BJean

hey, I don't know about kartman but I want socialized medicine for all. The fact that some of you are scared to death of it because you're so afraid of it, is very unfortunate.

What has happened is that Americans voted the Democrats in. They did it because they were fed up with the Republicans and they trusted the Democrats to try to fix what is wrong in America. Now that's what the president and congress have been trying to do - take care of the business of the United States of America for the Americans who voted them in office. But we have disgruntled Republicans who won't play ball on any level and now have talked certain Republican governors to file lawsuits against this duly elected body of representatives because they disagree with the outcome and the way it was accomplished. Is this America or not? Why was Bush able to do the things he did behind the scenes and with false data presented to congress to get their approval to let him decide to take us into war, among other things, but we never heard a peep out of them when at least some of the shennanigans were revealed? They don't give a rip about how this bill was passed. They only want to wreak havoc because they aren't in power anymore and they don't like the president. It has become personal and they aren't working for the people. They have their own agenda and the citizens be damned. Unless of course you're talking about the birthers, deathers and other obstructionists who are pea brained nincompoops. Unfortunately the president will do all he can do handle this matter fairly as will the Attorney General, if it comes to that. What the Republicans are hoping is that it will eventually go to the United States Supreme Court where they have the deck stacked. I just hope that the president and attorney general will put this thing in the incinerator where it belongs.

And to think that John McCain promised to "reach across the aisle" if he was elected. No more divisive politics, total cooperation and bipartisanship would be his order of the day. What a jackass.

Rush Limbaugh said something like, we've got to get those people! Inferring that they need to go shoot them. These dummies aren't thinking this stuff up all on their own. They have their disciples to tell them what to think and say and who to shoot.

patty, who are you talking to and quoting??

I'm afraid the extremists will only try to defend the offenses in that article by naming a few Democrats who have had inappropriate sexual relationships. Which only goes to help everyone understand where they are coming from, right? It's the same as them excusing the behavior of the tea baggers by saying that people demonstrated against Bush and his war. Bush demonstrators legitimize the bigoted, hypocritical displays of emotion so whatever the tea baggers do, no matter how horrific, is excusable. With hearts and minds like that, we don't need foreign enemies to cause us harm, we have plenty of problems within our borders to worry about. I can just envision the terrorists watching the U.S. melting down on CNN or the BBC everyday. They must be having a great time. What scares me is that those terrorists seem to be smarter, way smarter, than so many of the right wing extremists here in our country.

Good point Leigha. I can't imagine someone saying that Pearl Harbor and 9/11 were both acts of war. If the U.K. thought that, they would have gone to war with Muslim nations that have been committing terrorist attacks in their country for a very long time. And they'd also have to declare war on certain militant areas of Ireland, eh? Oh wait, Ireland is part of the U.K. so I guess those bombings would have to fall under the term "domestic violence" and would be more like the Timothy McVeigh and the abortion clinic bombings in the U.S. You could hardly call them declarations of war. The funny thing is that even if you could stretch the imagination and intellect to call 9/11 a declaration of war on the U.S. Who would you retaliate against? Letsee, oh if you're the Bush administration, you'd declare war on and bomb a country that had nothing to do with it, just to scare everybody in the Middle East, right? So thousands of Americans and thousands of innocent Iraqi people are killed so the U.S. can shake its' fist and stamp its' foot like a petulant bully on a playground. That makes so much sense. That is sarcasm, for those who just don't get it.

So your iphone inhibits good spelling and grammar? Oh, pardon me I had no idea that iphones had that built in glitch. And I'm not the police, I just notice things like that and sure, go ahead and go through my posts and pick out my own grammatical and spelling mistakes. That ought to keep you busy for a while. :-) I forgot that I wanted to take issue with one of your other statements. The one where you said I HATE George Bush. And I want to take issue with it because I do not HATE George Bush. I have many strong feelings about him but HATE is not one of them. That's funny... it just occurred to me that patty also loves to accuse people of HATE a lot. Yeah phil does use parentheses often in odd places. But I have noticed other things about his posts to call attention to. And I have done that. I didn't mention your mistakes to complain about them. I mentioned them in reference to what loserbob posted. And I dunno, maybe loserbob has a point...

I cannot believe that anyone would actually defend the kind of behavior that the tea partiers have been shown doing. That's unthinkable to me. But then, so is the tea party behavior. As I said earlier, if these are the things that have been caught on video, just think of all the incidents that they have pulled that weren't documented. As for the man with Parkinson's, I saw the video, you saw it. To suggest that a man sitting on the ground with an incapaciting disease would be capable of inciting the hate-filled, obscene behavior is absurd. His presence obviously made the ignorant demonstrators uncomfortable and they couldn't handle it. They couldn't handle it because they thought there was safety in numbers and because they do not care about their fellow countrymen. They are an embarrassment to every decent human being in this country. And if people can't see the difference between the folks protesting a war and folks insulting (physically and verbally) a sick person, then they have some very serious problems themselves.

The possibility of my being killed by foreign terrorists is slim to none and it has absolutely nothing to do with anything George W. Bush did while in office. I'm glad you saw fit to refute my questions. And just so's you know, it was mostly done tongue in cheek. As for the final question, I was just kidding around because someone said you're actually patty in disguise. (I think that might be for the reason that you and she have similar political views, use similar grammar and misspell some of the same words.)

"fighting them over there so we dont have to fight them here Wonder how our military feels about being simply pawns put out there to die so we don't have to feel threatened. Good Lord! This has made me sick to my stomach when I've heard those freaks of nature say it. George W. Bush is such a pansy-ass, that is probably the primary reason he wanted our armed forces over there.

You make extreme comments and then when someone goes off on a tangent in a reply, you feign innocence. Yeah, you're innocent of everything I've accused you of. Okay let's start over. You hate paying taxes, but only when it's for something you like. Did I get that right? You don't like George Bush, you didn't vote for him, but you're beholding to him for keeping your body from being blown away by a terrorist. Did I get that right? You think it is fair to call the current bill that has been passed "Obamacare" and you equate it to socialism. Am I wrong about that? You voted to keep gay marriage legal in your state but we shouldn't think badly of you because you have gays in your family. Is that about it? I'm curious, in light of what loserbob just said. If you were passing out food to people who thought they needed food, but one of them was smoking a cigarette, would you deny them that food? Just curious... P.S. I'm pretty sure you called it "obamacare" on more than one occasion but I am not willing to spend my time tracking it down. So you can score one for you, if you think that it's not what you said.

I've been saying for a long time that we have more to fear from the right wing extremists in this country than the terrorists from other countries.

"Socialized insurance administration? Well if the government pays the ins. and the ins. pays the doctors, then in turn, the government is paying the doctors, so.... socialized medicine again. Maybe not complete socialized medicine, because most hospitals are government ran yet, but it's still pretty much socialized medicine. Your calling Medicare socialized medicine, and your advocating for medicare for all, doesn't that mean socialized medicine for all?" ariscus See what I'm saying kartman? It's a fraud perpetrated on Americans to their detriment. I just want to yell, "Snap out of it!" and get them to listen to reason. But I gotta tell ya, Limbaugh, Palin, Beck and those buggers who keep the fear alive and well-fed, are way more convincing than you or I.

I'm glad you like California livin' airiscus. Some of my best friends are Californians. They're not gay though, god forbid. And to be truthful I am pretty shocked that you voted to keep gay marriages legal. Nothing like having one in the family to sway one's opinion, right? You are one of the ones who has made it personal by calling it "Obamacare" and your hyprocisy is showing. Damn and I said I wasn't going to engage with you anymore. My bad. You're real good at getting me to rant. So if you're tired of my long-winded tirades, don't address your comments to me, um kay?

kartman it may not be the plan that most Americans want, but it is the plan that they need. Most Americans seem to still believe the stigma that was planted in their brains for years about "socialized" medicine. Most of them don't understand the possibilities that a universal health care system represents. All they know is what they've been told and they've been told nothing but horror stories. People generally are opposed to change. They like to keep the status quo. It's what is familiar to them, they understand it and it takes no work on their part. But most Americans know that the system we've had for so long, sucks eggs. And now they're scared of the new plan coming out of Washington because they don't understand it. They think it will take work on their part. They think that it is going to force them to pay lots more taxes. They just fear change, period. And with the right wing extremists yelling death panels and the rest, they're running around like chickens with their heads cut off. (Or chicken Little screaming "the sky is falling") But the thing that is the most horrible is how they've made this personal. It's the right wing against the president. President Obama is evil incarnate. There has not been one president in my lifetime, which is considerable, who has done more to cross party lines and try to be a fair and moderate representative of the people. But the Republican crazies, the extremists, the birthers and Sarah Palin all still hate Obama and blame him and perhaps the Speaker of the House for things that have not happened and will never happen. And they scream it at the top of their lungs. It is just plain disgusting and embarrassing. Oh and stupid. Did I mention stupid? Very, very stupid.

airbus: "California does have state taxes, and we also pay property tax. So things are little different tax wise here, believe it or not." I've lived in Arizona where we were taxed up the wazoo and Virginia where we had similar tax and red tape and Montreal where, by golly, we had excellent health care, and Florida where the taxes weren't too bad but the state government sucked, and Oklahoma that turned out to just be posers with high insurance, Texas well, we all know about Texas and their main politician who thinks it's clever to speak of cessation from the union (reminds me of the Quebequois) and other places that have helped form my experience and knowledge base about taxes and the benefits from paying taxes. You choose to live in California, right? How's that working for ya? Are you one of those friendly folks who voted to stop gay marriage?

I'm not arguing, you understand. But you are wrong about my role in politics and government. And you are wrong about a lot of things. You speak of my use of "talking points" but your use of them is what prompted my anti-tax rant. So I understand now. If YOU think it is important, you don't mind paying taxes for it. But since YOU have a good health care plan (for why else would you be arguing the way you have been against what is it you call it? "Obamacare") since YOU have a decent health plan, YOU don't think that the system needs to be changed. How very open-minded, thoughtful and generous of spirit. Not.

Easy to say that you aren't a big fan of Bush now that the proof of his disasterous presidency has become so public. That and after the disasterous elections that took the Republicans out of control of not only the presidency but the House and Senate. When Bush was president the Republicans had control most of the time. The current political climate and bad economy and housing bubble that burst and all the rest happened because of that 8 years. You just can't change that. Even when you say you didn't support it, that doesn't change it. I don't feel sorry for Republicans at all. They are reaping what they have sown. And the constant effort to re-write history makes them vulnerable in November. How much do you think Americans can take? The Democratic party isn't perfect. They certainly have their stinkers that deserve scorn. But as a whole, the Replicans do not have the best interests of the United States in their hearts. There is no room in their hearts because of the self-love that consumes them. Sorry, but after the many years I've spent in politics, that's the way I see it. You can stay delusional as long as you want. It won't affect me and I'm done with arguing with you. It is a worthless waste of my time.

ariscus so now you want to bring up state taxes and bitch about that? Bitching about the United States government and the Internal Revenue Service isn't enough for you? Would you feel a whole lot better about yourself if we did away with public schools (yeah, you probably home school), the police department, the health department, the fire department, the water department, city government, help for funding colleges, and each and everything that makes this country the best country on earth? Why don't you live in the U.K. where you'd be paying a heckofa lot more in taxes? Or a South African country where you might not have clean water? Where do you want to start cutting - oh yeah - it's medical care, right? You like the system we had that politicians and intelligent people have been trying to change for 50 years because it is so lousy. Great. We keep that. What's next? Public schools?

They've proven over and over that nothing is beneath them. They're in a frenzy and they're out of control. I've lived when there was anarchy and riots and killing and mayhem. I sure don't want that for the United States, but they're sure pushing the cap off the bottle that has kept the boiling turmoil within this country from bursting forth. We need to march on the Limbaugh compound and Fox news and Rupert Murdoch's place until they stop the "inciting to riot" rehtoric. coffee talk anyone?

Once again Leisha, you pop up with relevant information. Thanks.

ariscus "medical wasteland"? You're a stitch! At this point I just have to laugh. Yeah, I thought George was your boy. You speak in Bushisms. The thoughts you post are line by line what the Bushyheads have fed you. If you didn't vote for him it's probably because you didn't vote. But I don't expect you to admit that. Or you brilliantly voted Independent, which was a non-vote in its' own way. But the fact that you are so consumed with taxes and big government and you're vocal about it NOW and not when Bush was in office should really tell you something. It tells me a lot.

missdiva, I agree with you, but to think that doctors are still called to medicine to help people is probably folly. Nearly everybody in America seems to want nothing more than to be wealthy and own more and bigger luxury merchandise. If someone who was thinking of going into medicine can't get the kind of wealth they want, it's no big deal to make a change and do something else that will. With that kind of greed-driven mindset, it's no wonder that all we hear from those folks has to do with what they are expected to pay to keep our government strong. They expect everybody else to take care of their needs - roads, bridges, police, firemen, their ailing grandparents... but oh no, they sure don't want any of their salary going to the government. The government is the boogy man. The goverment in America is socialism. Only problem with that is they NEED what the government takes care of, but they don't think that THEY personally should be required to pay for those things. They want to keep every red cent they earn in wages. And for a long time, most rich people did keep most of what they earned. But now that a more honest, fairer adinistration is in place, they're feeling very threatened! And they should. They've been able to build their portfolios on the backs of hard working middle class Americans. How do I know this you might ask? Because my portfolio grew by leaps and bounds when there were more and more loop holes for the rich. And now it's time to pay the piper. I am more than willing to do my part and always was, but Georgie boy and his cronies saw to it that I didn't have to. I am glad they're gone and I hope that November (the threat that ariscus made) doesn't bring out a bunch of voters with short term memory loss, because if they do elect a majority of Republicans to Congress, as a country we are really in for it!

This is a losing argument on both sides. You're blinded by the light and I am tired of your same lame, inane line of thinking. Why don't you stop trying to debate me and I'll do you the same favor.