BJean

hilarious.

oregon, was your esophogus enlarged? My doc is threatening to do an upper G.I. too. I don't want to drink that junk but I do wonder what's going on.

Susan politics and religion are topics that are loaded with emotion and bound to provoke ranting and raving. I think sometimes that the people who are doing the posting aren't as bothered by the back and forth as some who are just reading it. I don't think that the barbs and butting of heads is all that unhealthy but that's just my humble opinion. I believe that we all learn from each other and sometimes even ourselves. When we have to think about how we feel and what we believe and defend it, we can reach some interesting conclusions that might surprise us. I think most of us have been down this exact same path many times before on this thread. Not much new here. But when someone new decides to post, it gets everyone stirred up again. If you close the thread, it will probably just take a little different form but wind up in the same stalemate. gadget and patty can't allow someone to say something pro-choice without commenting and several of us can't allow them to post on this topic without giving our input as well. So here we are. Once again it gets heated and we get threatened to be shut down. I don't blame anyone for suggesting it should be shut down. Maybe it should be at this point. But I'm pretty sure that abortion will enter nearly every other thread at some point. It always does. Just like religion.

Don't get the bighead gadget. I wasn't talking about you.

Patty why are you convinced that I don't believe in God? You're really off base on making those judgements about people just because you don't like or agree with what they say.

This discussion is great. Both sides are giving good information. I wish I had heard all this before I had the band. And Susan is right... we haven't failed the band. It has failed us. That one comment has made me determined to have a frank discussion with my doctor. He implanted this thing and convinced me that it was just what I needed. What happened? Why has it been so difficult to find a fill that works? I understand Wasa's point that she got tired of living with all of the problems. But I gotta tell you that I wouldn't mind the PBs or the slime or the reflux if it worked!

I rest my case! Thanks for proving exactly what I was saying. Some people believe that they are the ones who are supposed to interpret science and the Bible and what God thinks and they'll let us know what to believe. And they'll swear it is fact, no matter what anyone else believes. And they'll do their damndest to get real graphic on you and fight you to the ground to prove they're right. Nope this topic isn't one for just getting along or agreeing to disagree. They'll have none of that. They've decided when life begins and when abortion is cold-blooded murder and what kind of murderer you are if you find yourself in the position of having to abort a fertilized egg. For them, there is no discussion or getting along about it. It is a FACT. They don't even agree that one's beliefs enter into it. They've made the decision and they expect us all to agree or we are really bad people. The fact is that really good people who care passionately about life have been faced with the decision and they have opted for abortion because it is the very best solution for everyone involved. They can't accept the belief that an abortion can be the best solution for everyone. But we can and do believe that. So I say that they should not make these decisions for the rest of us. They aren't God. They don't get to play God over our bodies. They don't get to tell the rest of us that God joined the sperm and egg because it is in his design - at least they can't tell us all those things and expect us to believe it. Our beliefs are different. So stick to knitting if your real concern is for all the unwanted children in this world. Get back to joining pregnant women with adoptive parents. Go back to counseling pregnant women that they have options. Spend your time and resources there. Preferably ALL your time. And back off and allow the majority of Americans who believe as we do the freedom to make a choice when they are faced with that necessity, without hitting them with accusations, hatred, graphic material and nasty language designed to make them feel guilty.

yes but you're a fairy and your evil laugh is bound to sound different than el diablos, eh?

Hey smsmithart I don't blame them. You look fine, grrl. Congratulations. If anyone deserves to act uppity, it is you. I think there should be a thread that newbies should be required to read that explains that the longer you have the band, the meaner you get. El Diablo, or whoever you are... I think you need to get a sense of humor. Muuaahahahahahah... *she twists her mustache and squints her good eye*

Good grief. No wonder some of you peeps don't think that Fox is right wing and think that the mainstream media is liberal. I live in Texas, dudes. I know how much some Americans like vigilante law enforcement. But we don't need to step back in time when the cowboys who had the biggest guns made the rules. You gotta understand peeps. I have Cherokee Indian in my genes. My people had to put up with your people long before Mexicans became a problem. This dialogue is good if it helps resolve the border problems and it's good that this lawsuit brings some of it to our attention. But the rancher will never have to pay a dime and I feel pretty certain that the original judge who handed down the judgement in this case knows that. He's just keeping the Mexicans off his back. One interesting aside is that you all have a problem with one of us believing some of the Mexicans' story but you have no problem believing all of the rancher's story. And I'm a bad person when I claim racism is involved?

plain since you're not using your beanie anymore can BJean have it? Please, huh, please? Can she can she can she? Pluuuueeeezzzzeeee? *she sez hopping about like she needs to go pee*

P.S. This IS rants and raves, isn't it?

coltonwade I try, I really do try to keep it impersonal. Because to me it really isn't personal. It becomes difficult when someone quotes you and then makes a remark defining what you personally believe in.

And thanks for reinforcing my point patty! "pattygreen: You're joking, rght?! First of all, How does the fact that prochoicers didn't deliberately start out to have a litter of babies justify abortion??!! What about the health (or life) of the baby that's killed by these prochoicers? That doesn't matter? You are repelled and shocked that she feels her babies are like toys and kittens, but you're not repelled and shocked that the prochoicers feel their babies are worthless, disposable, trash to be tossed or sucked out of their uterus with a vaccuum. Wow! Did you know that there have been cases where babies are heard screaming during abortions? Did you know that science proves that babies can feel pain in the womb? It's quite amazing how you would be repelled by her decision to have a large family and not be able to care properly (IYO) for them, but not repelled by the cruel, escrutiatingly painful killing of a defenseless baby! "prochoicers... feel their babies are worthless, disposable, trash..." "... babies are heard screaming during abortions?" "... babies can feel pain in the womb?" "... cruel, escrutiatingly(sic) painful killing of a defenseless baby!" "God help us all!" The fact that some anti-choice folks think that the crazy lady who now has 14 children and expects the state to help her provide for them is perfectly within her rights, tells you how much these anti-choice people really care about babies.

pattygreen are you jumping in so you can tell us what God thinks on this subject? Why am I not surprised. Whether I believe in God or my TV set is irrelevant to this issue. Because the real issue is about the freedom to choose one's medical and reproductive decisions. Interestingly, the anti-choice people have tried to convince us that this is not a religious issue. They know they can't win if they come across as trying to control everyone's religious beliefs. So some of the anti-choice people might be PM'ing you right now, asking you to back off about whether I believe in God.

You all have reinforced my point exactly. The government shouldn't be involved in the process of a woman deciding whether or not she wants or can obtain an abortion. rodriguez said, "I am sorry if our views aren't the same...but your views hold just as much power as mine do...I don't think you are wrong or that your belief is wrong or stupid. I'm not on here to say your belief is wrong and here's why. I am just here to say what I believe and hear what others believe and what their view is on the subject. Please don't turn this into an I'm right your wrong arguement because under our own beliefs we are all right :blushing: Belief can be whatever I want it to be. Let's just say that my view, my standing, ...what I like to call my belief." gadget goes on to tell her why she's wrong for believing what she believes. So which one of them are you going to vote with if someday the matter comes up on your local referendum? If you vote with gadget the decision about who, what, when, where and how a decision is made regarding an unplanned, unwanted child or a child that is most probably deformed or handicapped, is taken completely away from you. So that's why we can't "just get along" on this issue or "agree to disagree." We have one segment of our society wanting to force their beliefs on everyone. They want to control a woman's life when she finds herself impregnated against her wishes and in fact, in every case of pregnancy. That's what we're arguing about here. The narrowing it down to a simple life and death - black and white - issue is their tactic to try to convince you that what they belief is the only way, truth and light on this subject. As far as the anti-choice people are concerned, no complication or issue that a pregnant woman has, is a valid reason for her to have an abortion. The fact that they believe that is not a problem. In fact, as gadget so sweetly pointed out above, I don't agree with most late-term abortions either. But the problem is that she wants to control my right (and everyone else's) to make reproductive decisions for themselves. I can never simply agree to disagree with that. I have to fight it tooth and nail and not one link reinforcing her beliefs or her comparison of abortion to slavery is going to change the fact that she very simply wants to take away our own right to choose. She thinks her beliefs trump mine, and yours and everyone else's who happpen to disagree with her. I ask you, how can we allow her and others who believe as she does, do that to us? They use a whole lot of graphic photos and strong language and accusations to guilt you into feeling bad for the aborted babies. And that's exactly how they intend to change your mind on this issue. And if they have their way, you are not going to be allowed to have a differing belief on this subject. They're not only going to tell you what to believe, they want to pass a law to enforce their control over your beliefs.

Abortion should be legal during the entire 9 months of a pregnancy according to all the laws of the land. Abortion and plastic surgery are not things that the government should control.

Hope the physio does the trick. If not well then the painkillerz!

I've heard there are all kinds of people who wind up in medicine. Not just the godless assholes who do abortions and cosmetic surgery. I'm no expert though.

I dunno. If with the sleeve, they take out that hunger-maker thingy, that could be the answer. Everytime I think about another surgery though, I cringe and want to cry. (I am also a self-pay and that makes me want to cry too!)

Yeah Marmite, this is one heavy discussion. :thumbup: Wasa I'm on Wellbutrin right now. Don't know how OCD meds would mix wth that. But it's an interesting data point. What kind of incision is made with the sleeve? External incision, I mean. Beth I really have had too many years of dieting and journaling about food and shopping for food and making choices of food, every minute of every day (I even dream about food sometimes). :thumbup: I'm really wanting my life to be focused on the wonderful family I have and the creative projects I enjoy and the good friends I care about.

Gosh Carrie, I hope God don't smite you down for it.

green, you is in rare form today! Top of your game, sounds like to me! *toast* hee, hee, hee.

If someone thinks plastic surgery should be limited, who's going to head up the plastic surgery police squad? The same folks who've decided they're the abortion police squad? Maybe you could set up a council and have each proposed plastic surgery patient plead their case before the council chooses to grant or deny surgery? Or like with abortion, you could just try to get all plastic surgery banned. It's a form of self-mutilation and I'm sure God isn't happy with a self-mutilator. God made us the way we are and we should accept that it is God's plan for us. And the folks who actually know what God thinks are the ones who will let us know what our laws should ban, medically.