acp1974

Hi, Just wanted to post a (much shorter!) update. I got a small fill last week and I seem to be pretty tight at this point. Still have never vomited (or PB'd) but I hit a point yesterday where I ate very little but realized I could not eat more. It's a weird little thing, this band - I can't figure it out. Made one or two not great choices this weekend food-wise, but what I will say is that I made "not great" choices vs. "terrible" choices. Which is a victory of sorts. And by not making a terrible choice, I didn't get down on myself, compound the error, and suddenly drop back into old habits. I still exercised and I still lost a bit of weight, and I'd rather have a little extra Peanut Butter any day than have gone on a Pringles bender.... Anyway, keep posting your stories. I'm encouraged by all of you and want us all to succeed!

Hi all, What a great thread. Thank you for doing this, and for making me feel comfortable enough to post my first message here in many months. I was banded in May, and had a very brief honeymoon period. I lost about 40 lbs from the time I started my two-week pre-op diet until the time I went back on solid foods many weeks later. It's that transition to solid foods that was difficult for me. Not from a physical standpoint, but an emotional one. Once I got my strength back and felt less like I'd just had an operation and had to be very, very careful, I began to push it a bit with foods. It started slowly, and with a situation that is probably fairly common for many of us: I had a hectic day, didn't eat for many hours, and found myself far from home and driving. I got chili from a Wendy's and it went down fine. So I got a Frosty, because hey, that would go down fine too. And because I deserve it, and what the heck, I've already had the chili! food is an addiction for me - and I speak only for myself. I don't smoke, I don't drink, I don't gamble, I eat. I eat when happy, sad, high, low, bored, anxious, stressed, lonely, you name it. I eat to squash whatever feelings I don't want to feel, to erase that emotion and bury it beneath the calm that food gives me. I even prefer the shame and sometimes the physical pain that overcomes me after a binge to actually feeling the feelings that I'm trying to avoid. It's deep, and I'm sure many of you can relate. In any case, after a while that one chili turned into whatever processed junk food I could handle, which turned out to be pretty much everything. I drank fluids and ate at the same time, which probably helped. But I also have not ever experienced a pb, I haven't vomited, and I have only ever felt something "stuck" once, and that seemed to resolve itself fairly quickly. I've had two fills, and am now at 5cc in a 10cc band. I go in today for an appointment and hopefully will get another, though I am loathe to go in because I know I've gained some weight back. But I am going to go - and I'll just try to be as honest as I can be. I have been working out (just the past 5 days, but hey, it's a start) and I have been eating well for a week now. And I feel like it's a trend that I can continue. What is helping me is getting on here, reading these posts, and trying to situate myself and my mind such that I put myself in a position to succeed. Some very basic things go out the window when I eat like an addict: cooking, preparing lunch to take to work, eating at regular intervals, getting regular sleep, etc. All of these reinforce and contribute to the continued bad habits. So I'm making changes and forcing myself to take the actions (ie making lunch) necessary to make it easier for me to make better choices (ie eating that lunch instead of getting takehout at work). And I'm posting here today, and will continue to do so, to remind myself (and maybe you if you are in my same situation, following this thread but not posting...) that I am not alone and that I am not a terrible person who has ruined this opportunity. Believe you me, I play a great judge, jury, and executioner. I have done plenty of that, and it gets me nowhere. So rather than do that, I'm going to accept where I am, and remember that I had the courage to get this surgery, the strength to get through it, and the will to succeed. That will is still there, in all of us - we wouldn't have done this if we weren't willing to succeed! We just forget it, we get sidetracked, we fall back into patterns we have held onto for a lifetime. IN OTHER WORDS, WE ARE HUMAN! So I've forgiven myself for being human today. That frees me up a bit to not feel self-pity, and instead to do that work that I need to do to help myself. Sorry for the long post - clearly something had been building up in me! Thank you all for posting and sharing your stories, they've helped me a lot.

I like the idea of "working yourself out of a craving" - so much of this is mental, and anything we can do to get past that state of craving ("head hungry" as they say, or emotional hunger as opposed to physical hunger) is a good thing. As you get a month or more out of surgery, your swelling is down, and you don't have restriction, that sense of urgency you felt after surgery can wane a bit. I know it has with me, so I need to reignite that sense of urgency within myself. That doesn't mean I don't want to find my sweet spot, or don't expect to get some assistance when I do, but I do need to address the mental aspects that led me to overeat in the first place. It's too easy to think the band will do the work for you, or that surgery will scare you straight. I was really starting to believe that, but that's where you have to be vigilant. food addiction, overeating, emotional eating, whatever you want to call it, is always lurking there. We can't rest on our laurels - I should know because I was feeling pretty darn proud of myself two weeks ago and I fell back into old habits..... Will report back on my first fill - thanks again for starting this thread and keeping it going, we need each other's support!

Been having trouble myself lately. About 10 days ago I overate, and found that I could actually eat if I wanted to - not a good discovery. I just expected I would PB or vomit or something, but like everyone says, you can eat around the band. Old habits - food as comfort. It's been a rough week. I think I felt like I'd screwed up, and then I felt bad, then I screwed up again to dull the pain, and so on and so forth. It's humbling. I dropped a ton of weight in my first month, and then I hit a plateau for a week or so, then life intruded a bit and then I was back to old habits. I'm sure I've gained but I too have been avoiding the scale (and the gym) lately. I should know better, and I take full credit for falling off the wagon. But I'll write this to you, and to myself, and everyone who is struggling: what happened yesterday does not have to dictate what happens today. Thinking about it will only continue the cycle, so don't beat yourself up. You can always start fresh, so I'm gonna concentrate on that. I go in for my first fill tomorrow. I don't expect it will be a lot, so I will have to remember that I need to do the work on my end in order to really make this thing work. It's not going to happen overnight, but it will happen if I keep working it. Best of luck to all of you and thank you for starting this thread, it helped me out today.

Hey, about time we updated this thread! I definitely haven't posted as much after surgery as I did before - with the exception of the first week after surgery. Funny how we just get back to our regular old lives, and things return to normal. I do try to check the forum often though because it reminds me I'm not alone. Congrats mtkjim on your weight loss! It feels good doesn't it! Frankly it feels good just to not be gaining, and instead to have gained some control over the process that I didn't have before. I think I've lost a similar amount of weight, which feels good - on one hand, it's come off a bit faster than I thought it would. On the other hand, I have a lot to lose and this was a huge change for me in terms of food intake, so it makes sense. And for me it's not so much the number as the fact that I've lost more than 10% of my total body weight since I began this process. Which is just exciting. I mean, I'm not about to hit the beach or buy a sleeveless t-shirt, but people are starting to notice and most importantly I have more energy. That's the key. So my experience over the last couple weeks as I've transitioned back to real food is that I do get hungry, especially when I don't eat properly (Proteins first, etc), and when I go too long between meals. That creates an additional "head" hunger feeling, which can lead me to get big eyes and want to overcompensate or eat things that are not nutritious. And I have: I've had a couple of meals I regret, or at least that were learning experiences. Compared to pre-band, we're talking small potatoes in terms of quantity. But I've been stuck on the road in a situation where fast food was the easiest option, and made a poor decision to eat some. But those instances have been pretty rare, thankfully. My exercise hasn't been as steady as I'd like - for example it's been about 8 days since I've gone to the gym - but I have had weeks when I went 3-4 times. So far just the elliptical, but it really feels good and I need to make it more of a priority going forward. Not sure about any of you, but I can actually eat a fair amount, and I have had no band-related issues - I have not felt "stuck" or PB'd, as they call it, or thrown up. But by "fair amount" I mean maybe 2 cups of food in a meal. Which is more than what I'd assumed I could handle. I can, for example, eat 3 scrambled eggs in a sitting without any issues. I try not too, and try to leave food on my plate at each meal, but I have a feeling if I wanted to I could really test the limits of this thing. The thing that seems to be keeping me from doing that is staying with high Protein and lowish carbs, and trying to stick to complex carbs when I have them. I think that aids in controlling hunger in general, so perhaps that's why I'm not experiencing quite the "bandster hell" that I've heard about. But I'm as susceptible to food as anyone else on here, so I would not be surprised to struggle with that experience, especially in the next few months before I hit the sweet spot in terms of fills. Ok, sorry for the superlong message - just wanted to update you on my experience. Also want to hear from the rest of you, and to keep this thread alive! I'm sure all of our experiences are different, but it would be great to stick together and offer support as we each move forward on this journey. Hope everyone is doing well:smile2:

Great thread guys, just what I needed to hear. I'm 4.5 weeks post-op, and this past week has been the most challenging. It was a combination of a couple things: I felt hungrier physically, and I also felt a lot of stress, which would normally lead me to use food as a calmer-downer. And I did. For the most part, I'm sticking to my calories and I'm fine during the day. But I have noticed that I really have to be careful to have the right food handy when I need it, and to eat more often. The other night, I went 6 hours between a relatively small lunch and dinner. I was also in a terrible mood, driving back from a crappy day at work. I turned into McDonald's. I know, I know. I broke more or less every rule I'd been following, including no bread, no drinking while eating, low carbs, you name it. If there was any upside at all, my cheating meal consisted of one Double Cheeseburger, a small order of fries, and a small shake. Not nearly what I would have done pre-surgery - in fact, not even a third of what I would have had. But it was still 1100 calories and 45 grams of fat. And I did it out of emotion. I could have just as easily stopped at a 7-11 and gotten a Protein bar and held myself over, but I had that big physical/emotional hunger, the 1-2 punch. The result was that I felt like crap (predictable), felt overfull, had low energy, was pissed at myself, and didn't sleep well that night. It wasn't worth it, and it gave me a glimpse back at the me that got me into this mess in the first place. I need to change that person, because I know he's still there and he'll rear his ugly head whenever given the chance. At the same time, I have to understand that if I get *too* down on myself for screwing up, I may fall into that bad cycle of overeating to deal with that feeling, which just perpetuates the cycle. I didn't get to 360 lbs overnight, and the behaviors and coping mechanisms I developed over many long years aren't going to go away overnight. But I can try to start over each day, and so far I've been able to do that. Reading this thread really helped. So glad to know that there are others out there who have the same issues and to have a place to come to talk about mine. Thanks guys, really appreciate your honesty and thoughtfulness.

Good for you semarks71, glad to hear you are doing well and I hope you're feeling better. I am also feeling really good, and one of the biggest factors in that is exercise. I'm not going crazy or anything, but I'm getting to the gym and doing the elliptical 3-4 times a week for 30-40 minutes. I really recommend it - it's low impact so you don't put a ton of stress on your joints, but it gets the heart going and really works muscles if you push yourself. I use "interval" mode, where you go really hard (with lots of resistance) for 2 minutes, then you recover for 2 minutes with less resistance. It's a good exercise for the recovery phase too - I really want to do more strength training, but I'm waiting a couple more weeks until I'm sure I'm completely healed to do that. The other thing about exercise is I can incorporate more calories into my diet and still keep losing weight. I moved from liquids to soft foods and so my calories went from the 800/day to around 1300/day, but my pace of weight loss has continued. Hope everyone is doing well. I'm just amazed at how good it feels not to be a slave to food, to feel more energy and to feel more active in general. I'm not perfect, and I'm not sure I've figured out my band yet, but I know that I made the right decision and I just feel...hopeful. Hope you do too, let's keep this thing going:smile2:

That's some good perspective there. I just re-read my message and realized that even as I preach "don't look at the scale" I've been really results-focused and not as process-focused. Damn mind, it plays tricks on me.:thumbup: I think that's the funny thing about losing weight, or even the expectation of losing weight. Or maybe about the expectation of anything, I guess - but either way, that's great advice and much needed perspective on the subject of plateaus and also of healing and patience after surgery. Thanks!

I was banded on 5/19, so three weeks since surgery for me. Down about 20 lbs since surgery, which seems really quick. Ironically the last 7 lbs have been since I started eating food again (albeit soft food) and increased my calories. I also started exercising more vigorously (elliptical only for now) so that's probably what has kept me losing. Definitely have the same issue with a stitch sticking out from the port incision. I cut it down but yeah, it does not appear to be "dissolving" and it's a bit itchy. But the incision is healing so I just have to not touch it. And yes, it does seem indented somehow when I suck in my stomach. The other incisions look like they'll disappear without any scar but the port incision I doubt will do that, and the indent seems like it's probably not going to go away. My doc said they all look normal, so I take his word for it. Jillsko, sorry to hear about the clot, but it sounds like it's not going to adversely affect your health, so that's good. If there's one thing I've learned from this site, it's that no two people heal or lose weight the same way or at the same rate - there are just too many individual factors involved. Keep the faith and follow your doc's orders and you'll be fine I'm sure. Great to be post-band though, eh? Especially lately as I've ramped up my exercise and gotten back on real food, and as my healing has continued, I'm feeling just really thankful and really glad I did this. I am excited for the destination, but I am working hard to keep it in the day and to concentrate on the journey.:tongue2:

I agree with the advice about the routine. It may be that your body has gotten used to your routine. I'd also suggest maybe if you're doing more aerobic exercise like elliptical or treadmill at a steady pace, try interval training where you go hard-easy-hard. If you're not doing strength training, that really helps increase your metabolism. If you're doing both, then try changing your workouts and working different muscles or different machines. What's great is that you're exercising vigorously, and congratulations on your weight loss so far. It might just be that you need to tweak the program to break through that plateau. Best of luck!

I'm about 3 weeks out now, and I hit a bit of a plateau during week 2. I began to exercise fairly vigorously at the end of week 2, and it's coming off again. This as I've upped my calories and moved on to real food (albeit soft foods). I think it's so individual, so I can't say this is a recipe for success for everyone. But exercise is its own reward - it releases endorphins, it improves your mood, it really is something that I need and want to get in the habit of doing - not just to lose weight, but for the rest of my life. Right now I'm just doing the elliptical machine, and pushing myself a little bit harder each time. I've upped my calories because I need the energy to exercise (and because I'm burning a lot of calories exercising). It is very weird though, weight loss - there are times it just doesn't happen and then there are days where you feel like you've lost 4 lbs overnight. And it varies from person to person. I think the best advice I could give (to myself and others) is to trust the process, and invest in the process (eating well, exercising), then let the outcome take care of itself. In other words, don't check the scale too often! And don't let the short-term results dictate your mood or distract you from your long-term goals! :tongue2:

Had my post-op with the surgeon today, 15 days post surgery. Everything healing fine, and I'm down about 13 lbs since surgery and almost 30 lbs since the beginning of May (keep in mind I started at 360, and went from my normal heavy diet to 600-900 calories a day). So that's good. I won't have my first fill for another 5 weeks, and I've been cleared to eat soft (but real) foods. I've also been told that with a larger band that I have, it might take many fills until I hit my sweet spot. So this should be interesting. In some ways I really like the protein shakes and soups, it simplifies everything. I don't have to worry about liking it, I look at it more like a job. And I feel great - I may still be 330 or so lbs, but I'm moving better and I have more energy than I have had in years. So I guess I'm really hoping that this next month or so I can find a way to eat real food and try to listen to my body and not my head. I've spent a lifetime eating until I felt stuffed, and now I have to learn what "full" really is. I also have to up my exercise now that I'm feeling mostly healed. That combo will hopefully keep me losing weight at some rate (if not as fast as I have) until my fill. My nutritionist gave me two book recommendations: "Intuitive Eating" and "The Seven Secrets of Slim People". She said didn't care for the title of the last one, but both apparently have practical advice about reorienting yourself with regard to food. Thought I'd pass that along. Ok, long message, I'm rambling. Just hoping everyone is doing well - if you are, post a message, I'd like to hear from you. If you aren't, post a message too, we'll commiserate. If I know one thing it's that we can't do this alone....:Dancing_biggrin:

I hear you. There's an old saying that if you don't want a haircut, don't hang around the barbershop. It's just tougher when the barbershop is your home, though, eh?:wink2: I have been trying to keep myself more busy in the evenings, because that's typically when I overate. And I've been trying to spend less time on the couch, because that's where I overate. And finally, I've been trying to watch less TV, because that's what I did when I was overeating. Especially the food shows - I love to watch them, but right now they just trigger me. I really have had to cut them out of my television diet. The funny thing about all of this is that it's all healthy - less food, less tv, and less sloth. None of us are going to be sitting on our death beds thinking "I wish I'd overeaten more, or spent more time on the couch, or watched more TV!" So this band, and the habits we change to help our success, are all good ones that will lead to us being more active, and to ultimately enjoying life more. It's not going to happen overnight, and I'm trying to not put too much pressure on myself. Change is hard. But slowly we can change our habits and use this tool to help us do more productive things with our time, our bodies, and our lives. Good luck while you are home - you'll probably be happy to be back at work, because you'll have the routine and not so much free time on your hands! Congrats again on the band and keep up the good work - progress, not perfection....:biggrin:

I'm two weeks out now, and I didn't get any fill during surgery. I've seen it both ways, but it seems more docs do not fill at surgery time than do. My first fill is a month away still, and I am definitely getting hungrier now that the swelling has subsided. I go back for a follow-up tomorrow and then will be put on soft foods for a while - though I have to say I've been eating soups all this week without straining them, and have been fine. I think the hard thing for me is that I'm still wondering what "full" is exactly. And how to differentiate head hunger from actual hunger. I find that I can eat two cups of soup, for instance, but that I can be perfectly satisfied by one. The second one is just head hunger. I don't want to test my band by any means, so I am still treading pretty lightly, but I guess I need to pay more attention. All I can tell is that if I have the extra soup I feel a bit fuller in my upper stomach. Better to overdo soup than something with empty calories, but still, it's one of those things I have to keep an eye on. I think making only one portion of something is a good idea for me, because I won't be tempted to go for that second cup and will still feel satisfied. Guess I'm entering the "bandster hell" period here....it's one thing to be recovering and doing liquids only because you have to, but I think the challenge really will come in when real food is introduced and you have to negotiate that. Congrats to all the May bandsters again. Anne, we're sorry to be losing you but I'm very happy you'll be getting the sleeve and getting it done so soon, too - that's great. Let's keep this forum alive and help each other through the "bandster hell" period until we all get decent restriction:cool2:

I was banded on 5/19, so I'm obviously not ready for major toning exercises, especially anything using the core muscles. I have been walking, and I'm able to do that without discomfort at a decent pace, and longer each day. But I am losing pretty fast right now, and I really want to know when I can do something that builds muscle a little bit. I guess I have this fear of getting that "deflated" look. Probably more than a little irrational, I know. They generally say 5-6 weeks for strength training, right? But what if I'm 3 weeks post-op, my incisions are healed completely, and I don't feel any pain? Can I, say, do some squats or arm curls, or anything like that? Does it all affect the core or are there exercises that I can work on that will not dramatically affect my core muscles? Also: is there any harm in doing the elliptical rather than the treadmill? Is there a certain time one should wait to do that? If I can't start doing any strength training for another month, I'd like to at least get my upper half moving with the elliptical. Any help appreciated. I am following my food plan to a tee and won't do anything my doctor doesn't approve. Let me know what your experience was in easing back into working out after you were banded. Thanks!

Thank you both for the great advice! I see my doctor Thursday and will consult with him about it. But it is good to remember that I am healing, and that walking/elliptical may just have to do for right now. Really appreciate the thoughtful responses!

Anne, sorry to hear about your hiatal hernia, but a) that's good that you got that taken care of, and :cursing: you have a great attitude about it and I'm sure you'll succeed with an alternative. And speaking of alternatives, I admit that I don't know much about the sleeve, but I have heard from at least one of my doctors how that is the procedure that will be most employed in coming years. I might have had it myself but I live in MA where it is not covered by insurance yet. Things happen for a reason, and it sounds like you had the most pressing issue taken care of first, and that you are still in line for weight-loss surgery, so I look forward to hearing about that! Congrats to WaitLoser as well! That was a quick in-and-out, I was in the hospital overnight (per some sort of health insurance or hospital guideline) and I was actually glad to be there for the first night after surgery just to have nurses around. Was definitely ready to go a couple hours before they actually did let me go, though....

I'm a big fan of Synthrax Nectars, especially the chocolate Truffle flavor. It's quite good. Available at Vitamin Shoppe. To help texture I'd use a blender and ice, and fat free milk vs. Water if your diet allows (which it should, I think). Also I use a big dollop of fat-free greek yogurt (Fago Total 0%) which adds Protein and thickness to the shake. Anything in the vanilla variety I have found chalky and distateful. I just bought some frozen berries today to mix in with it (may as well use it) but I'm post-op so I'm not as worried about sugar. I would try to get some sugar-free syrup if you really can't stand the flavor.

Thanks for the post! That does sound good. I'm still early in post-op so I haven't gotten sick of soup yet, but I can always use new ideas. I'll have to try that one. Tonight was low fat cream of broccoli soup using a magic bullet blender. Just chicken stock, broccoli, fat free evaporated milk, salt, pepper, and finished with olive oil. Not quite as quick as it appears in the informercial, but pretty easy and definitely tasty. Anyone else have a good simple soup recipe for those of us on liquid/soft foods?

I've read lots of people's stories and everyone reacts differently. It is surgery, so the best thing to do is to let yourself heal on your own time and to call your doc if you think anything doesn't feel right. I've read stories on here where people took weeks to recover, and others where they didn't even have to take pain meds (!?!) and were up and about later the same day. My doctor's office recommended 2-4 weeks off from work, for what that's worth. As for band slippage, that's always a possibility, but they'll do a scan of you at your followup appt and be able to tell if there has been any. My guess is just that you are healing and the swelling is still subsiding, which is making getting your protein and fluids down a bit hard. I've also read a lot about post-band regret on here, and it always seems that it goes away once you are healed and over the trauma of surgery, and when your life is back to its regular cycle. I bet that going back to work will help, and I bet you'll feel a lot better in 4 days than you do now - you're just 6 days post-op, so be easy on yourself! You can do this. Hope that helps, and congratulations on getting your surgery and taking care of your health long-term - we should all be proud of ourselves for making this decision and following through.

Funny you should say this, I was banded 5/19 and have noticed this the past two days. Both times it was because I was busy with work or in a meeting and I left too much time between meals (shakes). I think two things are happening - the swelling is going down and being at work sometimes makes it harder to eat at regular intervals. Timing is everything when you are on a restricted diet, you just can't let yourself get too hungry by delaying a meal. In any case, I'm with you - the hunger has started to return a bit. But we've all read about "Bandster Hell" and I think that we'll need some of the willpower and strength we showed in the pre-op diet phase to get us through until our first fills. Congrats everyone on the surgery, it's pretty cool to be on the other side, eh?

Yes, lighter indeed - let us not forget the purpose of this whole enterprise! I am looking forward to solid food again, to complete healing and zero gas pains/digestive issues - and to exercising more vigorously than just walking - but the weight loss since I started my pre-op diet at the beginning of the month, and since my surgery, is kind of thrilling. I know it'll slow down, but for *right now* it more than makes up for the relative discomfort.

I think the one general rule is that it gets a little better every day, so definitely hang in there! The gas will pass (literally), the shoulder pain will subside, and the swelling will go down. Not at the same rate for everyone, but it does get better each day after surgery. It is a good question though - why can't they get that gas out of you at the end of surgery? And why is the gas pain in my shoulder or chest, not my stomach? Mysteries of the universe....

Congrats yourself, I'm excited for you. No, my late day hunger is gone - in fact in general I'm not experiencing "hunger" per se - I just try to drink Water and Protein drinks on a schedule and keep hydrated. As the swelling goes down, I think that's when my hunger may increase. So in other words: talk to me in a few days:-) Last night I had some broccoli Soup, strained of course, and I tell you it was like a steak to me, just a little cup of it. It was a nice break from Protein shakes, and it did go down fairly easy, and also reminded me how good real food tastes. I think the one great thing is that I didn't feel hungry after it - my mind might have wanted to experience another serving, but I just didn't have that physical hunger. Again, we'll see how long this lasts. But it's 100% easier than the pre-op diet, in that the physical need is not there to add to the mental need. Once I hit the "bandster hell" as they call it, before getting a fill, I may feel differently. But then hopefully I can draw on the strength I felt of having survived the pre-op diet (which honestly I didn't think I could do). Best of luck to you mtkjim, and childgod752, best of luck to you too as you near your surgeries. I'm rooting for all of us to be successful at this.

I'm also five days out, and exercise is still a bit hard at this point. Even walking for me has just been getting better today, and I think each day it will get easier. So I'd concentrate on healing and resting, but definitely try (as the other poster said) to walk around to avoid blood clots. Even just around the house every hour or two helps. As for protein, the "Any Whey" brand of protein at GNC mixes well with Crystal Light Iced Tea - it's refreshing and not milky like the chocolate or vanilla flavored "shakes". I would try that, or Isopure (also at GNC), something you can drink that isn't too milky that gets you your protein. My doc stressed the protein-after-surgery thing and everything I've read has backed that up, so I'd recommend trying to branch out and find a style/recipe that works for you. It's a bit of a job, yes, but it'll make you feel better and help in your healing as well, so well worth the effort. As for the other end, so to speak, I think you're pretty normal in that regard. liquid in, liquid out....