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At five months after VSG I was clicking along, well on track for my weight loss target. Then came almost two months of extensive travel, being on the road almost every week. This included a week-long sales meeting, a week of vacation and a week of training plus some other trips. I got completely off track from my diet and also consumed way more alcohol than I should have. Long and short, my weight loss stopped in its tracks. I think I lost two pounds over two months. The good news was that despite all of this I didn't gain anything. Getting back on track meant going back to basics. A return to tracking all of my intake, with a focus on Protein and limiting carbs. Plus a re-dedication to physical activity and exercise. The combination of these has gotten my weight loss moving again.

I'm 6 months and only went into maintenance a month a go. As long as I'm under goal, I do a combination of "yellow days" and "green days". On a yellow day, I eat what I ate when I first got cleared for solid foods - about 1200 calories/day. On green days, I "pretty much eat anything" and have some sugar free alcohol (vodka, whiskey, red wine). Still, thanks to my sleeve, I doubt it's more than 2,000 calories. So far so good. In the event I go more than a pound or two over my goal weight, I'll go back on "red days" and log everything and target 1,000 calories. So far, so good...

Prior to my VSG surgery, I thought alcohol might actually be the root cause of my weight problem. I now know that isn't the case. Yes, alcohol does increase hunger and that puts me in a dangerous place, but as someone who only drinks vodka, whiskey, or red wine a few times a week, the empty 200-300 calories in a couple of drinks wasn't the problem. My problem was misinformation about what was the right food to eat and what was causing me to gain weight. As a 40 year Atkins dieter, I would munch nuts, cheese, and dark chocolate with impunity when I drank. I would also consume these on days when I didn't. I also think some people are fine with alcohol and some are not. From my experience, some people have a drink and want more, then more, then more. They wake up hung over and want another. For these people, abstinence is the best choice. That's not me. When I retired, I acted like I was on vacation for 4 months. I drank every evening and by the end, I was no longer enjoying it. I find that my level of enjoyment is a direct function of how long I abstain. I also find that the more I drink, the less I want another. I have been back to drinking post opt for the last few months. I now drink less and more importantly, I plan what I'm going to eat when I drink and all the calories. Finally, I'm not going to claim that alcohol is "good for me". The truth is that the vessels of clay that we call our bodies die a little every day. More likely than not, alcohol, a cigar, a marbled steak, Tylenol, and 15+ minutes of direct sunshine will all speed up our bodies clocks. That said, I have news for everyone. "None of us are getting out of here alive". If you had wls, you already made a huge deposit of extra lifetime in your bodies clock. Sure, abstinence might help you make it to 90 or 95 and if that's important to you, abstain. Me, I'm happy knowing that I potentially added 15-20 years through my wls. It's all relative and I'll keep drinking socially because I believe the psychological benefits outweigh the physiological costs. But that's just me!

Skinny Cow heavenly crisp. My biggest downfall is the calorie and carb bomb that is alcohol. I love wine and margaritas, and aside from being a super cheap date, I know these things have zero nutritional value but still refuse to give them up. Sent from my SCH-I435 using the BariatricPal App

I'm glad everyone has been respectful too. Be careful with the claims in the popular press on health benefits of wine. It's actually much more complicated than "the flavonoids protects you from cancer." Here is an interesting presentation summarizing some of the major studies: http://kisefront02.ki.se/sites/default/files/alcohol_women.pdf The health benefit might be from one glass for women...but that ends with more than one. There is a very slight increase in morbidity as you drink more. But so little that British health officials said to effect "nothing alarming, just warn people to be careful." The most interesting question some researchers are asking is "wine drinkers seem to be more social, and having friends seems to be more important than the wine itself." Wine has been a medicine for 5000 years. Paul in the bible told his protege Timothy to take a little wine for his stomach. But I'm under no illusion that having a glass is going to make me healthier. Hanging around with friends and enjoying laughter might be great medicine, but that is not my motivation ...my motivation is I really enjoy it. Enjoy life, but don't fool yourself over this, I can look at my own family and see the dangers of abuse of alcohol and drugs, but I also enjoy the relaxing properties of drinking. Just be a responsible adult and keep your eyes and mind open.

Wow a mature discussion without anyone getting nasty! I concur with @@OKCPirate says about the term "toxin". At certain doses virtually anything can be termed a "toxin". In fact, there is a vast database supporting the fact that there is a therapeutic dosage of alcohol between 1-2 drinks per day that significantly extend lifespan. Being honest, I don't normally stop at 1-2 drinks, nor do I want to drink everyday. Weirdly enough, post surgery, I enjoy stout and porter beers that are bubbly due to nitrogen rather than carbon dioxide. Yesterday being a beautiful sunny day, and I had already been to the gym, and done all of my outdoor chores, I drank 4 guiness nitro cans in my hot tub while reading a magazine and soaking up the sun. Enjoyed the heck out of it.

@@Connie Stapleton PhD - Thanks for the clarification. I understand the warnings and advice to abstain to maximize success. The tone just comes across like this scene from Mean Girls: The term toxin is loaded, pejorative and a bit misleading. Tylenol is toxic. Vitamin D is too. Both can be hard on the liver and fatal in high doses. But these are acceptable risks in moderation. Alcohol is rough on the liver in high doses. It can be fatal in the most extreme cases. There are risks in sex, driving, and even walking on a treadmill, so I heed the cautions. And to be clear, when I discuss this subject with fellow WLS people, I do share my cautions based upon my experience, research and warn of possible red flags and dangers signs to watch for. It is a danger area. Alcohol may have put me in a stall, but that's why I am abstaining for a season to test this out. In short, I don't disagree with your message, just the words (rhetoric in the classic sense of the word). Thanks for what you do, and I do have a great deal of respect for those of you who work with people in recovery from substance abuse. It is a tough job, where you know most are not going to succeed and it is often heart breaking work, so take care of yourself too (this is a major part of my sister's work, and I always remind her "there is a reason why the airline tells you to put on your own oxygen mask before you put one on those around you, and don't forget it.").

Have you considered attending some OA meetings and/or working the steps around food? When you read the Big Book and change the words alcohol and alcoholic to food and compulsive eater, does it still apply? I agree with others, the sleeve is not a magic cure buy it has been a miracle for me. That said, I think the reason I am seeing results is in part because of the mental work I have done around food up to now and in part because I have radically changed the way I eat. I too recommend you start tracking your food with MyFitnessPal or a similar app. Focus on getting enough Protein (at least 100 grams since you are a guy and an athlete). Avoid starches, added sugars, and fried foods. Completely cut out anything with high fructose corn syrup. Choose healthy, whole foods instead of pre-packaged processed foods. Eat good fats. Take Vitamins (at least a Multivitamin and possibly D3). Exercise (sounds like you are already doing so). Wean yourself off of caffeine and carbonation. I would suggest you check in with a good NUT to talk about your goals: losing weight, running, etc. so that he or she can help you determine the level of macros you need (protein, fat, and carbs) for your activity level and to lose weight. One of two things will happen. Either you will lose the weight and not need surgery, or you may decide to still have surgery but you will be better prepared. Keep in mind that whether you have surgery or not, when losing weight you WILL experience stalls. It's how you deal with those stalls that will determine your success. Keep us posted on how you are doing and what you decide.

@@SweetPeas Glad to hear that Mayo is giving a consistent message. And glad that it's not overbearing. My point is not about being absolute or overbearing... it's specifically related to the bariatric professionals who are the "leaders of the pack." My position is that this governing body needs to have a more definite RECOMMENDATION, based on the fact that alcohol is a toxin that can have deleterious effects on the absorption of essential nutrients, in addition to other possible negative effects. A recommendation is different than a "thou shalt not." Now that pizza... that's another issue all together! Take care and thank you.

There's a "governing body of WLS"? A governing body? Really? You do realize, don't you, that bariatric surgeons don't even agree about whether a sleeve stretches post-op. This business about "alcohol is a toxin" is such a broad-brush assertion -- since toxicity of a substance (including drugs) is dependent on dosage.

@@CowgirlJane I'm with you on the cigarettes! We could certainly rant about that! Please remember that my comments are specifically related to the bariatric professionals who are the "leaders of the pack." My position is that this governing body needs to have a more definite RECOMMENDATION, based on the fact that alcohol is a toxin that can have deleterious effects on the absorption of essential nutrients, in addition to other possible negative effects. A recommendation is different than a "thou shalt not." Thanks.

@@Christinamo7 Given that alcohol is a toxin, then it's not a "wise" thing for anyone to do, really! But I'm not saying anything about no one, WLS patient or not, EVER having alcohol. Every person is individually responsible for whatever they put into their bodies. My message is not about judging those who drink or smoke or whatever... My message is about a governing body taking a more clear stance in their RECOMMENDATION. Please remember that my comments are specifically related to the bariatric professionals who are the "leaders of the pack." My position is that this governing body needs to have a more definite RECOMMENDATION, based on the fact that alcohol is a toxin that can have deleterious effects on the absorption of essential nutrients, in addition to other possible negative effects. A recommendation is different than a "thou shalt not." Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

@@OKCPirate I agree very much with the minister's quote: "very little good comes form the absolute shall." Please remember that my comments are specifically related to the bariatric professionals who are the "leaders of the pack." My position is that this governing body needs to have a more definite RECOMMENDATION, based on the fact that alcohol is a toxin that can have deleterious effects on the absorption of essential nutrients, in addition to other possible negative effects. A recommendation is different than a "thou shalt not." Thanks for the website referral. I'll definitely look at it! I definitely agree that people are different and also agree with Dee Hock. I am suggesting that there are simple, clear recommendations with the medical reasons as to why alcohol is contraindicated for WLS patients. I'm not saying to set rules. I'm so glad hearing that you and your kids have great communication. Very awesome. Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts!

@@CowgirlJane I love your comparison between alcohol and ice cream and how one calls your name and one doesn't. I also completely agree that WLS is not a "one size fits all" kind of thing. People definitely need to know the things that may need to be "off limits" for them and make healthy decisions accordingly. That will be different for every person. Please remember that I am only talking about RECOMMENDATIONS. And recommendations from those who are the governing body of WLS. It's not about saying ALL or NOTHING, nor does where I am coming from having anything to do with WLS patients being able to make good decisions - or not. What I am saying is that BECAUSE alcohol is a toxin and may interfere with absorption of essential nutrients, the governing body's RECOMMENDATION, not MANDATE, be that it is not a wise decision to consume alcohol after weight loss surgery. Thank you!

so my question for the OP, do you think no one WLS or not, should ever consume alcohol? it is a toxin for everyone, afterall. I do enjoy an occasional drink - and hope I will tolerate that again once I get to my maintenance level, however if I no longer care for it that will not be the end of the world for me either, but some of my friends will get lovely presents.

@@2goldengirl Please remember that I am only talking about RECOMMENDATIONS. And recommendations from those who are the governing body of WLS. It's not about saying ALL or NOTHING, nor does where I am coming from having anything to do with WLS patients being able to make good decisions - or not. What I am saying is that BECAUSE alcohol is a toxin and may interfere with absorption of essential nutrients, the governing body's RECOMMENDATION, not MANDATE, be that it is not a wise decision to consume alcohol after weight loss surgery. I totally agree that each and every person is responsible for their own health. Thank you!

@@SweetPeas So glad to hear that the medical professionals on your team said no alcohol! Where did you have your surgery? @@SweetPeas So glad to hear that the medical professionals on your team said no alcohol! Where did you have your surgery?

I didn't have alcohol until 6 months out. Warning - it will hit you faster than before!

My doc's perspective on the subject is that ideally alcohol should be a never again thing, but realistically, people being human, his real absolute is for none at all during the weight loss phase (something we sign up for during the psych evaluation). His biggest concern, beyond the long term transfer addiction issue that is the centerpiece of this article, is liver health. Or livers are usually in marginal, at best, condition from our obesity, and it is further taxed by its role in metabolizing all the fat that we are rapidly losing; it doesn't need any more stress from metabolizing alcohol (which beyond being a toxic as noted, is specifically a liver toxin. His perspective is somewhat colored by his background as a biliopancreactic (liver/pancreas) transplant surgeon before he got into bariatrics and continuing along side that practice. Addressing the obesity problem can significantly reduce the demand for transplants; alcoholism is another significant source of such demand. He does not want to see any of his bariatric patients coming back on his transplant table.

I wasn't allowed alcohol until 3 months post-op.

my doctor and nut said alcohol would not hurt me once I am fully healed. I like whiskey, and I like wine, especially red. but these early months are when I am loosing weight the best and I am not going to waste the carbs in the first 6 months. I tended to have a drink oh, 2-3 a month - and I cook with wine. Once I am down in my weight it will just have to be factored in to my "carb allowance" and, practice at home - I sure won't have my first drink in public. I think this will also be my only exception to not drinking while eating. Because it will be a special occasion, I think it's better to have a little food in my tummy. Talk to your team, see what they recommend based on your personal medical history, medications, and surgery type.

It's been a month, when can I do a shot of whiskey? Sent from my SM-N910V using the BariatricPal App

@@VSGAnn2014 Very nicely stated. Thank you for adding your experience! I agree with your psychologist on several points but not on others. I have also had certification as an alcohol and drug therapist for 25 years, so in addition to my 12 years specifically in the field of bariatrics, I have an extensive background in substance abuse. The data is limited about alcohol and WLS. I happen to think the problem is much more extensive than the literature suggests regarding transfer addiction. No matter what, alcohol is and always will be a drug, a toxin and has an effect on the absorption of nutrients. You, and all persons, are free to choose what to eat and drink! I'm very sad to hear about your husband. Please take care of yourself while you are caring for him. Thank you. Connie

I'm 19.5 months post-op (sleeve surgery). I am a woman and a social drinker, defined (for women) as having no more than one alcoholic drink (1.5 ounces of spirits or 5 ounces of wine) a day and no more than 7 drinks in a week. I have one drink most days, but not every day. Earlier this week, I brought up the subject of social drinking to my psychologist whom I've been seeing for the last 24 months. Like the OP, he has a Ph.D. in psychology. Although he has a general practice, his practice includes many bariatric patients and others who have medical conditions and need to improve their self-care. He also delivers day-long pre-op bariatric surgery orientation and educational classes, so he's very well versed in the latest research re WLS patients' nutritional challenges (which vary considerably according to the specific WLS they undergo), emotional challenges, medical complications, the potential for transfer addictions and pre-conditions and correlates related to those transfer addictions, and anything else you'd expect someone who teaches that class and consults with bariatric patients to know. I raised the subject of social drinking with my psychologist to invite his perspective about my current use of alcohol because a few months ago my husband's cancer reappeared after being in remission for less than a year. In addition to being my husband's primary care giver, I don't want to do anything to jeopardize my own self-care as a recovering obese person. Specifically, I asked him if he thought I should be drinking at this time, if he thought I was drinking too much, and what red flags around alcohol could appear in circumstances like mine. We had a great discussion. He repeated several things which I had learned from studying research studies available online as well, including: 1. Transfer addictions with alcohol do happen, but not to the extent that this topic is discussed in the lay literature. He said that most people who have trouble with alcohol post-op had trouble with alcohol pre-op. 2. He said that there is a smaller percentage (5% or 6%) of WLS patients who did NOT have alcohol issues pre-op who do develop problems with alcohol post-op. 3. He said that my continuing social drinking is something I should keep a mindful awareness of -- about not only how much I'm drinking but why I'm drinking and what benefits I derive from it. He asked why I drink, and I answered that I enjoy the ritual of it and the tastes of it -- either a scotch before dinner or a glass of wine paired with the meal. He asked if I ever drank to inebriation, and I said no, that's not why I drink. 4. He said he would be concerned if I were to use alcohol to medicate or manage my emotions in times of stress. I'm not doing that -- even now. Alcohol has never been my go-to drug to medicate my feelings. I'm in the camp of @@CowgirlJane and others here in that of all the things I worry about wasting calories on, the 100-135 calories spent on a pre-dinner single malt scotch or a glass of wine with dinner is the least of my worries. (My current maintenance calorie budget is 1,800/day.) However, the substance I do struggle with in terms of portion-creep that challenges my discipline is chocolate -- specifically, dark chocolate with sea salt. About six weeks ago I had to declare a moratorium on that stuff. Over a period of three months, I'd edged up from one square of chocolate after dinner to two squares to four squares to (gulp!) six squares ... every damn night! I seriously doubt that dark chocolate is a toxin, but it was sure about to make me its b***h! So for me, mindfulness, moderation and common sense will be the keys to my maintenance success. But total abstinence and perfection -- not so much. EDIT: P.S. I've lost 100 pounds and now weigh 135 pounds. I reached my initial weight loss goal (150 pounds) 8.5 months post-op. I've weighed at or below that weight for the last year.

@@OKCPirate Thank for the reading by John Grisham! Indeed, a very good narrative! As I have said, I don't have a problem with people drinking alcohol - if it's not contraindicated for them for whatever reason. I stand firm in my belief that for those who have WLS, alcohol has no place in their "diet." Very much enjoyed the video! Connie