BJean

That's right Beth, no one ever heard a thing about Bill Clinton's antics. I use the term antics, but that doesn't do what either of them did any kind of justice. One reason that you hear so much about some of the Republican politicians affairs is because they are the ones who run on rethoric claiming they're all about family values and high moral standards. They're the ones who do call our attention to the immoral behavior of a man like Bill Clinton on the Democratic side and in his case, didn't stop until they pressed Congress into the impeachment process.

Yeah, Rick Perry's a nut. Not to take anything away from the Vermontonians, of course.

Help, help, somebody save me!!! Somebody start a thread on the governor of South Carolina's schenannigans so I can say something mean and crude.

I do understand the reason behind limiting the amount of money that people who are on S.S. can draw when they are still working. The huge number of babyboomers who are going to start being eligible for S.S. benefits is looming. Perhaps the alternative suggestion that some people have made, that those with a decent retirement income in place should not draw S.S. benefits, is an alternative. I think I would be in favor of that it if were an elective process not a required one. I can't name anyone I know right off hand who would choose to participate in that act of charity though. 1) most people are too greedy and 2) why give up money that you paid in during your many years of hard work? The problems that come with aging have never been adequately addressed and so many things need to be handled better. It is all overwhelming and very, very difficult to resolve. As I get older (um, just had a birthday) and as I watch our parents age and am called upon to resolve many issues with them, I realize that we really need to get a handle on all this before I get there. Taking away S.S. benefits might have sounded like a good idea 15 years ago, but today... don't touch the program, dude. As for the breakfast program, I see your point. You're right, once again I wasn't understanding what you were saying. If a program isn't taking care of the problem is was designed to fix, then it isn't doing its' job, eh? Yup, lightning may strike - I'm way too agreeable - probably that darned birthday and my continued brain and body deterioration. You know after age 30, the decaying process has begun in earnest. On that light note, guess I better get to work so I can pay my taxes and get my S.S. withholding paid in. Time is of the essence!

Gosh Joan I didn't mean to sound insulting... I just can't come up with any reason for your link with LB threads to be so fouled up. It's gotta be frustrating! I have to confess that I am the last person to ask about these things though. I'm lucky to manage simple posting. Not a computer wiz, by a long, long shot! I was simply trying to empathize. Hang in there!

Obviously totally agree with your assessment of N. Korea and China pulling the strings. If only we would all stop buying things made in China. Of course if we did that, we wouldn't have any stuff to buy. I was shocked one day when I decided to look through WalMart and Target and find Amerian-made merchandise. Couldn't find one thing in either store that was made in the U.S.A. Not a very scientific study, but it made a big impression on me. Now I always look at labels on everything. It is disappointing to realize that even things that are packaged in the U.S. are often manufactured in China or thereabouts. Yes, the middle east is a big threat to the U.S., but you do understand that North Korea is a supplier of bad stuff to them, right? Read an interesting book about Israel bombing a plant in Iran that was disguised and secretly manufacturing a nuclear weapon. Quite an intriguing story. Seemed pretty credible although it was a work of fiction. I love Israel and have always admired their strength and tenacity. I do have some empathy for the Palestinians in some ways. But if I had to choose between the two peoples right to exist in the region, my choice would be clear. Our support of Israel is complicated and extremely important, of course. What the heck? Am I actually now agreeing with plain? I need to go pump some Iron and find my brass ovaries.

Peace and love to all of youse. You peeps make my day! Seriously. As for North Korea, dudes, what's up with that? Do you think that this whole trash going on in Iran is some kind of diversion? Do you think they are in cahoots? I mean I guess we know they are to some extent, but geez, this is all rather odd. I mean if there were any way that N. Korea could somehow slide past our intelligence, and actually fire a weapon of some sort at Hawaii, what do you think would happen? Gives me goose bumps. And not in a good way.

So plain, you look at the seniors who get Social Security benefits as welfare cheats - people who simply do nothing and the tax payers support them for no good reason? As for the breakfast program, I didn't understand you completely until you clarified your comments. Thanks for that. I believe what you're saying is that perhaps it really is a program that is run efficiently, but it just isn't fair to everyone who may need it.

Well patty, since you're the only person in the country who is as positive as you are about government finances, why didn't they just call you? You've been listening to too much right wing propaganda, IMHO. I'm not saying you have some points about over-spending, but for all the rest, I'm afraid I don't have much confidence in you over the folks who are trying to actually fix things.

That put a smile on my face too, patty!

Patty, we've had a "hands-off" approach when it comes to business in this country. Are you unaware of what part THAT played in the mess that Obama inherited? And if you think that things were running smoothly and the economy was in good shape when the new president took over, you have short term memory loss. I don't have a quarrel with keeping spending within limits. But what the president has been trying to do is to save the economy. It was not improving. It was tanking. And no one knew for sure if what the politicians proposed would solve the problem or even improve it. Nearly every financial wizard in this country recommended and supported what Bush proposed and what both he and Obama agreed to. Actually the jury is still out, but what we've learned is that things were actually even worse than we thought they were. You can bellyache all you want and point fingers at the man who is currently in the drivers seat, but I believe that we should give it a chance and continue to learn from our mistakes as well as our successes. This economy is a tricky business and it is teetering a bit more everyday. All the doom and gloom doesn't do much for getting us out of this mess. In fact, confidence in our ability to recover and some confidence in our government would be a big step in improving the economy.

Oh I agree, that's a good analogy. But if all you've ever done is seen the word "airplane" you wouldn't know much about it, would you? Social Security was never, ever meant to be the total income for retired people. It was intended to supplement retirees income. The fact that people do rely on it as their only source of income doesn't mean that it is a poorly run program. We were talking about programs that are run well. Not whether they are fabulous programs or not. Of course you disagree with the breakfast program. You don't want our government dishing out money to schools for children who don't have food. It means you might have to pay more in taxes. I do see your point.

Joan there's some phantom something or other going on with your computer link up, I guess. You do know to advance to the next page at the bottom of each page, don't you?

I disagree. Congress doesn't run the programs. But they have been known to raid one program to fund another.

What a bag of wind. We had a great thing going until he came along. In spite of Jerry, Jimmy Johnson was quite a thrill. He was at O-State for a while. When he was in Miami, we saw a game and swore that his boys were hopped up on a little someum' someum' ya know what I mean? Even the fans were rabid and drunk. We took off our OU colors before we got pounded. But he was a winning coach, ya know?

patty: What was the population of this country when the founding fathers worked their magic? What was the standard mode of travel? How did they get across great rivers and the great divide? If it were only as simple as you'd like to make it, we'd all be very happy campers. It just is not that simple when there are so many people who comprise such a vast area of land. Problems come up and they must be solved for the good of the state and the good of the people. It absolutely would never get done if we all just chose up sides and donated a few bucks. If you prefer living in a country like you suggest, why don't you find a little island and live there? If you want to be an American, and you want to live here, don't you want it to be better? It won't be better if everyone just decides to stop paying their taxes. And it is disengenuous to say that everything can be run on donations. I get that you resent welfare. I get that you think that there are too many people who depend on it their whole lives. Why don't you get involved in revising the programs instead of just making the claim that they're unfair because you have to help pay for them. Someone also seemed to be suggesting that black people and Indians are primarily the ones on welfare in this country. I think that there are more white people on welfare than any other race in this country but that may depend wholly on which programs you are researching.

Just because the Congress jumps in and fouls certain programs up, like Social Security, doesn't mean that it isn't a well run program. You all sound like you're speaking with great authority. I sincerely doubt if you have actually worked on any of those programs and you probably haven't even been exposed to precisely what they accomplish. Or have you? But as for the Republican negative-speak vs. the Democratic speak-too-much, compromise is the only way anything gets accomplished.

What country in the civilized world has a system like you propose? If you can name me one, I'd appreciate it. Otherwise, I have a feeling that your idea is sheer folly. Well there shouldn't be an "otherwise" caveat - what you propose is folly - period. You've been listening to too many Reagan speeches. Even Reagan only talked the talk. He sure didn't abolish any of those programs. Same with Bush. Government's bad... deregulate everything... global warming is a myth... drill baby drill... blah, blah, blah. Why can't we achieve some sort of intelligent compromise? No one wants a welfare state, but on the other hand, if we are going to have a great country, it can't be run on donations. That's the trouble with the Republican party these days, all yapping, no substance.

The Veteran's Administration The FAA Federal Student Loan program The military FAFSA School Breakfast Program Social Security G.I. Bill National Highway System National Forest System & Parks Which of these would you eliminate completely?

Well how 'bout that, bro! My Indian name is: Sister turn the other cheek. Take that any way you want. (kidding, of course) You haven't been to God's territory - NE Oklahoma? I have no idea if it is still there, but I can't believe you haven't ventured up to Tahlequah to see the Cherokee exhibits/camp. It was built long ago and maybe it has not been maintained. I dunno. Maybe there's a casino there now. But it was interesting. And in North Carolina, there is a village that is the heart of the Cherokee Nation and I believe it is where the Trail of Tears started. That part of North Carolina and parts of NE Oklahoma are very similar in terrain. Both very hilly/mountainous, heavily treed and beautiful. If you're a card carrier, you might think about traveling to N.C., flash your card and meet some of your brothers. Texarkana climate and vegetation is much greener and more like that part of the country than where I am near Ft. Worth. Where I am, those darned cowboys are still gunning for us. This is the part of the country where I have experienced the most discrimination against Indians. Some of it is tongue in cheek, some rather serious. But that may have more to do with football than the Indian/Cowboy culture. :-)

I have no problem with religious threads or participating on them. I just get tired of religion permeating every other thread to the point of dominating the threads and getting too far afield from the original topics that the people started. I don't even have a problem with discussing religion on any thread if it is in relation to or in the context of the original topic. But highjacks happen and rather than the discusion being invigorated, it causes frustration. You're right people are hypocritical. And the Bible can be contridictory. But you're also right, we shouldn't allow that to influence our own beliefs. Sometimes that is difficult. And I'm sure you do understand that when the hypocritical people are the ones who are preaching and/or running a church, or if they are prosletyzing ad nauseum, it is going to turn people off rather than turning them on to religion. And when the church is founded on the premise that it is created to help their congreation/parishioners, but they become all about making money and building bigger and bigger buildings, it can turn people off too. Have you ever visited the Vatican, gone through St. Peter's, etc.? Ever wonder how much could have been be done for the people who are starving rather than for glorifying the Pope and Bishops? Ever wonder what it costs just to maintain the Vatican? That's a large-scale example, there are smaller ones in communities across the nation. And as I said, the televangelists are in a category all their own when it comes to raising money and using it for their own personal gratification instead of for people who are in need. I believe that we bear some resonsibility for who we donate our hard-earned 10% to, especially if we want to God to think that it is in His name.

Carrie I am thrilled for you. My 30s were probably the most fun in my life, so far. I was slim and trim and incredibly active and involved in the community, my children, my husband and just life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Not in that order of course. When I bacame fat, I was totally focused on myself. I became someone who didn't want to get out and be involved in all of the things that I had enjoyed in my 30s. It was a lousy way to live. Since I got the band, I'm back into the swing of things, a valuable citizen and although I haven't lost as much weight as I wanted to, I haven't given up. And I did stop thinking about myself and my troubles so much and consequently I am much happier (and the people around me are too!) You're smart to have learned what you have about yourself at such an early age. I am proud of you and I hope you will enjoy life to the fullest! So much of it passes by before you know it. And you wake up one morning and wonder why you wasted any time at all. Best wishes to you for your continued success on your life journey!

"All that matters is that you have focus and will power to change your life. Other than that it shouldn't matter what age you are as long as your doing this for the right reasons." Sarah, I doubt if anyone would debate that statement. However, if we have the focus and willpower to change our lives and we're doing it for "all the right reasons" what would make us need the band? I'd be interested in knowing what you believe the right reasons are. And how you discovered your willpower to change your life. Did you have that revelation before or after you got the band?

I totally understand what you're saying Carrie. And they're points well taken. I was just the opposite when I was young. Now that I'm older and have been heavy for 20 years, my knees are so shot that I can't exercise like I did when I was young. I played a lot of racquetball and volleyball and did long bike rides. I gradually stopped being so active and that's when I began to have a weight problem. Everyone is different. Lots of people were overweight when they were young. I was very small. I didn't party much when I was young either. I was way too serious. I'm over that now and as far as I'm concerned, I'm wanting to have as much fun as possible in the freakin' years I have left. It looks to me like you are going very well with the band and I congratulate you on your success!