Search the Community

Not following the eating and behavioral WLS instructions re what and how WLS patients should eat post-op obviously hasn't stopped some people from losing all their excess weight and maintaining that weight loss -- as evidenced by some posts above. But it seems clear that those "independent" folks have indeed reduced considerably the amount of food and the calories they ate pre-op. But this "independent" approach to navigating WLS is disastrous for others -- particularly those who have diagnosable eating disorders, who can't stop drinking significant amounts of "liquid calories" (think sweet tea, sugar sodas, high-calorie coffee drinks, sugary alcoholic drinks, beer, etc.), who snack continuously ("graze") on "slider foods" (those foods that have lots of carbs, are heavily processed and have little Fiber in them, and that move rapidly through the stomach into the intestines -- leaving the stomach empty and wanting more). I don't think it's a question of proving one's "worthiness" for surgery. I think if you have eating disorders and/or horrific eating habits pre-op that you know you're still going to be challenged by post-op you really will have to build some very different new habits and tools. One of those additional tools IMHO is the support and guidance of a therapist who knows what bariatric patients are struggling with and can support the changes you're trying to make in your lifestyle. None of us is guaranteed an excellent result post-op. But we can increase the odds of our success if we know our own personal challenges and try to reduce the risk of failure by pushing all the success levers we possibly can.

I have suffered from anxiety and clinical depression for many years. They are treated with medication. I am also an alcoholic in recovery. I was really worried about the psych evaluation. My psychiatrist was against me having the surgery for whatever reason, so my therapist completed it. He knows me very well and I was worried for nothing.

Wow! I had a similar experience with my psych evaluation. I'm at the beginning of my 6 month program. I already had my initial evaluation with the psychiatrist who works with the wls center. She brought up her concerns that she saw in my initial application i.e.( severe depression & anxiety, brief bulimic experience & my drinking alcohol). I felt VERY attacked and uneasy. I wanted to make sure I was honest on my application but had NO idea it was going to be used against me later. She suggested that I meet with an outside therapist to work on my issues. I asked if she had any power to deny me surgery and she said she doesn't but she gives the surgeon notes. I have to meet with her again in April and I'm not looking forward to it. I plan on seeing a therapist but now I'm worried about being so honest if it is going to stall my surgery. FYI I have wanted wls for about the last 3-4 years. My insurance has put me through the ringer and I'm SO close. I don't want to mess anything up.

@@Daisee68, Interesting question! I can definitely see your nutritionist’s point. She apparently sees your patterns at that meal as being similar to patterns that got you in trouble in the first place. And I think there is research to back up that the more variety you have at a meal, the more you are likely to eat. On the other hand, you didn’t have THAT many foods – you had 5 at the first, and 2 at the second. (By the way, my concern would be the Bloody Mary). I would ask if you were in control. If you were completely in control of what you ate, you made a sound decision, and you stuck to it, I don’t think it’s a problem. If you start with a chip and turned it into a two-course meal with alcohol, that is more of a problem.

Georgia, so good to hear from you. 14lb is awesome. I've given up alcohol for lent so am hoping the absence will diminish the snacks and chocolate that usually accompany it. Here's hoping.

Just checking in with my "family". I've been doing great with the food. Down to 194/193 and slowly bumping that down. I'm finding that the longer my food is clean (no bready or starchy carbs, zero fried food, moderate portions, no alcohol) my band is tighter. I get stuck a lot lately (every couple of days) if I don't chew well and don't slow down. I was eating radishes as a snack every day for awhile and then suddenly at work I got stuck on radishes. Radishes! The sliming was horrendous. And pink. Lol. Anyway, it has proven to me that I am indeed at the right fill level and need no more. The divorce is creeping forward slooooowly, but now that there's a trial date set, I'm looking forward with excitement to the new part of my life waiting for me this summer. I cannot stress enough how important working with a therapist and my 12-step groups has been for me going through all of this. I also have a couple of the best friends in the world and have had these people in my life since age 14. I rely on them so much, and they rely on me as well. I am truly blessed. Happy news. Eldest daughter has started to hear back this week from some of the ten graduate schools she applied to, and has been accepted to Emory, among others. She's flying high, and I'm as proud as a peacock. Hugs to all my peeps.

@@Inner Surfer Girl - I'm 8 months post-op. I have lost 124 pounds and am only 15-25 pounds from goal (depending on my final goal which I haven't determined yet. Surgeon original goal for me was under 200 which I reached this week). The food choices this weekend were just odd because of the situation - I was out of town all weekend with family for a soccer tournament. They chose the places to eat so I didn't have a lot of choice. I chose a bloody mary because it just sounded good. And it is only the 2nd time I have had alcohol since surgery and then I only drank half. The different choices these 2 days were from the appetizer menu and were shared with others at the table. They weren't the type of restaurants where I could really order a an entrée just for myself. I ate out 3 other times this week (I eat out a lot) and generally order any type of entrée with grilled chicken - i.e. salad with grilled chicken, fajitas, etc. and I always have leftovers. I get a minimum of 80g of Protein per day and generally get closer to 90 or 100 and I drink minimum of 64 oz of Fluid, generally more. And I take my Vitamins religiously. When I eat at home, I often have 3 to 4 items of food - for example: 2 to 3 oz of chicken or turkey (protein), an ounce (or less) of cheese (protein), and cucumbers (veggie) sometimes a couple of whole wheat crackers. At breakfast once or maybe twice a week, I have 1/2 of a Cobblestone Flat Bread round. I think my diet is fairly well rounded honestly, but the counselor was alarmed at my choices last weekend. To be fair, she only focused on those 2 meals and not what I had eaten the rest of the day or for that matter what I had eaten for the rest of my meals over the last 2 weeks since I had seen her. I logged all of my food and still met my protein goals, calorie goals and fluid goals each day. If I was eating like that every single day, I agree that would be a very bad idea, but I don't. I think I just didn't ask my question very well. Thanks to all for the input.

Thank you. I can assure you those are abnormal choices. I was stuck out with my family and while I had packed healthy Snacks (which I did eat during the day), I just had a couple of meals where I could either go without or make the best of it. Maybe not the best choices. Only the 2nd alcoholic drink I have had in 8 months, so it is definitely not a habit. Nor is the pizza (though it was flatbread with chicken, artichoke and no sauce and very very small amount if any cheese). I do likely eat chips more than I should (maybe once a week). It was those meals though that alarmed her (as it did you) and as I am preparing to go to a vacation where all food and alcohol is included and I will be at the mercy of what is on the buffet that meal. Really my question is more about the food variety at one sitting. For example, she said, even if healthy choices, to limit each sitting to only 2 or 3 food items - i.e. while on vacation - a piece of cheese and a small piece of fruit for Breakfast. If I were to choose, it would be more like - a few bites of scrambled egg, a piece of cheese, a Protein (probably small slice of bacon or small slice of ham) and a few bites of fruit. Her argument is that type of meal will stimulate the taste buds to desire more food. My argument being the variety and enjoyment of the food (as long as there is sufficient protein) is better served to keep me from getting bored. I am also taking quite a few snacks to make sure I get to my protein goals (Protein powder, Protein Bars, beef Jerky, individual packets of natural almond butter, small packages of cashews, etc.) So what I am looking for perhaps you did answer and that is that variety staves off boredom which hopefully staves off poor food choices.

I try to eat different stuff all the time. I purposely still drink a Protein shake and eat a Quest bar every day so I can meet my protein goals. And although most of my food choices are high protein, the shakes and bars give me the freedom to eat a balanced diet including fruit, veggies and whole grains while still getting 60-80g+ of protein. From a physiological standpoint, I like the idea of providing my body with different nutrients all the time. From a psychological standpoint eatng the same thing over and over with no variety would only be frustrating and lead to cravings and binges (for me, anyways) However, the examples you gave (pizza, chips, Bloody Mary, wings) are all pretty poor choices when it comes to healthy, weight loss friendly foods. That first meal was pretty much all carbs and the second was some protein, but laden with fat and probably carbs from the sauces. If you want variety, great, but make sure you mostly focus on lean protein and non starchy veggies. Your only carbs should be from maybe a little fruit and healthy, whole grains. Alcohol, bread and chips certainly should not be regular choices.

well never mind all that - I just googled them, and they don't contain sugar alcohols. Not sure what it was you were reacting to...

you may have been reacting to the sugar alcohols (that some sugar free and low sugar products contain). Some people do - it makes them gassy and have diarrhea. I don't react *that* badly to them, but I can't eat more than two sugar free popsicles because they really bother my stomach. Some people aren't bothered at all by them. YOu can tell if the product has sugar alcohols - the names end in -itol

Hi Betty, I was where you're at around Thanksgiving and began moderate alcohol consumption again. I was 216 then and now 193 - down 23 pounds or about 2 lbs a week. I am 3 lbs from goal. I also am finding that on days when I drink, I also end my stall and actually lose weight. At least that's been the case for 9 of the last 11 weeks! It wasn't an easy decision because it was ahead of schedule per my program, although their advice was inconsistent. Here are my own personal rules: 1. Don't drink everyday - even if you're only having one. This is good for your diet, your liver, and keeps you in full control and knowledgeable that you're on the safe side of any sort of addiction. 2. Log everything you drink and their associated calories. Stay within your calorie limits. 3. If you do this, you'll be limited to 1-3 pure drinks. I drink bourbon and Water, red wine, and vodka (all around 100 calories a drink). In the case of vodka, I started with a shot in a 12 ounce wine glass full of ice. I would let it sit for 10 minutes until it became vodka and water. I am now adding seltzer water up front. I know that it is carbonated, but the vodka seems to kill the bubbles. It looks completely flat. 4. Wine (red) is the only thing I drink when I'm out to dinner. It is easy to sip one glass over the course of a 1-2 hour dinner. 5. I am on an antacid and since ulcers are the primary risk of alcohol consumption, I take it a few hours before my cocktail. Also, recognizing that alcohol is a diuretic, I make a point to drink extra water before and after. I think the key is moderation and if you do drink, have a plan and stick to it. Like most simple carbs, it's a slippery slope, so be aware and be careful! Cheers...

@@Cervidae I got a dog. It has helped me so much with my stress and isolation from living and working alone. The dog is the best comfort available. I realize everyone can't afford or wants to take care of a dog. I comfort myself right now by shopping. It isn't always about purchasing items, it is more about trying on clothes, seeing what I can wear and also seeing myself in a different environment. Even though there are mirrors and full length mirrors all over my house, I find that I can see my changes better outside the house and trying on entirely new clothes. That helps me stick to plan and also validates my struggles with head hunger. Doing your nails, deep conditioning your hair. Okay on to food. Comforting myself with food, is something I worked through before surgery, before I even considered surgery. I gave up sugar, I gave up alcohol. I learned to work through my problems and I always removed a lot of stress from my life. Now to be real, I Keto. That is more comforting than most diets. Fats satisfy a lot of needs. Low carb and low fat is just fail to me, and it doesn't seem to satisfy anything. So I have healthy fats, very few carbs and meet my Protein goals. That is satisfying and comforting to me every day. My food is high quality and delicious. I had filet mignon for almost a week straight, at 4 oz at a time, it is affordable yet still decadent.Totally on plan, totally delicious. I am savory kind of person. I would rather have fried chicken or fried fish than chocolate or any kind of sweet. That being said, it is kind of easier to get "treat" like foods that are sweets since most people are sugar fiends. I think that if sweets are your trigger then you should be really careful. I can eat these items and not care about them. They are mainly convenience more than comfort. Protein Brownies. Looking they are protein brownies and they taste like protein brownies, but they do taste good. They also aren't cheap, so you might not want one every day. Found on instagram, a real life saver, added bonus, they are moderately filling. http://www.eatmeguiltfree.com/ Protein Peanut Butter The chocolate is delicious. https://wildfriendsfoods.com/protein_plus/ Quest Bars Low carb cheesecake (just google a recipe. I get these at Trader Joes for $1.99 or 2.99 a bar, I forget the price. cheaper than Lily's I have one square at a time as a snack http://www.amazon.com/Simply-Lite-Chocolate-Cacao-3-Ounce/dp/B0049UDYHI These from trader joe's, fi you are going to buy them, weigh/measure out all the servings and put them in individual baggies as soon as you get it home. Only take one serving at a time. The calories are high per serving for those of us on 1000 calories or so a day so plan accordingly. I stopped buying them because they aren't worth the calories to me, but they aren't a terrible option. http://i.imgur.com/jWCaYT1.jpg Again I am going to state I can eat this things because sweets are not a trigger for me. If they are for you, don't do it. Food though is fuel, not a comfort device. We all need to work past seeing food as a comfort. It doesn't even work post surgery at least for me. Being full is super uncomfortable, it isn't soothing, it doesn't make me numb or sleepy, just miserable. Cooking a complicated keto or paleo recipe is soothing to me. It takes me out of my own thoughts and I have to focus on what I am doing. I find that relaxing. Recipe sites.. http://www.ibreatheimhungry.com/ http://www.ruled.me/ http://cavemanketo.com/ https://ketodietapp.com/Blog I am not familiar with what RNY people can eat so if all of these are things you can't tolerate. I'm sorry.

Yes we certainly will be cheap dates...lol. I think being able to have a glass of wine with dinner occasionally will be the thing I miss the most, but hey, the odd small glass of low alcohol wine can now be dessert Thanks for the message, I have sent a request to join that group. The thing I am excited about the most is being able to take my daughter to the beach or pool next summer and not feel self conscious about my weight.

I have to add a P.S. As a mother who lost her 30 year old son to addiction issues as you mention, I get where you are and where your father may be. Addiction to each of us is food, drugs, cigarettes, alcohol, etc. Get some serious help but don't be so hard on your dad. My son's dad hit the road. Your dad is still there.

Jeanell - sounds like we're in he same boat. My story is I'm now 40. My original surgery was an open RNY in March 2002. I'm 5'3" & started at 269 pounds. At my lowest I was 132 but I honestly looked sick all the time. I discovered alcohol and slowly gained 70 pounds back from chocolate martinis and cosmos - I don't drink at all anymore . My original surgeon has since retired so I found a surgeon in my area that does revisions. He did a barium swallow on my first visit. He put me basically against a table the was upright then leaned it back just a little bit. They turned on an X-ray machine and had me swallow a chalky white substance and we could watch where the liquid went on the X-ray in real time. It was pretty freaky but pretty cool too! He said right there on the spot that my pouch looked great but my outlet seemed way to big like the original sutures didn't hold it small. When he determined it was the outlet of my stomach that was the real issue he scheduled me for an endoscopy-they knocked me out, went through my mouth/throat and put a little camera in my stomach. He snapped a couple pictures. A couple weeks later his office was happy to inform me that Dr Snow could fix my outlet so I was scheduled for outpatient surgery Feb 9th at 9:30am. They went in the same way that they did for pictures except this time I had to have a breathing tube too. It took under two hours to cinch up the outlet down to 1cm and while he was in there he also stitched in some pleats on the inside of my pouch to make it a bit smaller too. (Bonus!) No drains or anything and I was back home by 1pm the same day. I have my first followup appointment Tuesday the 16th. As for the results - So far so good. I'm still on Clear liquids and I'm sipping Protein Water throughout the day. I still really don't have an appetite but I get down a couple servings of chicken broth as well as a sugar free Popsicle and maybe one serving of sugar-free Jell-O each day. I'm looking forward to this revision helping me with the unpredictable digestive issues I've been suffering with and any weight loss would be a great bonus! I look forward to keeping up with your story ~K

The things you are mentioning are among the last few things that will come back into your life...and you should not do anything to hurry them along because they are generally nothing but trouble. Please don't try beer until six months after your surgery. Some people have a much harder time, while others notice no difference in ability to consume alcohol without ugly consequences, but regardless of where you fall, please wait out the six months. After about three months, go ahead and give thin crust and sandwiches with thinner bread a shot, but I guarantee that you will not want all of even a single slice or the entire sandwich bread. Eventually you will just start picking the cheese off the slice or the meat out of the sandwich. It really is a good feeling, and it is something you should look forward to instead of dreading.

In a word: yes, but in generally less than one-quarter the prior proportions. I can tolerate anything, and alcohol feels just like it did before. I was frightened by all the stories about one drink feeling like six but that has just not been the case. That said, I am choosing to generally abstain from any beverage but water because I am trying to maximize losing phase.

Yes, I have seen what appears to be people developing eating disorders after surgery on these boards. I have seen people with unaddressed/untreated eating disorders on these boards. I have seen people with disordered eating on these boards. I have seen people have or develop body dysmorphia. I have seen people who are practicing alcoholics on these boards. I have seen people transfer addictions on these boards. The bottom line for me is that seeking help early for whatever your issues and challenges are is a good thing. Your NUT is a great resource for determining if your approach to eating and food is healthy. Listen to your psych eval recommendations. If that involves getting a counselor or therapist, then get one. If you just need help dealing with change, then get one. Attend bariatric support group meetings and/or twelve step recover meetings (OA, AA, CODA, NA, ALANON, GA, etc.) if you need them. WLS is not a magic bullet. It is a catalyst for a whole range of physical, emotional, social, spiritual, and psychological changes. As we become healthier we may find that we are confronted with issues that we had buried or avoided for years by eating. That along with hormonal changes and fluctuations can be challenging. For me, WLS is about getting healthy. I hope this helps answer your question. Is there a particular reason his statement resonated with you?

I had a similar incident in a store - vasovagal response brought on by pain (starting my period always is super painful) and a combo of being dehydrated and having not eaten in around 6 hours. I used up my reserve sugars fighting through the vasovagal response and that dropped me right into a low blood sugar episode. I was lucky that I recognized what was happening fast enough to do something about it - I ate about 4 mints out of my purse and then was able to hobble to the front desk to ask for help. The store almost called an ambulance but I begged them not to and told them just get me a soda and I'd be fine - so I laid on their floor behind their service desk sipping a soda. Turns out I was right. I didn't actually pass out, but it was close for a while there. The joys of weight loss surgery side effects, huh? I would not drink alcohol on an empty stomach, and I would not drink more than one or two over the whole night either since alcohol is pretty much empty sugar calories. It will really screw you up.

The only time I nearly passed out was when getting out of bed, pretty sure it was dehydration, I'm no doctor but my first thought was blood sugar, then read about the cake along with the alcohol. Sometimes your blood sugar spikes and then falls so low it can cause issues like slurring and passing out. It seem to me it would have showed up in the ambulance,

I have not had this happen but I am still recovery from my surgery. If you had a bypass I could understand this happening to you. However I see you had the sleeve. I am not sure how people with the sleeve surgery react when they have had alcohol. Was this the first time you had a drink since your surgery? I hope your doing better now and don't have that reaction again. However if I had that happen I think I wouldn't drink again.

So many excellent points, @@VSGAnn2014! (As always.) Just to close out my last post... I don't disagree that it's the responsibility of the one going under the knife to learn everything they can about the surgery and the long road ahead. But the "When can I have pizza?" question from those who are only a few weeks or months out indicate that the education portion of their program has not been effective. Maybe that's a better way to say it. Now, on to your question... I think driving through to goal weight and having some degree of success in maintenance requires a single-minded focus on the prize. We didn't get heavy through self-discipline, but that's what it takes to get thin. Other factors: Not merely fear of failure, we all have that going into surgery, but some degree of terror of the "slippery slope" that certain foods might put us on. Accept that the 12-18 month window for optimizing our weight loss is real and must be used to its full advantage. I was told by my doc that it takes the 12-18 months to inculcate the good eating habits. Learn quickly from our missteps. If we eat just two bites of cake, but then eat a whole slice the next day, then we know that the two bites were a bad idea and we shouldn't do that again. Certain foods are never going to be a good idea for us, and the list is different for everyone. But my doc told us that ice cream and fruit juices should always be avoided as pure empty sugar calories -- the ultimate slider foods. Realize that alcohol is not only empty calories, but can also lead to poor eating choices. I've done an informal poll of everyone I know (including myself) who quit smoking and then started again. 95% to 100% had an alcoholic beverage in their hand when they took that first puff. I finally quit smoking permanently 20 years ago when I became terrified to have even one puff. It's the same with food! Stress and boredom eating are real. Stress and loss don't cause me to eat, but watching TV does. Many of my friends go for the comfort of food when stressed. We're always going to have a certain amount of stress in our lives, so finding non-food coping mechanisms is crucial to our weight loss success. The ability to embrace our well-deserved success, look forward to the new slimmer/healthier self, believe what we see in the mirror, and don't look over our shoulders waiting for our former selves to pull us back. There are many more reasons, but that will suffice for now.

So glad I found this forum! I had Orbera inserted exactly one month ago today. All in all its been OK, but definitely not easy. Nausea and some vomiting the first few weeks, allergic reaction (hives) to the nausea patch I was given, which was really unpleasant. Now, my biggest problem is that I don't feel great and have NO energy (a lot like morning sickness when I was pregnant with my kids). I've lost 13 pounds so far, and am happy with that, but really need to start exercising again. Started at 185, want to get down to 130. I was not given much guidance from my doctor about what, when, how to eat. From poking around on the internet, I've figured out not to ever drink while eating, no fried foods, focus on Protein. Ive also found that any kind of alcohol does not agree with me, so while I miss my glass of wine before dinner, dont have those calories to worry about. Are most of you exercising regularly? How and when is best?

As I posted before, my tolerance is not nearly as good. It's been an adjustment for sure. Going from beer to hard alcohol I mean. Best thing I do is when I remember to drink Water in between drinks. 18 months post sleeve.