BJean

Oh my. I really hate to hear of another person having the same kinds of problems. You hang in there and keep insisting on finding out what is causing the problems. I'm glad your GP is following up and has you scheduled for more diagnostic tests. As for your bariatric surgeon, it sounds like maybe he isn't very experienced. He couldn't possibly understand the potential consequences and still put you off like this. My heart goes out to you! Please let us know how you get this resolved. We'll be thinking about you. You too Carriemc!!

patty: "If you saw the issue of abortion as the death of a baby that is caused at the hand of it's mother, you would understand some people who are against it and why. But, all you can see is the "rights" of the woman. You are blind to the 'rights" of the child. I understand that you don't believe that when it's in the womb, that it is a living being, only when it gets through that lovely birth canal can it now be deemed a human being, but some people don't agree with you. Some people don't like murder and feel that since babies can't protect themselves that adults should do it for them. If only you liberals could see the issue from the conservatives viewpoint, but I guess their viewpoint isn't worthy in your eyes. What a shame." Patty what you don't seem to be able to grasp is that we totally understand your reasoning and your belief that an abortion is the murder of an innocent child. We know that you believe that a fertilized egg has just the same rights to life as a fully developed human being (the woman). We understand and we sympathize with your feelings on this issue. Our position hasn't nearly as much to do with whether we think that a fertilized egg is a human being or not. We know that it is "human tissue" and have no quarrel with that. What we believe is that the government has no right to make decisions for women in this country when it has to do with THEIR health and reproductive organs. It is wrong for the long arm of the law to extend itself into the vagina of a woman and make a determination whether a baby is carried to term or not. This is a personal issue - not a governmental one. There are many, many reasons why a woman might choose to terminate a pregnancy. You've decided that it is a matter of convenience and that is why you cannot understand the medical implications and risk to women that could cause such a decision to be made. We have no quarrel with the religious right to do all you can to help women and babies that may be in jeopardy in this world. But when you've set yourself up to steal away a woman's right to life, no matter what the circumstances or conditions might be, by FORCING her to carry a baby to term, then that's wrong. And we will fight you forever over this. Women are good people. They are religious people, they love god and children. They are your mother, your sister, your niece, your aunt, your cousin and your best friend. Counsel them if you feel you should, but you have no right to enact laws that place control over their reproductive organs, just because you believe that a fertilized egg or embryo has all the rights that a fully deleloped human being has. But when you understand that women will have abortions, whether they are legal or not, you will understand that your job, if you see it as saving embryos, is to be done through love and compassion and assistance, not FORCE! Force does not work.

The religious right, which has taken over the Republican party, has as its main action plan, making abortion illegal again. That is more important to them than any other single issue. They sometimes soft-pedal it so as to not scare people off, but it is what they live for... to see abortion made illegal again. They will not be satisfied or placated in any way with a bill before them than to try to tag on something that will make abortion illegal and stem cell research banned. So it is no surprise that this has reared its' ugly head with the health care bill (such as it currently is.) I'm very unhappy with what they're proposing in this bill. But I also know I will have to be patient because their lobby is far more powerful and influencial than the progressives. And as for the abortion ban, we Americans were raised on guilt, churches continue to pile it on every week, and they do all they can to make us feel guilty for wanting it to be every woman's choice. It's similar to when the Republicans decided that if we didn't support the war in Iraq and George Bush, we were not patriotic and we didn't care about the men and women who serve our country in the armed forces. They even made a lapel pin a barometer for measuring patriotism. I think Americans are waking up to all this nonsensical razzamataz, but too many people are drinking the extremist kool-aid because they think it is the Christian thing to do. Who wants to be called a baby killer? Who wants to be labeled unpatriotic? Those Republicans... they're very good at what they do.

Cleo's: "... when I went on the sleeve site I went right to complications." I haven't had the nerve to go there yet. I have seen my doctor's video of a revision to a sleeve that he has on his website. It's gruesome enough to make me take my time with this decision. I do know that you're right, it is a relatively new surgery and the jury is still out on a lot of the issues. For instance, they do remove the thing that causes hunger, but some people are now saying that eventually another part of the stomach compensates for that and you eventually get hungry again. Cleo's: "...it never took away my hunger or provided me with satiety and when it was overfilled to 3 cc's (by my idiot former doctor) I had reflux, heartburn and pain. And again, no satiety and still hungry. But what the band has done is cause me to get stuck - very painfully..." Me too! I've had lots of fills. My doc was always very conservative with the fills. But there were a couple of times that I actually came away from his office after a fill when I wound up not being hungry for a day or two. Which was, frankly, heaven! I eventually have come to the conclusion that the darned thing seems to generate hunger. Which is of course, quite a different result than most other people have with the band. And that's confusing and discouraging. No, my insurance will not pay for any part of the surgery. Unless of course, I have a hiatal hernia or other complication. And then it would only pay for that portion of the surgery - the repair. Insurance has become a double-edged sword these days. And for the life of me I don't understand how some people in the U.S. just don't get that. We need reform and I am just hoping that the darned Congress doesn't sell us down the river to the greed-driven insurance companies so that they continue to call all the shots with our medical treatments. Merry Christmas!

Well that's a new wrinkle for me. I have heard of side pain and port pain but not shoulder. Good thing I didn't know about it, cause I probably would have gotten it.:-) I know exactly what you mean about having a horrible episode that scares you so much you are afraid to eat or get a fill. Twice I had unbelievable episodes after flying. So whenever I needed to fly I took no chances. Restriction removed. Doc said he'd heard of it before but couldn't explain it. With your hospitalization and shoulder pain, I'm sure they did a floroscope or xray to be sure your band hasn't slipped. This is why I think I'm ready to get mine out. I can't face the possibility of having another horrid, painful episode so I'm afraid to get a fill. So what's the point of having the thing? This is such a dilemma. I spent so much to get it (nearly $20,000 out of pocket) and now I think I want it out because I am afraid of it. Then there's the question of getting the sleeve. It's a risky surgery, but there are so many glowing reports, it is tempting. And then there's the money thing - another $20,000 out of pocket. There are lots more ways I'd rather be spending that kind of money! But I guess my health is the most important thing I have. I hope once that problem you had fades to the background in your mind, you will be able to continue to use the band if you need it. It's sure incentive to eat healthy! Good luck.

You shouldn't still be getting shoulder pain from that surgery. 15 months? I think it must be something else - like from a pinched nerve or stress or something. When my doc was explaining that I'd get it again if I get the revision, he said it wouldn't last long, just until your body moves it out. I know you heard that it was caused from pressure from the band and if that is true, I guess it could still be bothering you. But I've never heard that before. Only that the gas during surgery is the cause. If I do get the revision I think I'll avail myself of the pain meds this time though. Last time I didn't take one thing when I got home from the hospital. I just listened to Mozart and tried to walk around the house a lot. The intense shoulder pain lasted about a week, like they said it would. Then I was fine. Keep me posted if you learn anything about what's causing yours. I'm concerned for you.

You're absolutely right. I do not know you. But I do have a pretty good profile of you from the things you post here at LBT. It's been many, many months and unless you've been insincere in what you've posted, your inner core is revealed for all the readers to know. Just as I think mine has been. Thanks for your kind prayers. I too pray that you will open your heart and mind to be a more generous person and that you will be less judgemental in your dealings with others. And I hope and pray that you and others who share your extremist views, will open yourselves to guidance from the Lord in expanding your narrow interpretation the Bible and grow to be more loving and peaceful people.

patty I hope you won't be offended if I tell you I just don't believe you.

Aw plain, I didn't get mad at patty at all. I just made an effort to explain to her why others call her names and give her labels. And at the end of my post I even acknowledged that she might be kidding. In fact, I suggested that she was putting us all on just to get us riled up. You gotta understand dude (and she does too), when patty posts lengthy pages of material that she passes off as her beliefs, she (and you) shouldn't be surprised that people think she's the one who said it. Only when she cites her sources are we able to determine that patty's only quoting someone else and not using her own brain power to come up with the stuff. And plain, won't you and patty get more and more comfortable the further we get away from the 8 years of the Bush administrations greed-driven politics... it's no different from post-Clinton when everyone blamed Bill Clinton for EVERYTHING even including 9/11, for gosh sakes. And they even conveniently ignored the fact that the Congress was Republican dominated and had, in effect, with their impeachment proceedings, crippled the Clinton administration. Of course the further we get from that, the less it comes up too. Have no fear, eventually people will start forgetting the horrors of the Bush White House and the policies that got us into the hideous messes, both with the economy and the war. And they seem to already have forgotten how every other country in the world thought we were war mongers and that we didn't care about the world as a whole or other countries specifically. Fortunately a man with a brain and a conscience is steering us away from all that. A man who refuses to prosecute the bad people in the Bush administration for their high crimes and misdemeanors, but instead wishes to mend fences and repair what is broken. People like you and patty don't want that to happen because you don't want President Obama to be right about anything. Just remember, you reap what you sow.

C'sM: Yup, that's exactly what my doc said... they must use gas to expand the area so they can see to do the laprascopic surgery. Your diaphram doesn't have feeling and the shoulder pain is deferred pain from that. I learned here at LBT that if you walk as much as you can after surgery, it helps move that gas out of your system quicker. Nancy, sure looks like you're doing well weight wise! Congrats. I am very happy for you. I know there were quite a few months that you struggled with the band and what to do after it was removed. My doc's office said that they only insurance company that covers revision to a sleeve surgery is Blue Cross and Blue Shield - through government employment. Such a deal!

patty: "Take a look back at the history of the posts targeted at me. I have been called numerous names. Fool, hater, extremist, bigot, and I could go on and on." Have you stopped to consider why you keep getting called these things? If not I will be happy to tell you. Your posts prove that you represent all of those things. patty: "I can understand how a liberal, who doesn't have any morals, would feel that a person ,who does not want to allow sinfulness to be lawful, is stifling their freedom to do the things they would like to." It obviously pleases you to make this stuff up. It is sad that you stay so cloaked in the darkness of your judgemental thoughts. I have come to understand that you enjoy this extremist way of thinking and posting your beliefs. If they even are your beliefs. If I didn't know better (and I really don't, do I?) I'd think that you are the poster child for anti-Christian dogma. You seem to be trying to get people to think bad things about Christians. And I have noticed that over the months of reading your posts, you have become more and more extreme and more judgemental and less open to reason. It's almost as if you are learning how to get people stirred up and you thrive on it. It is a shame too, because it seems sad and pathetic that you would go so far to influence people to distrust and disrespect Christians. I don't know why you do it. But I have wondered if you and other extremists do it purely for entertainment and shock value.

Glad the revision is working out for you Nancy! I knew you'd had lots of problems and were thinking of getting it but didn't know it had been done. n How long ago did you have it? My doc said that he doesn't do a restrictive diet before revising to the sleeve but there is the normal clear liquid diet afterwards with gradual adding of mushy, etc. He said you still have the shoulder pain afterwards like with the band but he only keeps you in the hospital for a day - a little longer than the band. C'sM: You're one smart lady!

Btw, the nurse and I talked for a long time and she said that when you have the sleeve you have to eat 5 times a day. The dietitian in their office gave me such a hard time for trying to eat 5 times a day. She said that with the band you absolutely MUST stick to the 3 meal plan. When I related that to the nurse, she said that she is aware that the dietitian believes that the 3 meal a day plan is for everyone, but they have learned that some people do much better if they eat more often. Those are the people whose band does not curb appetite. Nothing seems to be written in stone with these things and we are all different. When we come in contact with someone who is too rigid in their thinking, we have to continue to listen to our bodies first and foremost.

Please don't let some of us who have problems create any for you. It sounds like you're doing well and I'm sure you'll continue to do well. Plateaus are not unusual even for bandsters. When I was successful, I hit a couple of plateaus and thought that might be it for me. Then in a couple of weeks I'd drop another pound or two. When we're in the prep stage and in the liquids and soft and mushy stages after getting the band, we lose so fast that we're hoping that pace will continue. But it doesn't and that's normal. Hang in there and don't worry too much. Some of the bandsters here think their band is their best friend and they would be devastated if they had to get it removed. I'm hoping you're in that group!

It's too bad that we have to learn so much of this through our own experiences. It would be nice if the medical profession would give nutrition, exercise and wellness as much study and attention as they do to medication and surgical procedures to remedy every symptom they see. C'sM: I'm impressed that you are getting yourself healthy, taking charge of your life and not depending on the lap band or medications or ridiculous diet extremes to take care of yourself. Good for you!! Btw, I did meet with my doc today and to get revision surgery to the sleeve, it will be $22,000 cash out of pocket. Doesn't seem like such a reasonable solution now. He does think that my band has either slipped or I have another hiatal hernia and wants me to get an upper G.I. Lots more thought and research for me.

P.S. I'm afraid that calling your post funny when we all know it's exactly how you view "liberals" doesn't earn you a pass on this.

patty no wonder you post the outlandish and hateful sounding things that you do. You believe that trash you posted about liberals vs. conservatives? No wonder you are so disrespectful of anyone who isn't a conservative. You obviously think those who don't share your ultra-conservative views are obviously that definition of liberal. Get this: Conservatives are book burning, gun-toting, war mongering, greed driven, misguided, women hating, homophobic, holier than thou nincompoops. How does that feel? It is no more outrageous that the hateful garbage you just posted. This type of posting is certainly not conducive to an enlightening and informative discussion of the topic of health care. It is divisive and serves no purpose other than to make one feel superior. You represent such a dichotomy of religion and whatever the opposite of religion is. Two opposed classes of real and unreal.

patty: "The ins. companies should be able to sell their plan, and if you are not comfortable with the one they offer, you have a choice to shop elsewhere or to not have insurance at all." That's downright hysterical. What part of monopoly do you not get? The rates do not differ that much nor does the coverage - unless you are quite wealthy and you can afford to pay out the nose for a decent policy. What most of us have is about the same across the board: extremely expensive health insurance that doesn't cover everything, has a cap on it, tells us which doctors we can see, which hospitals are acceptable, which medications we can buy (usually the generic, unless it's not being manufactured) and the negative list goes on. You can thank the insurance lobbyists for this indirectly and our government certainly has played a role. But we are to blame for allowing ourselves to be sucked into this scheme that started way back when it made sense to have some insurance coverage for catatrophic medical events. We jumped on that bandwagon and it later evolved into HAVING to have medical insurance to be seen by a doctor or admitted to a hospital. The insurance companies saw an opportunity for untold wealth and seized it. They're no different than the tobacco industry that got smart and made cigarettes more addictive. It's all about making money. And we the people have been sucked in by it all. And we had absolutely no protection from the government from the beginning. Now the people are making demands about our health care system, like they did with the tobacco industry, because it is so out of control. We are insisting that the government become involved because as individuals we have no chance of making a difference. If only it were as simple as just changing health care insurance companies! While that may have been the case in 1950, it is certainly not the case today.

patty: "440,000 people die annually from cigarette smoking, and the solution to it is very easy. Outlaw it like they do other things. That is 9X more than those without health insurance, yet noone gives a crap about those people who die. Absolutely NOTHING is being done about it. They force us to wear our seatbelts in the car, but they can't take away the cigs? And what about alcohol related deaths annually? There are so many people who die in the country from all sorts of things, that doesn't mean that the national government needs to make sure that these deaths don't happen. It doesn't mean that the feds need to take on the problem. To take on all that responsibility would be impossible. The national government was not created for these reasons." So what are you saying, patty? You WANT the Feds to control everything (taking away their cigarettes and your twinkies to save lives) or NOT ("all that responsibility would be impossible"). Can't you make up your mind? Or are you having a giant argument with yourself? patty: "I care about everyone. Jesus said, 'The poor you will have with you always.' This is just life." Sounds like you've interpreted that Jesus quote to mean that we shouldn't bother with the poor. They're here to stay and we can't be saving them all. Shucks, it's just too bad about them, but they don't work like everybody else so they deserve what they get. Jesus didn't mean that. You've taken something out of context to make your point. Jesus cared deeply about the poor. Far more than the rich people. You suggested that we give all the money that would be spent to the corporations. That's a telling statement, to be sure! At least you're open about your non-charitable views.

4pyes, I'm impressed with your attitude, especially after all you've been through. I get so tired of hearing people be judgemental about overweight people. No one has a clue why someone eats so much that they become obese. No one does it because they want to be fat and unattractive. And many of us have more discipline and patience than they can imagine. Every obese person I have ever met got there through doing nearly every diet in the book. Those diets took a ton of discipline. So what happened? I was listening to a public radio station yesterday and a woman (doctor) was being interviewed. She has done significant research and wrote a book that has just been released. I wish I could remember the name of it. I was driving and couldn't write it down. In it, she says that people should never diet to lose or gain weight. Diets don't work. That's not news, really. Most of us know that for a fact. But the part that I appreciated hearing was that she has learned that for a person who is overweight or underweight, it is one of the worst things in the world to eat to either lose or gain weight because often the result is that it wrecks the natural matabolism. She went on to say that we should all only eat to stay healthy. If we focused on our health instead of our appearance, our appearance would be what nature intended. And that we absolutely must learn to accept that we are not all designed, genetically, to be the weight that the insurance companies have decided is healthy for everyone. And she said, there is no magical weight for height that should be accepted by society. Some of us are meant to be big teddy bears and some of us are meant to be giraffes. The worst thing we can do to our bodies is to fight our genetic makeup. That is what has put most of us in peril with being obese and developing late onset diabetes, hypertension and a host of other medical complications from obesity. And there are just as many problems that arise from dieting to lose weight. Anexoria and bulemia can ultimately kill you. And underweight people have a shorter life expectancy than overweight people. Listening to her made me wish everyone in America could take lessons from her on not judging others and accepting people and loving them no matter what size they are. Listening to her helped me put everything into perspective. It's too late for me. My metabolism was wrecked from extreme diets from the time I was 42 until I got the band. Long liquid fasts, church encouraged week-long fasts, the Stillman Water diet, the Beverly Hills Diet, the Blood Type Diet, the Body Type Diet, the Adkins Diet, the West Point Diet, the egg diet, the cottage cheese diet, Jenny Craig, Nutrisystem, Weight Watchers, Overeaters Anonymous, diet pills from the weakest over the counter ones to the strongest amphetamines, the 1000 calorie doctor prescribed diet, a month-long horrible experience at a fat camp when I was 48, and probably more that I can't even remember. You might think I'm making all that up. Well I am not. I've done each and every one of them and some for extended periods of time like the Adkins Diet. Some for only a week or two, like the cottage cheese diet. All of them resulted in weight loss. Losing the weight was not the problem. The weight I regained when I started eating a normal diet was the problem and what got me where I am today. I'll bet many of you have the same story - although I'm older so probably just did more years of it. Americans have it wrong and we're led by a group of doctors, insurance companies and an entire multi-billion dollar industry selling us on all those weight loss gimicks. We need to learn something from all these colossal failures. We need to understand that we're not all model material and accept it. Models are unique, not the norm. That's why they get the big bucks. Doctors are beginning to understand how wrong they've been to put us on 1000 calorie diets instead of encouraging healthy foods and exercise. As for insurance companies telling us what we should weigh, well it's one more instance of how the insurance companies rule our lives and we're stupid for letting them do it to us! We need to form a movement for health. We need to get the word out that dieting leads to bad health! We need to focus on extending our lives through healthy behavior. And healthy eating would probably help with getting us off all the antidepressants and certainly off all the meds we take because of a lifetime of unhealthy dieting. Ok, I've gotten carried away, I admit it. But if this lady doctor's book becomes a runaway best seller, just remember you heard it here first. LOL

You are so totally right on!!! There has always been this element in our society, but the Bush legacy is that they have been empowered and emboldened by Bush's administration's and the Republican dominated Congress's fine tuning the rules and regs that allow them to run roughshod over everybody else in this country. And their freakish public relations campaigns that make outrageous claims about Democrats and our President and the current Congress only adds fuel to their fire. People always tend to respond to their scare tactics and fear mongering. From the Richard Nixon era on through the Reagan years, through the thorough bashing of Carter and fiasco of how they used government resources to trash Bill Clinton from the moment he took office, they have proven themselves to be willing to do ANYTHING, whether it is illegal, immoral or just plain wrong for the country, to further their personal agendas. And I am constantly amazed at how regular folk have fallen for their dishonest claims over and over and even jump on the bandwagon to become full-fledged followers. My only hope is that, even though it is a very slow process, Americans will continue to see them for what they are. The current president has the power to change it and set this country right. I always worry though that power is corrupting and that he may fall into the abyss of personal gain above all else. It is very hard to avoid and although he gets some of the most criticism of any past president, I believe that Jimmy Carter has personally been able to go on to actually do some good things for our country and for the entire world from time to time. I believe there is hope.

Cleo's - I remember reading posts like yours when I was early into having my band. I was convinced that they just weren't doing it right. I was banded in September 2006. Now I understand how your experience can happen for anybody. There are some people whose bodies and temperament are well-suited to the band and they become extremely successful. Then there are the others. They come in many shapes, sizes and ages. It's frustrating to see a post like yours and many times in the past reading people go off on you claiming that you're cheating, not exercising or other things that they've decided you've done wrong. (I'm not talking about the sweet post that minimeme just posted.) We're not all made the same way and it isn't surprising that we don't all have the same experiences and successes or failures. My story sounds so much like yours though, it's amazing. My family has watched me work very hard at doing everything right. They've watched me eat slowly, only eat certain things and still suddenly leave the table in extreme pain. Sometimes what has never been a problem before, now suddenly at one meal can cause so much pain that it is nearly unbearable. I've had more than one evening at a nice restaurant with friends or business associates, that wind up with me spending most of the evening in dire pain in the bathroom, praying that I can just vomit and get it over with. It isn't as if I don't know what to do. I've been through this for years. Getting something stuck is just so random and my guess is that often it is caused from stress and/or adrenalin from the situation. That's the only variable that makes much sense. Having a prosthesis that is causing me pain and isn't helping with my appetite or weight loss, seems to me to be a worse case situation. And that is why I am seriously considering getting it out and possibly resvising to a sleeve. I just don't think that the lap band is healthy for me. For others, it is the perfect answer. And they are to be comended for being able to make the thing work for them as it is designed. But all bandsters should be supportive of each other whether we've been successful or we haven't. Because there are no guarantees that one day, they won't face the same problems that you and I have today.

It seems to me that for the right wing extremists, although they claim it's all about being Christian and God's plan, it's actually quite the opposite and is all about greed and self-aggrandizment.

Right wing extremists' idea of unnecessary waste and mine are obviously quite different. The right wing extremists think that corporations should go unchecked and allowed to be run however they can to make the most possible profit. It's the American way - capitalism at its' finest, eh? Don't put restrictions on the companies in America - don't allow people to sue doctors or hospitals either. Allow them to operate however they can to make the most profit. All across the board they choose the health and well-being of companies over the health and well-being of individuals in America. Right wing extremists don't think that corporations should even pay their fair share in taxes. They don't think that a negligent doctor should be held financially accountable for a wrongful death or maiming that he committed. And all because they think it will spare them from having to pay more taxes. Right wing extremists have it all backwards in this country. Our government should be in the business of helping its' individual citizens be safe. Not just by protecting us in times of war, but also in the times when our lives are at stake from disease and famine. And that necessarily includes jobs and health care. Corporations should have the opportunity to form and make money and grow and make a profit. But they shouldn't be allowed to get tax breaks and incentives and be allowed to take advantage of their employees without any government oversight to keep them honest. Corporations should want to pay their fair share to help keep this country healthy. Unfortunately many of them become too greedy. There must be some transparency and oversight and some fairness if we are all going to enjoy living in America and be safe and healthy. We should ALL enjoy the benefits of building not only the best military in the world, but also the best health care in the world. And we should be treated fairly in our jobs and we should be treated fairly by our banks. These are the things that good Christian Americans should want and expect from their government.

123crod, if we had plenty of discipline, why would we need a lap band? I, like many others, thought it would help curb my appetite. For me, it's only made it worse.