and thinking it's aiding in your weight loss. Healthy is my goal though. You've proven not every thin person is healthy.

Listen, being rude doesn't get you anywhere. You said you burned 3,000 calories and then that you track your food, drink, and exercise. That logically leads people to think you believe you are burning 3,000 calories with exercise. Now you link to an article that describes calories burned throughout the day (which is rarely the way people discuss calorie burn but I'll disregard that). So now you lead us to believe you are talking about your total calories burned. It's still not clear what you really mean. Don't get snotty if people don't understand something you've written when it's about as clear as mud. Regardless, it's risky to be drinking alcohol in any amount after WLS. But I'm sure you have all the answers there too. Good luck to you.

@@butterfly23 Yes I would be thankful nothing rude was said vs. nothing at all. My nlaws always say the wrong thing. I have a sister n law who was heavy as a child then as a young adult began with drugs and alcohol. She lost all of her weight and even more than she should. I have know her for 30 years now and never knew her as heavy. Yes, she is still heavily addicted to drugs and alcohol and barely eats anything. She has now become a type 1 diabetic because she basically damaged her pancreas. She is 5'7" and if she weighs 100lbs I would be shocked. Anyway, about 6 months after my surgery which she knew I had, she saw me and informed me that I was loosing way too much weight and I looked sickly thin. I still weighed over 200lbs at the time. I knew she was scared I might become thinner than her and that was her real motive. I have not seen her since August, I have lost quite a bit of weight since then and am 7lbs from goal. I don't look forward to the next time I see her because I am certain rudeness will come shooting out of her mouth. My mother n law would usually make comments about both my weight and my husbands and she was obese herself. It's just strange how people think it is ok to say whatever they want. Be glad......and congratulations on your progress!

More than likely the weight loss you are experiencing is due to dehydration. Let me explain: Alcohol is a diuretic. For every shot of liquor you consume your body will expel an additional 120mL of Fluid. Drinking more Water while you are consuming alcohol isn't as simple of a solution as people make it out to be. You only retain about 1/3 to 1/2 of the water you consume while drinking and the urination won't stop until the alcohol has left your system, and ADH (antidiuretc hormone) levels return to normal.

It's probably not about the alcohol so much as the calories. You say you are burning 3,000 a day (which translates into hours and hours of exercise) and consuming 1,000, so your body is probably entering preservation mode. Even if you meant 300 calories burned per day, that's still a lot of exercise. You might want to up your cals to 1200 or something just to see what happens.

I'm around week 15 and 9 lbs from goal. I am expecting my Weightloss to slow down or stall, but it's not. I have noticed a new pattern and was wondering if anyone else has experienced it and/or your thoughts. First off, I am a very conscientious logger of food, Water, and exercise. I am consuming 1000 calories, 70 grams+ of Protein, 64 ounces of water, and burning 3,000 calories a day. Monday - Friday, I pretty much stall. Then the weekend comes and I have a drink (or two) and the pounds fall off. I have now been observing this for over a month. BTW, I only drink red wine or bourbon/vodka and water. Around 100 calories per drink.

How on earth are you so close to goal at 4 months out?? Thanks for asking! I had an unusual situation. I live in two different places 6 months of the year. In July, I decided I need to make a serious run at weight lost (having been stuck in the 270's for a few years). After some research, I decided to make some calls and look into the sleeve. My dilemma was that that I needed to be on the West Coast for the winter by Thanksgiving, which meant I needed to complete my surgery by early October, which left me with about 3 months to meet a surgeon, get approved, and have my surgery. The first hospital I called said "no way". I then called the #1 WLS hospital in the state (top 5 in the country) and met an incredibly responsive staff. They explained the process and basically said "if you do everything right and we hit all green lights, it might happen." That was good enough for me! My first meeting was my orientation on August 10. Knowing that I might not be quite at BMI 40 and knowing that having to prove comorbidities would take time I didn't have, I basically ate like a pig for the 5 days before the orientation and then stuck around after the meeting and talked a PA into "weighing me in" that night. Voila -- 281 lbs. and a BMI of 40.2. After that, I read everything I could read, got my doctors to write letters, shut off all socializing, stopped drinking alcohol, coffee, or soda, and starting working out an hour a day. On September 2, I finally met the WLS team. I was down 15 lbs (to 266) in three weeks and they were blown away. They were also blown away by the 5 page diet history I presented with integrated doctor's reports going back 7 years. After that, I attended all their meetings and did all their tests as fast as possible, even if it meant spending every day driving around. On October 1, I got approved for an October 19 surgery -- which would have worked, but cut it close for Thanksgiving. I pleaded with the scheduler, who was excellent, and she found a way to get me in for October 6. I was down 31 pounds to 250 on 10/6. After surgery, I continued to follow everything the said and continued to exercise 90 minutes a day. Yesterday I weighed in at 201 (down 81 lbs from HW and 51 from SW). Although I would need to get to 175 to have a BMI of 25, I am a former athlete with a muscular build and competed nationally at 210 lbs. I weighed 175 in 7th grade. Also, I've lost 2 inches in height due to hip issues, so I have a 6' body in a 5'10" frame. The hospital originally said 200, but I upped it to 190. So actually, I'm now 11 pounds from goal...

There is a tool that u blow into like they would with alcohol

I am so sorry your Dr. treated you that way. What a jerk! I went to a diet doctor pre op who fired me as a patient when I cried after only losing 10lbs in 4 months even though I'd exercise 1 to 1 1/2 hours every day, gave up carbs and alcohol etc. What I notice in your last post is a lot of cheese. Try cutting out the cheese. You might be lactose intolerant. Could be causing the constipation. Also, my NUT has me communicate by email. Maybe you can scan your food log and email to NUT and get a quicker response than waiting until Feb. Good luck from fellow slow loser but I'm plugging at it. I've lost more than I would have without surgery.

I think your gonna be fine. The one I went too just made sure I didn't have any drug or alcohol problems or eat disorders. Your already taking medicine and ate aware for what's going on so I think it's gonna be okay. Good luck.

Let me elaborate on what I mean by "metabolic support" (as described by my surgeon). I was referring to the concept that only with VSG do they remove the section of the stomach that sends hormones to the brain that make us hungry. Nothing is removed in band surgery and in gastric bypass, the stomach is left behind and continues to produce the hunger hormone. That said, bypass patients do great in weight loss because they also have their digestive system "shortened". My issue with bypass was that I was uncomfortable with all that organ rerouting. Also, my surgeon said no alcohol or NSAID'S for life after bypass. Here's one link that touches on some of the differences: http://www.bariatric-surgery-source.com/gastric-sleeve-surgery.html#The_Difference I do know that lots of people have done great with the band, but I also know a lot if people have failed and then gotten conversion surgery to VSG or one of the others.

Yeah, that's what I couldn't remember: the weird way Alcohol works in the body post-surgery. They say that you'll get drunk far faster than you ever have in your life, but at the same time you'll sober up very fast as well. The potential for trouble from this is great as anyone can see; basically if you had any propensity towards over-doing it with booze before, you can get in serious trouble

Your body does weird things with alcohol after surgery. You get drunk fast and sober really fast which leads to more drinking. Many people become alcoholics because of this. Be careful. Many people in my surgeon's support group have experienced this so no alcohol is suggested.

Post op they recommend no alcohol for a year and a lot of doctors won't even operate on you unless you quit smoking because it can complicate and slow down the healing process. If you are pre-op, I would strongly consider this as an opportunity to quit the use marijuana since you can't use it for a while and find something else to fill that gap for a while. You might find a much healthier option (and depending on where you live... More legal option). Remember, the whole reason people get weight loss surgery is to aid them in making drastic lifestyle changes to better their health. In the grand scheme of things, the recreational use of marijuana and an alcoholic beverage is peanuts compared to the changes in food consumption you will be undergoing. I know it's just advice and ultimately it's your decision to make... But there are lots of ways to relieve stress after a long hard week. Maybe go for a spa visit or something along those lines. Who couldn't go for a good face massage!

Bellabloom, It sounds like a struggle for you. The others have had some great points and ideas. Focusing on some calorie-dense foods might help. What about nuts? cheese? Going back to the Protein shakes, as you may have used in the first stages post-op, could also help. Can you blend in, say, avocado and/or Peanut Butter to shakes to increase the calories? Could you cook foods with sneaky fats, like baking your protein with olive oil, or tossing Pasta with olive oil? Finding some slider foods seems like a great idea! Wheat Thins or other crackers, Cereal, macaroni and cheese (make it whole grain and real cheese, if you’re worried about junk food), or whatever may work for you. I understand you don’t want to eat junk food, but if you’ve honestly tried every healthy food on the planet and you can’t get enough calories, junk food may be your best (and only) bet to make up the calories you need to stop losing weight. Maybe in a while, you’ll be able to eat more “healthy” foods and reduce the calories from “unhealthy” foods I agree with some of the other members who suggest simply making it a priority – the same way after surgery when it’s really, really tough to get down those Protein Shakes to make 65 grams a day, and to get down that Water to make 64 ounces a day. Maybe eating will feel like a full-time job, but maybe it needs to be if the alternative is getting thinner than you want to be. Experimenting until you find your own “slider” foods seems like a possibly great idea! If you’re really and truly at a point where you cannot eat enough to subsist, that’s a serious problem! I hope you can find a nutritionist who addresses your particular problems and doesn’t just label you before listening to your story. @@jenn1, I don’t have a ton of personal experience with eating disorders of the non-overeating type, but I know it’s definitely a big deal in our WLS community! There’s a nice article here from the Obesity Action Coalition discussing obesity, eating disorders (binge eating disorder or BED, anorexia, and bulimia), and cross addictions. I’ve also heard them referred to as replacement addictions: after WLS, the addiction to food can be “replaced” by an addiction to something else. The article makes a very interesting point that after WLS, the person may not realize they are developing a replacement addiction. They think they can handle the alcohol, or whatever it is they are turning to, and don’t realize when they get to a point that’s dangerous. Anyway, it is definitely very common to have eating disorders (especially if you’ve struggled in the past) or other cross addictions post-op. Thanks for that info, @@jenn1. @@bellabloom, I would say to be super honest with yourself – can you physically eat more and do you want to? – and if the answer is that you’re in physical pain and you cannot get enough nutrients, then you need serious medical help. You’ve posted about this for several weeks (if not longer), and that’s way too long to live with bad pain. You have worked so hard to get to where you are now, and you’re worth a trip to the doctor.

Concentrate on the basics. These are Protein, Vitamins and fluids. food is secondary. It looks like you are prepared with Quest Protein Bars and vitamins. So the next category is fluids. When I went to Europe several decades ago, I could not drink the Water - instant diarrhea. In Europe many people drink wine. The alcohol in wine kills the bacteria. But after RNY surgery, wine is a poor choice. So the best choice is water that has been boiled. This is one of the reasons why tea and coffee make a good choice. Stay away from tap water and buy bottle water or bring along a small portable ceramic water filter.

Wow, Here I go. I would like the issue of eating disorders after bariatric surgery to be addressed some how. I am very much supportive of bariatrics. This issue is not intended to scare people away from surgery. I appreciate @@bellabloom honesty. I found this info on the web. I'm trying to find statistics and more recent studies. @@Alex Brecher do you have any info on this? By COURTNEY HUTCHISON ABC NEWS MEDICAL UNITJune 13, 2011 Weight-loss surgery was supposed to be Chevese Turner's salvation -- a last resort in her battle against obesity and binge eating. Instead, her 2007 lap band procedure catapulted her into full-blown bulimia. "I had always struggled with binge eating, and my relationships with food didn't change just because of the lap band. Even though binging is really painful when your stomach is restricted like that, I would still binge knowing that I would throw it up. I felt like finally I could be bulimic, like this was what I wanted all along," says Turner, 43, of Soverna Park, Md. Turner knew she had a binge eating disorder going into surgery, but after experiencing cardiac complications attributed to a lifetime of yo-yo dieting, she was desperate to lose weight. Instead of solving her overeating problem, however, the surgery only changed its form: for 18 months following the surgery Turner regularly binged and purged. Only after going into intensive therapy to cope with the binging behavior she had experienced since age 5 did Turner, who now runs the Binge Eating Disorder Association, build a healthy relationship with food and her body. When multiple traditional diet methods fail, weight-loss procedures such as the band are seen as a last hope for getting obese patients to eat more healthfully and lose weight. For an underrecognized minority of patients, however, the surgery only triggers a different kind of disordered eating. For Turner, it was bulimia, for others, it's anorexia. For one fellow patient in Turner's community, the anorexia was so severe that it ultimately took his life. Sixty percent of individuals seeking treatment for obesity have some kind of eating disorder, usually binge eating, according to a 2007 Harvard study. It is these individuals, who already have an unhealthy relationship with food and their bodies, who are at most risk of developing further eating disorders post-surgery, says Lisa Lilenfeld, a psychologist and president of the Eating Disorders Coalition at Argosy University in Washington, D.C. Lap band or gastric bypass surgery is not likely to create an eating disorder where there wasn't one, she explains, but "the most likely thing is that people had untreated or unsuccessfully treated binge eating disorders before surgery will continue to have problems after surgery. The problem is, it becomes physically challenging and potentially dangerous to binge like this because of the structural changes in the stomach," she says. On the other end of the spectrum, patients who used to overeat now overshoot with their weight loss, severely limiting their caloric intake to the point of malnutrition and anorexia. "I've had a number of patients go from very obese to very underweight, so much so that they need to be rehabilitated with intravenous nutrition," says Dr. Donald Kirby, a gastroenterologist at the Cleveland Clinic who treats patients undergoing bariatric weight-loss surgery. Because there are so no statistics on how many of these patients experience eating disorders post-op, it's difficult to gauge the scope of this issue and there is much debate over its prevalence between the surgeons who perform the procedures and the therapists who treat eating disorders down the line. Dr. Mitch Roslin, a bariatric surgeon at Lenox Hill Hospital in New York, has performed thousands of bariatric surgeries and he says he only sees one or two cases a year of eating disorders, but psychologist Lilenfeld believes it's much more common than that. Binge Eating: Hiding an Eating Disorder Technically, those with diagnosable eating disorders are not advised to undergo weight-loss procedures, but because each hospital and insurance company has different psychological screening requirements, many patients with mental health problems slip through the cracks. In some cases, psychological screenings consist of asking only a couple of basic questions that don't even address eating disorders or mental health concerns, says Dr. Leslie Seppinni, a therapist who specializes in treating obesity. "Then after the surgery, most doctors fail their patients in terms of follow-up. There are some group sessions with other patients, but that's about it." In Turner's case, however, her health insurance had relatively rigorous requirements for surgery approval, including an eating disorder screening and a letter from her therapist. But for those who are desperate to get the surgery at all costs, she says it's relatively easy to get around these requirements by answering the questions "right," as she did. Because of insufficient screening or deception, Lilenfeld says about a third of all patients who undergo weight-loss procedures are believed to have "severe binge eating disorder" going into surgery, though not all of these patients will go on to develop other eating disorders post-op. Anorexia/Bulimia After Surgery: Medical or Emotional? One of the reasons that true anorexia and bulimia may not be recognized after bariatric surgery is that the symptoms of these eating disorders can mimic some of the expected adverse affects of the surgery. In the months following surgery, the stomach has to heal and slowly expand, which makes eating difficult and sometimes painful. Patients who eat too much will sometimes throw up because it's the only way to relieve the pain in their stomach, not because they are compulsively trying to get rid of calories. Similarly, the indigestion, diarrhea and acid reflux that can occur post-op leads some patients to avoid eating altogether just because eating becomes an unpleasant experience. These patients will become malnourished and resemble anorexics, but the psychological aspect of the disorder is not there. It is important to distinguish between these medical reasons for anorexic/bulimic behavior and true, psychological cases of eating disorders, says Seppinni, who has traveled the country interviewing people about their experience with obesity, weight loss and bariatric surgery. In true cases of eating disorders, it's about the addiction to overeating getting transmuted into another addiction. For some, they become compulsive exercisers, for others, alcoholics, for still others, anorexics. "You take away the coping strategy they've been using all their lives, and the addiction has to go somewhere else," she says. The "loss" of binging as a coping strategy was palpable for Turner following her surgery. "I lay in bed and cried for a week because I couldn't eat. Eating was the way I soothed myself my whole life. As soon as I could binge again, even though it was extremely painful, I did," she says.

There are lots of non-carbonated mixed drinks (I hear ya though, I was a vodka and soda girl myself). Sea breeze, bay breeze, screwdriver, etc. but then you have to deal with sugar from the fruit juices. Wine? Or how about a vodka martini? Or a dirty martini? if you like spicy/savory, the vodka with veggie juice reminds me of a martini drink a friend turned me onto pre-surgery. Ask the bartender if they have any Bloody Mary mix made up. If yes, ask for a dry vodka martini with a heavy splash of Bloody Mary mix. Pre-surgery it would take me at least 30-40 minutes to drink one, I am thinking today it would take me an hour to drink one (and nibble on the olives) and probably knock me on my butt. I had a glass of wine on NYE and was buzzed on 1/2 glass. If you don't want to drink alcohol but do not want to let onto co-workers/friends that you aren't drinking, just ask the bartender for a small glass of Water or cranberry juice, and put a lime and a stirrer in it. No one will be the wiser.