green

I prefer to believe in luck, good and bad, for if we are to praise a God for good luck then logic dictates that we must curse this same individual for instances of bad luck. Good luck was the so-called "miracle on the Hudson" and bad luck was that awful, awful day of 9/11. Or do we believe that Allah was watching over the suicide mission on that day???

That is awfully early. I am still in bed at that time.

It works best if the guy is on the small side and if he takes it very slow. Then I have enjoyed it but it is not high on my list of faves. A lot of foreplay is required to make it work.

Me, too. I just don't believe that it was divine intervention.

My understanding of the situation is that God had little to do with this. It was a question of luck: bad luck that the birds were there in the first place, good luck that the pilot who was flying this plane was so well prepared that he could handle an emergency.

It is too bad that God did not have other plans for all those people who have perished in other aircraft disasters.

Beth, with all the greatest respect, you put the fun back into fundamentalism. Thanks, eh. This much appreciated.

With respect to your second paragraph, and your question "how do you propose that God help the prostitute?" I am entirely unable to answer this. I would be far exceeding my talents and my authority if I were even to attempt to answer such a question. A better question would be what ideas do I, as another human being, have that might serve to improve a social problem? Prostitution may be a sin but it is also a social problem, as is gluttony. Folks who overeat fall sick with a huge variety of ailments and they die prematurely. Their weight issues will affect other people by placing a greater strain on the medical system - something which we all pay for through higher premiums and less availability of medical resources in the end - and on their families. It is difficult and painful for an individual's loved ones to watch him or her become chronically ailing or die prematurely due to gluttony. It is not nice for our kids and it is not nice for our mate. What you call sins are in fact complex issues which often do torment us and are not so easily banished by simple belief, prayer and placing a name - that of Sin - on them. Your on-going argument with Gluttony is evidence of that. This is why these subjects merit discussion and sufficient certain tolerance to permit this discussion. One doesn't have to approve of either gluttony or prostitution to want to know more about how such sins or whatever you want to call 'em persist in flourishing amongst us. And, by the way, I am pleased that the belt is working for you. I was a volume eater (glutton) and the belt was the perfect answer for me.

Re the term fundamentalists/ism: I have been told that this term refers to those Christians who believe in the literal truth of the Bible. They do, for example, believe that the world was created exactly as is described in Genesis and that the flood really did cover the entire world, etc. And many of 'em have their bags packed for their immediate departure on the starship known as the Rapture. Many of them also seemed awfully focused on the sins of others and hellfire. These are the individuals whom I think of when I use the term fundamentalists.

I have, personally speaking, grown tired of Pattygreen's continuous bleatings that prostitution is a sin. This is no way serves to solve what is one of society's problems and is thus quite counterproductive. This seems to be the trouble with many who have chosen the fundamentalist path: they have become so focused on the next life that they ignore this earthly one. Pattygreen herself has taken advantage of one of mankind's little innovations, the lapband, in order to deal with the results of her own besetting sin - Gluttony. Is it not hypocritical to choose to refuse to engage in a discussion about what measures might be available to temper, if not the causes, then at least the effects of another sin - Prostitution? By setting up measures which keep the prostitute (and her johns) safe, one permits her (and her johns) to be alive and healthy for a possible future conversion, yes, even to fundamentalism. I am certain that even Pattygreen's sin-obsessed Lord would approve.

PS. I loved the word "twatwaffle." LMFAO, eh.

This was the only reason why I found it weird. The notion of having my boobs praised fulsomely while on TV strikes me as strange. Come to think of it though, the Green ma did tell me never to make a personal comment unless it was a compliment. And, in exactly this spirit, I would like to say that I have enjoyed your posts, Jachut, MacMadame, BJean, and everyone else who has posted on this subject.

Now, that is very, very deeply weird!

We both like Obama.

I disagree. I don't think that Oprah is ignorant. In fact she makes a point of being well informed. I don't agree with her opinion concerning weight loss surgery and I suspect that I would have little interest in many of the topics that she deals with. This is because I am not raising a family, I don't cook, and I don't have spiritual or financial problems - and these seem to be the issues that she deals with on her show. Apart from the fact that we both like to read, Oprah and I have little in common, I would guess. But she is certainly not an ignorant woman.

There are additional ways in which to measure the success of your weight loss. These are called NSVs (non scale victories) and they often arrive when your scale is delivering disappointing news. For instance, you will find that your scale has gone up by two lbs but your belt can be cinched in by another notch or two. Or you have gone down a size. Actually, to tell you the truth, I am thinking about buying myself a scale. It is winter here and very, very cold. I am thin (since reaching goal I have lost a lot more weight due to a medical problem) and am feeling the cold and have been eating. I suspect that I have been packing on the pounds. Ugh! It would probably be a good idea if I could monitor myself........

Overall I lost about 55 lbs in 10 months. I was on the lower end of overweight when I got banded at the age of 57. I was always a sturdy grrl, but I started gaining weight once I hit menopause. Every year I got fatter and fatter. In this I was just like my mum. In fact I gained weight in exactly the same way she did thus proving that genetics play a role. We were both apples with skinny arms and legs. My mum would say that she looked like a pregnant spider. So did I. People would often ask me if I was pregnant even though that ship had long since sailed! lol I personally found the band a very good tool for losing weight. My problem was that I was a glutton. I ate fairly well but I just loved eating. With the band I filled up quickly and did not feel hungry for hours and hours. I did spend a lot more time reading the nutritional facts info on prepared foods - this info must be printed on everything up here in Canada by law - and was often surprised and dismayed at how hi-cal and empty of nutrients these often are. Even such items as soups are fairly empty of vitamins and other nutrients! My personal challenge became finding stuff to eat that did not require a lot of prep (because I am lazy), was healthy for me, and that I like to eat. I am lucky that my husband, who is still working, makes his own meals. We usually eat at different times. I also made a point of doing a lot of walking. It is the only form of exercise that I really like. I would combine this with doing a chore, like walking to the store in order to pick up fresh vegetables....

But, Pattygreen, aren't you curious about why people indulge in gluttony?

Oh, Pattygreen, there is just a general miasma of judgementalism that comes off your posts. I was trying to point out examples of this to you but if you don't see it, then there is no sense going on with this exercise. It will merely be destructive and painful.

Thanks for the kind words, DaMomb. I see that you have already lost a bunch. This is cool. What helped me during the journey was that I didn't weigh myself too, too often. This way I had those fabulous weight loss surprises when I did jump on the scales. And I cut way back on the carbs and fats (my personal faves, eh) but ate lots of proteins and fresh vegies. Because I am very lazy and I don't have to cook for a family, I relied on my microwave quite a bit. I ate a lot of eggs because they are lo-cal and yet rich in nutrients and I ate a lot of tuna. Stir fried vegies and eggs were another biggie. Come to think about it, I ate a lot of eggs.... lol Anyhow, I reached goal about 10 months after banding.

Oh, I would so love a ci-gar, eh.

Here is another example of your judgementalism, Pattygreen. While it is true that many unbelievers do cherrypick, not all do. Some whom I have met have studied the Bible closely; some were former believers; and some have been sufficiently curious as to study the Bible in its original languages - that is to say, ancient Greek, classical Hebrew, and, I believe, Aramaic. I am not one of these scholarly folk, by the way. I have met folks who were atheists and who became converts and I have met folks who were cradle Christians who became atheists - upon studying the Bible and belief. It is a rich and complicated world out there. Those of you who do believe in God may wish to thank Him for this very thing, this wealth of difference. I also believe that both believers and non believers can and do act in a fine and ethical fashion. We have all seen scandals where professional men of God have behaved very badly. There have been Catholic priests abusing altar boys and fundamentalist preachers unmasked for their unsavoury practices. There were the Christian nations of Europe participating in the Holocaust, not so long ago. Belief alone is not a shelter against evil acts, Pattygreen. It is very important to understand the mechanics behind human behaviour and this includes those activities which you would call Sin.

Nope, theys the mos fun, eh.

Well, Pattygreen, take this post for example. What I would have done, had I been you, is merely point out that according to the Bible, which you happen to believe is the final word, prostitution is wrong. And then I would cite the relevant passages in order that others might see this material, too. It is important, I believe, that folks read this material for themselves. As you have pointed out in one of your posts, once you read the Bible you chose to leave the Catholic church; its teachings no longer made sense to you. It is possible that other readers may have different interpretations of the relevant passages in the Bible concerning prostitution. In general, showing folks is an important tool in instruction. Statements which are not backed up do alienate adults. We are fond of thinking for ourselves. And, as has been noted before, your comments concerning this issue do not take into account that prostitutes are fellow human beings and that their Sin, as you would have it, may have complex roots and cannot exist in a vaccuum. It takes two people to make a prostitute. I guess what some of us might find frustrating is your harshness and your lack of finesse. I don't believe that God wishes us to be unkind to each other even though this is both easy and fun. It is easy and cheap for both you and I and, I suspect, for most people here to judge prostitutes; practically speaking, it is not one of our temptations. Why not substitute the term "fatso" for prostitute, eh? Afterall, glutttony is a Sin, too.....

Yep, Donna is right, best to see your bariatric doc about this one.