marjon9

I think that people dive in and get their hands dirty to help others in need when they feel motivated to do so. It's a wonderful thing to do. But in my experience it has very little to do with whether one is liberal or conservative. Most of the people I know who are involved in charity programs are liberals, but in fairness I don't get out much. I don't run into very many social conservatives on day to day basis. I do know that my father was the most politically and socially liberal person I've ever met or heard about, and he spent the last 30 years of his life working in homeless kitchens and Aids clinics, etc. He died at 93. I do think, though, that there is another part of this equation that does divide on lines of liberal/conservative. And that relates to the policies of the United States, both domestically and internationally. While this does not hold true in every individual case, I think that the voting record of Congress clearly bears out the fact that conservatives tend to vote in ways that protect big business at the expense of the environment. Liberals are against developing the oil fields in the Alaskan wilderness, conservatives are for it. Liberals support action by the government against global warming, conservatives, as a general rule, go the other way. Conservatives, generally speaking, support the war in Iraq to a greater extent than liberals. Liberals would rather spend these hundreds of billions of dollars on health care, education, domestic infrastructure, etc. Looking at the voting record of members of the legislative branch of the U.S. government, I don't think that there is any rational basis for disagreeing with what I said above. Of course, I fully expect that people will disagree with what I am saying, and they will probably disagree with great vigor and enthusiasm. But I think the objective proof is pretty clearly on my side on this, looking at the way the congress votes.

To be honest with you, I think I'm not worth your time.

You really can't win an argument by simply declaring that I am full of hatred. There is nothing I have said that even comes close to that. If you don't want to answer my posts, feel free to ignore them.

I was born into a world both full of life, and full of death. I was born into a world full of kindness and fairness and justice, and also full of brutality and betrayal. I did not choose any of it, but I was given the whole package as a gift. I love it all, and would not change a thing.

I have difficulty responding to your questions because the way you phrase your questions assumes points of view that I do not agree with. I do not agree that abortion is equal to "people walking around killing each other when they are inconvenienced." I do not agree with you that a person who supports a woman's right to choose believes that "no life is important." So it seems rather pointless to try to explain my belief system to you because you clearly are not open to the possibility that my views have value. In your world, anyone who supports a woman's right to choose is a baby killer who is pretty darn close to the human form of satan. It's hard to have a serious conversation with someone who is that closed minded.

Even asking this question assumes an entire belief system that does not exist for many of us. Why would I have have to "do" anything if I am "wrong"?

But aside from the point that the less killing the better, do you believe that abortion is just like having adults going around killing each other any time they want to?

I have a question for you. Do you believe that if abortion is allowed to remain legal, then they may as well allow adults to go around killing each other any time they want to, because, after all, that would be exactly the same as abortion. Do you believe that? Just curious.

If you actually read my post you would see that I did "point that part out to you." Let me clarify. In a previous post Lisah argued that "for everyone like you, there is someone who was very sure that an abortion was the right thing for her, and a law preventing her from doing that would be as wrong." In response to that you stated that for Lisah to say that is wrong, because "you are positive that there are people out there who feel that they have every reason and right to kill other adult people." That is a silly argument. Your response includes the assumption that abortion is killing a person. But that is the very issue that people disagree about. So, it is silly and circular for you to attempt to support your argument by presenting as fact the very question that is at the center of the entire controversy. Let me give you an example. It is perfectly reasonable, for example, for you to argue that a fetus is a human being because of the following various scientific and religious reasons. In contrast, it is silly to argue that a fetus is a human being because if you kill one you are killing a human being. That is just silly.

There is no lack of understanding about the pro-lifer's position. Everyone in the world understands that pro-lifer's think that abortion is killing babies, and that this is why pro-lifer's believe that government intervention is required. The issue here is not a lack of understanding of the pro-life position. The issue here, instead, is a lack of agreement with the pro-life position. People who support a woman's right to choose feel just as passionately as you do. They are simply advocating that the priority should be given to the grown up, adult human being who is actually alive in the world today, facing real problems. Of course, your response is to say, "no, no, wait, a fetus is a human being!!" You have a right to that opinion. The thing is, though, pro-choice advocates do not agree with you. The problem here is not that pro-choice advocates do no understand that you "really really, seriously, and passionately" think a fetus is baby. And I would also say the same thing to you that I said to gadgetlady about some of your arguments. You diminish your credibility when you make silly arguments, just like she diminishes her credibility when she does the same thing. It is simply a silly argument to claim that abortion should be illegal because you are sure that many adults out there believe they should be able to kill each other. That is just ridiculous, and it takes away from the admitted strenth of some of your other arguments. When people believe they have a right to an abortion, they are not arguing that they have a right to kill a "person." That is not the argument being made. The argument is that the fetus is not a "person."

Frankly, I am not surprised that you "don't doubt it's true." But the fact is, this is just another example of your usual method of argument. You find extreme examples on the far reaches of imagination and believability, and then forward them as if they are the norm (like women having abortions as a rite of passage). You then argue that "abortions are bad because women are using abortions as a rite of passage," that "baby killing is a booming business," and that "abortion clinics are bad because they are full of 'ringers.'" But of course, all of that is nonsense. Even if the far-fetched and unlikely scenarios you present actually did occur in the most rare and unusual situation, they have no relevance to the main stream issues and arguments on both sides. Again, I have to wonder why you do this. You are obviously an intelligent and educated woman. Why do you stoop to these far-fetched and unbelievable extreme examples to support your points? There are many reasonable, mainstream arguments against abortion. I don't agree with them, but I recognize that a well-meaning, intelligent person could disagree with me. But it is just silly to argue that "abortion clinics are bad because they are full of "ringers" who sit around full time day after day trying to trick confused women into having abortions with drugs and pro-life horror stories in order to support the booming business of baby killin." That kind of argument is just ridiculous. It diminishes your credibility significantly, but somehow, you are not able to see that.

You know, paladin may have been right. What is the topic that homosexual liberal atheists would be most likely to discuss? Soft sheets.

I really like my 4 ct sheets. They're a little rough, but when I can't sleep I can play tic-tac-toe.

Here's a description of grits I found on the web. Usually a Breakfast item in the US Southern region. Made from the kernel of corn. When corn has been soaked in lye and the casing has been removed it becomes Hominy. The lye is rinsed out very well and the corn is left to harden. Then the swollen hominy is ground up to the texture of tiny pellets. When boiled with Water, milk and butter it becomes a Cereal similar to cream of wheat. It's used as a side dish for a good old fashioned Southern breakfast. ... I lived in Birmingham, Alabama for a couple years and I did the grits thing. I now "comprehend" grits. I love 'em. My favorite is cheese Grits. But actually, you can eat grits in many ways. There's Molasses Grits, Mushroom Grits, Grits with Butter, Fried Grits, Grits with Raisins, chicken Grits, Pork Grits, Grits Patties, Grits and Okra .......

So, the question is, if green went out on a date with the Headless Horseman and drank Johhnie neat, could they still drive legally in Sleepy Hollow?

I am the least expert person alive on the issues raised in this thread, but just to put in my .02, I would have thought that the combination of band and pregnancy has more to do with providing proper nutrition for the developing baby, and not so much to do with the focus on weight loss. To me it does seem like a concern to have a device inside your body that is restricting intake of nutrition through mechanical means while at the same time being pregnant and having a baby inside that needs above average levels of nutrition. Perhaps it is enough to say that the pregnant mother will get a complete unfill. But I can say that in my case, I've never had any fill at all and I still have a lot of restriction. I also think that just because someone got pregnant with the band and had it all work out OK, this does not necessarily mean that every person will have the same positive result with a pregnancy that occurs while being banded. I just think that this is a serious medical issue that needs more careful consideration than simply three or four anecdotal responses. Anecdotal responses are very valuable, but they are not the complete answer. I don't think it is necessarily great advice to tell this woman to just disregard what the nurse says. I am not trying to be a party pooper here. I hope Donna Marie has her baby and everything works out great. I would just recommend a little bit more of a thorough, fact-based investigation before making this final decision. But then, like I said, I am the most un-expert person in the world on these issues.

No, seriously. You can only eat chicken. But don't worry, because there's a lot of variety. You can eat Chicken Enchilladas, Chicken Pot Pie, Chicken Pita, Grilled Chicken, Baked Chicken, Fiesta Chicken, Bronx Firehouse Stuffed Chicken Breasts, Chipotle Marinated Chicken, Mexican Skillet Chicken, Breast of Chicken Rosina, Gold Coast Breast of Chicken, Chicken Kiev, Baked Salsa Ranch Chicken Breasts, Macadamia Chicken, Latin-Scented Chicken Breast, Chicken Pepperoni Breasts, Chicken Breasts with Lemon, Chipotle Chicken, Chicken Chili, Mexican Chicken-Chili Tart, Hannah's Roast Chicken in Adobo Marinade, Chicken Chalupas, Chicken Fajitas, Fiesta Chicken Rolls, Spicy Taco Chicken, Amazon Fried Chicken Breasts, Chicken Kotletki with Sour Cream Sauce, Chicken Avocado Melt, Casablanca Chicken, Smoked Paprika Chicken, Bacon and cheese Stuffed Chicken, Chicken Tamales, Chicken in Cilantro Sauce, Creamy Chicken Enchiladas, Chicken Amandine, Chicken-Chile Cheesecake, Chicken Sour Cream Enchiladas, Cheesy Chicken with Chiles, Chicken Fajita Casserole, Annapolis Valley Chicken, Autumn Chicken Breasts, Chicken in Haides, Bacon-Wrapped Chicken, Shredded Pueblo Chicken, Opryland Stuffed Chicken, Mexican Style Chicken Kiev, Mayan Festival Party Chicken, Crash Site Chicken, Chicken Paola, Camembert Chicken, and Chicken Road Kill, to name a few.

Unfortunately, people who have been banded can eat only chicken. But don't worry, there are a lot of good recipes. There's Chicken Cacciatore, Lemon Chicken, Chicken Parmesan, Teriyaki Chicken, Chicken salad, Fried Chicken, Mushroom Chicken, etc. Heck, you can even have Chicken Grits. Just kidding. The way it seems to work with the band is, it's different for everyone. And it can even be different for the same person at different times of day, and different amounts of fill, etc. For the most part, there are no foods that you cannot eat with the band. On the other hand, for weight loss purposes, the band works best if you eat solid Protein items first, like meats that you like (crab should be fine if it goes down OK, you just have to try), and then vegies next and then carbs, etc. That way you are full the longest on the least food, while still getting your protein. People say this is the way to make the band work best for you. So, it's a process of trial and error, adjustment, etc. If you find that you are losing weight OK, you can probably eat more variety and perhaps even "cheat" a little bit. If you find that you are not losing well, you probably need to focus in more on the traditional band diet (protein first, vegies, etc). Regarding grits, some people say that you need to be careful at first with things like grits and oatmeal, since they can expand inside once you eat them. So go slow with those. You've only just been banded. And talk to your doctor about this. And don't forget, if all else fails, you can always just eat a lot of chicken. There's Chicken Marsala, Chicken Piccata, Chicken Alfredo, Sweet and Sour Chicken, Chicken Stew, Chicken Soup, Chicken Ceasar, Chicken Wrap, Stuffed Chicken, Roasted Chicken, Chicken Fricasee, Poached Chicken, Chicken a la King, Bar B Q Chicken .....

MsDad, your post is much appreciated. Unfortunately, that type of testimony does not seem to be enough to change or enlighten any minds. Certain types of conservative religious folks read that, and could read the same from thousands of others, and yet still come away from the experience feeling like they know better because a) the Bible says so, and they know 2 people who swear they were "cured." I'm convinced that the best chance there is for enlightenment in this area comes from people like you who tell their stories. I think this is the best chance to break through the rhetoric and make a human connection in a way that allows people to understand. And in fairness, I do believe there has been some progress in recent years, both socially and legally. In another 20 or 50 years, there should be a sea change on the whole issue. Anyway, thanks for taking the time to share your experience.

Well, let me put it this way. I do have my shoes custom made by Rossignol Skis, Inc.

Keep in mind, however, that the well-known naturalist, Euell Gibbons, reminded us that "you know, many part of a pine tree are edible".

It's actually 3.2 a day, not 320. The annual total is 1168, not 116,800. And the point many are making is that these are not viable babies. I realize these are insignificant details in the way you think about things. This, after all, still represents a political victory against those evil liberals. So the facts are not really that important.

Fundamentally, I think of Sanjaya as the Teenage Mutant Ninja Idol. http://images.eonline.com/eol_images/Articles/20070328/285.malakar.032807.jpg