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Keto may really help you kick the sugar. When I eat keto or close to keto, I do not have cravings. High fat really works well for me. High protein sometimes leaves me feeling more hunger. So, for example, if I don't eat enough fats and eat chicken (high protein but lean) for a couple days, I get hungry or cravings. Fats mainly come from avocado, cream and nuts. Sometimes butter.

There are several variations of what a surgeon may require you to do pre surgery. I had an easier road as I was on keto for two weeks (I did almost three because of when I saw my dietician). Some do two weeks of nothing but shakes. Others, two weeks of shakes for two meals & one of protein & vegetables/salad. Some do a day or two only. I did discover my surgeon recommends different diets for different patients based on their weight loss/gain history, starting weight, health status, etc. The purpose is to shrink your liver which is likely fatty & enlarged therefore clearing some of the abdominal field so they can better see what they’re doing during surgery. Some use it to see if you can manage a restricted diet before surgery because of the restrictive diet to support your healing after surgery. But I do agree. Wait until your next appointment before buying anything for your pre & post surgery diets.

Check out this site https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/keto/recipes

@Proud2BeMe Nice to see you posting again! I'm glad you worked out your alcohol issues, we were worried. I think that those of us that were super morbidly obese and lose to normal or close to normal size really face special issues. Most of the people that post here now are not and have not been super morbidly obese They start in the 200s if that. So their opinions to me don't carry that much weight (ha!) There are very few people that are in the situation that people like you and I are in. People can't and don't understand. It is a really huge mental trip, and most people will never experience it. I would normally say seek counseling but I am going to be honest, it isn't going to be very useful. Not many of them are going to have experience with what you are going through. You have to really just work through your feelings and emotions in your own way on your own path. I would rather see you abusing carbs than alcohol, but the fact you feel the need to go overboard on anything is an issue. I think time to adjust to yourself is the best and only realistic solution. I eat keto/low carb (less than 25G per day) because it keeps me upbeat and my moods balanced. I enjoy it and it is healthy. You should eat in a manner that makes you feel good and is healthy for you. You probably just lost weight because you upped your calories, not the carbs. So just eat more protein. I'm going to PM you.

Which cost $200 - the Robards or another one? Are the $200 ones those you were advised to use by your surgeon or medical team? Usually we say follow your surgeon’s & medical team’s plan because it’s in place to best support you lose weight & make the surgery easier & safer. There likely is a specific reason your surgeon recommended the shakes they did. But if the expense is a concern (& $200 does seem excessive - does your insurance cover it?) I’d speak to your surgeon & ask for alternatives. My surgeon puts different patients on different pre surgery plans. For example he sent me to a dietician & did keto for the two weeks. He sent my friend (who had more to lose & pre existing health issues which I didn’t) to the hospital’s weight loss clinic to do their shake plan.

I’ve made the fathead pizza easily about 20 times in the last couple of years while I was on keto. Can honestly say this tastes even better than original bread crust and it’s extremely filling. Highly recommend. Haven’t tried it yet after WLS, will wait until at least 6 months to make it again because it is higher in fat.

I just got my date; Tuesday, January 3rd. Heck of a way to start the year. I'm on day 2 of the keto diet (protein liquids and one low carb, low glycemic meal daily for a week, then all liquids for a week)/ The timing sucks because of all the Christmas food. I' just tell people I have a stomach bug and that's why I'm not eating. I'm sure I'll be ready to cry come in the next few days when I want to eat and cannot, but I am keeping my focus on a healthier future with no diabetes, no sleep apnea, no high cholesterol, no gastritis, less joint pain, etc!!! Prayers and good vibes for all of us!

Mikeyy. They put me on a similar diet to atkins or keto. Eat as much meat and non starch veggies as I want. I cannot have any sugar fruit and any carbs outside the veggies. I cannot have dairy either

My surgeon did the very same with me. Our NUT is in house and works as part of the team but I do have a Dr in the team besides my surgeon. My Dr is more strict with my diet while my NUT is a bit more easy-going. At this point (close to 3 months post op now) my NUT has always answered me by saying to not worry about calories right now. They just want me to get my proteins met first and foremost and then add anything I can else that is on the list (it does include potatoes, beans, fruits, keto ice-cream, etc) and she says to add some potato if it's easier to eat with chicken to get down. However, I read about a lot of different protein level preferences (always the same lowest but some require much, much higher) and even vitamin differences. Just follow what your Dr says. A lot also can depend on specific health problems, ages, prior history, etc.

The vyvanse seems to be going well for me along with the Wellbutrin so far its helping , I had to approach my Dr with something I had printed off the vyvanse site because about it being approved for BED other wise she would have never given me the med as you do have to use caution . I was running like crazy and it helped with getting weight off but only increased my appetite even more. I have been doing a lot of research into Keto way of eating and its working for me and when you get into it a lot of your carb cravings go away because you are getting your energy from fat not carbs. I don't go crazy with the exercise I have been moderate (eg walking) and the weight has been coming off.

Has anyone used them after being sleeved? I’m 6 months post op and have hit a wall

I did Atkins induction prior to surgery as per my surgeons instructions (2 weeks - with Clear Liquids the day before surgery) lost 14 lbs and surgeon said my liver was teeeny-tiny, which made me very happy. I was terrified that there would be issues with my big, fat liver lol - but the very low carb is very fast at reducing it. Atkins 72 is usually the most extreme, but most effective way to go. This is from a low-carb msg board with info from the original Atkins diet - Atkins 1972 NOTE* This is from the book, Bantam edition / September 1972 paperback... Not sixty grams of carbohydrate on this diet but zero grams Here’s how this diet is significantly different. During the first week on this diet, you cut your intake of carbohydrates down to what is biologically zero. This creates a unique chemical situation in the body, the one favorable to the fastest possible burning of your body’s stored fat. Ketones are excreted, and hunger disappears. You see, the first fuel your body burns for energy comes from the carbohydrates you eat and drink. If any carbohydrate is available, your body burns this rather than stored fat-and maintains its old metabolic pathways. But carbohydrates, as such, are not stored in the body beyond forty-eight hours. So when no carbohydrate is taken in, your body must draw upon the major reserve source of fuel-the stored fat. It is forced to take a different metabolic pathway. In this process your body converts from being a carbohydrate-burning engine. This is The Diet Revolution: the new chemical situation in which ketones are being thrown off-and so are those unwanted pounds, all without hunger. A gradual addition of carbohydrate to keep your body burning it’s fat as fuel. We must maintain this chemical situation if you’re to continue to lose without hunger. And if we add carbohydrate very gradually in tiny amounts-we can do just this… keep your body converted into a fat-burning engine. So that is just what we do. The second week you might add a few grams of carbohydrate to your diet. Every week thereafter a little more carbohydrate (around five grams) may be returned to the diet. The Rules of Original Atkins The Diet Revolution Rules (Level One) 1. Don’t count calories (so why are so many counting them?) 2. Eat as much of the allowed foods as you need to avoid hunger.(see, no limit) 3. Don’t eat when you are not hungry. 4. Don’t feel you must finish everything on your plate just because it is there. 5. Drink as much Water or calorie free beverages as thirst requires. Don’t restrict fluids… but it is not necessary to force them either.(It doesn't say anything about 1/2 your body weight in water) 6. Frequent small meals are preferable. 7. If weakness results from rapid weight loss, you may need salt. 8. Everyday take a high-strength Multivitamin pill. 9. Read the labels on “low-calorie” drinks, syrups, Desserts,. Only those with no carbohydrate content are allowed. The First Life-Changing Week, eat nothing that is not on the list. Meat: Steaks, Corned beef, Lamb chops, tongue, Hamburgers, Bacon, Any kind of meat in any quantity—except meat with fillers such as sausage, hot dogs, meatballs, most packaged “cold cuts” Fowl: Duckling, Turkey, chicken, Anything with wings, No stuffing Desserts: Gelatin with artificial sweeteners (e.g., D-Zerta ) Condiments: Salt, pepper, mustard, horseradish, vinegar, vanilla, and other extracts; artificial sweeteners; any dry powdered spice that contains no sugar Drinks: Water, Mineral water, Vichy, Club soda; Beef or Chicken broth, bouillon; sugar free diet soda; coffee*, tea, decaffeinated coffee ---------*Special note on caffeine and Diet Cola. Because most heavy people have some hypoglycemia, coffee, which contains caffeine, should be limited to six servings a day (cups). If you know you have low blood sugar, better limit it to three. Fish: All fish, including canned salmon, tuna; any kind of seafood, including oil-packed and smoked, except oysters, clams, muscles, scallops, and pickled fish Eggs: Boiled, fried, scrambled, poached, omelet – any style and without limitations(another NO LIMIT) Salads: Two small green salads a day (each less than one cupful, loosely packed) made only of leafy greens, celery, or cucumbers and radishes. Dressings with vinegar, oil, salt, dry spices, herbs, grated cheese, or anchovies. Or else a sour pickle in place of a salad. Plus… green olives. Butter & Mayonnaise Fats: Butter, margarine (head New Diet Revolution & eat no margarine with trans fatty acids), oils, shortening (not such a great idea), lard & mayonnaise (fats have no carbohydrates). Juice: juice of one lemon or lime Cheese: Four ounces a day of any hard aged cheese. No cream cheese or cheese spreads. Heavy Cream: Four teaspoons a day. (Cream has less carbohydrate than milk – so don’t use milk) Diet Revolution Salad Material: Celery, Chicory, Chinese Cabbage, Chives, Cucumber, Endive, Escarole, Fennel, lettuce, Olives (Green or Black), Onions, Pickles (Sour or Dill), Parsley, Peppers, Radishes, Scallions, watercress. What Happens After The First Week’s Diet. Most diets are fixed formulas and are therefore short-termed and self-limiting. This diet is fixed only for a week. After that – because it must be a lifetime diet, it is, as variable as are individual tastes. I’ve labeled the additions of carbohydrate that follow’ second level’, ‘third level’, ‘fourth level’, ‘fifth level’, but in fact the additions are interchangeable and flexible. You can make any of these additions any week that you choose. I am so committed to making this a livable lifetime diet that I am letting you select your own variations, within the rules set up by your biological rulebook. Put back what you’ve missed the most: The idea is simply to gradually return to your diet first what you missed most. Custom-tailor the diet to suit your carbohydrate additions to suit your lifestyle. All that matters is that you add back to your diet a little carbohydrate at a time, and that you stop adding carbohydrate when you reach your CCL. How to know when to put back a little carbohydrate: Ask yourself: Are the keto-stix still turning purple? Am I still un-hungry? Have I stopped eating at night? Do I have more energy? Am I still losing weight or inches nicely? Remember, your tape measure is a lot better friend than your scale, not only more accurate, but better able to report on the actual fat (not just temporary water) losses this diet achieves. The Second Level: Cheesecake for dessert? At each level, remember you add approximately five to eight grams of carbohydrate daily for a week and analyze the results. Most people agree the best way to handle the second level is to add cottage cheese… The Diet Revolution Vegetables (not for level one): All of the above plus; Asparagus, Avocado, Bamboo Shoots, Bean Sprouts, Beet Greens, Broccoli, Brussels Sprouts, Cabbage, Cauliflower, Chard, Chinese Cabbage, eggplant, Kale, Kohlrabi, Mushrooms, Okra, Onions, Peppers, Pumpkins, Rhubarb, Sauerkraut, Snow Pea Pods, Spinach, String Beans, Summer Squash, Tomatoes, Turnips, Water Chestnuts, Wax Beans, Zucchini Squash Sample menu, level one: Breakfast: Scrambled eggs with spicy ham, Diet revolution roll and butter, Bouillon, coffee, or tea Lunch: Cold cuts sandwich on Diet revolution Roll w/ mayo or mustard, 1 cup of salad (loosely packed), oil & vinegar, or a dressing from the recipe list, Raspberry gelatin, Diet soda, coffee, or tea Dinner: Chicken Soup with Matzoh Balls, Your favorite cut of steak, Caesar salad with Caesar Salad dressing, Gelatin, diet soda, coffee or tea Snack: baken-ets, stuffed celery, diet soda. Sample menu, level two: Breakfast: Lox and stuffed onion omelet, caraway Diet revolution Roll with cream cheese, Bouillon, coffee, or tea Lunch: Avocado stuffed with crabmeat, Tossed green salad with dressing from recipe list, diet soda, coffee, or tea Dinner: Mixed grill with garlic Butter Sauce or Béarnaise Sauce, Tossed salad with French Dressing, Gelatin Parfait with whipped cream, diet soda, coffee, or tea Snack: Assorted smoked fish, Hard cheese, Diet soda Ok, there it is 'By The Book'

Oh no. I wonder what's causing the nausea and headaches. You're getting two protein drinks, two lean proteins/meats, and non-starchy veggies in each day? Sounds like a lot of substance for one day. Hope it gets better for you. One more week to go. Then the weeks after surgery of course. Maybe TMI, but no BM the past few days. I'm guessing that's because I'm eating less, maybe. I'm surprised that I'm not experiencing discomfort. Taking a chewable assistance today before bed to hopefully help on the morning. If not, I will crack open the box of recommended tea that I bought for post-surgery constipation that most folks mention. Other than that I have moments of head hunger, but not as much now as I did when starting this pre-op diet process. Funny but not funny, I got a wisdom tooth pulled Friday. So, my desire to try to cheat is limited since my mouth is tender, I can only chew on one side, and I prefer soft foods. Man, this has been good practice for the first few weeks post surgery. I'm only eating soft foods and tiny pieces. I prefer protein drinks because I dont want to trigger pain. Hahhaha Also, do you have a chemical or chalky like taste in your mouth? I kind of is like the.taste you have when trying to swallow a pill but it dissolves some before you swallow. That nasty pill taste. I noticed it Sunday. Very annoying. I keep brushing and using Listerine, but it's there all day until I eat the actual food. Makes water taste disgusting when I'm drinking all day. Shakes are ok. Once I eat real food, I'm fine. But, I dont eat real food untol dinner. So all day water tastes horrible. Can't be keto breath already, right? Seems odd. Sorry for always typing a novel. Hahaha

After thinking a long time, I believe the issue is this: I came off a liquid diet, and then two weeks later I had fully reintroduced solids (which was around the time this happened). I also therefore was able to put some carbs in, so I came off ketosis. (The protein drinks I was on had ~no carbs.) Also, I've been eating probably a bit more salt than I should. From previous experience, keto makes me lose about 10 lbs of glycogen weight in the starting "whoosh." 10 lbs + solid food in various parts of digestion + some water retention from salt = 15-20 lbs depending on the water retention. So it's probable that I just haven't lost nearly as much actual fat as I think I have, which is extremely depressing, but at least there's an explanation. That said, I'm about 4 inches off both my waist and my hips, so clearly something happened. Though given my consistent weight for the past 2 weeks or so, I'm probably stalled right now. I did just start up a 3x/week strenuous weightlifting program, so hopefully that puts a dent in it. My doctor is horrible at getting back to me on any kind of schedule, so I had to attack this myself. The awful part is that 240 lbs is my normal weight pre-pandemic. All that work to return to the status quo.

Carb Smart fudge bars & KETO cherry chocolate chip

I used to love Robert Irvine’s fit crunch bars. They do have 27 grams of carbs in them but only 6 grams of sugar and 30 grams of protien. And they taste great!! But you can make Keto protien bars too so there’s that option.

Screw the insurance companies! they approve drugs that cause suicidal thoughts, seizures and death. Medicine is experimental by nature, it is always possible for different people to have different reactions. Do we know why some people are successful and some not, do we know exactly how the nerves and chemicals are affected after a VSG is performed? We don't even have long term data on 20 year VSG success yet, we are literally the guinea pigs. Although keto seems to be the way to go, there isn't even a standard post op diet that is being recommended by bariatric surgeons. Don't get me started on diabetes, obesity, autisim, BPA, high fructose corn syrup, artificial sweeteners, vaccines etc... WE ARE THE GUINEA PIGS!! End rant

I have So many goals for this month. April SW: 211.6 April Scale Goal: 12lbs to but me at 199. (Down 5lbs so far) April Non-Scale Goals: 1) Maintain a strict Vegan Keto diet ( so far so good it’s how I lost 5lbs in a week) 2) Track macros consistently 3) Weigh in once a week (addicted to the scale) 4) Take vitamins consistently (so far so good) Surgery: 8/2/18

Thats my reasoning for this too. So many medical issues. I go up and down in weight and i was down to 178 with Keto but I don't eat red meat and do not really care so much for other meats. So my weight went back up when I went off it and my dr said I did more harm than good and was just diagnosed diabetic. So that was it for me. It really isn't anyones business, you are so right.

Hey Lolo, I am jettisoning shakes (to a point)! While they are really important for getting your protein in right after surgery (when it hurts to eat anything), they are still processed foods. Most of them are made up of some combination of soy or whey protein, which is ok--but this processed protein triggers a significant insulin response. I am able to meet my protein goals with whole foods as part of my regular intake, so the shakes are no longer necessary for me. That said, I still have my shakes handy. If I am having a day where I might be missing the mark on protein--or right after a workout (if I don't have time to eat), I may have half a premier shake. However, to the extent I can avoid them, I will. I was doing this on instinct, but my surgeon actually recommended that I cut them out at my one month follow up yesterday--so, great minds must think alike. I told him what and how I have been eating and he's totally on board. Apparently, he's been eating Keto for a few years. P.S.--when I say I am jettisoning shakes, I mean the premier shakes and muscle milk stuff etc. If you're doing healthy shakes with kale, etc. in a blender, those are great. I am not having those personally at this point, but not for any particular reason. Maybe I'll go that route in the future. It's hard to do a true Keto diet after WLS. If you're doing Keto correctly, you're eating close to 1,500-2,000 calories a day with 60% or more of those calories coming from good fats (hopefully). With that many calories, you can still meat your protein goals. Also, people who are successful on Keto also mix in intermittent fasting, where they will skip breakfast and go 18-20 hours without eating and have maybe 4-6 hour window of opportunity to eat. That won't work for someone with a sleeve (at least within the first few years following surgery). We can't consume that many healthy calories, so we need to make sure we are hitting our protein goals first. We can then consume the rest of our calories in the form of healthy fats. On most day since surgery, my macro will look something like 45-55% protein, 45-55% fat and 10% or less carbs. One month post-op, I am eating between 750-1000 calories per day of protein and good fat foods. Good fats will get your calorie count up, but neither sleeve nor keto require real calorie counting. I just keep track of calories to make sure I am not going off the rails and to set a limit (I don't want too much of a good thing, if ya know what I mean). I have been doing a little intermittent fasting--but not as long as most Keto adherents. I am usually asleep by 9:30 and I am up somewhere between 4:30 and 5am to hit the gym. I don't eat before my work out (you burn 20% more fat doing cardio in a fasted state in the morning). I may skip breakfast altogether and wait until lunch to eat (or I might have a small high protein snack after my workout, if I am really hungry--which I am usually not). I consume most of my calories between 12pm and 7:30pm. I also make sure to him my water goals--which is important no matter what diet/lifestyle you follow. This is as close to Keto as I can safely get at this stage in my recovery. It's working for me. I feel great and blood sugar is great for the first time in years. I am still only 3 weeks into "Keto" or should I say "Bariatric Keto", but it's awesome so far. Since I have been in ketosis (which happens to a lot of WLS patients anyway shortly after surgery), I am losing weight at a very rapid pace (for me). I have loads of energy now. I do feel hunger, but I am satisfied quickly. I enjoy the foods I am eating a LOT. Moreover, the diet I have been following is doctor approved for me. I had my one month follow up yesterday with my surgeon and I went over my diet and workout regimen with him. He cleared me for all activity and had no issues with my diet choices at all. Cutting out processed foods and carbs and eating a high protein,, high fat (good fat) diet melds is like rocket fuel for your VSG in his opinion (with the modifications I described). I am not sure what you mean? In terms of age, I am 44. I am doing full 60 minute spin classes 5 days a week (with 2 in a row on Wednesdays (5am and 6am classes). I am probably overdoing it, but I feel really good after my classes. I have also just been cleared by doctor for all activity--no restrictions. So, I am going to start weight training again, starting tomorrow morning.

Anyone doing the Keto diet after VGS? If so how is it working for you?

I am not misunderstanding. at my weight i can burn 600-800 for an hour of high intensity working out. I also work in a profession on set where I am up and moving around for easily 14- 16 hours a day, sometimes 20 hours. if your resting metabolic burn- as in sitting on a couch all day is say 2400 and then ontop of that you Burn another 2000 between workouts and moving around all day your full calories burned over the course of a 24 hr period is 4400. It is absolutely possible. and then subtract what you eat and thats your deficit. But here's a story for you. i worked several season on the B1ggest Loser show. They often worked out 8 hours a day. Everything they ate was controlled down the the precise calories macros you name it. On average they would hit a Minimum 5000 calorie deficit burn from exercise a day many would burn way more 6000-7000 A DAY- and they would get on the scale (especially the women) and lose 0 lbs or 2 lbs or 3 lbs... all of the time. their calories in and out in no way on earth reflected 3500= 1 lbs. And the women (and men) who had always been overweight lost much slower than the ones who had once been thin but then gained weight. The fact is Drs are learning moe and more all of the time about the microbiome and how a 100 of spinach isn't the same was as 100 cals of a candy bar and the way you body processes it is different. It is why people who eat all raw or Keto can eat a TON of calories and still lose. They dont even count calories and they lose weight hand over fist. So Dont tell me what You know when most drs are only still figuring it out and there is tons of research talking about the microbiome now. Ion fact studies were done on people who were on the Biggest loser and how afterwards their metabolisms change so significantly that even eating 1200 cals a day they gained weight.... because their bodies were fighting like hell to go back to their set point of weight. because your body has a set point. Any other person would lose on that amount but they gained... and they couldn't work out enough to maintain because they were having to do 2 or more hours every days and eat 1200 cals or less just to maintain their weight. Never underestimate the power of the human body to do what ever the heck it wants...

Something to watch is while you usually have perfect cholesterol, you may find that changes while you’re losing. Like oestrogen being released into your body from your fat as you lose weight the same is true of cholesterol. My cholesterol wasn’t perfect but it wasn’t bad just over the high side of normal but it seemed to always be about that regardless if what I weighed so my doctor was okay with it. When I was losing it went up & up & up & my liver function went weird too (also common). So while the keto high fat diet may be something you consider in maintenance, the high fat aspect may be too much while you are losing. My dietician advised keto was fine in the short term & good for kick starting weight loss but it wasn’t really sustainable. (My pre surgery diet was keto.) I did some of my own reading & decided I agreed. Do I eat fat? Yes. Do I eat high fat? No. I get a lot from animal products (meat, dairy) but I don’t add a lot more (been using the same 500g pack of butter for 8 months). Some salad dressing, a little oil if cooking. But then I’ve never enjoyed fattier foods anyway. I look at it as generally a little of everything in moderation & balance. But you have to discover what works best for you in the long term.

I asked my dietician in the group zoom 3 month check in yesterday and she said "because we don't do that. It's not recommended after surgery" so I asked her "ok, but why? Will it make me sick? Will it hurt me? I know the bariatric diet says low fat but my body responds better to high fats, very low carbs, low sugar, and high protein. Is the fat going to hurt me? I don't do all eggs and bacon and all that, and my cholesterol is always perfect. What is bad about it?" and I still got the same response of "because it's not recommended for after surgery". So I never actually got a real answer for why keto isn't allowed after surgery.

Oooooo tell us about vegan keto por favor!