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Yes, you are right, its not just an alcohol addition that can develop, any addiction can develop. Thankfully the only addiction I've ever had is food and I sure don't want another one! Ever! Thank you for the comment because this is something I will be talking to my therapist about, even though the psych evaluation may address this.

On the 10th of July I will be 1 month post op, and I feel great, I had BBQ for the first time yesterday, steak, shrimp, sausage, the cool part is I ate 2 bites of the sausage, 2 of the 3 med Shrimp, and 3 oz if the steak, and I was full!!!!!!!, this is an awesome change for me and I utilize the sleeve with what I've learned, a typical Sunday breakfast would have been 2 eggs, 6 pieces of bacon and 8 tortillas, today it was 1 egg, half a sausage, and 1 slice of 7 grain bread, and I left 1/4 piece of the bread and 1/2 a sausage, and I always remove the plate and yell I'm done just to re-affirm it to myself, I actually find it harder with drinks, I'm craving things like Energy drinks, my coffee, and yesterday I wanted a beer so bad( I always limited myself to 1 or 2 after college), I'm still researching the alcohol thing, too many varying opinions, even a couple of theories that some wine is good for you after gastric! We will see

My general rule of thumb these days is this: just because you can do something (according to your surgeon) doesn't mean you should. Though more often than not I think surgeons go way over the top alarmist about food, caffeine, alcohol, etc. For me, at one month post op I was not eating much carbs - only cooked veggies and some fruit. I am more than 2 months out now and I can tolerate protein-infused oatmeal okay but rice, Pasta and bread feel like bombs going off in my stomach. I avoid as much as possible.

The rules from my nutritionist are that any non carbonated, non caffeinated, non alcoholic and non caloric beverage counts toward your total. That basically leaves decaffeinated coffee and tea, herbal tea, Crystal Light (or equivalent), and Water.

Hello! I am new to this site, I just have to say first off.. I love your attitude and outlook on this all "the professor" I will be having my surgery for my lap band on April 7th!!! I am equally terrified and excited! I have struggled for so long and am ready to take the plunge. What is a realistic goal for weight loss?? I am 5'6 24 y/o and 234 lbs and at my heaviest. My lightest adult weight has been 149 and I miss being that size terribly. Just years of bad habits and depression helped pack the weight on. Also what do you choose to drink when you do have an alcoholic beverage? How long after surgery were u able to have a drink? I would just hate to give up my social life completely.

to my H, a snack ALWAYS consists of carbs! or alcohol. or both.

I have two that I don't think have been mentioned yet. When others try to pressure me into drinking alcohol. I am 9 months post op and could have a drink if I wanted to but honestly I don't really enjoy the taste of wine or beer and I am cheap. Which brings me to the next pet peeve of how much food I throw away because I can't eat it fast enough. This could range between veggies and fruit I didn't eat quick enough to left overs because left overs are usually at least 2/3 more meals. Just a few pet peeves Love the thread. ~LA

The pain for upwards of month after, not being able to tolerate food or foods that I enjoy, diarrhea, vomiting, heartburn, no alcohol for 6 months to a year, no nsaids, potential gallstones, hernia , hair loss to name a few.

"Addiction is a state characterized by compulsive engagement in rewarding stimuli, despite adverse consequences. An addiction can be physical (nicotine, alcohol, sugar, cocaine) or behavioral (gambling, shopping, sex, exercise) Addiction - there is a psychological/physical component; the person is unable to control the aspects of the addiction without help because of the mental or physical conditions involved. Habit - it is done by choice. The person with the habit can choose to stop, and will subsequently stop successfully if they want to. The psychological/physical component is not an issue as it is with an addiction." So Did we eat (and in my case drink) the way we did preop because we were addicted or were they bad habits we didn't want to stop. the argument could be made that the physical limitations of the sleeve was the "help" I needed to control my food addiction. And Despite its potential for physical addiction, for me, I gotta throw alcohol into the habit category. I stopped by choice because the sleeve didn't really restrict that. And I have no problem having just 1 drink....it doesn't make me want more. But It's all very "grey area".

Wow! So let me get this straight...lifestyle and diet modification is a MUST in order to experience long term weight loss? You really won't maintain long term if you continue to eat the things that "brang" ya to the Obesity Ball the first go-round? I'm actually pretty stoked to see this study. Thanks for posting it. I've believed that we had to change, and change fast and permanently since the year leading up to my surgery, and despite no matter how kind and gentle I shape my responses about this, I'm constantly slammed by "people who know better." People who want their proverbial cake and eat it too...(I'm not talking about the occasional "cheat" meal. I'm talking about people who think this is magic bean surgery that does all the heavy lifting for life and requires no effort or help from them. Who deny responsibility for their own behaviors re: food/alcohol/drugs/etc). This is most especially true on FB...not quite so much here in BP online community. Thanks for posting this. I'm def. gonna save it!

Oh, heck, you all are talking to me about myself! I love food. I love cooking, food trivia, the science of thermo-dynamics of how food cooks....I can tell you about history of the fork and the etymology of cooking terms. I’m a huge nerd too. <O:p I have nearly exclusively worked in kitchens since I was 16 and still work in a kitchen. (I'm on my way to an MBA to get me away from where food is served, but I'll stay working in this industry...because 20 years of experience is hard to walk away from.) It’s like an alcoholic working in a bar. Yes, it is. <O:p But yes, I see me as person with a chronic illness, which can be labeled morbid obesity or food addiction. I see myself as someone who is managing the illness really well at this point, but I never expect for it to go away completely. I will always have to monitor food in my life differently than normal people. It's just what I've got to do. <O:p I'm grateful for the band it helps fight the weight and symptoms of my disease, but this battle will be on going and ever changing. But I won’t let it determine the quality of my life anymore which is an amazing change in my world view. <O:p</O:p

for me I believe that my overeating is a lot like alcoholism...once an overeater...always an overeater. I'm scared to think what would happen if I had to have my band removed. I feel greatful that I got the band when I did because I was beginning to eat myself to death and I didn't care...(thats changed) I would love to think that I would be able to control myself if the band had to come out but lets face facts for me...if I was able to "control" it...then I would have stopped at 1 piece of pizza instead of the entire thing!

Hello Cleo, I know what you mean about being hungry on the Pre-op diet. It was one of the hardest things I've ever done but it really prepared my for my Post-0p but my pre-op was better than yours I think I could have the following: Breakfast-a slimfast shake morning snack-small piece of fruit lunch-slimfast shake afternoon snack- small piece of fruit dinner-3oz of chicken breat or fish (lean meat) a baked potato or 6 crackers or two slices of bread, a veggie late night snack- small piece of fruit Now veggies were unlimited and could be eaten at any time except for (corn,mashed potatoes,beans and peas) drinks non-caloric beverages, no alcohol coffee,tea,crystal light, sugar free kool-aid and Water I hope that this is helpful. I lost a total of 12 pounds. Tell me about the carnation drinks Does it have high Protein? What are the flavors? Do they taste good?

Interesting off topic discussion.....So what defines an addiction? I, too, ate whatever I wanted in large quantities my entire life. No problem in HS or my 20's. But then I turned 30 and gained 50 pounds. Then I turned 40 and gained another 50 pounds. I could usually lose 20-40 but then gain it back plus some. And yes, I ate to celebrate, I ate when I was sad, I ate when I was bored. And my brain NEVER said, "that's enough, you're full now". I overate every time I ate. Let's talk about alcohol....Starting in college, I drank to celebrate, I drank when I was depressed, I drank when I was stressed, I drank when I was bored. Nearly every social and recreational event involved alcohol. I drank every single day for a year and a half after my brother died. By every definition out there, that made me an alcoholic. And now for smoking....I'd say I was more of a "social" smoker because I mostly only smoked when out with friends when we were drinking. Occasionally I'd smoke after a stressful day at work or on my way to a board meeting. Probably not more than 1-2 packs/month depending on my social calendar. Then I decided to have WLS and to get healthy. I stopped smoking cold turkey 3 months before surgery and haven't touch a cig since. I quit drinking the day I started my 2 week preop diet, followed my pre and postop diets to a tee and had no cravings for all the bad stuff I used to eat. I no longer drink or eat when I'm stressed or depressed. I don't use food or alcohol to celebrate or make myself feel "better" when I'm down. I have an alcoholic drink maybe 2-3 times a month, (except when I went on vacation) and I never drink after a bad day at work. I stick with a food plan that works for me and have no problem getting "back on the wagon" after eating off plan while on vacation or over the holidays. It's been a little over a year and I did all of this without the help of a nut, a counselor, a therapist, or rehab. I simply decided to do it and I did. So whose to say if I had a food or alcohol addiction.....maybe I just liked the taste of food and liked to be buzzed. Seems to me it would have been harder to stop if it was truly an addiction. Or maybe I'm just in denial ????

Hi Guys! How's everyone doing? I'm on day 9 post op and feeling great! My port site is still pretty sore though...is this normal? I'm curious to know how you guys are doing mentally. I saw a group of friends yesterday and they all commented on how happy and energetic I seemed. I didn't even realize that I was feeling pretty damn good! I get up early now, never tired and have loads of energy. I'm even thinking clearer. Do any of you notice a change like this? I'm sure it has alot to do with not having fast food or pizza in almost 2 weeks lol but I didn't think it would hit me this quickly. I'm likin this! Another question...with all this warm weather rolling in I could use a cocktail! I'm curious if any of you that have been banded already have had any alcohol yet. It seems a bit early. I am tempted to have a glass of wine but I think I should wait till I'm on solid foods. Any thoughts?

I know the cycle....drink, eat, drink, eat. That's one reason why I ballooned up. Been there, done that. Unfortunately I would venture to guess that you may cut back initially, but will probably ease back up to the current amounts before too long as your body adjusts and old habits set in. The band will not stop you from drinking or drinking heavily because being liquid, it's just gonna roll down your throat. By "pickling" I don't mean that you are soused 24/7. Your body has adjusted to the amounts you give it and compensated to some extent. However, your regular blood alcohol level when you think you are cold sober is probably borderline or more. After a period of chronic alcohol consumption your blood is going to maintain a permanently elevated level of alcohol all the time as long as you keep "feeding it". Just be aware that you are working with a lot LESS territory to inebriate after you lose weight (though I would also think you probably will not lose much weight based on habits). However, because you will be able to eat less, you probably are not going to be able to fend off the hangovers as effectively anymore.

My step mother got drunk the end of May, she jumped out of her window. Her window was on the 30th floor of an apartment building. She did what she wanted to do. She enjoyed her alcohol and she went flying, flying like a butterfly out her window. She didn't care about anyone else but herself. Oh yes she enjoyed her alcohol and I know that she enjoyed her flight! She only cared about her alcohol not her daughter that she would leave devestated behind, or her friends and other family members. Just like you she did what she wanted to do and she enjoyed it. So go ahead and have the band and drink as much as you want. I've gotten drunk a few times in the past to years, and I've enjoyed it. I'm more sensitive now about alcolhol because I see how it hurts others so much. I am also more sensitive how weight effects others. So you need to make this desision for yourself. I am sure you are already affecting other peoples lives by your weight and your drinking. You are aviously going to do just what you want to do. Just like my step mother did what she wanted to do. The only thing that I can ask is that you think about how you are affecting other people who care about you. It does effect them even if you think it doesn't

CARTAGENA, I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND WHERE YOU ARE COMING FROM AND KACEE I TOTALLY AGREE WITH WHAT YOU ARE SAYING. I TOO ENJOY ALCOHOL BUT DON,T DRINK EVERY DAY. NOR DO I DRINK SPIRITS I LIKE LAGER I HAVE GONE WITHOUT ALCOHOL FOR OVER A YEAR ON A PREVIOUS DIET AND WASN,T BOTHERED BUT I HAVE AN ADDICTIVE PERSONALITY AND WHEN I DO SOMETHING I DO IT ALL OR NOTHING. WHICH WAS GREAT WHEN I WAS SERIOUSLY DIETING BUT HELL WHEN I STOPPED...LOL I TOO WOULD LOVE TO GET A NICE BUZZ OFF JUST A COUPLE OF DRINKS HENCE KEEPING THE CALORIES LOW AND STILL FEELING NORMAL BUT THOUGH SOME PEOPLE SAY THIS IS TRUE WITH THE BAND MY PROBLEM IS I NEVER STOP AT A COUPLE OF DRINKS!!! I WOULD HOWERVER LISTEN TO KACEE IF I WERE YOU AS DRINKING SUCH HIGH PER CENT ALCOHOL AND SO MUCH IS GONNA CATCH UP WITH YOU I KNOW MY AUNT DIED AN ALCOHOLIC AND I WOULDN,T WISH IT ON ANYONE. SO I HOPE THAT MAYBE WE WILL GET A BUZZ OFF A SMALL AMOUNT OF ALCOHOL CO,S IT,S GOTTA BE BETTER ALL ROUND TO HAVE EVERYTHING IN MODERATION RIGHT? TAKE CARE:)

I think you may be off on what calories you will be maintaining once at desired weight, unless you are going to be VERY active. 3000 is quite a few calories, much more than necessary. That makes the 400 useless calories from alcohol a larger part of your daily intake. You are fortunate to be able to have this surgery in SA, because not too many dr's here would do it until you have a psych eval where the psychologist would have a field day figuring this out..

I am a "former" heavy drinker myself (by the "standards" I fall into that category, up until 2 years ago I drank 1 to 1.5 bottles of wine a night, 24/7/365) You don't want to hear what I am thinking, and I didn't want to hear it. And no, I didn't go to AA. I couldn't abide all the "rah rah" stuff. I just stopped myself. I still can tend to overdo when I drink. I try not to drink except when I am out to eat I will have 2-3 glasses of wine (and I don't drive), so unless I am on vacation that's fairly rare. You are in your 30's and young, but this is going to catch up with you if it has not already, and that is a stone hard fact, no ifs, ands or buts. I did not notice that alcohol affected me any more after the band than before. I can still pack it away....if I wanted to. If you are heavily overweight there is the possibility that is why you are able to consume so much straight alcohol in a sitting and still remain on your feet (though I tend to think you are probably in a fair state pickling 24 hours a day based on the sheer alcohol percentage in your body.) My concern, other than the obvious, would be that if you lose a large amount of body mass and try to consume as you have been you may be facing alcohol poisoning and potential death. Well, anyway...based on your past lifestyle and intent to continue I would highly recommend: make sure you have good backup in the bar whenever you are there, draw up a good will if you haven't already and don't make any long range plans. Sorry I can't be more positive.

Hi Suzanne, Im sure u will do well. I have big problem with chicken too. But it I cut them to pea size, I find it easier to go down. I tend to eat more cottage mince pie, lasagne and fish pie. It goes down easier. Try them. U r right, the last 1 stone is the hardest. But Im not worried too much cos Im not putting them on. I know I can go down the last stone if I cut down my desert and alcohol drink, but Im enjoying size 14/16 for a while and no hurry to go down to size 14 and I definately do not want to go down size 12 as my boobs will dissappear.

I got banded on 9 December 2005, so in the Christmas season. I did wait until Christmas Eve to have a drink, and I took it very easy, since it was champagne! I had one or two on Christmas day and perhaps another one or two on New Years Eve. I'm not a heavy drinker, but I do drink moderate amounts of white wine, sometimes red, three or four times a week - just a glass with dinner usually. Its actually good for you. For the most part I'm waaaaay past needing alcohol to loosen up or actually wanting to get drunk at the ripe old age of 39, but I do love good wine. I dont get tipsy any quicker, but I dont really drink a lot either, I do notice though that my intake is curbed by my band because anymore than a glass or two and it starts to really burn my stomach, gives me heartburn. And for ages I drank a sip or two of wine whilst eating but now it really burns to do that too, although I'm fine to drink the wine slowly after my dinner - yes, I know you shouldnt drink so soon but I've never taken any notice of that rule, it doesnt seem to make a difference to me.

Amen, Kacee. I'm so happy to hear this. Before I heard "NO alcohol with the band!Ever!" .....And frankly...I'm a bit of a wine snot/slut. The idea of not being able to wind down with a nice glass of Pinot Noir or Reisling makes me want to weep.

I used to be a 'gourmet' beer drinker...stouts, dark ales, etc. My surgeon/nutritionists strongly recommend that I avoid beer (or any carbonated or alcoholic beverage) due to the empty calories adding up fast and the carbonation possibly stretching the pouch. They've shown that bypass patients are more sensitive to the effects of alcohol, because of the 're-routing' of the small intestine and because they actually have a much smaller stomach post-surgery. Maybe for banders it would be because of the lower body mass once you've lost weight...the same amount of alcohol would produce a higher level in the bloodstream?? (just guessing) I'm guessing that beer for me will be an extremely occasional thing...maybe when I get to goal I'll have some more often. Even in the past, I drank beer for the rich flavor...rarely had more than two in an evening, and that was usually once or twice a week. I'm paranoid about drinking and driving, so if I'm at a picnic or evening function, I never drink. My dad was an alcoholic and drove drunk all the time.

So I'm going to just address the naked king in his new clothes standing in the middle of the room. IMHO, you are both maintaining. You are NOT stalled for 4 months. You are eating the amount of calories along with your surgery that allows you to maintain. But beware. You are both approaching the end of the honeymoon period within the next year or 14 months ish. Then those same calories you're taking in right now, will quite likely cause you to start creeping up on the scale. It's impossible to help you. You're not giving us enough information. I could come to you and ask the same question. But because I track every bite of food, good and bad, I can present samples of my day, I can present an excel spreadsheet showing the relationship of macros in a month to average weight loss. I have a LOT of data to look at and tweak. You don't have any of that, even a food log. How can you possibly know what it takes to lose weight? You've no earthly idea. This is not magic bean surgery. It's WL surgery. It's SCIENCE!!!!! You HAVE to count sh*t. The End. And any RD who says you don't has a butt-load of peeps keeping her in job security who never forking make goal!!!! I read yesterday that this surgery is 40% surgery and 60% you. I don't know if that's the exact ratio, but the reality is, weekly cheat days are just that...weekly events that derail your progress. They can do nothing but create a GHDWL situation (Ground Hog Day Weight Loss=where you gain and lose the same 2lbs over and over and over again until you want to chew your own leg off to see a drop on the scale). Go back to basics. For me, and from a lot of vets, the ideal losing phase is a caloric intake average of about 600-900 cals per day. Maintenance is personal--anywhere from 1000+ depending on so many variables. Go back to no eating or drinking 30-30 Water >64oz per day Vitamins every damn day Exercise (walk) every damn day--don't go cray with working out right now Weigh and measure everything (60-80g protein for the day; <30g of carbs daily; around 30g fat for the day; <10g naturally occurring sugars for the day) Log EVERY bite that goes down your piehole If you're drinking alcohol--stop that sh*t right now!!!! Eat 3 meals a day + 1 snack (no grazing, no crap foods, no slider foods) Eat your meals in a window of 15-30 minutes Protein (dense) first 3oz per meal Veggies next Healthy Fats next If any room leftover then low glycemic fruit/berries (but if you have more room, fill up on fibrous veggies) Accept that you are gonna feel like jack sh*t for about 2 weeks. You're eating carby crap and sugar. What do you really expect. Sadly it WILL be fuc*ing hard! You don't have the excitement of the looming surgery, you've got diet boredom, you've lost faith in your tool, and you're being self-indulgent and going back to bad habits. It's gonna hurt and you WILL have to force yourself to get over that hump. Get mad! Do it! Suffer. And do it. In 4 days it will get easier and each day after. If you do those things, I can ALMOST guarantee you will both start losing again. And remember, you can NEVER out-exercise a bad diet. Oh and get your butts to the counselor (someone who specializes in bariatrics). P.S. And I "get" that you want to have a normal relationship with food. I "get" that you want to eat intuitively like all the other skinny girls in the world. But what you don't realize is that many (maybe most) of those skinny girls are secretely limiting calories, fats, sugars, foods or worse, purging, or anna stuff to "effortlessly" look like they are naturally skinny girls. If we were capable of having normal relationships with food, we would have never made it to the obesity ball in the first place. If we didn't have seriously, and I mean SERIOUSLY broken metabolisms, we would never have become MO. Once you are MO, the "normal" rules of skinnydom no longer apply. You can not take the set of rules for naturally skinny people and apply them to the subset of MO and formerly MO people. You just can't. It's like trying to feed a lion a peanut, or trying to feed an elephant a dead gazelle. It's apples and oranges. DUE to our disease, we will ALWAYS have to be more vigilant, try harder, do more, and live differently if we EVER want to maintain our weight loss.)