marjon9

The scales sounds like a good one. I paid $50 for mine from Avon Healths, and I do like it, it shows every ounce I lose vs. just 1/2 pounds like most. But I would like to upgrade to a better scale when this one plays out. So, I'll keep yours in mind for sure.

I've had a scale for a couple years now that works great. It's the "My Weigh" XL 440. It is extremely accurate to the tenth of a pound. Gives the same weight over and and over again (that's why I like it, it shows that I weigh 192.6 pounds day after day - Just kidding).

It will can measure up to 440 pounds, it has both a digital read out and a speaking feature if you want to use that. You can get it at this web site for $50:

Digital Scale Buying Made Easy. Digital Scales At Wholesale Prices. - Product Search - Criteria: xl 440

What is the reason for spending $200 on a scale? Maybe it's just that they look great, which is a fine reason. But if you just want a dependable, accurate scale then this My Weigh company makes great scales.

Mark: In several previous posts, the suggestion was made that pro-life or Christian people should not try to influence abortion policy. That was what I was referring to by the "stifling" remark. And while I understand what you are saying regarding abortion, you didn't address the suicide issue. Again, a person is taking a life. If you would try to help that person, then you are interferring with their wishes for their own bodies. Our government interfers with our bodies in many ways. Why is this way off limits? Remember, for 200 years, abortion was not legal. One could argue that NON-religious people foisted their "idiology" on the rest of us and changed what had been considered right and the norm. Where do you see Christians doing this now? Abortion is still legal, and even though there is much debate, it has not been abolished.

In my opinion, society and the lives of children have not improved with the legality of abortion. Every week, sometimes every DAY we hear of another mother killing her kids. In this latest one, the mother left her babies in the car while she worked. When she came out and found them dead from the heat she drove home, put the kids in trash bags, put the bags under the sink, then went out to get a sandwich. How dead are you inside when you can do that? I believe that abortion and the ease with which we can dispose of our problems has cheapened life and is creating many soulless people. I wish I didn't see it that way, but I can't help that my heart grieves for what we are losing.

I think a lot of what you say makes sense and your ideas have the power to persuade people. For every woman who is persuaded by your ideas, and decides not to have an abortion, that will be a great thing for the universe in my opinion. I hope you and people like you do everything you can to persuade more and more women not to have abortions.

The place where we diverge is in the area of a lack of choice.

My reason for advocating choice here is not because of the argument that "this is my body and no one can tell me what to do with it." I agree that the government controls our bodies in a number of ways. I advocate choice here because abortion is just plain different. It is unique. It involves two entities where there is definitely going to be a loser no matter what happens. And the consequences of a decision in this area last a lifetime. I simply believe that no one has the right to force others to take action in this area that goes against their belief system. No matter how much you think you are "helping" them, they don't see it that way.

Another issue is that women are going to get abortions no matter whether they are legal or not. It's just that if they are illegal, many more women will die and suffer grave injuries due to unsanitary circumstances, etc. Just because abortions are illegal does not mean they don't happen.

I also have to say that in my view it is too much of a stretch to blame the general inhumanity of the world on the legality of abortion. I do not believe that because abortion is legal it has now become acceptable to kill your kids, put them in trash bags, and go get a sandwich. I just don't think that there is any evidence that there are more crimes against children now than there were before, or that it is caused by the legality of abortion.

But aside from all that, I say again with all sincerity that I hope you continue advocating your position forcefully. With any luck, you will be able to convince many women to choose not to have abortions.

To me it seems unfair that some people view Christians as judgemental just for expressing our beleifs, but when others express their beleifs its just their point of view.

Please show me one post where anyone said a Christian should not feel free to express their beliefs. That is not the issue here. The issue is that Christians attempt to force other people to live by their beliefs. That is where the problem is.

In your post your are complaining about a problem that does not exist, and in the process you are avoiding the real issue.

We all have a belief system; the prism through which we make judgements and form opinions. Whether you choose to believe in a Creator or chose to not believe in one, you are still "believing" something. Why should those of us who believe in God have to stifle ourselves for the sake of those who believe He does not exist, while the non-believers can feel free to "enlighten" the rest of us without question?

I choose to believe in God. It makes me a better person, more balanced and more "other"-oriented. Many of the people I see who do not believe in God believe in things that I think are harmful: the belief that they are the center of the universe; that what they think or what they want is of utmost importance; in having fun at any cost. They make the environment a religion, the pursuit of pleasure their god. It is not up to me to judge them, I would just not want to be them. And I do not want them to judge me. It is the smug and intolerant tone of some of these posts towards Christians or anyone believing in God that I find offensive. Christians are accused of being intolerant but I find it much more obvious coming from the other side.

Why is it so hard to see that to a Christian, abortion is not just about a woman's body? The baby is a separate entity. Different in every way. Just because it needs the womb to "incubate" and grow does not take away its human-ness. Our society absolutely tells people what they can and cannot do with "their" bodies. Not only can we not steal, rape, murder, or yell "Fire!" in a theater, we cannot do some things involving only our own selves: downloading or viewing child pornography, for example. And attempting suicide will get you arrested and institutionalized. Is there anyone here who could see a person holding a razor to their wrist or taking a bottle of pills or poison, and would not try to stop them? If you would, why? Aren't they free to do anything they want with "their own bodies"? If you would try to help them, good for you! You see them as someone about to make a huge and deadly decision based on something currently wrong in their lives. They are about to take a life that has value and meaning, if given a chance to get through the current problem. Exactly the way a pro-life person looks at a woman contemplating abortion....

I think you have a terrific way of looking at things and, in fact, I actually gree with most of what you say. One thing I agree with completely is that you should definitely not be required to stifle yourself or refrain from expressing your views.

The place where we disagree is that I do not believe you have the right use legislation to force other people to live by your value system. I think you should feel free to do whatever you want to try to educate people to your point of view, or whatever you can do to persuade. I just think that you do not have the right to force people to live by your moral code.

You are complaining that people are trying to stifle you and keep you from expressing your views because you are a Chrsition. But that is absolutely, and obviously, not true. And worse, it's a distraction from the real issue here. The actual fact is, as I'm sure everyone agrees, you should be totally free to express yourself as much as you want to. No one wants to stifle you or restrict your expression, and no one has ever said otherwise. The disagreement comes in when you try to force your views on others through the use of the police power of the state, and try to make other people live their lives the way you believe, no matter how traumatic the consequences are in their lives. That's where the problem is.

I understand that to a Christian, and to many other people for that matter, a fetus is a human life from the time of conception. I respect that view. But in the case of abortion there is also a woman involved. It is not only the fetus that matters. When a woman is carrying an unwanted pregnancy there is definitely going to be a loser. Either the fetus or the pregnant woman is going to lose. If there is an abortion, the fetus obviously loses and many times the woman suffers as well. In the alternative, if the woman is forced to carry an unwanted child to term she will be faced with a series of very difficult, lifechanging choices that can cause incredible pain. It's very easy to say that she can just put the child up for adoption, but this is not nearly as easy as it sounds for many reasons, and many women do not want to do that. Pro-life individuals keep saying over and over again that adoption is the answer. But many women do not agree with that, and they will never agree no matter how many times pro-life people keep saying it. And keeping an unwanted child and trying to take care of it when you are not able to can and often does destroy both lives.

The point is, it is not enough to just point out that in our society you are restricted in certain ways, you can't view child pornography or yell "fire" in a theater, etc. But those situations are not similar to the abortion situation. In those situations restrictions are placed upon one person. In the case of abortion, there are two entities involved, the fetus and the woman. The fate of both is inextricably intertwined. Abortion is a totally unique situation that can't be compared to any other. In the case of an unwanted pregnancy, there is definitely going to be a loser. There is no way to create a law that protects both entities. And many people feel that in this particular unique set of circumstances, it is not for the state/church to force one solution on all no matter what the individual pregnant woman believes.

I think you should feel free to express your views. No one is trying to stifle you in any way. Many of us believe, however, that no matter how strongly you believe that a fetus is a separate human life, in this one unique, highly personal situation involving two entities, you have no right to force your views and your moral choices on others through legislation and use of the police power of the state.

Marc from NYC here --

I have been reading all of your post and you all sound great and congradulations on all of your progress wt loss, and return of your self esteem.

I had decided to do this one year ago -- and a situation came up that I could not at that time.

Well I have now realized that it is no longer a choice. I am literally dying -hypertension sleep apnea and have begun an agressive saving plan to have this surgery. The irony of this is that I am in the field of medicine(as a Physician Assistant) in a small office in NYC. We serve the poor and the office does not provide benifits. I am considered to be an excellant clinician but I can not take care of myself. It causes me alot of shame embarassment and guilt.

I may have to have this done in Mexico and frankly do not want to go there - I realize the physicians there are excellant and have been checking them out. It is not Mexico or them it is the fact that if I got into medical trouble I do not have access to them immediately.

Anyone aware of persons here in the states who do banding for non insured patients? The folks at NYU do but I called them and they want 26,000. That is way out of my range.

I have seen on occasion the term PB - what is that ? I see it associated with over eating post banding but do not know what the initials stand for.

Frankly (and I am not suicidal) but sometimes I feel that there is no hope as I can not ( despite many attempts to control) can not control my eating. This has and is rapidly having a great cost and continuing to the ruination of my life. Then I detest the idea that if I were man enough then I could do something.

Well enough for now and hopefully I have no alienated anyone with my raw gut feelings.

My email is silentfades@aol.com.

Again thank you all for sharing - you have encouraged me in a great way.

Marc

My surgeon is Dr. Kirshenbaum in Aurora, CO right near Denver. You can find his web site in my signature line. He charges $9950. If you want to find out more about him check out a thread on this forum called "Considering Dr. Kirshenbaum." I recommend him.

Good luck getting it all worked out.

You make a good point, Mark. But not all churches believe that they are the only ones going to heaven, just certain well-endoctrinated sects.

That's a good point. I don't mean to include those. I have nothing at all against anyone based on their own personal beliefs. It's when people branch out in the name of religion and start making judgments and laws that relate to me, that's where I have the problem.

What I have always intended to emphasize is that the Christian point of view is not the only point of view and that for many folk this view may be viewed as an errant point of view. There are other areas of the globe where other belief systems carry the same weight as the Christian point of view does in your part of the world. It strikes me that when you make the argument against the right to chose and you choose to base this upon a specific set of religious beliefs you are disqualifying yourselves from being heard by all individuals who do not subscribe to the same set of beliefs.

Certainly Christians have the right to express their point of view. Arguably Hindus, Shintos, Animists, and atheists then have an equal right to express their points of view. My complaint is that you folk are unwilling to recognise this plurality. That is my only complaint.

In a sense I do have sympathy for Christians, because they truly believe that their opinions are supported by The Word of God. It must be very difficult to even allow yourself to contemplate other points of view when you have such beliefs because the very act of doing so constitutes "doubt" in "the Lord."

It is difficult for me to imagine how much pain must be caused to Christians when they truly believe that all human beings who do not accept Christ will burn in Hell for eternity. What an awful burden it must be to carry around that point of view because it clearly involves belief in the inevitability of unspeakable horrors for human beings like Mahatma Gandhi and the Dalai Lama, not to mention the billions of other poor souls who lived their lives in little villages and never even heard of Christ. Christians carry around the belief system that all those human beings will suffer unimaginable horrors, even though this is so clearly cruel and unfair, especially for people who never heard of Christ. What kind of "God" could possibly be that cruel? And what a burden it must be to carry this around and believe in it your whole life because you see it as "The Word of God."

Some Christians will tell you that this way of thinking brings them comfort because they know that THEY will be going to Heaven. But that is nonsense. How can anyone take comfort in the knowledge that they are spared while billions of others suffer. If the world went to war with atomic weapons, who would want to go into little mountain caves and be spared while the rest of humanity burns? That does not seem much like "comfort" to me. And it seems so arrogant to me to even want to be one of the few who is spared while others suffer.

So, I do agree with what you are saying green, but still, I do have sympathy for Christians. To paraphrase the late Anne Richards, because of what they believe, "they can't help it."

"Science has already proved it. There is no honest scientist in the WORLD who will pinpoint the beginning of human life at any place other than conception."

I have not taken a poll of all "honest" scientists, so I can't comment on the accuracy of that particular statement. But I can say, in general, that "science" can never "prove" when life begins. "Science" can do no more than establish certain facts. Science can say that "this DNA combined at conception with that DNA and then certain physical changes occurred in the cells," etc. But science cannot "prove" that this constitutes "life." This question is, and always will be, a matter of conscience, not science. There is no "advance" in science that can ever "prove" that this group of four cells is "life."

"The real argument is not about the presence of human life, but rather about the value of that life."

Naturally, we disagree on this as well. The real argument is about who gets to decide the proper course of action in a given situation. Will the state/church get to decide what others are forced to do in this matter of conscience? Or does the individual who faces all the consequences have the control over their own lives and bodies. That is clearly where the real argument lies.

Hey! Who you callin' happy?

I've told the fewest people I possibly could. My immediate family and one person at work. I don't see any good that can come from telling people. Some think it's great, but those who don't give you a lot of unneeded negativity. Maybe some day when I've lost a lot of weight I'll explain why. And even now I'd tell someone who was very heavy and asked me how I've been losing weight. But generally, I see no benefit in telling.

By the way, if you are interested, there are a number of other threads on this forum that dealt with this issue. I think the search word "secret" would find some, and "who did you tell"

And also, please tell you brother to take a long "wok" down a one-way street.

IT IS POSSIBLE!! You can do this!!

I had over 200 pounds to lose and I've lost 150 in 15 months. I go by the same food plan that a person with a gastic bypass uses.....it works!!

I agree with Terri.......set short-term goals - that make it seems much more doable. And don't just set scale goals......also set goals for the ability to do certain things you can't do now (and we all know what some of those things are!), for a certain blouse you'd love to get back into.....those things count, too, and are so encouraging!!

I never really believed I would have done this well....I just knew it was my last desperate attempt to save my life. It's working....I'm no longer on diabetes meds, blood pressure meds, arthritis meds. I may never reach my goal of 140, I may never lose another pound beyond today, but even if I don't it's been worth it.....I have my life back!!

Best wishes to you sweetie!!!

Also keep in mind that you don't have to fully reach your "ideal" weight in order to find success with the band. I've lost about 35 pound so far and I already feel noticably better in a lot of ways. I think you will feel like a "new person" a dozen times on your trip to "ideal." And you will be a new person each time.

She can shell Brazil nuts with her elbows.

Why is she always in such a good mood?

the week following surgery and today (2 weeks out) I have ablsolutely no pain or discomfort and I'm able to eat anything I want!

Marcy, Dr. K has a great sense of humor, and every once in a while he just tells someone they got the band, but they really didn't. Sounds like you're one of those.

Just kidding! :D Congrats on your quick recovery.

Glad to hear you have that behind you now Shesha. Sounds like it all worked out. Great news. Now you can finally start your bandster life.

I go for my third fill tomorrow.

Tammy Faye had nothing to do with the scandals -- it was all her slimebag husband's doing. She truly did epitomize what Christianity should be -- she loved everyone and really wanted to bring goodness and love to the world. It's just too bad that she was surrounded by greedy assholes.

I am really surprised by the comments I am seeing on this thread. You are seriously suggesting that she did not know what was going on, and that is unbelievable to me. In any other situation, if a man were suggesting that a woman was that stupid and unaware, he be shredded alive by an army of irate and indignant women. Why the free ride for Tammy Faye in this particular situation? I don't get it at all. Can any of you truly imagine that you, yourselves, were living like Tammy Faye and would be unaware of what was happening? That is absurd. I can tell you my wife would understand the whole picture in about 42 seconds.

Jim and Tammy Faye engaged in a religious ministry, pleaded for money on the air week after week, and lived an outrageously opulent lifestyle. Do you really believe that Tammy Faye did not connect the dots? Who could possibly be that stupid? Are you really going to blame this all on her "slimebag husband" and various other "greedy assholes?" That's just sad. I am truly shocked at the denial that is going on here, and I don't understand it at all.

Week after week, Jim and Tammy Faye sold religious timeshares at their PTL facility in a volume that was many orders of magnitude bigger than the number of timeshares they had available to sell. In other words, they had, for example, 100 timeshares and sold 10,000. Are you seriously suggesting that Tammy Faye could not do the math?

There is some reason why the Tammy Faye defenders on this thread are willing to compromise their intellectual integrity and defend Tammy Faye against blatantly obvious facts. I don't understand why it is happening, and I am truly sad to see it.

My heart truly aches for anyone who suffers from a ravaging disease like Tammy Faye did. That being said she was no idol of mine. Her ex, Jim Baker, and her ripped off millions of unsuspecting people who believed in their "fake" ministry and sent in money that made Tammy and Jim millionaires. I am old enough to remember them being on TV every morning and begging for donations for "their ministry" which turned out to be self-serving. Americans made them millionaires and they mis-used all the money and lived like royalty. That being said I feel badly about the death of anyone, but miss her...NO...that I won't do. Justice would have been her serving prison time with her ex.

I am no Tammy Faye scholar, but I must say my understanding of her is pretty much along these same lines as midnightblue. From what I understand, Jim and Tammy Faye sold the rough equivalent of religious timeshares at their PTL facility. But they sold a hundred times more of these timeshares than they had room to accomodate. She and Jim ripped off a lot of people - people who were trying to get closer to god. I have a low tolerance for that sort of thing.

People are complex and Tammy Faye may have had some really good qualities, I really don't know. But she also stole a lot of money from a lot of people in the name of religion.

I would certainly not date or live with a man who was raising a baby or very tiny children.

I agree, green. Actually, I think I'd be a little creeped out living in the same house with very tiny children. I'd be afraid one would run up my pant leg, or that maybe I'd step on one.

Thanks for posting your story. I'm glad to hear you are moving away. It's a whole new life. Reminds me of a Dixie Chicks song. Look forward to hearing an update when you get back on line.

Hi chazn, welcome. Four week liquid diet, eh? Wow, that's a challenge. It will be good to get off to a quick start if you can hang in there with the diet. But honestly, I don't know if I could have done that. I hope you get your surgery date line up. Keep posting. See ya.

Hi nic, welcome to the forum. To tell you the truth, I think that the best way for you to start on this question is to run some searches and see what has been said before on this topic. I think that over 50% of the people here had the surgery done in Mexico, and there are so many threads on the topic that you could read for days and not get through them. Put in the search term "mexico" in the "search" function at the top of the page, and you'll be on your way.

A couple quick answers to your questions. You can go back to Mexico for your fills, some people do. Other people make arrangements with a local doctor for fills and aftercare. It is a good idea to line up your aftercare doctor before you have the surgery because, yes, it is true, many doctors are reluctant to provide after care for those who went to Mexican doctors. But this problem can be solved if you make arrangements in advance.

Another option is that some U.S. doctors are charging rates pretty similar to the Mexican doctors now. My doctor is in Denver and he charges just a little more. You can find his web site in my signature. Other U.S. doctors also have some lower prices these days, if you search around on this forum, or post questions about it, you will find that info.

Good luck.

Wow, man all this hostility is lost on me. I just don't get it. Not that I think this character is necessarily trying to get an honest debate going. I think he probably is just trying to have some fun during his down time. Aren't we all?

I am amazed at some of the hostility that comes out in some of these threads at R&Rs. I guess it is easy sometimes to push each others' buttons when we're essentially anonymous. Plus there are some days that I am just not willing to give people the benefit of the doubt. I guess in reality I'm just usually ambivalent when it comes to these threads. Maybe everyone else is too, depending on what's happened throughout their day.

Tonight Lee, I just figure you for someone out for some fun and entertainment. This thread just didn't pan out well for you, but I think you should try, try again until you get something good going.

Wow, BJean, I see what you mean. Why does the term "Rabies Shot" keep popping into my mind? We are so hard on each other in this world. Sometimes in the past I had the expectation that it will be different on this board, that compassion and tolerance would be found here. After all, this forum is about support. But alas, I see no difference at all.

I want to give you a little bit more serious answer as well. This type of dinner is something that you should be able to manage, but in fairness it is true that if you are having really tight restriction then eating a long, public dinner can raise some issues. Once you've had the band for six months and you sort of learn how to manage it things should be OK. But if you are just learning how the band affects you it can catch you by surprise sometimes. I don't want to give you a bunch of stories and examples that are going to make you worry needlessly. But I would say that it would be a good idea to read more on this forum. People have raised the issue before about how to go out to dinner with friends and family and you can find threads on that question. And post more questions if you have them. This is definitely a manageable situation, but you are right to think about it and to plan for it.

This is a really awful story, I'm sorry you had to go through it. It is hard to give too much advice because the whole thing is almost unbelievable. I can't really imagine parents acting that way. I also can't imagine how your therapist could agree that this is somehow acceptable behavior on the part of your family. It just seems like the whole situation is too complicated and unusual to really understand.

I will say this much. At your age, you really don't have to live with your parents, and it sounds like you should not be living with them. Hopefully everything can be sorted out some day and you can have good family relations, but for now you need to get away and maybe not see them much for a period of time, like a long period of time.

Next, I would get another therapist. Any therapist who would support your parents in this situation is incompetent or worse. You need to get away from that person and find a different therapist.

And finally, you are an adult now, you can do what you want. If you remove all fill from the band you can probably get it to the point where it has no effect on you at all even if it is still inside you. Go to a fill doctor and get all the saline removed, and then it will be like you don't have the band at all.

I have to tell you, I feel like this story is so unusual that there must be another point of view or some important facts that we don't know from what you are telling. But, based on what you have said, this sounds like totally intolerable behavior by your parents which you should not accept. Get out of that house, get a new therapist, get a new life. Maybe some day you can sort things out with your family, but don't worry about that for now.

That's how I see it. Good luck to you.

I think you will just have to tell your husband that, unfortunately, your good friend Marjon9 will be substituting for you at those dinners.