BJean

patty: "Let me just say that the majority of abortions are done because of inconvenience for the mother. Not incest or rape." That is right wing extremist rehtoric. You do not know why the majority of women choose to have an abortion. Please refer to my previous post.

patty: "You can not murder a life that God has created. period. Only God can take life from mankind. Him alone." Murder happens all the time. Capital punishment is murder. God is not involved. You do not understand the concept of Jesus dying for our sins. You have distorted it for your needs. You say you're a sinner and you accept that because you know God will forgive you. Well, murder, rape, incest, coveting your neighbor's wife, stealing, being mean to your neighbor (that one's mine) are all forgivable sins, by God. Now you just need to step down from your throne and allow God to do his job.

"arrogant" the word du jour, eh?

patty: "No. It doesn't matter what they believe or what their church doctrine puts forth, if it doesn't line up with the word of God, it is wrong." But that is the whole point. Their beliefs and doctrine align totally with the word of God.

In my part of the country, which is probably one of the slowest to feel the impact of national problems, the banks aren't lending money. They've counseled the appraisers that they are only willing to loan the assessed (for real estate taxes) value and even then will make the buyer jump through hoops to get that. I understand why they might want to be cautious, but what our economy needs is for people to borrow and the housing industry to bounce back. In our neighborhood we have buyers. They are perfectly willing to pay what the homes are worth (based solely on cost to build plus improvements - no inflation or appreciation considered) but the appraisers won't value the houses as they should because nothing has sold in the last 8 months. So here we sit in our pre-owned homes, unable to move up or down because the darned banks won't play fair. Our tax money bailed them out and now they're slapping us in the face like this. If the banks were willing to make home loans, the economy would start moving again in the right direction - at least insofar as housing is concerned. This is something that our president should get involved in since the congress is stuck, as usual.

God is great, God is good. Now who's going to take care of the baby if some 9 year old girl is raped or some 13 year old girl is raped and winds up pregnant from it? The only answers are the parents or adoption. But what of the 9 year old and the 13 year old? Too bad that they are so stupid to have been raped, eh? Because that little girl's life will not only be affected by the horrible, horrible act of the rape itself, her little immature body will suffer horribly from going through a pregnancy that she is neither physically or mentally prepared for. You'll never convince me that God plays a part one way or the other in conception, rape, murder or childhood pregnancy. I believe we should all do our best to live as saintly as we can, but God will love us and comfort us and be on our side, no matter what we choose to do in a situation that makes abortion a necessity.

Well my goodness, you don't have any problem straightening people out who have differeing views from yours, eh? And here I thought I had a monopoly on that. You seem to think you know a thing or two also. Amazing. (I'm kidding.) Of course you have every right to your own thoughts on the issues. I merely voiced my own opinion. You don't have to get so defensive. I'm sure you read stuff and have exposure to medical treatment just like everybody else. And of course you've read the proposed legislation and know why it would be so bad for all Americans. But the last thing I think I can do, or want to do, is crawl inside your head. It is quite enough to read your big, blue emphasized print. You say you understand the need for changing the health care system. I believe you have elsewhere even given some examples of people you know who would like to cross state lines to get better insurance. But you don't want THIS particular change. So enlighten me. Tell me exactly what your team proposes to improve things. Yeah, I know. Whatever it is, don't touch the insurance industry except for possibly allowing people to go across state lines to get it. Why do so many people think that it is quite acceptable for the insurance industry to manage their health care down to the very last pill they need? Blondie: It really does just bite huh? Yeah, well that's enlightening. What do you want congress to do?

She's gonna be right there with Glenn Beck who admits he's just entertainment - not a real news reporter or legitimate commentator. It'll be nice to know where she is instead of worrying that she's out shooting some beautiful beast in the wildes of Alaska. Or shooting her mouth off when she should be working, like she was supposed to when she was Governor. Now we know where she's shooting her mouth off and we can laugh at her like we do Glenn Beck and the other mindless tools at Fox.

We were lied to. Congress was lied to. The Bush administration manipulated people and misrepresented intelligence reports. They used fear to get Congress to go to war. They called people unpatriotic who didn't go along. Your post is propaganda, patty. We have not accomplished what we were told we were seeking. We killed thousands of innocent people. We razed the infrastructure of Iraq. By doing so, the terrorists gained sympathy and support from people who had not given them support in the past. The terrorists have become stronger, not weaker. They are a bigger threat now than ever. We allowed a man (men) to take over our country, take away some of our very cherished basic freedoms and yet people still believe the lies. And now those same people who were sucked in by the fear mongering and lies, are doing all they can to undermine the new president . A president who was elected by a resounding outcry of Americans who did understand what had been going on. My God this country is a scary place.

Different people have lifted verses from the Bible since its' inception and have eventually developed church doctrines based on them. Seventh Day Adventist is just one example of that. Christian Science is another. There are hundreds more, perhaps thousands. Yet you believe that you can read the Bible and have all the answers. In fact, you believe that so strongly you go about telling everyone exactly what is right and what is wrong based on your beliefs. And you make judgements about everyone else based on those beliefs. Your faith should be a personal relationship between you and God. But you preach from this Lap Band pulpit. And the part that is so distasteful to others is that you don't take responsibility for your beliefs, your Biblical interpretations or your faith. Instead you claim that you get your authority through the Bible and that it is literally God's word. You make broad statements, generalizations and judgements and claim that YOU are not saying it that it is God who is saying it. It doesn't matter what any other person believes or what any church doctrine puts forth based on the Bible. If their beliefs differ from your very specific, single-minded beliefs, they are wrong. And if one is not "born again" they're going to hell. We would be delighted if you had the ultimate answer to all life's questions. Unfortunately you do not. But the most unfortunate part is that you know not that you know not. I believe that you think you are on a mission from God here but I believe that you are actually on a quest for higher learning. I hope that you will eventually open yourself up to expanding your spirituality and that you won't have to depend so much on this blind faith that keeps you nailed to the ground.

I found this interesting dialogue excerpt today. Thought I'd share it since it relates to some of the debates that we've had about politics and war in the U.S.A. Note the date. Nazi Leader Herman Goering, interviewed by Gustave Gilbert during the Easter recess of the Nuremberg trails, 1946 April 18, quoted in Gilbert’s book, Nuremberg Diary: Goering, “Naturally the common people don’t want war… but it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship.” Gilbert: “There is one difference. In a democracy the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars.” Goering: “Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the biding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.”

Bob if I disagreed with everything you say, I'd probably give you a hard time about it, but you do make some interesting points and you bring another viewpoint to the discussion. It's all good!

P.S. We do not consider debating issues "garbage." We consider these issues life in the United States. Sure you can ignore them and call them garbage, but they won't go away no matter how much you'd like them to.

Did you read kat's post, gramma-o? Lap Band Talk gives people a forum to discuss lots of things that we're bothered about or happy about. The thing that we all have in common is the lap band. But that is not the only thing on our minds. We understand that you're uncomfortable with the Rants & Raves threads at LBT, but it fills a need for those of us who do enjoy it. Rather than taking it away from us, why don't you just confine yourself to the threads and topics that you enjoy?

Let's hope that's the case.

Yeah baby. Let's forget the "Yes we can" chant and JUST DO IT!

They have been blocking the guy that was nominated to run the TSA, as I understand it. Which is a brilliant ploy to keep us exposed to possible terrorists on airlines. Why do I get the feeling that they'd like nothing better than for someone to blow themselves up in the U.S. so they can point fingers at the President and say he's not doing anything to keep us safe. So much for people from both sides of the aisle working together to achieve peace, prosperity, health, wealth and happiness in the United States. We have a gang of obstructionists standing in the way of anything and everything. And right now a president who seems unwilling or unable to wrestle them to the ground and pin their ears back. What a revolting development.

hee, hee, hee, tdsfl1. In fact, I am working just as hard as you are to get my wishes fulfilled, patty. So here we are, just like the government right now - a major stalemate. And if you get your way nothing will be fixed, nothing improved, and we won't stay the same. We'll be stepping back in time to the weak country Bush brought us. So keep working hard to get your wishes fulfilled. You'll deserve the results and the consequences.

kartman: "I don’t care if Obama has a second term or not. I voted for him because I wanted change, a REAL progressive in the White House. Instead, we got another Establishment Democrat doing what Establishment Democrats do (which from my perspective is not much more than Republicans do)." My sentiments exactly. I've been giving our new President the benefit of the doubt by saying that he is trying to be fair to everyone, which I believe he is. But that's not getting the job done and things are not moving forward as quickly as we think they can be. AND although we knew he was sympathetic to keeping our military in Afghanistan, it is still very disheartening to know that the thread of war continues to deplete our resources, including our great men and women who serve. And Cheney keeps getting richer and the obstructionists keep getting away with blocking any kind of move toward a better America. What tha $#&(*@#^$%??? It all makes me want to curse too, kman!

So you are speaking from experience at having been kept down because of welfare. When I worked for the Attorney General in Virginia, there was a contentious discussion going on about Nixon's desire to make single mothers go to work by setting up government run daycare centers everywhere. I was a single mother. I was against it. Not because I wasn't able to take advantage of it, which I could have. But I knew that not every situation was like mine and I didn't want the government establishing a whole society of children raised by someone other than their parents - as was happening in some far east countries at the time. This is not an easy topic to resolve. I agree that people do take advantage of the system. That's on them and the weaknesses in our system. But we can't fix the problem by setting up some artificial society and forcing women to leave their children with others. And we can't allow seriously needy children to go hungry. What we need to continue to do is work to improve the way we give help to those who seriously need it. There are some incentives that have been put into effect, but more needs to be done. I don't know any politician or taxpayer who approves of giving welfare to those who can take care of themselves. But pretending that we can just do away with it because people cheat is counter-productive and clouds the real issues.

I agree with both of you Kartman and Cleo'sM. There are may progressives and very liberal folks who are disenchanted with the president because he actually has proven himself to be far more moderate and right-leaning than they hoped. So they are registering that in these polls. That's why it is never a good thing to put too much credibility in polling. Unless the questions are structured properly, you do not know why someone is for or against what the poll is about, just from their answer "yes" or "no." I would have to answer "yes" to a question that asked, "Are you happy that you voted for President Obama." If the question were, "Are you happy with most of the decisions that President Obama has made during his first year in office?" I would have to respond, "no."

Why don't you?

patty: "You know, the poor are poor because the government has enabled them to stay that way. They have provided one handout after another and who wants to give up a free ride?" Really? Do you honestly believe that? My heart bleeds for you.

patty: "You know, maybe I should say it differently. Obama's fruits show me..." Yes, patty that is far, far better and more believable than your earlier statement that basically declared that since you're an authority on when someone is deemed a Christian, you can say whether the President is a Christian or not. Questioning someone's sincerity is a total different animal than what you stated to be true, in an earlier post.

Just because you agree with blondie, patty, doesn't mean that she's factually correct. And btw, I just saw the results of a poll that indicates that the President still has the majority of Americans' support. Interestingly, it also indicated that the majority of Americans do not believe that Sarah Palin should run for president. So what majority are you talking about that is against everything that the President wants for this country? Like I said, it would be so impressive if the right wing was fighting this hard for something other than themselves.