BJean

Bt: "I spent more than 5 years in the military and have known plenty of gay soldiers. They did what would get them kicked out far away from the base and nobody bothered them." Doesn't that really say it all? I find it lucicrous to think that gay people will join the military just to make a point. A person could die or maimed from being shot at. That's a pretty serious consequence for trying to make a point by "pissing people off." Every person who is capable should have the priviledge of serving their country and should not be barred because of their sexual preference. Sexual preference should never be the basis of any kind of discrimination. If someone is a lawbreaker, certainly they should be banned. If someone is so "flamboyant" that they are unable to keep their feet securely in their combat boots, then that's a problem. As for the West Point man who "came out" on TV, I don't know if he's the same man I saw interviewed but the one I saw was "outed" by a civilian, not because he decided to make his homosexuality public. There have been more than one well-qualified military men who have tried to fight this ridiculous discriminatory ban.

Now I know you're kidding. You couldn't possibly think that "a couple of dudes kissing in a fox hole" is why this is an important issue. All those other things you listed have been big problems for a really long time. They won't be solved overnight. This "Don't ask, don't tell" policy should be kicked to the curb immediately! You're pretty funny.

All you have to do is to hear someone talk who is dealing with legal problems as a result of "Don't ask, don't tell." You figure out real quick how important this issue is. It isn't working and it is very important. John McCain looked like a doofus the other day saying stuff that is totally incorrect. This is exactly the kind of thing that we expect from our president, fixing things that are broken. As far as Obama slipping legislation by anyone, it doesn't matter what he's working on, everything he does will be noticed. Are you kidding?

Jane Fonda. Total strangers have told me that. But not so much as I've gotten older. She kept her shape and I didn't. Occasionally I still have someone ask me if anyone ever told me I look like Jane Fonda.

Cleo's, I find it interesting that patty gives you (and others) a second opportunity to be read by posting all the quotes. Cool. It seems to me that people who want the government to be involved in the control of our religious lives would do well to look at countries where they are ruled by a particular religious doctine. I can't name one where the people and country are better off because of it. In fact, those are the countries where turmoil and repression are the norm. To me it hardly seems better to have a country ruled by Christian doctrine than one ruled by say, Islam. No, I certainly don't agree with Islamic relgious doctine, but I also do not agree with the fundamentalist Christian extremists who want to tell me or my fellow Americans how to conduct our lives. We keep hearing about how we are a Christian nation because it was the intent of our founding fathers and further, that the only reason we don't want to have a theocracy is because we are immoral and want to continue living in sin. That's entirely incorrect on both counts. What we were founded on was freedom - freedom from religious oppression and persecution. And like you Cleo's, calling me immoral is highly offensive and hypocritical. And it only serves to make me dig my heels in further in my opposition to the right wing religious fanatics in America. And Cleo's... may you never run out of steam!

And Cleo's, I want to thank you so much for bringing so many relevant pieces of information to us. When people continually rant and rave and it is the furthest thing from the truth, it is necessary to set the record straight. You're doing a great job! Keep up the good work. P.S. I also commend you for clearly citing your sources!

I've been saying this all along as have a few others in far stronger positions than I. The religious agenda of the extreme right wing faction of the Republican party is obvious and I am happy that there are more people openly calling them out on it. This is important if we are going to be able to actually debate the real issues. The poll was quite revealing, and it's no wonder that people like Bartlett are angry. DailyKos' assessment that Republicans are "insane" is not really helpful. The extremists don't have to be insane to believe what they do, but we are insane if we allow them to disrupt the growth and well being of the United States of America. We have to debate the issues and stop calling each other names. Not that I believe it is going to happen. I believe that the extremists are going to continue to promote their agenda any way they can - through dishonesty, misrepresentation, etc. But the news media must, absolutely MUST, make Americans aware of the truth.

Reagan was such a puppet they probably told him the story about the Chicago mother who used welfare to buy a Cadillac and he didn't ask any questions, just bought it hook line and sinker. Like the rest of the lines they fed him and he regurgitated so perfectly.

I was under the impression you knew the Bible from cover to cover. Ahem.

"The Republican-American has a conservative editorial stance." Cleo's quote from Wikipedia I hardly call things like: In an "August 2005 editorial, "Is New Orleans Worth Reclaiming?" which called for the abandonment of New Orleans post-Katrina." Conservative? That's not conservative... that's extremism. That's actually sick, inhumane and disgusting. That rag calls Democrats "communist tyrants" and you consider that real NEWS reporting? That's your source of the news? You read it and watch Glenn Beck because you LKE what they say. You want to believe that racist, extremist clap-trap. Much of what they say is without any merit at all and yet you embrace it and repeat it. How fundamentally useless in uniting people for a better America.

Colin Powell was the Republican heir apparent to run for political office because he had done such a superior job and was so highly regarded. He said he didn't want to run for office so they used him as a scapegoat and hung him out to dry. People who had the utmost respect for him still hoped he would run but he continued to refuse to be a candidate. The day he endorsed Obama was glorious. Of course the Republicans claimed that he only supported Obama because of race. They never cease to amaze do they?

Yeah, and who's surprised that it is patty's "news" paper.

Cleo's: "Scott Roeder who killed the doctor who performed legal abortions was found guilty and given life. The prosecution wants it to be life without parole for 50 years. It only took the jury 37 minutes to decide his guilt." I'm sure the right wing extremists are disappointed that wasn't able to get the death penalty. They're so gung ho capital punishment for murderers.

OMG patty, if you listen to Glenn Beck and you believe him, no wonder you have the political opinions that you do. Don't you know that he says openly that he is not a news reporter? He's simply an entertainer. He doesn't profess to do anything but bring personal emotion and controversy to the table simply in an effort to entertain. Of course Rush Limbaugh has said something like that before too. And people still listen to him and lap up what he says like a kitten to milk.

loserbob, you're right Bush did not discuss anything with Democrats when he was in office. He didn't have to. Most of the time the Republicans dominated congress. So, unlike many of his predecessors, he didn't have to bother "reaching across the aisle" to accomplish whatever he wanted to. And on the few occasions he did speak to the entire assembly, he misspoke or misrepresented or outright lied. So Bush's administration operated a little differently than some of the previous administrations that had to work with the opposition party in order to get something done. And that's why we now have a Democratic president and congress.

He also tells us that we shouldn't speak about our beliefs loudly to others.

When I read patty's post I was determined to ask her who she was quoting. It is in very poor form to post something that you've lifted somewhere else and hold out to all the world that they are your words. Thanks for clearing it up for us, cleo's.

It's ridiculous to say that our laws are based on religion. There have been those same laws used to keep men civilized since long before religion was a word. How do you think the Ten Commandments were invented? Oh yeah, God gave them to Moses. Because it was not obvious to anyone but God that murder was bad or stealing was bad or doing your neighbor's wife was bad, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. One day you're going to have to question your blind faith, just as Mother Teresa did, or you're going to die having had a very limited spiritual existence.

patty: "Did I say 'democrats'? I thought I said 'government'. " Yes in so many words, you did. Because the stuff you post is Republican rehtoric. You're as repetitive with the anti-Democrat crap as you are with saying the Bible is God's literal written word. But when Dubya was in office, you were all about everybody supporting him and his administration because he was, after all, our president and he was waging an important war in Iraq. Because if we didn't fight them over there we'd sure be fighting them over here. Never mind that using that logic, we're using our brave men and women in uniform as bait. But I digress. The point is that your arguments about government vs. anti-government have everything to do with who is in power. I know you want everyone to think that you're just anti-government period. But the transparency of your right wing extremism is all too apparent.

I'm kinda feeling sorry for patty... It's all these darned facts that keep making her look bad. No fair!

You've got me musing, phil, wouldn't it be great if a board of women legislators could pass a law that men can't get vasectomies. Wait a minute, in the Roe v. Wade case, what if Roe went before the Supreme Court suing that the man who got her preggers had to carry the baby - in his scrotum. Oooh, this just keeps getting better!

phil, I love it. Whenever a woman gets pregnant without her permission, a man has to have a vasectomy! Perfect solution. Or castration, maybe castration would be even better. Hee!

It needs to be on every channel. The American people deserve to see what they've elected in action.

Fertilized eggs are not people. Women, on the other hand are.

patty: "But I thought we were talking about the past proposed HC bill." And why would we do that? Just to butt heads for the sake of butting heads? patty when claiming that health care without profit as the bottom line, is bad: "It is [bad] if the government is running it." Don't you realize how dumb that sounds? It seems to be proof positive that you're determined that anything that the Democrats endorse is bad. That's not only short-sighted, it is amazingly naive and/or just plain dumb. I'm pretty much a staunch Democrat but I would never say that the Republicans can't come up with a good health care plan or anything else. Republicans are people. And I have a certain amount of faith in all people. Even Republicans. Too bad the current Republicans don't have faith in anything but denouncing the Democrats in general and Obama specifically. We the people are being screwed royally by the self-serving Republican obstructionists. That's what's BAD!