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Hi! I was sleeved on 11/3 and I had the same question as there are quite a bit of holiday parties going on this time of year. My NUT said I can have alcohol in stage 3, so that would have been about 5 weeks post surgery, but to be mindful of sugary drinks and empty calories. I've had two glasses of wine on two different occasions, slow sips, seemed to take a while just to get through one. I didn't have any ill effects or anything. I also drank a lot of Water that night and the next day. Very helpful sleeved November 8th. 27yrs. HW 273 SW 233 CW 215. YOUTUBE. SC. MFP. IG @macon_me

Hi! I was sleeved on 11/3 and I had the same question as there are quite a bit of holiday parties going on this time of year. My NUT said I can have alcohol in stage 3, so that would have been about 5 weeks post surgery, but to be mindful of sugary drinks and empty calories. I've had two glasses of wine on two different occasions, slow sips, seemed to take a while just to get through one. I didn't have any ill effects or anything. I also drank a lot of Water that night and the next day.

Hi, your tolerance to alcohol will decrease; and as you know if you force anything you will throw up. Recently I had a legal issue regarding drinking and driving. So play it cool, and say that your good on the shots / drinks if you don't want anyone to know why. Better safe than sorry. Good luck

A little birthday cake, shrimp, a little alcohol, drinking less than 20-30 minutes after eating, on a rare occurence? Shame on you Mister! You need to turn in your BariatricPal card. In all seriousness, you did a great job. You are enjoying life post surgery, very mindfully and intelligently. Kudos to you. From the title of the post, I would have thought this involved hookers, cocaine and a bottle of Jack Daniels.

Well, maybe not all of them. And it was more like I bent the rules instead of trashing them and behaving like an unrestrained hedonist. Mrs. LittleBill and I were invited to the 60th birthday party of one of our neighbors. Today was the big event. This neighbor lives in the swanky development that was built on the rest of the farmland from which our little slice of heaven was parceled off. Any of the parties back there are guaranteed to be overflowing with all sorts of food and booze. This one promised to be no different. I knew I had a challenge in front of me, so I planned out my actions ahead of time, keeping in mind the 80/20 rule advocated by the people in my program. We started off with some good stuff. We can see their house from our back porch. It is about 250 yards away. Going straight there is out of the question though, as it involves negotiating some steep hills, and a fencerow with brambles, sticky burr bushes, an old wire fence designed to catch the unaware, and various wild animals that often don't take kindly to being disturbed. So we opted to walk the road, making the trip about 500 yards or so. It is not all that long, but any walking is good walking. I joked with Mrs. LittleBill that we could drink as much as we wanted since we weren't driving. The walk back might be longer, but the cops would not get us. Of course, we do not drink like that. It is too far for one of us to drag the other, and besides, it is not good for our livers. But going in, I knew I needed a plan ahead of time to be successful. As soon as we entered, we were offered drinks. We both opted for the punch bowl, which was some sort of sangria concoction. This had the advantage of being weak, and in this case it was not too sugary, so that was good. I filled my glass about halfway up and proceeded to nurse it very slowly. So Bad Thing No. 1 was drinking alcohol, but I had already tried it with the blessing of my CRNP, and I knew what I could do. I merely write "bad" because it is one of the favorite things for people to wag their fingers about. I reconnoitered the food tables to see what was there that would be relatively safe to eat. They had a big ole pot of meatballs in a very light juice that looked promising. There was also some sort of wraps that looked like mostly carbs, so they were off the list immediately. The ham and cheese sandwiches with the big fluffy rolls were out. Next to those, though, were some very tasty looking crab cakes. The breading looked to be very thin, so they went on the maybe list. In the other room there was a huge bowl of peeled shrimp and a bowl of cocktail sauce next to it. That went on the definite list. After taking some very small sips of my drink, I combined a couple of things into Bad Thing No. 2. I violated the do not eat within 30 minutes rule to sample some of the delicacies mentioned above. I probably went with 10 minutes. The shrimp went down very well with just the smallest taste of cocktail sauce. The meatballs were mostly meat, and the juice was indeed light, with just a hint of sweetness. I let most of that drip off. The crab was excellent, and as I surmised, the breading was very light indeed. I am sure there was some filler, but it was also minimal. Bad Thing No. 3 was a very small - and I mean minuscule - piece of birthday cake. This was the kind of party where there were about 60 people present, and one sheet cake. I simply asked for a teeny tiny piece that was not a corner. Sweet things have been something of a challenge for me since surgery. It is not that I crave them. In fact, I have not craved them at all, and I was a 2-3 pack junkie of Tastykakes every day before I started my program. Since I started this journey back in June, cake has been on the "Do not eat" list. The challenge for me since surgery is the sugar tends to upset my stomach. So I nibbled at my tiny piece very slowly, while talking with a group of neighbors. It is easy to eat slowly when you are telling stories. We spent about four hours there, and I was able to eat stuff that wasn't quite ideal, but not off the reservation. I sipped a bit of booze, and had a tiny bit of sugar. I am sitting here at home now, with no ill effects, and pounding down some Water to get myself back to my regular Spartan practice. It was an enjoyable time, and most satisfying was being able to camouflage myself in a way that no one suspected I had an odd eating pattern or requirement. One neighbor did notice I lost weight, and it was another guy. But he is happily married, so I don't have to worry about him hitting on me or anything. I was actually surprised he noticed. We wave at each other when he drives by, but we only come face to face about once a year. We had not seen each other up close and personal since October of '15. At the end, we made our way home in the near apocalypse snow flurries without incident. We'll see if we actually get the 1-3" they are forecasting.

My Dr.. Said no alcohol! Sent from my Z832 using the BariatricPal App

The one and only time I dumped was like a week post op and I was still on pureed foods. On the list of my approved foods was Sf chocolate pudding. I was sick for almost 3 hours over that cup of pudding. My doctor said it was a sensitivity to sugar alcohol. Sent from my SM-G930R4 using the BariatricPal App

Be super careful with alcohol. With WLS drinking alcohol is like getting an alcohol IV. With almost instant effects. Also if you ever had any addiction issue with it. The rate of alcoholism is sky high with WLS patients. I would say stay away from the stuff forever. Sent from my SM-G935P using the BariatricPal App

I was told I could reintroduce alcohol in moderation after I had reached my weight loss goal and maintained for a few months.

Hi -congratulations on your fabulous journey. I am pre-surgery and thinking long term... I see the surgery as those stabilisers you put on a kids bike... an opportunity to HAVE to eat well and create good habits that will become second nature. I'm on a high Protein low carb pre-op diet and was already restricting sugar for a few weeks. What I'm noticing already is how shockingly different stuff tastes when you don't kill your taste buds with sugar. I guess what I'm saying is your 'constant struggle' worries me and my question is this. Is it a struggle against hunger or a struggle not to eat sugar/processed food? I'm in it to win tut get anxious easily and I hear different things about post op. I have a friend who is eight years post op and who still eats like a sparrow. But she relapsed with her alcoholism so now has a bigger problem. And that in itself makes me think I need to continue my therapy as I'm sure the big part of the 'fix' will happen there. Sent from my iPad using the BariatricPal App

How long until you can consume alcohol? sleeved November 8th. 27yrs. HW 273 SW 233 CW 215. YOUTUBE. SC. MFP. IG @macon_me

I read somewhere to avoid or limit certain sugar substitutes that cause symptoms. One I know is Sorbitol (believe it has "sugar alcohol" even though it is sugar/calorie-free. (If I find the list of others, I'll post them.) Sorbitol is in the Italian Ices that I love. I was having one after each meal (like dessert). After I read that, I checked the ingredients and sure enough, the ices contain Sorbitol. So I only have one a day and eat it very slowly; so far so good. But more than one or eating it too quickly, can cause cramps for me. Good luck and hope you feel better.

Alcohol absorbtion changes post surgery in bi-pass and sleeve, but not so with the band... The authors concluded that alcohol absorption was considerably modified after sleeve gastrectomy with higher and longer blood alcohol values for equivalent amounts of alcohol. Hagedorn et al. compared 17 controls and 19 postgastric bypass patients after consuming 5 oz of red wine to assess the change in alcohol metabolism [15]. Alcohol breath analysis was performed every 5 minutes. They found peak alcohol breath level of .08% in the bypass patients and .05% in the control group (P = .004). The gastric bypass group needed 108 minutes to reach alcohol breath level of 0 versus 72 minutes in the control group (P = .001). However, the gastric bypass patients didn’t experience more symptoms than the control group. A prospective crossover study of 19 gastric bypass patients found that postbypass patients have significantly higher peak breath alcohol content after ingesting alcohol (5 oz. red wine) at both 3 months (.059%; P = .0003) and 6 months (.088%; P = .0008) postoperatively than matched preoperative controls (.024%) [16]. Patients also took considerably more time to return to sober at 3 months (61 minutes) and 6 months (88 minutes; P = .01) than preoperatively (49 minutes). https://asmbs.org/resources/alcohol-use-before-and-after-bariatric-surgery If you read this study you will see there is a very real need to be vary wary of alcohol use post surgery, and it might be even more dangerous if people in your family have alcohol problems. But I'm more and more convinced that IF you are going to drink, look up the Sinclair Method http://www.cthreefoundation.org/, , http://www.the-sinclair-method.com/the-sinclair-method-guide/step-5-the-golden-step-staying-cured/.

Here are a couple of items of note: 1. In 1990, Blum found a correlation between alcoholism and a genetic deficiency in dopamine-binding receptors in the brain, called D2 receptors. People with compromised D2 receptors seek higher thrills to satisfy their reward cravings than people with normal D2 receptors, Blum believes. He predicts that gastric bypass patients with a D2 deficiency turn to other high-reward activities, such as drinking alcohol, because they can’t binge eat with a constricted stomach. 2. There’s little evidence of higher alcoholism rates after a different common bariatric surgery: gastric banding. Also known as lap banding, this surgery installs an inflatable belt around the stomach to constrict it. Unlike gastric bypass, banding does not permanently alter the stomach’s architecture. The difference between the two surgeries suggests that alcohol abuse is related to structural changes from gastric bypass, said Alexis Conason, a New York City psychologist and researcher. In 2012, Conason published a study in JAMA Surgery that found a significant increase in alcohol use for patients after gastric bypass, but not gastric banding. The study also found no significant increase in patients’ use of other drugs, including cigarettes, or compulsive behaviors such as gambling. “If it were addiction transfer, we’d be seeing it across the board,” Conason said. Researchers have proposed a few physiological explanations for increased alcoholism specifically after gastric bypass. Some believe it’s due to changes in alcohol metabolism, since alcohol enters the bloodstream more quickly in a smaller stomach. A 2011 study from surgeons at Stanford University found that six months after surgery, gastric bypass patients reached higher blood alcohol levels more quickly than they did before surgery. This type of fast and high peak often characterizes addictive drugs, said North Dakota’s Mitchell. Cocaine and heroin, for example, both produce brief, intense rushes that leave users wanting more. But it’s also possible that increased alcohol dependence has nothing to do with alcohol absorption in the stomach. Recently, a team of researchers led by neuroscientists at the Pennsylvania State University College of Medicine found that rats that had been given gastric bypasses developed a higher dependence on alcohol. Here’s the twist: the effect held even when the rats were given alcohol intravenously instead of orally. The authors concluded that alcohol abuse after gastric bypass could very well occur independently of how quickly alcohol passes from the gut to the bloodstream. Instead, anatomical changes to the stomach might impact patients’ dopamine response, the Penn State researchers suggested. Some scientists have found that gastric bypass surgery can alter the signaling of D2 receptors. The mechanism for this is unclear, although preliminary research has identified altered patterns of gene expression in areas of the brain that process dopamine. Other researchers suggest that appetite-mediating gut hormones play a role, particularly those that affect dopamine signaling, such as insulin, leptin and grehlin. Scientists have shown that leptin and grehlin levels change after gastric bypass surgery, and both hormones are known to modulate alcohol consumption. http://scienceline.org/2015/01/alcoholism-after-gastric-bypass-is-it-in-your-mind-or-gut/

I had an online chat with Roy Eskapa, PhD who was Dr. Sinclair's associate about this... Now here is my question, has anyone looked into using Nax before they develop an alcohol problem? For instance, if someone has had WLS, hit's their goal weight and then wants to drink, can they take it as they start to keep the gaba receptors from beginning the cycle of dependence? The Indian Department of Health seems to be close recommending as a prophylactic: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2899995/. I don't know if anyone has studied this, or if you have. HAS NO EFFECT WE KNOW OF ON GABA BUT BLOCKS THE OPIOID SYSTEM. (WE RAN A SMALL TRIAL IN INDIA -- AMONG RURAL POOR -- WHEN THE MEDICATION RAN OUT OF FUNDS THOSE WHO SAMPLED ALCOHOL SOON RETURNED THE HEAVY DANGEROUS DRINKING SINCLAIR PROVED IN THE LAB ANIMALS THAT EVEN IF THEY CARRIED THE GENETIC PREDISPOSITION FOR ALCOHOL IF THEY WERE GIVEN NALOXONE OR NALMEFENE OR NALTREXONE THEY COULD NOT LEARN THE DRINKING RESPONSE ... SO HIS (Dr. Sinclair's) BIG THING BEFORE HE PASSED AWAY WE DISCUSSED IN HIS CABIN IN MARCH 2015 THAT EVENTUALLY FOLKS WOULD BE ABLE TO TEST IF THE GENES FOR MUTATION ON MU OPIOID RECEPTORS COULD BE RELIABLY TESTED THEN PARENTS COULD WARN CHILDREN ABOUT DRINKING AND YES IF THEY DID DRINK THEY SHOULD TAKE THE MEDICATION 1 HOUR BEFORE. IF THERE IS NO TEST YET CONFIRMED AS VALID AND RELIABLE THEN IF THERE IS A BLOOD RELATIVE WITH AN ADDICTION MEDIATED THROUGH THE OPIOID SYSTEM THEN IT IS WISE TO USE THE MEDICATION AS OUTLINED IN THE BOOK THE CURE FOR ALCOHOLISM

December 10, 2016 ====================================== Ok so here I am, 8 months later - still pre-surgery. I've got everything done. Been wearing my CPAP every night since September. Mental health evals done. Been attending monthly support meetings. All done. Except.... the weight loss. I'm stuck. No matter what I eat, I'm stuck at 12 lbs gone. I'm supposed to be down another 5 - 7 lbs before they will even schedule me with the surgeon. Then it's another 4-6 weeks before surgery depending on insurance, etc. 5lbs should be so easy. why am I having so much trouble? This is the last step. I really thought I'd be post-op by now, the only thing holding me back is ME. I think the most frustrating thing is that I have been eating fairly well, just too much of it. I eat lots of Protein, water/tea, veggies, fruits. I eat very few processed carbs, cut out coffee and alcohol a while ago, but I'm stuck. I think I'm going to have to be extremely strict the next 10 days (my next appt). They told me back in September (when I was the same weight I am now), that if I could get to within 5lbs of my doc's presurgery goal (which is about 5lbs less than I am now) they would let me meet with the surgeon after my October appt. So they set me up with the program coordinator for October (the one who decides if you get to see the surgeon). I maintained for October. They tried again for November. I maintained again. I'm back to meeting with the dietitian for December. I could have easily been post op but because of my lack of willpower, here i am. Into the new year now. On a positive note, at least I don't have to worry about recovery during the holidays. With the kids, family, hosting parties etc - I wasn't looking forward to that. And I'll still have 4months or so before Summer to lose some of this excess weight. Not as long as I'd hoped, but maybe I'll be one of those people that drops like 60lbs in 4 months. That would be nice. I'm just so ready for this change. So why am I holding myself back?

I thought this was going to be something along the lines of Lady Chatterly's Lover when I saw the title. As has been mentioned, go back to lean Protein for a while. Also, you mentioned you were "getting your liquids". Just because you get to the goal set for you doesn't mean you have to stop, or even that it is enough. So a little more drinking might help you some - Water and other non alcoholic things of course!

Thanks all. We've been talking about it a lot and he's feeling better. I think it's fear of the unknown and worrying about how this will affect our lives which right now center around food and alcohol. He is not overweight. He was blessed with a super-charged metabolism and can eat whatever he wants. I on the other hand have gained 100 lbs since we met 16 years ago. I am thankful he's loved me through the gain, and I am hopeful he'll be happy to have the old, thinner me back in the coming months. I know it will be hard but I'm so ready for it. Sent from my iPhone using the BariatricPal App

I like this but I think the alcoholism transference is more complicated than soothing with alcohol instead of food. We are skipping the mental component that a lot of people didn't really live life before WLS and are now enjoying life, sometimes in a way they never did before, and they are just going off the rails on partying. Some of us did that in College when everyone else was doing it, no need to repeat. There are other people that never had that chance and didn't learn the lessons of partying early on (all parties are the same, seriously, facts, thus one doesn't matter more than the next). Which is why more comprehensive post-op therapy is necessary for a lot of people. I don't want to derail this convo, I like where this is going but I still feel like everyone really ignores the mental and emotional aspects of massive weight loss for some people.

Gotcha. And you're absolutely right, if there's no big profit in it there's no advertising. There were a few raging alcoholics in my family (notice the past tense usage...), and something like Neltrexone could have saved their lives.

@@Malin - Because unlike Chantix, it's cheap. I hate to sound conspiratorial, but if there isn't any money in it, no one is going to pay to advertise it. And it is just so counter to what we think we should do..."oh you have an alcohol problem, take this and in an hour pour yourself a drink." But it only works if you drink. But from what I have read, God help you if you use it for a while and then quit. You will relapse much harder and faster than when you began because the brain increases the number of receptors to make up for the blocking mechanism of Nalterxone. That's the trade off.

Many of us are familiar with the real danger of alcohol addiction following surgery. Why this is the case is matter of debate. Reasons suggested are: Transference of food for self soothing, to alcohol Change in stomach structure which seems to change absorption depending on the form of WLS In another discussion board someone suggested the Sinclair Method as an alternative to AA. This had me really intrigued. My sister and several friends are in recovery and help other alcoholics. Dr. Sinclair did his work in Finland where he showed that 70%+ of problem drinkers were able to stop or greatly reduce their alcohol consumption by taking Naltrexone one hour before drinking. This drug was initially used to treat addiction to heroin. It blocks the release of endorphin's taking away the high, which lead to people being able to quit. (See this summary from a neutral source: http://www.centersite.net/poc/view_doc.php?type=doc&id=11132&cn=14). What has me intrigued is the language we naturally use in our discussion of addictions be it food or alcohol..."Relationship." Many of us used to think of food as "our friend." And I know people who use the same word to describe their past relationship with drugs and alcohol. But we use the the term "friendship" in the past tense because when you are in the grip of addiction you don't realize the relationship. You just know panic if you thought it was going away. I think this is a point of reference most of us can understand when we look back, but we couldn't see it before surgery. Now I'm going to go from what I know, to speculation, and I'm hoping someone may be able to point me in the right direction. I think the transference starts because some WLS people who start drinking start feeling the same soothing they used to get from food from alcohol. The gaba receptors receive endorphin's which gives a warm feeling akin to sex or a close relationship. It's artificial, but to the brain it feels the same. The problem is with alcohol it takes more and more to get that feeling we all naturally want. For those of you who are familiar with Bill W and the AA model, this is what they refer to the disease of alcoholism. At the time of AA's founding there were no MRI or PET scans to show how the brain reacts to certain chemicals, but now we can see exactly what parts of the brain react. And from what I've seen as a lay person is the you can give someone a drink or an orgasm and the same gaba receptor parts are going to light up. (This is not to say these are equivalent, just in that section of the brain). The nation of India's Health Department recently suggested that Neltrexone be given to people before they have an alcohol problem which is interesting. Alcoholism is so bad there that they think this inexpensive drug might prevent people from becoming alcoholics. This is where I think there is an intriguing question, "Can we prevent WLS patients from developing a problem with alcohol by giving them Neltrexone if they decide they want to drink after the requisite few months post surgery? Now I'm sure there are those who will say "well you shouldn't drink anyway." Yes and teens shouldn't have sex before marriage, bla bla bla. I don't care. People will drink and are free to do so if they are over 21 in the US. What I'm thinking about is harm reduction and alcoholism prevention. Alcoholism is a real and expensive problem, and if it can be prevented, it is worth it. So if anyone knows about this or any research in this area please post. If anyone has fears that they have or are becoming alcohol dependent, but are scared to think about stopping drinking, Google The Sinclair Method. This isn't new. Neltrexone has been approved by the FDA for alcohol treatment since 1994. The science backing it up is solid. You just have not heard of it because most of the people who do treatment are abstinence only and they have a strong bias in that direction. Neltrexone is not a licence to drink, but may be one of the best tools to stop someone from hitting rock bottom helping them get control and I think a possible preventive medication but the idea of it as preventative is speculation on my part. I know this is kind of deep, but we have people here with a great deal of education and experience and I'm curious.

My dad could not be anymore against the idea of WLS - and I haven't even told him yet! I was supposed to have surgery five years ago. I was nineteen, in college, financially dependent on my parents, on my dad's health insurance (through his own business, so he was footing the bill for all things medical related). I had talked to my mom about WLS, and she was 110% on board, but I was much, much closer with my mom then my dad. We decided, knowing my dad and how he is, that we wait until all the test were done, insurance approved surgery, and we had a date, before we were to tell my dad. And that blew up in my face. My dad flew off the handle. He demanded to meet with the surgeon, and I humored him, thinking it would help things. It didn't - my dad threatened the surgeon, and 48 hours before surgery, my dad pulled me from the health insurance. My dad is a recovering addict. He struggled with narcotics and alcohol for most of my life. He is currently eight years clean and sober. My mom passed away almost four years ago, so her support is no longer there. I am twenty four now, I do not live at home, have my own insurance through my job, and am financially independent from my dad. I have gained almost 40 pounds since I was supposed to do this five years ago, and that's disheartening, especially since I have a friend who did it a month before I should have, and her progress is incredible! Despite being an adult, and despite having the support of everyone else around me, I know my dad will freak out with the news that this is something I'm planning on doing again. And, despite everything, he's still my dad and I will tell him. It's a struggle though, and something that stresses me out to no end. I'm sorry your dad doesn't seem to be in your corner, but he does seem to be coming from a place of concern (even if his scare tactics are insensitive). We need to do this for us, not for our dads. We have researched, planned, and thought about the decision we are making, and it is not for them. I wish you peace with your decision, and that your dad can find peace with it also.

Throwing up when you get too drunk is a protective measure our body takes to prevent alcohol poisoning. Just keep it in mind that you cannot even make yourself vomit now. I have zero judgment about drinking, but safety requires that you keep yourself from a point of danger even more so now that you are banded. Sent from my iPhone using the BariatricPal App

It won't mess up your band if you drink alcohol. What messes up your band is throwing up. Trust me, if you eat something you shouldn't or if you get sick, you will throw up. BE CAREFUL WITH THROWING UP! I had the band and am now going to the sleeve because the band was causing problems for me. Throwing up is not normal and if you do start doing it and it lasts, you need to go to the doctor and have it checked. I'm sure you know this but alcohol will put weight on you faster than anything. Be careful.