BJean

patty: "Since liberals don't care about these issues in the bill enough to demand they are changed, they probably would rather have people live together in order to save money than get married." Now that's just assinine.

patty: "Brown won, becuase he wasn't a democrat, and because he understands what the people really want." Well that is reassuring! I was afraid that he won because the Republicans came into the state and put out a bunch of lies about his opponent and scared everybody to death. If it really is because people want to go back to how it was under the Republicans, then it was a good and honest win. *she walks away scratching her head*

Oooh Blondie, you really let us have it didn't you? Well that was a cool post because it points out very clearly that you do not know what you're talking about when it comes to the proposed health care bill. You've bought into the stuff the Republicans are marketing, hook, line and sinker. The government won't be running health care if it passes. But that is just a small part of the laundry list of things you're goofed up on. You haven't heard one good thing about changing health care because you've closed your mind to it. You've listened to those who oppose it and haven't listened to those who support it. Because if you did, you wouldn't be saying some of the incorrect things that you said. And not only have you not listened to anything that is supportive of changing the health care industry, you don't seem to realize the reason behind the fat cats in Washington lobbying against the change. You need to listen to both sides of the argument and become better informed about what a change could mean to the regular citizens in the U.S., instead of just worrying about the insurance companies, pharmacuticals and hospitals profits. Or are you in the health care industry and know everything and are just joining in the job of misleading the public because you stand to profit from it?

When I have accused you of being arrogant it is usually in relation to your having made a generalization about someone's religious beliefs. You've declared that liberals are immoral and only care about themselves... or you've declared that the president isn't a Christian... or you've decided that a person isn't worthy of receiving a donation of food because they smoke... or other arrogant thought processes that you post here. As for all things spiritual and you - I think you are on a quest to learn more but you just don't realize it. On the surface you seem to believe that you have all the answers because God has told you so through the Bible. But what I've said is that you're not done yet. And until you set aside the thoughts that you have the answers and that you are equipped to form your own personal mission to make people aware of what they should be believing, you won't get it. There is a passage in the Bible that tells us that very thing. In fact, there's more than one. But I will allow you to find them for yourself because that is what God wants for you.

patty: "You amaze me. You talk about the ignorance of those who don't agree with you, your fellow Americans, as if you are the most itelligent person alive. It's quite interseting how you call me arrogant because I believe I have the 'spiritual answers' when it comes to the bible, yet you can't see your own arrogance in thinking you have superior intelligence in comparrison to other Americans who disagree with you." I have no doubt that you are amazed by me. Many are. As they should be. Har! I was talking about one thing and you turn it into something different. I wasn't talking about people that don't agree with me. I was talking about people who are gullible enough to believe the lies, misrepresentations and right wing rehtoric that the Republicans come up with. I have no problem at all with honest, real, genuine Republicans who stand for honest, real and genuine conservative issues. And I never claimed that they aren't as smart as I am. In fact, I have never claimed to be smart. Except in jest. What I was addressing with my comments is how the extremists who have taken over the Republican party use all kinds of subterfuge to win an election or an argument and that people fall for it. They jump on the buzz words, they believe stuff no matter how outlandish. That's pretty stupid, even if it is fun to scrap and fight and put down the opposition. Because what they're fighting for is often not in their best interests. That's what I was talking about. And for some reason you went off in a different direction. Hmmmmm *she walks away scratching her head*

Uh yeah, because the Republicans didn't have anything to do with the disparity between married and single taxpayers. Uh huh. That's right. Sure. Truth is, leave it to the liberal - it makes since - because they are actually the ones who have to follow the Republicans and get things back on track after the a Republican congress's slide into the abyss.

Ok, then why don't you set the example and stop doing it yourself?

Yeah and people voted for Sara Palin so I do get that. But you started out by saying that "WE" don't want it and then you changed it to "THEY" don't want it because you probably realized that one election in one state does not provide a national referendum for anything. But you might be right in November. Perhaps all the Democratic bums will be thrown out. Then what are you going to do? Does this mean that the Republicans will actually come up with any progressive solutions to our long-time problems? Since they're nearly guilty of not fixing any of it when they were in control, I have no hope of that. So you're right. If the Republicans gain control of Congress, we won't get any of the things that will make this a better country (and we sure have a long way to go for it to be the best place to live.) We will get back to the government you like, which under the Republicans actually means, I dunno, what? It seems to mean MORE government incentives and tax breaks for the behemouth corporations, more help for wealthy Americans and the rich will keep getting richer and the number of poor people in this country will grow. Yeah, congratulations on this big win. I am sure that all Americans are rejoicing today and in hardly any time at all things will sit squarely back on the shoulders of the fair and even-handed Republicans. I mean after all, like you said THEY are the party of high morals, right? Can you say, with no doubt, that they ran a good, clean, fair campaign in Mass?

Anybody watch the campaign in Mass? Was it a fair race? Did both sides get a little dirty or did one or the other side get really dirty? Did the Republicans do what they usually do, which is come up with some outrageous lie, broadcast it in ads and phone calls to such an extent that people believe it? Or did the Republican candidate win it on the issues? Or did the Democratic candidate lose it because she was really that bad? I haven't been tracking it. Just wondering if any of you did.

Yup I have to agree. He's too dumb to be a real wolf. Jackass's clothing fit him to a tee!

You tell 'em bob!

You mean that beeotch is still at it? I cannot believe that the extreme right wing Republicans have been using lies for so long and people still want to believe them and still join their fight. It's been going on at least since Nixon (before that I was too young to attest to it) and continues today. There must be nothing that can be done to make people understand, laugh and turn their back on them. People latch onto buzz words that sell units. Even when those units are not needed or wanted. Good post, Cleo'sM

patty: "Only God knows his heart and if he is saved or not. I can only judge what I 'see', which is his fruits. If he confessed with his mouth and asked Jesus to save his soul and he has repented, I am glad. I do not know. Sometimes I tend to think that he professes the Christian faith because it is good for his politics. Only God and he knows for sure. Because I don't, I pray for his soul." If you know this, then why would you declare that he is not a Christian? Why are you judging his faith? You say it is because of the things he does politically that you do not agree with. That does not mean that he is not a Christian even if you believe it to be so. And it is hateful and arrogant and judgemental for you to declare that our President is not a Christian (of the highest order) because you do not know everything and you certainly do not know God's plan, because that is obvious. Let me ask you how you feel if I say to you: I doubt very seriously that you are a Christian. Your words belie the fact that you claim you are a true believer and are born again. What we can use as proof that you are not a Christian is by reading what you post here at LBT. So patty, you're not a Christian even though you say you are.

How interesting Cleo'sM. I was present at a Schlafly/Bella Absugg debate. (I don't know why I can't mentally pull up the spelling of Bella's last name - I'm old I guess.) Absug was a soft-spoken, self-assured lady who knew what she was talking about. Schlafly was a pompous, seething, hate monger who accused her debate opponent of wanting terrible things to happen to American women. Schlafly is one of the most venomous debaters I've ever witnessed - in public. (I don't consider this forum all that public since it panders to a particular segment of the populace.) I worked for the Attorney General in Richmond when ERA was such a hot topic. I heard both sides of the debate ad nauseum! The women who worked supported the ERA because they knew, very personally, what it was about. The women who were against the ERA were stay at home moms who bought the crap that Schlafly was selling. And of course there was no end to the conservative men who fought it because they were so threatened by it. And why? You ask why did people fear the ERA so much? Because they were obstructionists who didn't care about the rights of women and they were willing to make stuff up that was shocking and alarming, but had no real basis in fact. People always tend to be swayed by shocking and alarming so it fell by the wayside. I continue to be shocked and alarmed everyday by the incredible bias and ignorance of Americans. I'm shocked at how easily they are swayed by misrepresentations and untruths. And we all pay for their ignorance.

This has become less of a debate than a peeing contest. It's a colossal waste of time. Anybody wants to seriously discuss something I'm listening, but right now it's not worth my time.

Yeah, I see what Phil said here. And other on another thread you're accusing people who support the health care plan of just living together instead of being married because they have no morals. Silly pi$$ing contest.

patty don't presume to say what we believe about any so-called "anti-marriage agenda" on the part of the president. And that we would just live together if things aren't good for married people in the legislation that passes. That's condescending and wrong. And stop saying that the people don't want the health care proposal. YOU don't want it, I'll give you that. You and blondie will dig up everything that you don't agree with and post it here, yeah, I'll give you that. But we want this president, we elected him and we are demanding that he make the changes that we need. You all had your glorious moment in the sun when Bush was the president, now you need to let this man do his job. Yeah, I expect you to bellyache, like we did about Bush, but no, I don't expect you to think you can run him out of office or undermine his authority just because you don't like him or the progressive plans he endorses. Frankly, many of those who voted for him are disappointed that he doesn't just sit back, take names, and kick some booty to get everything WE want pushed through congress. Oh yeah, that's right, Democrats don't work that way - it's the Republicans who do that. President Obama is the most moderate president that I've ever known. You should be counting your lucky stars. With a Democratic majority in congress and a Democratic president, things could be happening so fast it would make your head spin. But he is doing all he can to be fair to EVERYONE, not just the people who voted for him. So if you were smart, you'd try to find ways to work with what you've got instead of spending the next 3 years beating your head against the wall.

You're getting into a contest, ninny ninnie nah nah, about who called the other person the most bad names. I don't think you should get people riled up enough that they go back through your posts and bring all the examples to light. It's just not prudent.

Bull. That's no response or rebuttal at all. There are a majority of the people who are fully aware that the president and much of congress are working their level best to come up with a change in our health care system - BECAUSE THE PEOPLE WANT IT! You keep saying that the president is doing something that people don't want. Well that's poppycock. People do want it. YOU don't want it but that has nothing to do with the rest of us who are thankful that we have a president who is trying to do what we need in the United States of America. And the obstructionists are yelling to the rooftops that the American people don't want it. It's merely a ploy in their fight to keep us down because they, like you, seem to think that if they say it loud enough and long enough, others will believe them. Some do, but it's to their detriment that they believe it.

patty: "My apologies. It was mostly reps who voted 'yes'. About half of the democratic reps were on board. But they got the okay to go to war from all of them with a majority vote." No, they did not get the okay to go to war from all of them... a majority vote is the majority of them, not all of them. The people who were against the war continued to be against the war and have certainly been vindicated by the truth coming out. In fact, they have proven by their records that they had guts and were smart enough not to go along with the intimidation tactics of the Bush administration. patty: "It's nothing like the HC bill and practically ALL the reps vote no and they need to scramble for every single vote to get what they want." Well it is a lot like the HC bill in that in order to pass it they will need a majority. It is nothing like it in that the president is not in collusion with his cronies to get something passed that he and they will financially benefit from. And furthermore, lives will not be lost because of it.

phil: "I`m hope I`m wealthy enough one day to be able to fly a huge flag from my ocean front mansion and be able to vote Republican. Instead, we have these dumb (white) Joe and Joele Six Pac that are just inbred, slack jawed, mouth breathing idiots that are happy as a pig in crap driving their 10 year old pick up truck (with gun rack) and vote anti-gay- anti abortion, and pro-guns. The Mass`s are truly Ass`s! " That's very colorful language, phil. And pretty accurate. It never ceases to amaze me that some of the less educated, lower middle class citizens can support and vote for someone who's working to keep them in their place.

patty I don't think you really want to get into this kind of contest. First, it solves nothing and second, you lose.

Cleo'sM: I love the idea of patty trying to pull up all the names you've called the opposition. Then we can all have a field day posting hers. Trust me, she'll get the award for the most inflammatory, outrageous, hateful words used in these discussions about not only political parties but even in the threads that wind up being about religion. Hey, I'll bet I can even compete in this contest, eh?

One way to explain it to you, patty, is for me to use your own post. Yes, the Democrats are involved in party politics and they wheel and deal. Republicans do too. That's how stuff eventually gets done in Washington. Negotiations, deal making, bargaining, etc. It isn't always pretty, but it has become the way to get change in Washington. But the difference is that Republicans lie to the public. They don't tell the truth when they want to go to war. They lie about the past even though we were all alive to remember what they did. In campaigns they create letters and petitions that are based on lies - and then they sign them and mail them and publish them in newspapers as an ad. They lie when the truth looks better. And to clarify because I do respect some Republicans - not all Republicans are lyin', cheatin' homewreckers, who will stop at nothing to get their way. Just some of them. You know it's like some Christians are obnoxious, hell fire and brimstone, my way or the highway folks and others try to emulate Jesus. So it's never good to generalize and I am guilty of doing just that. But the proof is in the pudding and the clowns that are running the Republican party right now are mired in pudding like mud.

And someone said the other day that there are some moderate Republicans still around. I know that it's true. And it is a crying shame that they have been ignored and cast aside by their own party.