BJean

patty: "Do you want me to go looking for the posts where I was told that I 'hate' Obama, and that I am a racist bigot?" Yes, that would be helpful in your defense. Again, having someone say that you "hate" Obama is quite different from someone saying that you are a bigot or racist. I am pretty sure I have said that you are a bigot and/or I said you're racist. Although I don't use the second term often. Bigot works just fine. However I haven't said, ever, that you hate Obama. I have no way of knowing how you feel emotionally about our president. However if I am to believe your posts to be truthfully what you think, then bigotry comes to mind quite frequently. Because proof is usually in the pudding.

patty: "Did you know that a news wire report from scientists in 1980 made this surprising statement: 'The sun's diameter appears to have been decreasing by about 1/10% per century.' "Scientists have been watching for over 100 years. Additional studies have shown that the rate is variable, but on average it is more like 400ths of a % per century. Every hour the sun is shrinking about 2 feet. Of course, 2 feet an hour isn't much when you consider the sun is nearly a million miles in diameter. But what are the implications? "If the sun is shrinking .04% per century, then it totals .4% per millinium. Now if you believe the sun's age is only 6000 years there's no real problem. In that time, the sun will have shrunk only about 2.4%. Life on earth would go on quite fine. But if you believe the earth and the sun have been around for nearly 5 billion years, as scientists predict, you have a problem. "If the sun existed only 250,000 years ago it would have been double its present diameter. At that size with the earth at the present distance from the sun, it would be too hot on earth for life to exist." __________________ patty, can you tell us where you got this information?

patty: "I certainly don't believe that anyone who disagrees with someones policies or makes fun of someone because he is the opposition (rep. vs. dem.), 'hates' them. I only used that word because in the past whenever I expressed my disagreement with a politician on an issue, I was told that I was a "hater" and/or a "bigot" on these forums. I was just reciprocating what is done around here to show others how wrong it is. I am glad that you picked up on it and now maybe others can see that it's NOT 'hate' or 'racisim' or 'bigotry' that moves us, but simply the persons agenda or beliefs or political stand that we don't like or approve of." Bigotry does not mean hate. Look it up. Check out racism while you're at it. You are the only person that I have obvserved using the terms hate and hatred. And you use them quite often. You may even be the only one using those terms in thread starters. Do not blame others for the way you post or the things that you think or assume. Take responsibility for what you say. Others have no control over you. Only you can control what you post and the terms that you choose to use. If you don't want someone to resent your mean assumptions, then think before you accuse them.

Devana, I have a lot of connections with people who think that their beliefs about God and the Bible are the only way to believe or be spiritual. I have extremely devoted Baptist missionaries in my family. I have very strong Catholics on the other side. And everything in between with the rest of my family and my friends. And I have lived through and believed those same things. If those who believe strictly in Christian dogma were more happy, more generous of spirit or more content in their personal lives, perhaps that would be an indication that they are indeed the ones who have the answer. To tell you the truth, I think that it has a lot to do with our hardwiring. It seems that where we are in our state of evolvement in this world determines whether we are open to true spirituality within or whether we need the Bible or others, like patty, to tell us what to believe and to confirm whether we are good or bad people. It is a pleasure to come in contact with someone who understands some of these things and your goodness is very apparent.

A perfect analogy Devana.

patty: "Only God can open a persons mind to a higher level of awareness. (consciousness) We get this gift from Him when he deems we are ready for it. It's called knowledge and wisdom. Every single thing that we have, from our posessions to our thankfulness to our wisdom comes from His grace and mercy that he pours out on those who believe in him. We can not even love others without God first putting that desire to love within us." You go on to say: "Anyone who has discovered something so wonderfully spiritual and has no desire to share the experience with others so that they may obtain it (or even deny it if they wish), really has nothing at all. And you call ME an elitist? "We get this gift from Him when he deems we are ready for it. It's called knowledge and wisdom." Obviously He has not deemed that you are ready.

patty: "He posed nude over 20 years ago when he was in his 20's. Are you trying to say that people don't mature and change in a few decades of time? Come on. Isn't there anything 'real' that you could pin on him for your hatred towards him. or isn't it true it's just because he's not a bad guy and he's not a democrat?" What's this preoccupation you have with hate? I have no hard feelings at all toward the man. I certainly do not hate him. In fact, I have a feeling that the Democrats might have use for the guy. I was being sarcastic. I was saying what I figured the Republicans are saying about him. If he votes his conscience, and indeed actually has one, that will be a good thing. And it hardly incites hatred. Except perhaps in the hearts and minds of Republicans.

I'm actually hoping that Brown isn't too excited about tea bagging. Guess it remains to be seen.

phil your last post, above, is your most impressive yet. I love the part about corporations' desire to save the planet. Spew my drink out my nose.

Well what can you expect from the state of Mass, those losers! That's what they get for electing somebody who would pose nude. Hath the man no shame? No sense of responsibility to all those Democrat, er Republicans, who voted for him? Those angry tea baggers (incited by Foxnon-news) will soon put the pressure on him and get him in line. They are so intelligent and powerful and have such good intentions, he won't be able to resist their influence. I mean, hasn't he even heard a Palin speech? What IS he thinking?

elcee you are definitely on the right track!

If you are honest and open, you'll discover it for yourself. There is plenty of evidence and information available to you. But I have no desire to bully you into seeing something that your mind is closed to. And right now, your mind is definitely closed to anything but what you are currently comfortable with - and the thing that has become so very important to you. Nor am I am trying to play "I've got a secret." I'm only hoping that you will stop being so close-minded and boxed into such rigid thinking that you dismiss the things that can open your mind to a higher level of consciousness, thus allowing you to become a better person for all eternity.

patty, we've agreed before, but those times were few and far between considering the number of exchanges we've had at LBT. :-)

loserbob, you probably don't want to hear my story but here goes. I've been banded since Sept '06 and I am seriously considering getting it removed and possibly getting the sleeve. When you read about people throwing up, you need to know that it is a very painful event and that if you do it enough you can cause your band to slip. Band slippage is serious and can cause you to need surgery to fix it. So although some people who have lost a lot of weight - all they needed to lose and more - many of them got there by having a very tight band and very little successful eating PLUS and this is a very important PLUS, they exercised without fail. I am not telling you this to discourage you from getting the band. For every horror story, there are success stories. But you shouldn't go into this thinking that it is the snap that some would have you believe. Although I do think that if all conditions are perfect, it definitely does work. It is just that having 100% perfect conditions is not guaranteed. And it is important that you understand that. If you are in enough pain from being obese, nothing bad that can happen with the band is bad enough to keep you from getting it. But once you are out of the real health threat and pain of obesity by losing 40, 60 or 80 lbs., there is a chance that your weight loss will stop right there. For me, the only way to lose weight (my knees are completely shot) was for the band to be so tight that I was in pain much of the time. Having a painful episode was not predictable. One time I could eat a bite of lettuce, the next time I could not. One time I could eat a bite of chicken, the next time the tiniest bit could become lodged and I could spend an hour in excrutiating pain. I just became tired of it and could not face one more minute of it. So when I had emergency surgery for an ischemic collitis attack, and the restriction was removed, I had very little put back in. I have gained back about 10 lbs. of the weight I lost, but no more and I've been at this weight for many months. Just want you to know what you're getting into. I might have dug a little deeper about alternatives if I had understood fully what having the band means. And btw, some people consider their band their best friend. I sincerely wish that I did too.

patty: " It has to do with this: When money gets handed to you for free, human nature says "take it." That is typical thinking of our congressional representatives. That's why you'll never see term limits or an insistence by them that all Americans have as good a health care plan as they have. That's why they will never ban lobbyists. That's also why it is ridiculous to say we should "throw the bums out" because there will only be similar bums to take their places. Money corrupts and that is the way of this country - and most other countries. We the people should use our power to force them to change the system so that they are not in a position to become so corrupt that they sell the country down the river for $$$$ to line their pockets with. That's why deregulation is necessary. That's why you don't reward big corporations for bad behavior, at least without imposing penalties and rules.

Ses "I guess it always depends on the circumstances, though. There are times when the health and safety of the mother, mental or physical, will be most definatly threatened and as a training Naturopath myself I'd never question or object to an abortion under those circumstances with my patients. " Ses, that is the crux of the problem in the U.S. Some people believe that the government should have the power to make the decision for every woman, no matter what the circumstances are. Those of us who believe that women should be able to make their own choice, based on their circumstances, are pro-choice. It makes absolutely no sense to outlaw abortion. It should be considered a very personal, very difficult delimma for any woman who must make such a decision. It is a decision that is one of the very most important decisions that anyone could ever make - not a decision that the government should uniformly make FOR all women. And yes, our healthcare system is not conducive to the government forcing all women in our society to complete every pregnancy regardless of their circumstances.

Some of you may misunderstand my post: Many of you have an enormous need for your interpretation of the Bible. For it fills you with the answers and the reasons for everything and even better, it fills you with the knowledge that all the things that you have done that you shouldn't have done, are forgiven by someone far greater and more powerful than yourself. Forgiven by our creator. That's powerful stuff! I am not finding fault with you or your beliefs. I know how much the Bible and God mean to you. I have certainly felt those things and have had those very same needs with the same answer being: Jesus as the way, the truth and the light. But, and I know you are not comfortable with this, there is a higher learning to be had. It doesn't mean that you must exclude or deny God. It means that you open yourself up to more possibilities and answers. It is more wonderful than any thing I could have imagined and it provides more answers and gives me more strength than I thought possible. I have lived through extreme highs and the very lowest of lows. Before I expanded my spirituality, I was unable to cope with the extreme lows because the pain was beyond belief. Now I can deal with anything that life brings... and more! Right now the primitiveness of the Bible and the things that were learned in church are enough and provide all the answers you need. And perhaps you will never need anything beyond that. Many people can feel content without seeking to learn more. But it was not enough for me and I am so thankful that I didn't just accept the few teachings and lessons of the Bible as the final answer to living a blessed life. Again, I am certainly not being critical. I am simply suggesting that you keep your heart and mind open for answers to questions you haven't even dreamed of yet. And don't accept the Bible as the final word. There is more.

Lbob,even home sales have risen a tiny bit and new home starts too. Not by much, but it isn't going the bad direction, at last. Yeah, the NRA would like for it to be legal for all of us to own ballistic missiles without a waiting period.

This is a great dialogue and it is clarifying, that is if you ever choose to question the things that you have been so endoctrinized with. patty, I have been born again. And again, and again, and again. Thank goodness that I have been able to deal with and overcome some pretty intense brainwashing by opening my mind and heart to things that are obvious to all who are willing to seriously question the motives of the writers of the Bible and the framers of all religions. It isn't easy. In fact, it is quite difficult. But it is amazing and beautiful. And that is what I wish for you someday. I doubt very seriously if you will ever be able to do it. You, like so many others, have such an enormous need for your interpretation of the Bible. For it fills you with the answers and the reasons for everything and even better, it fills you with the knowledge that all the things that you have done that you shouldn't have done, are forgiven by someone far greater and more powerful than yourself. Forgiven by our creator. That's powerful stuff!

Yeah, the experts with the data. Why bother listening to them when you can go tea bag someone?

It is very important that we question and learn and expand our beliefs. If we stay transfixed by the stuff that our Sunday school teachers used to make an impression on us, we are doomed to live within that tight little constrained world our whole lives. For instance, one of those was that God knows the number of hairs on your head.

I find it interesting that so many people love to say that there must be a creator... all you have to do is look around you and observe the wonders of God. Who created God then?

Leigha, loved your post.

Frustrating. Confusing. Confounding. Irritating. Frightning. Where are we going and how are we going to get there?

patty: "I know you feel the 'need' to express how hateful and biggoted I am, even though it isn't true. I happen to be the least biggoted person out there. I come from a family of many differing colors and nationalities, and I don't have even one ounce of prejudice within me. You know denial ain't just a river in Egypt.