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@ - thanks for the post, very interesting read. @@MaryCatherine Umm, no. I wish it was, but it really isn't that simple. It is a good model. But the problem is people take it too literally. Hormones affect this, the food type affects and individual responses to different types of calories actually makes a difference. Most interesting article I've seen on this subject is here: http://drinks.seriouseats.com/2013/10/cocktail-science-do-alcohol-calories-count-digesting-spirits.html To make matters more complicated, just try and figure out how many calories are in your home cooked dinner. We are just doing gross estimates. But all that said, it is not a bad indicator, just not perfect and I would caution about being too dogmatic. The reason I'm posting this is some people will say "I burned 3500 calories yesterday, but I didn't lose my pound." That's where this tool breaks down. You really have to log food/calories over a period of time. Your long term trend is what is most important. When you are honest with yourself, you will see when you started adding extra calories, and how that is affecting your weight...but that will only show up in the course of a month, not day by day. I hope I not discouraging people from keeping track of calories, carbs, fat and Protein. Just realize these are hardly perfect numbers. I am looking to stay around 1100 calories and 100g of protein (more on heavy workout days). This has kept my weight consistent for nearly 18 months. I am about ready to experiment with a 5/2 method of controlled fasting (very interesting idea brought up by @lipsticklady). All we can do is be very honest with ourselves with our tracking, and pay attention to the scale and if you are really serious with the calipers to see what your percentage of body fat is. All the scale and calorie charts really do is act as tools. Hmm, familiar theme, just as your sleeve is a tool, so are these.

I have been around goal weight plus minus 5-10 lbs for some time. I got my band in 2008. Had issues with dilated pouch/esophagus. They remove my fill liquid for 4 months, I gain weight. They put it back in and it's twice as hard to get back down the 20, 30 lbs. I do it but without some liquid in my band, I'm like an alcoholic but with food. I know this. Food is my weak point, my comforter, my vice. I try not to gain weight during that phase but so far I have lost the battle. I'm at goal weight and now I hear I might have to have liquid removed yet again. I have the opportunity to change to the sleeve. One doctor says do the revision, another says I may go underweight. What would you do if the band served you so well for many many years?

My experience, and this is mines and no one else so, take this information at your own risk. First time I had a drink of alcohol was literally 10 days post surgery. It was new years eve and I had like two sips of super cheap champagne and I was very tipsy right away. I didn't have another drink of alcohol of any kind until a good year after that event. What I have noticed that with drinking is that it does depend on the drink that I am consuming and I can go from tipsy, to buzzed very quickly depending on the drink and strength of said drink. Shots (tequila, rum, and whiskey) are indeed one shot and done sort of drinks for me now. If I go beyond one of those, which I think the most I have had so far almost two years out of surgery was 3 shots in one evening within a 15 minute span of consuming all three shots, and I was very buzzed (lightly drunk). It took about an half and hour to an hours for that buzz to go away where I could feel "normal" again. What I have learned is that if I pace myself, usually only stick to one or two drinks max (on the hard stuff listed above), and sip them very slowly and moderately, that I can be alright. But again a mixed drink will now last me damn near an entire night vs pre surgery I could have K.O'ed quite a few of them before even feeling remotely buzzed let alone intoxicated. I personally don't like the get buzzed "high" quick feeling that drinking gives me especially if I am out at like a bar/public environment vs at home or at a trusted friends home. When I am out, I will stick to drinks like hard ciders or dare I say a Mike's Hard Lemonades sort of drink. Beer I really don't drink much of anymore and when I do its usually a stout and again only 1 now. Stouts tend to be heavier beers than your light lagers, and with more yeast and hops makes for a more fuller tummy experience. Wine, I just had recently for the first time in years, it was a dry red wine and it did have a bit of the buzzy feeling to it but it was like 4oz and it took me a good 30 minutes to consume it. Tequila, especially patron, 1 and done. I know if I go beyond that then I'll be in some troubles. Now I will be two years post op this Dec, and I can say that in the time post surgery I can still say that I have had less than 10 drinks in that time frame. I know how drinking for some of us can be a slippery slop to leading towards unwanted addictions and coping mechanisms. I get that, and I think its why I choose to wait so long to attempt to drink anything post surgery, especially after the NYE thing. But it is something that I have learned to enjoy, just on very special occasions and in the right situations.

It isn't unheard of. Yoyo dieting seems to effect your body's natural set point where it starts going into "its a famine, slow everything down" type of mode. Try timing some Protein (25g) before and after a workout. I don't know why (and as far as I can tell no one else knows either) but certain ethnicities do better with carbs and others with protein. It just may be some things that our ancestors had that allowed them to pass their genes forward long ago. I have experimented enough with myself to know that I do really well when I am eating meat and a few vegies. If I throw too much fruit in the mix, I start gaining. You are in a strange netherland. If you are not already, log your food and see what combination works for you. When you start googling this, you will start realizing "a calorie isn't really a calorie." A piece of wood has calories. But those calories can't be absorbed. Alcohol has calories, but not all are absorbed. Some people seem to more easily absorb certain calories. Hormones effect this too. If you find some good research, please share it with the group.

Everyone will have a different experience with alcohol but I'm much more of a lightweight than I was.

Hmmm... I didn't think about that. On first pass I'd think that, as bypass patients are missing the beginning of their small intestine, they'd absorb less alcohol, as the majority of absorption happens in the upper small intestine. However, I'll need to read and look more (Yes, I am a nerd, and formerly a scientist, so I like this stuff! It's keeping me busy while I sip and recuperate from sleeve surgery on 9/15!)

That's the bypass surgery, also. We are all sleeves (I think) that responded in this thread. There is a malabsorption thing going on with the bypass that we don't have, so I think alcohol effects bypass patients even more. I know it does my hubby, even at 10 years out. Two beers at dinner, and I'm driving, lol.

My dietician said you'll know if your pouch is stretch. I experienced hunger the first time last week and called I'm 6wks out and I should be eating 4oz every three to four hours I drink know but not too fast but I going to fulling foods.... This weekend I was very bad I had three boneless wings two bites of pizza and alcohol over the whole day sat and sun being out of town and I will never do it again I stayed so full for hours I got scared...I hope my stomach go backroad normal I took milk of magnesia this morning Sent from my iPhone using the BariatricPal App

I found this on the Michigan State Appellate Defender Office's website. Not necessarily a "scientific" site, but this is a concise explanation of what I've been reading: Gastric bypass surgery results in alcohol moving much more quickly from the stomach into the small intestine. Because 80% of beverage alcohol is absorbed in the small intestine, this surgery results in a much higher peak BAC than with the equivalent amount of alcohol consumed before the surgery. Additionally, there is far less gastric alcohol dehydrogenase available for the approximately 20% of initial metabolism of alcohol which normally occurs in the stomach. Due to these anatomical and physiological changes, drinking after gastric bypass surgery is similar to drinking on an empty stomach, but creates an even higher peak BAC because there is almost no opportunity for the alcohol to begin to break down before entering the bloodstream. An even better comparison would be to look at the differences in oral consumption verses intravenous consumption. Because a gastric bypass patient has so little stomach left after surgery, alcohol enters the bloodstream almost as if it was injected by a needle. This is borne out by the scientific research. According to one study, alcohol metabolism was significantly different between the bypass patients and the control group who had no stomach surgery. The bypass patients had a greater peak alcohol level, and it also took them longer to reach zero or no alcohol. The difference in peak BAC is significant. The bypass patients were at .08 or unlawful when the control group only had a BAC of just .05.2 This is a nearly 40% difference!

I'm gonna put this disclaimer up first: I'm almost 5 weeks out from surgery and am NOT thinking about drinking now or anytime in the near future. That being said... My NUT told me that after getting the sleeve, one's alcohol tolerance is really low. I don't drink very much...a drink at Christmas, a drink out at dinner with friends, etc. So, not drinking right now is no biggie at all. However, I'm curious, if and when I have a drink at some point down the road, how much of a lightweight will I be? Are we talking one sip of a Fuzzy Naval and I'm stripping my clothes off and licking the bar top? How bad is it? Sent from my iPhone using the BariatricPal App

eating around the sleeve seems to refer to high calorie foods which don't give the bang for the buck you need. You can probably cram in mashed potatoes all day, but you are not going to lose weight. @@Dub figured out that nuts can be a problem (good food, too many calories). Alcohol and nuts seem to be the worse. All that said, I use jerky's as "rescue food" which I think of is things I keep in my travel bag when I am not sure I can get enough Protein. It can be addictive, and I have to watch it, but I do dig it. It makes a stupid layover a good event, becaue I get to break out the gourmet jerky .

I was sleeved october 2016. and I was able to eat most foods that I wanted. I am vegan. I am always hungry and feel that I am eating all day. besides eating veggies and whole grain. I consume tons of pop corn. every night also before my surgery I was a beer drinker now I hate beer but alcohol goes down like nothing.I am fifteen pounds away from my goal but I am stalled. and not losing anymore despite riding my bike 3 to 5 times a week at 16 miles a clip. anyone else having the same issues??? I am trying to increase Protein but so far its not working. any suggestions

"Can" is asking for permission. "Should" is for what is inevitable or likely to happen in the future. Can I eat tacos, drink alcohol, eat a 20oz steak when I am barely a week or two post? Sure...you SHOULD have never had the WLS eitherif you were NOT going follow your medical team plans concerning your post-op diet.

As much as I love vaping, and how much better I feel since the switch years ago... If one can just quit cold turkey and never go back, that is just awesome. The money spent is real too. Lol coffee, a caramel green apple vape and knitting gives me the "Je ne sais quoi" daily pleasure. Thank goodness I never cared for alcohol, it makes me nauseous. For that I'm thankful. Sent from my SM-N910V using the BariatricPal App Thank you for not being offended. Honestly, we have to do what works for each of us individually, I just wouldn't want anyone to go back to anything when the nicotine withdrawal is already passed. Mental craving is a whole other story... Sort of like head hunger! Sent from my iPhone using the BariatricPal App

As much as I love vaping, and how much better I feel since the switch years ago... If one can just quit cold turkey and never go back, that is just awesome. The money spent is real too. Lol coffee, a caramel green apple vape and knitting gives me the "Je ne sais quoi" daily pleasure. Thank goodness I never cared for alcohol, it makes me nauseous. For that I'm thankful. Sent from my SM-N910V using the BariatricPal App

I think that when there is an extremely negative reaction toward someone who is new to the process when they ask a question about if they "can" eat something as opposed to if they "should", this really helps no one. When the question is "can" I have a taco when the person is first on solids, the correct answer is that yes, you can with certain modifications (I suggested skipping the hard taco shell, enjoying low fat turkey, and going easy on the fatty stuff). Should you? Probably not, but medically, yes, you can. If the question is "can" I have a drink or two a weeks after surgery or the week before, medically the answer is that, yes, they can. I tend to reply a lot to the "can I eat this" threads because I think that it is important for people to understand the difference between "can" and "should" because when we tell people they CANNOT do something, when in reality, medically they absolutely can, we just perpetuate misinformation. You can eat PB&J in the soft phase- this will not hurt your new stomach. It's not going to help you lose weight, and it would have made me feel crummy, but nothing physically is going to break in your stomach if you eat that. On the other hand, "can I eat almonds and sharp, hard crackers" 3 days after surgery is a "h*ll NO" that is going to mess up your stomach. As examples outside of surgery...can you eat that entire box of brownies? Yes. You can. You are not going to immediately die from it. Should you? No, of course not, but the long-term health consequences are your concern and you have the right to do what you want to do. If you eat a box of brownies once a year and you are a healthy weight, then good for you! It's not my business! This to me is comparable to...can I eat cake on the soft foods stage? Sure you can! You're not going to lose weight, but that piece of cake is not going to be the single thing that kills you because it somehow caused your stomach to rip open and if you can learn to eat junk food in very moderate amounts at an early stage and this is what works for you, then who am I to judge the way in which you get healthy? Comparably, can you smoke cigarettes while you are on oxygen? Yes, physically you can, but you are likely going to burn your face off, thus causing an immediately bad result. This to me is like, "I am 2-days post-op, can I eat a jar of peanuts?". Sure you can, but you have a really good chance of jacking up you stomach, so medically no, do not eat that. When people are asking if they can eat something, my impression is that the vast majority of the time they are seeking clarification as to whether they are physically going to hurt their stomach or themselves in the immediate short term. Whether they happen to die of a heart attack in 10 years because they kept eating junk is not the question, but rather the question is if they are going to rip open their new stomach and die from a leak. As such, it is important to differentiate between the "should" and the "can" and flipping out on people because they ask if they can have a few bites of junk food when it is entirely safe for them to do so accomplishes nothing. I have had junk food as part of my diet since the first point it was safe to do so. My first "soft" meal was a chicken taco salad. I ate the chicken, the tomato, and some of the sour cream. I ate about 5 bites of it and was no longer hungry. I used to regularly eat 1/4 a panini from Panera when I was losing- it was my lunch and calorie wise it fit into the plan. I have been at goal now for over 18 months and I am almost at 2 years of being within 5 pounds of goal and there are plenty of times now and when I was losing that I did not follow the rules. Sometimes I eat sweets, sometimes I drink alcohol, sometimes I eat other gross things and because I have been allowed to have them in very small amounts since the start of having the sleeve, they are not some banned substance that I crave and feel like I am being denied. This is what works for me and what may work for someone else. So yes, you CAN eat the vast majority of things people ask questions about, whether you SHOULD or not is the issue and frankly, I have no interest in telling an adult what they should be doing with their diet when I am hardly a 100% compliant patient and I ended up just fine. I see no value in telling an adult that they should not eat cake, judging them for their choices and their questions, and acting like I am better than them because I lost weight and they are still fat. They have a mirror, they have a scale, and they likely have a basic level of education about nutrition. The question is CAN not SHOULD and I am a little over the holier than thou comments that treat people like they are a complete moron for wondering if they are going to hurt their stomach by eating something they SHOULD not be eating when every single one of us has at some point eaten something we SHOULD not be eating, but which, medically, we absolutely CAN, in moderation, enjoy. I am now going to go drink my sugar free Red Bull and eat my carb-laden, protein-lacking, sugary Cereal for Breakfast. Yum.

It's amazing to me the lengths people will go to to sabotage themselves after surgery. I normally just shake my head and continue on. We have to want to make these changes for ourselves, we know when we do wrong. Me personally, I don't want to know if I'll dump if I take a bite of chocolate. 1) I never want to throw up or dump 2) I don't want to eat something bad and NOT get sick, then I'll know I can eat that item. Nope, I'll just convince myself I'll get seriously ill and it's not worth it. I'm surprised on my birthday how much I enjoyed watching everyone else enjoy the cupcakes I brought for treats, and was never tempted to even have a taste. Sugar, Pasta, covering everything in cheese, alcohol.... my health is worth SO much more than the taste of any of those things. Sent from my SM-G925V using the BariatricPal App

I'm not nice, I'm simply tired of being smacked down for pointing out the obvious. So...tacos, ice cream, popcorn and alcohol for everyone!!! :D No!! You're defeating the purpose. Sent from my KFJWI using the BariatricPal App

Ok so I was struggling. I mean really struggling with getting my Protein because i cannot do the shakes. Make me vomit every time. So I ordered gene pro unflavored and tried adding it to drinks, foods etc and still couldn't do it. I could still taste it. So today I had a genius idea. (Not really genius but it is to me ) I mixed the gene pro with one small shot of a beverage of my liking. I used horchata (not the alcohol horchata). Mixed my gene pro in, held my nose and got my 30 grams of protein with one throw back of the shot glass! Didn't even taste it. So I will do that twice more today and be beyond my protein requirements. Sent from my iPhone using the BariatricPal App

I wouldn't say it fails, because technically the tool is still there for us to utilize. I know people who still have amazing restriction at 3+ years out, which helps them with maintenance. It's just easier to kind of ignore it and go back to bad habits further out as things really "normalize" for us. As long as we keep the same good habits and practice them more times than not, we should be good And yes, just like alcoholics, we never "get over" being obese. We always have to be aware that we can relapse if we let our guard down.

I was told we had to lose weight. I lost 15 lbs. When I went for my last preop visit I was told if I gained they would not do the surgery. The Dr needs to move your liver which needs to be pliable. That means high Protein, low carb, limit alcohol. You're having major surgery. You need to be in the best health you can be for it. Sent from my VS986 using the BariatricPal App

To help with nausea sniff alcohol pads.....I've been to the point it was just about to come up....sitting in front of trash can waiting and smelling those alcohol pads....works immediately Sent from my SM-G920V using the BariatricPal App

You put in the time. You put in the money. You go to all the appointments and you jump through all the hoops. You do the pre-op diet. You have the surgery. You cared enough about yourself to make the commitment to WLS and you physically and permanently alter your body... And then you get mad because someone tells you not to eat the d@mn taco? Not to drink alcohol or soda 2.783 days after surgery? To put down the freaking pizza'? To stop eating bread/rice/pasta/bananas/hoagies/20oz steaks TEMPORARILY while your body heals and you get to your goal weight? To actually stick to YOUR doctor's plan? Even better, you get mad when they only do so AFTER you ASKED???? SERIOUSLY PEOPLE? Yes. I'd guess most of us have head hunger and cravings. I'd guess most of us had a nibble or sip of something off plan. I've no doubt that most of us were not 100% compliant 100% of the time. But I'd also guess that those of us who have done this, gotten to goal weight and stayed there have been compliant the majority of the time. I'd also guess that many of us who have been successful would appreciate a swift kick in the rear if/when we ask a question I bet we already know the answer to. It's not rocket science and this isn't Romper Room. Make good choices, stick to your doctor's orders or don't, but don't get mad if you fail to get the results you want when you refuse to do what you are supposed to do. And don't get mad when someone tells you that what you are putting in your mouth isn't the best idea in the world even though you want it right now. Value yourself more than that. Seriously.

We are told even small amounts of alcohol could cause major dumping, so not worth that chance. Have dumped before. Don't care to repeat it. Did I have a period of mourning for "lost" foods? Yes. Am I over it? Yes! Hubby and I go to a Mexican place and he orders steak/chicken fajitas. I scrape about 2/3 c of meat and veggies onto an extra plate. He eats the rest and we are both satisfied. I might eat some of the refried Beans and cheese, if there are any. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using the BariatricPal App

I'm not nice, I'm simply tired of being smacked down for pointing out the obvious. So...tacos, ice cream, popcorn and alcohol for everyone!!! :D Don't you think you both are being a bit snobby and judgmental? I certainly do. food has been a problem for MOST of us on here--your no exception, I'm sure! This is a forum for people who need support, not sarcasm and ridicule. Everyone handles this change differently and adjusts differently. She asked a question. I'm sure she wasn't looking for sarcasm or a scolding nor did she deserve one. I feel like I'm in "Mean Girls" the VSG chronicles. Sent from my iPhone using the BariatricPal App