TruBlueSue

As for suicide bombing being considered a war crime - the Geneva COnventions don't SPECIFICALLY address suicide bombers - the problem is that they usually occur outside the scope of a formal war. You have to look at the times in which the Conventions were written - these things just were so far outside the scope and experience of the authors that it wasn't even a though - kinda like flying a plane into a building on purpose was outside of almost everyone's imagination. Also, the Conventions don't get amended very often...

See, in my experience, fanatic Christians, Jews and Muslims are all fundamentalist, but not all fundamentalists are fanatics - to say that a muslim fanatic is different that a christian one is disingenuous - and what causes so much of the problem that we have here in North America with the Muslim world today. WE just don't get it.

Ron, honestly, I really don't think its you sharing what you believe to be the 'ultimate truth' that gets to some - including me - its your abrasive, imperative tone. (by imperative, I mean the statements with exclamation points...)

That's exactly what I mean with wrestling.

agreement was NOT part of it - and in Judaism, one is NOT incouraged to have faith without the wrestling - and not everyone has to believe everything to still be considered a good, thinking, striving Jew.

Wait, Ron - Hitler claimed to be a christian and I use little 'c' so as not to offend anyone...lutheranism WAS the state religion in the Third Reich...

Ron, I'm not offended by you saying JC is the messiah, and I do not think you are wrong, per se - I believe, and the Rabbis of old teach thatG-d delights in our wrestling with him - and I chalk all this right up there to that.

Taliban is just what I thought of, too, Sue. Funny the root of taliban is talib, which in arabic means student - taliban is just the plural, meaning students...but fanatic is fanatic is fanatic...

Man, after listening to 'his' ranting and raving tonight, my husband is pissed! He just doesn't get why I am 'wasting' my time - and then accuses me of baiting him just for the sake of it! I gotcha backs, too, grrlzz...although my husband may be sleeping on the couch tonight b/c of my debating here...

Sure I would - I have no problem with civil discourse. Like I said earlier, I think G-d gets a kick out of his creations wrestling with him like Jacob did.

Ron, I am not offended by anything you say as an absolute spiritual truth, because I personally believe that you're misguided and that you honestly DON"T hear how abrasive you sound in your posts.My belief has nothing to do and is in no way an attack on you or your belief. That you're abrasive is okay and as I said before, while I have in the past and continue to defend your right to say those things, I reserve my right to disagree, and to dicuss my disagreement with you in a civilized manner.

I will happily read it in my Tanakh. I'll even read it in any version of your bible that you choose - as long as you read it in mine. I assume in your thirty years of study you learned hebrew to better understand your own scripture, right?

Nope that's not what I have said nor what I am saying. You can tell me til the cows come home that you think me a fool, and I will take that as an absolute compliment coming from someone like you. You can believe that the earth is flat, the sky is green, and that the sun revolves around the earth. Doesn't make much difference to me either way. But, do me a favor, okay? Keep your so-called truth to you and yours. Don't force me to defend it or to support it monetarily or anyway else. Just because BuSh and his ilk are running things, that does not mean that our Constitution or the ideals that our country was founded on have somehow been dissolved due to their 'inconvenience' to those who believe as you do. the great thing about the founding fathers (read the bestseller Washington, if you need a refresher) was the priescence they had about exactly this kind of thing happening in America. They planned for it and put it in writing - separation of Church and State - no belief test for citizenship, etc. Besides, if you quote me some New Testament bible verse saying that those who don't believe in G-d are fools, I'd laugh, since I personally can't believe in something that contradicts the Torah; I don't believe G-d would just change his mind and create a new belief system on the foundation of the old - if so, then maybe Islam really IS the correction of both our faiths?

WOWOWOW - Okay, I don't deny, I don't have some universal truth, but I do have a problem with your absolutist attitude. I have no fear of saying that to you or anyone else here,there., in person, in Iraq, and anywhere else crap is spewn in the name of someone's 'truth'.

I don't see anything I need to thorw gas bombs about...lol!!!

yeah, yeah, but I have my standards...LMAO :heh:

hahahaah people gotta eat, even bandsters!!!

Sometimes I was, and sometimes I jsut felt like the ignorance was beneath the time it would take me to notice it, ya know? Like I said, though, some of that crap got me so p/o'd that I couldn't type fast enough to keep up with my thoughts, and I would fubar it all up...and I most definately didn't want the typos to mar the argument.

You guys were awesome over there...just have to say...keeps me from going off and getting ahead of my fingers trying to type mad...lol...

TOM I LMAO when I read your two scenarios. G-d likes it when we wrestle with him - again, see Jacob. That's what we're doing here - I'd bet he'd be delighted.

HAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA I love it I ask my husband this all the time about the Christians...

At least he can speak his native English without mangling it!! One big criterion of mine personally...

GeezerSue, I too have a disability rating and, although it's enough to get me a damn license plate, its not enough to keep me from having to pay for my meds, services, etc. I and my family are middle class; my husband goes to school full time and I am the primary breadwinner; we have a three year old, and I still have to pay for my PTSD drugs because my 'primary' disability is NOT mental...lol..maybe it is b/c I am P/O'd about George and all his neo-con fanatics. PS - NO, I don't use the plate or the placard - I figure there's always someone out there who needs that space more than I do...and weight loss helps - being 39 and a relatively healthy looking white chick gets me the dirty looks EVERY time until I pull out the hand grips and leg brace. Assholes. lol I hate al lthe questions they engender, too - what, a chunky (not for long) white chick SERVED in a WAR??? What war was that? (that pisses me off, too - we're in a war that no one sees and no one but the service member and their families are suffering for/through...another thread lol)

Okay, well, even though I'm currently in Texas and in exile from my beloved Michigan (lol) I can't get with the Cowboys...gimme hockey and the Red Wings any day!!

Having jumped out of a perfectly good airplane once and NOT liked it, I'll contribute my bloomers to Green's jump lesson. (I just had to go buy smaller ones, so I've got some to donate!!) Now if I could get the hell out of this D Cup!!!:faint: