BJean

The preemie thing has been beaten to death (as has the abortion topic) but I gotta add that our identical twin preemie grandsons' excellent doctors explained the reasons why preemies are considered preemies even after the 5 pound mark (which as someone pointed out is an antiquated consideration for discharge from the hospital.) There are a number of problems that they can develop years after they are born. And that's why doctors and nurses in the NICU spend so much time educating new parents of preemies. They have to watch for signs of trouble long after they're taken home. And Beth, consider the source and blow it off. green, the octopussy's mental health is seriously in question because we all know it's insane to not have sex and still wind up the mother of 14 children.

Well that brings up a good question, Nancy. Since all I am hearing about the sleeve is how great and wonderful it is, why would anyone choose RNY surgery these days? I am assuming that RNY is the procedure that has been done for many years that involves bypass rather than removal, correct? I understand that you believe that you need the malabsorbtion side effect that RNY creates. Is that because it causes you to restrict the fat you eat, due to the odor problems? Or is it for some other reason? Wasa I really appreciate hearing your story. And Susan, you too. I've been here since Aug. 2006 and I've read a lot of posts by both of you. Wasa I know what a proponent of the band you were and you even helped other people who were looking for a doctor and all that. Wasa at first I hardly knew where my port was. I had to really probe around to find it. The longer I've had it, the more prominent it is. But that may just be due to my having put on some poundage in the last few months. Susan you've lost 80 lbs. and I've only lost about 40 lbs. that I can keep off. There's another 20 or so that I seem to play around with. At first I thought I had just slowed down losing, but since I have regained 20 lbs. since Nov., I think I am realizing that I will never get to 135, as I'd hoped. I too got to the point where I hated, just hated, to go for a fill. I got really tired of either having too little restriction or too much. I hit a point where I had a fill of 2.2 and it seemed to be my "sweet spot". Then something happened (who knows what) and it was too much. And I'm back into the search for a fill that actually helps me instead of causing me grief. I am like oregon (I think it was) who said she was sick and tired of thinking about food all the time. I'm either trying to work on finding an intelligent choice for my next meal, or I am obsessed with what I can eat that will taste good and stay down. It seems like that's kind of like an alcoholic who is constantly thinking about drinking all the time and having to choose whether to drink 8 oz. of gin or 4 oz. of vodka. Not a perfect analogy, but you get my drift. Frankly, I am jealous of plain's and Jachut's success.

He has the right to call the law when he has a problem. He isn't THE LAW, no matter how remote his little patch of ground is.

I sold real estate in Sierra Vista for a couple of years. It was a great business then. Army men were restationed nearly every 2 years and they often bought and sold houses. I didn't know how good I had it until we moved and I was faced with trying to make a living in a town where people didn't move very often. There were a lot of very spacious homes nestled in the foothills of that beautiful mountain range 20 years ago. I hope they found a very special spot. Remodeling is fun and frustrating. Hope theirs is more fun than frustrating!

sms, it certainly makes you wonder! The papers always like to sensationalize things - it sells. And for the judge to not throw out the case from the beginning, it might lead you to believe that the rancher was way out of line in some way. The judge might suspect that the dude has turned this into some kind of sport hunting.

Ok so she's the Queen of England and you're her most favorite Princess? Sierra Vista was a great place to live except it was so small and we had to go to Tucson for most everything. The last time we went for a visit, we were amazed at how it had grown. And a little disappointed because we thought maybe we would like to go there upon retirement. Now it looks like the cost of living is so out of sight, it might not be a good place to try to find reasonable housing by a range of mountains, which is where I'd like to spend the rest of my life. How does your sister like it? Mind if I ask what took her to Sierra Vista?

I didn't say that gadget. I said it is a big, big part of the problem. You said, "I think stories like this are a direct result of the abortion mentality. If a baby is disposable before birth, why not after birth?" I think you are quite wrong about that. If people really thought babies were disposable, they wouldn't think twice about getting pregnant and it wouldn't be such a traumatic problem for them if they did become pregnant. Babies are VERY, VERY important, no matter who you are. People don't torture babies or drown them in a lake because they think babies are unimportant. They do those things because they are desperate.

oregon: a ticking time bomb... my feelings are not that different than yours!

Oh I didn't mean to say that I'd want the sleeve surgery reversed. I meant that I might not have many alternatives if there was a complication having to do with the removal of part of my stomach. Wasa, you've had really good results from getting the band removed and the getting the sleeve surgery, right? What went wrong with the band? I am trying to figure out if it's just me who is weak and therefore a potential candidate for the sleeve, or if I really should have experienced some kind of complication from the band before it is sensible to get the sleeve. I've read posts of very successfully banded people who actually have great feelings toward their bands. They are "at one" with their band and would be devastated if it ever had to be removed. I am not one of those people. I have had a limited amount of success and I am aware of the port nearly evey moment of every day. I worry about having this foreign body in me and worry that it might be causing damage in some way. I don't think those thoughts are very conducive to success. But if I were to get the sleeve, I wonder if I would still be worried that I have a foreign body in me. I mean I would be an idiot to go through that surgery and continue to question my decision. In fact, I worry that I would feel even more frustrated than ever. (And weak) The side effect of not absorbing B-12 is no biggie. I often take subinguinal B-12 now. And as far as calcium is concerned, I have had kidney stones a couple of times in my life and so I probably don't process calcium properly now anyway. The nausea is a little scary. I hate feeling nauseated. Another problem that I can foresee is that my husband would have a heart attack if I told him I wanted to get the sleeve. He was very supportive of me getting the band, but he did question my sanity. He thought I was courageous and strong and all that, but he's not one to ever choose elective surgery for anything. I'm sure he's as disappointed in my band as I have been though.

Unfortunately this is not an isolated case. It does happen all too frequently. And it is heartbreaking. Both for the baby and for the mother who is obviously suffering some kind of hell on earth. Whether it is because she is psychotic (as someone suggested) or just incredibly scared and unable to face the consequences of having to be resonsible for another human being, the end result is the same. The poor baby is dead. Until our society puts aside the discrimination against women who become pregnant, who for some reason are not equipped to care for their babies, women will try to hide pregnancies or be in denial about the fact that they're pregnant. Some women are so distressed and even sometimes so psychotic that they commit suicide. Some women kill their kids. These are not usually the same people who are responsible, informed, intelligent and level headed enough choose to abort an unwanted child, or give it up for adoption. In the case of this poor young woman, we're not talking about every woman walking down the street who has to deal with an unwanted pregnancy. We're talking about a woman who cannot figure out a reasonable answer to the impossible situation she finds herself in. Making women out to be "killers" and heartless and bad people if they choose abortion is a big, big part of the problem.

When I lived in Sierra Vista, Arizona over 20 years ago, there was a rancher near Douglas who was doing the very same thing back then. I don't know if it's the same guy, but I wouldn't be surprised if it is him or the original guy's son. This illegal border crossing stuff is very serious business. And life in Mexico is so horrid for so many people, they would rather risk their lives and being returned to their country than stay in Mexico. Have you all been reading anything about what's going on down there? Are you aware of the drug wars, the kidnappings and the incredibly corrupt government? I am not justifying people breaking the law and entering this country illegally. I'm just trying to make the point that no one should be surprised at the number of people who cross over every day. And also that the situation is not as cut and dried as some of us would like to believe. I do not think it is fair to demonize Mexicans who want a better life. Especially since our government has essentially made it easy for them to come here and work and even come here to have their babies. We shouldn't ignore people who break the law. And our sieve-like borders make us vulnerable to terrorists. Although as tight as we would like to think our border is to the north, terrorists have entered the country from Canada as well. Dear old George Dubya Bush was all for making the illegal Mexican aliens in this country citizens. If he was smart enough to understand the gravity of the problem and want to fix it, we should be too. Standing back and throwing verbal stones at them doesn't solve a thing. Let's come up with some viable answers to solve this horrendous problem.

Wow a triathlon~! That's awesome. That's serious exercise. Good for you!! I started doing Water aerobics and that was the first step in helping me lose lbs. and get my knees working again. Before that I had 2 doctors tell me to immobilize my knee because of tendonitis. That was the worst thing I could have done. I had to go to an orthopedist to learn that. Thank goodness I got up and started moving again. That old "use it or lose it" adage is right on! oregon, so you're wanting to switch to the sleeve? Are you nervous at all about having some of your stomach removed? I thought the sleeve just restricted your stomach. I didn't know they actually cut some of it out. That makes me nervous. If I have complications with the band, it can be removed. If I have complications from having some of my stomach removed, it could be disasterous. I guess the complication rate is low though, so that's one part of the equation.

Hah! A reality show is probably exactly what she's angling for. And with all the attention she's getting, she may just get one.

Huh?? You all get real!! This is a totally silly thread. Silly, silly, silly. And fun. Don't be a buzz kill, ya'll. And damn Bamagal, you have every right to feel a little superior - what a great weight loss! (seriously)

BTW, Dfgil2p38x4 (whatever), thanks. This is lotso fun.

Yeah, and when you getcher band, and you read what all the pre-banded or newbies (dumb asses) write, you LMAO, a lot. Hence the smaller ass. I know I should be at goal because I have definitely answered "What's a PB" at least 5000 times! Who invented that term anyway?? Up-chuck-a-chunk is more appropriate.

What a load of racist crap. The reason Mexicans come across the border is because we invite them. We provide all kinds of ways for them to come here, work, and have their children become a part of our country just because they were born in this country, not because they earned the right in any other way. Our corporations employ them because they are greedy and we like the system because we are greedy. Then we bellyache and blame the Mexicans for taking advantage of the way our country encourages them to work here and have their children here. When I helped found a group in Florida that was involved in community service, one of the things that our membership voted to do was to give scholarships to gifted but poor students. Guess who was awarded those scholarships nearly 100% of the time? Children of illegals. So what are those children supposed to do, move to Mexico after we have made it so comfortable and profitable for them to live in the U.S.? Place the blame where it belongs. Squarely in the lap of our lawmakers and enforcers who dance to the tune of big money in this country. Stop blaming the people who we have invited here and start bitching to your Congressmen and women who allow it to happen. And anyone who watches Fox and never watches any of the other networks ought to think a little about calling every other network "liberal" because they aren't liberal. They are mostly moderate and Fox is far right wing and you love what they broadcast. That doesn't make them correct and all of the others wrong. It makes them extreme and it's music to your ears.

Thank you so much McMadame! I appreciate getting the "real skinny" so to speak. I noticed that you've been very successful and was wondering when you got your sleeve. Those possible complications do make me think that it is not a switch that I should take without a whole lot of serious consideration. I didn't know that there were staples involved. I should go to a seminar and see what the actual surgery involves. Congratulations on your great success. I'm sure you're feeling very good about your weight loss so far! The reason I mentioned exercise is because I have very bad knees and the kind of exercise I can do is totally low impact. The people who can kick up the exercise a bunch seem to do so much better with the band than those of us who have limitations. With the sleeve, if actual hunger isn't so much of a problem, it seems to me that you could enjoy a good deal of weight loss even if you aren't running 3 miles a day. Anybody who is totally inactive will have a problem with losing though, with either surgery. Thanks so much for helping me out on this. I really appreciate it!

Beth, you're telling me!! McMadame, that's a lot of good information. Can you tell me the possible side effects of the sleeve? There are some with the band that I never heard about until after I was banded and spent quite a bit of time at LBT and read various threads here where people were speaking of their successes as well as their problems. I had no idea that slippage was a real possibility. I didn't know that your esophogus could become enlarged. I didn't know that your stomach could erode where the band is. And I thought I had done my homework. I also believe (without any real substantive documentation) that younger people seem to do better with the band than older people. And that people who do a whole lot of exercise are far more successful than people who either can't or just don't exercise a lot. It sounds like with the sleeve, that exercise is not as much of a determining factor for success or failure.

She probably incited the riot when she announced she was going to have more babies. They may have been crazy, but nobody's THAT crazy. Well except for her.

Miztrniceguy: "i'm not snobbish, but I am a smart-ass, cuz its better than being a dumb-ass." And Mistrniceguy, you don't speak to the pre-banded because they are all dumb-asses, eh? Tapping dancer, yes there is an initiation rite. It's called surgery. And with it you get less ass and therefore you become known as a smart-ass, and can lose the dumb-ass moniker. It's a lot to look forward to.

MacM, did you have the band and then convert to the sleeve? Or have you had the sleeve from the beginning of your WL journey? I'm having a little flair up with my gall bladder and if I learn that I need to have it removed because it is diseased, then I might consider switching to the sleeve during that surgery. But I know very little about the sleeve except that one of the nurses I spoke with said that people with the sleeve just don't get hungry. They have to remind themselves to eat. Plus they don't have to be going back and forth for fills. Is all that true for you? That would be heaven for me. I have never had a loss of appetite since getting the band. It doesn't matter how much restriction I have, or don't have, my hunger is still overwhelming most of the time. I have lost weight because if I have a lot of restriction, I just can't eat very much. But I have not lost weight because of any appetite control with the band.

I agree plain. Why waste our time? :ohmy:

I agree Carrie. I'll bet it is a complicated and very interesting story and what we know is the tip of the iceberg. On the news tonight they said that she's getting death threats. Aren't people just plain weird!?

I heard that there were over 40 medical personnel that were needed to take care of the delivery and subsequent medical attention that the preemies needed. That can't be an insignificant amount that they're asking Medicaid to pay. The woman's quest to have all these children is irresponsible at the very least. However we don't want to be like some countries where the government actually controls women's reproductive decisions. Having said that, I believe it is incumbent upon the state to put limitations on how many children the taxpayers are required to pay for in an household that is depends on welfare programs as their sole source of income. I would never want children to go hungry or be without medical care. But there should be limits so that this kind of thing is discouraged. When my mother worked for the city+state run health center, there were limitations at that time. I believe the max number of children a woman could have and get additional support from welfare programs was 5. After that, she had to make do with the amount she was getting and no more from the taxpayers. It had the effect of many single parented jobless women having 5 children. Interestingly, the birth rate dropped promptly after 5. Abortion was illegal at the time. However counseling about birth control and birth control meds and devices were dispensed. Everyone was relieved when the single mothers of 5 started using those devices. It should have been, after all, primarily about the use and abuse of children.