BJean

Wonderer I think you're right about one thing. Money rules everything in this country including our politicians. So how do we hope to fix it? Regulation - not deregulation that the Republicans have always favored.

If requiring health insurance is unconstitutional then why isn't it unconstitutional to have a law that requires me to have liability insurance for my carl?

Ok k-man, as far as I'm concerned the fact that you only chew certain foods makes you an honorary elitist. Actually I think you probably still get a few nutrients from that process. Man it sure seems like you've broken the weight loss code. And I for one am very impressed!

Well even the people who championed this legislation cannot know for sure how each and every aspect of the bill will play out. Time will tell.

patty, are the people in the photos you posted part of an organized group like the tea baggers? Does the Democratic party encourage these kinds of signs? Do you think that the media and legislators encourage this kind of behavior in Democrats? One reason that people have lumped mainstream Republicans (if there are actually any left) in with the tea baggers, birthers and violent acts that extremists have exhibited this week, is because the many famous Republicans have encouraged this behavior and in South Carolina, the Republican party said they want to work with the tea baggers and possibly merge with them. A few Republicans in congress said this behavior should be condemed but very few. And many have behaved badly on the floor of congress themselves. So lump them together is what we do. No, it isn't actually representative of each and every person who was against the health care reform legislation. So no it really isn't fair to label all Republicans ignorant extremists that have a penchant for violence when they lose. I do understand why it is so offensive to you and I hope that you are as against the really bad behavior this week as I am against any bad behavior by people who might be considered Democrats. But honestly, showing these photos above really doesn't in any reasonable way, excuse the behavior of the wackos exhibiting violence against the legislation, the legislators or the president, now does it?

patty where did you get that information about an organized group of "tens of thousands" of people who violently attacked people, threw cement bags from bridges on Republicans going to the convention? Were the Republicans on foot or in cars or buses or what? Why did they attack a bus full of Cub Scouts? And Clorox? In the bottle or squirted from a sprayer or how'd they do that? Squirt guns? Did they put anybody's eye out? What "curse slurs" did they yell at Republicans? But the most important piece of data would be who the heck were these people? If there were tens of thousands of them, were they a huge organized group of some kind? What did they call themselves? Who organized them? Since the news media didn't see fit to tell us any of this at the time - nor have they since then, that I know of - we need to know about this and it seems like you're the person who is willing to report this important news item. So please, give us the specifics because I very much want to know about this. I'd specifically like to know how many people were sent to the hospital and what their injuries were. Were the Cub Scouts physically harmed or only emotionally? Also, how many of those tens of thousands were arrested? I'm sure there must have been a lot of arrests because I saw lots and lots of policemen lining the areas near the convention hall.

k-man: "Oh the democrats are already drinking bottled water. How else would we wash down all that arugula and brie?" Don't you dare cast aspersions on my arugula, brie and pear salad! Btw, I don't know where you are in Cali, but I can give you a tip on phenominal pizza - best ever, seriously - if you're in the LA area. Freshest and best ingredients, best crust, etc. It has been recognized many times but is a very small "best kept secret" kind of place.

Yes Leigha I had heard about that. kimaly, no we do not own a construction company. But the Dems are trying hard to help small businesses and get the construction business some stimulus to get things going again. Is yours a commercial or residential construction business? Or both? And in what way is health insurance handled differently for a construction business in the reform bill?

Didn't we all know that the Republicans would conveniently get phone calls and carefully constructed threats from people, whom they claim are Democrats? I sure did. It totally goes along with their usual subversive activities. When something awful they support backfires on them, they send out letters and get someone from their own camp to go public with whatever crazy idea they can come up with to deflect the heat off them. The Republicans are the ones who exhibit the obnoxious behavior, the threatening behavior, the foul language and accusations, i.e., the birthers, the deathers, Joe the Plumber, etc. The Republicans are the ones who link arms and write and sign letters that are published and broadcast over the airwaves. They're experts at lies and ugliness (remember the Swift Boat campaign they used against Senator Kerry?) There are lots of incidents that they have been responsible for that go back to the Nixon era. And probably before that but I was too young to witness them. So nothing new here. Nothing to see. Move along.

Leigha do you know anything about the candidate for governor, Bill White? I'm relatively new to the state and like some of what he's said. But I know you can't pin your hopes on rethoric.

kimaly: "If we took a good look into disability and medicaid and got those off of it that really don't need to be on it then maybe the people that do need it could have it also cap insurance companies and the amount hospitals and doctors can charge you. Just think of the money we could save there. Also I get 1 script a month and it cost $152.00 for 30 pills. stop this. Cap what they can charge for scripts. And the Constitution states No laws will be forced on the people that do not apply to congress. So why are they exempt from this Health care program they are shoving down our throats?" We own a small business and I am not worried at all. We've been told that it is not going to bankrupt us or damage us in any way. Right now my husband and I cannot enroll ourselves in the good insurance that we provide our employees because of "pre-existing conditions" and our employees insurance is far better than what we can get through another company, for which we pay a lot more money. Our pre-existing conditions consist of both having surgical procedures that will probably never involve any subsequent related medical problems. You've said that you think caps should be on meds, etc. Well how do you want to go about making that happen? It's not going to happen without congress and the president getting involved. They're doing as good a job of getting it done as they can without any help from the Republicans. I am positive that if Republicans had a better plan to put forth, one that was fair to most Americans, Democrats would have been receptive to it. Everything they came up favored the insurance companies and pharmacutical corporations. Not what you're saying you need. And I don't get why you say this has been "shoved down our throats." We elected the people in congress and we elected the president. We sent them to Washington to make things better and that's what they're doing. Saying it has been "shoved down our throats" is simply a propagandist slogan put forth by the party of "no you can't." Did you vote for Republicans? Then you should be wondering why they aren't doing a better job for you. You should be complaining that they are simply being obstructionists instead of contributing to the improvement of this country for you and your small business. You should wonder why they refuse to work with Democrats to bring the best legislation forward that is possible. You should also be embarrassed by their part in inciting terroristic behavior toward those people who are trying to make things better for us. This is how a democracy works... the majority rules. The Republicans ruled for 8 years and now it's the Democrats' turn. I can understand sincere differences of opinion, but militant obstructionism is unAmerican and inexcusable behavior. I can understand it if you feel threatened by this legislation, especially if you have bought the false information that the Republicans have repeated over and over. But arbitrarily deciding that legislation has been shoved down our throats is just not the truth.

And Gov. Perry is the king dumbf*** so he'll be happy to stay in charge of the newly named dumbf***istan, the state formerly known as Tejas.

And I'm very proud of you Cleo's... you do an excellent job!!

Oooh I vote for the valium in the water supply option. I'd suggest we start with Rush Limbaugh but he's so doped up already, he'd be immune. The mental image of all the Red State wackos taking a chill pill is exciting enough to give me some serious fantasies tonight.

I understand that it is possible for the individual states to work out a way to get the public option as long as they stay within the framework of the recently passed legislation. I have absolutely no hope of that here in bf Texas, but perhaps in Cali and other civilized states, you will have a chance at it.

you know kartman, with age comes wisdom. My better half worked in defense contracts for many years and worked for the government before that. It tends to make you favor the dudes who like war. But my heart and mind know better and I've never let my personal well-being cloud my political judgement. Much to my husband's chagrin.

Oh my sides! That was one of the best laughs ever!! My new favorite place too.

kartman I believe that the reason that Republicans stay on point is pretty much the same as you. They have a very solid set of values that are across the board the same, no matter what the issue. Free reign to allow capitalism to flourish, no matter what it costs us individuals. Allow the wealthy sector to grow because they will take care of the people who are not wealthy. Their strategy is to sell that agenda so that the American people believe that it is right and good. That's what they do so well. It isn't complicated, like you inferred. It is much simpler than the Democratic agenda, which is to work hard to make everything fair and better for most Americans. That's a very big set of goals. And some of those things are easily debated especially on the actual process of how to make them happen. Republicans always work for big money and against the little people. But they disguise it so expertly in words that people like Reagan became famous for - like the one about the government being bad. Another one is that health care reform will make your taxes go up and increase the deficit to such an extent our children will never be able to pay for it. The list goes on and on. And they have enlisted a bunch of actors to play parts to sell their message - the message that they are trying to keep taxes low and government small. Rush has the starring role with Glenn Beck, Palin and others as backup players. The Republican politicians lie to our faces. They look at us in the eyes and lie to us. They raise their voices in indignation and act like we'd be crazy to question their motives. And that's why they're so convincing. And that's why so many people are utterly fooled by them. Otherwise how can you explain that millions of Americans have embraced the Republican party and tea partiers and birthers, etc. when everything that party stands for and those wackos do, is contrary to their personal well-being?

Yeah, and if you believe that, I have some ocean front property in Arizona to sell you.

kartman that's hilarious. Very scary, but hilarious none the same.

If you look up the word "hyprocrisy" in the encyclopedia you'll find a picture of John McCain with a quote beneath saying "I reach across the aisle and work with my fellow senators to get the work done for all Americans."

ariscus: Is your perfect utopia a full on socialized nation? Communism? Or is it something else? Enlighten me." Gladly - if you'd only actually listen. No one expects to achieve a perfect nation and no one that I know wants a communistic country, be it socialism or facisim or any other form of communism. (Of course if you actually understood these forms of communism you probably wouldn't throw the terms around so casually.) What progressive Americans want, at least what this progressive American wants, is fairness. Plain and simple. Fairness in government. Equal treatment for all. What we have established under Republican rule is a government that favors the wealthy. In fact, it has become so favorable to the wealthy it is beginning to create two classes of Americans to the exclusion of a strong middle class. If all Americans are not treated equally in this country, we certainly do not have a democracy and it is not what we are promised in our Constitution and Bylaws. America cannot be a strong country - the strongest country in the world - unless everyone has the opportunity to have good health and a decent education. These things should be very basic to our existence as American citizens. That's what I expect and want for America. Now explain yourself and why you're so supportive of capitalistic greed beyond reason.

Amen, Leisha!! My answer is simple... Americans deserve to have the best health care in the world. Not only provided by the smartest and most skillful doctors, but also the best drugs and diagnostic equipment. Right now those things are only guaranteed to the very wealthy. Others have insurance that will often defray the costs to the patient so that they can afford them. But too many Americans either do not have good insurance or insurance at all. And it is a crap shoot whether those with insurance will be covered by their insurance carrier or for some reason determined by that company, be denied treatment or the ability to be diagnosed in a timely manner. So with the system we have now, most Americans are often stressed to the limit when they become seriously ill. They have to not only deal with the physical problems they face, but they also have to psychologically deal with the fact that a nameless-faceless entity holds their health and perhaps even their life in its' hands. And the process by which they must obtain "approval" is often lengthy and requires more than one attempt and in some cases the patient must beg for what their doctos says they need. The Democrats have fought long and very hard to make this right for America. The Republicans have fought the Democrats every step of the way. Which would be totally acceptable if they did it in a fair and honest way - on the merits - instead of their fantasy of what they've said "might" happen if we change our HC system. But they haven't even stopped at that. They, as has been their modus operandi since this president took office, tell untruths, make up lies, misrepresent the truth and manufacture every false and misleading thing they can think up to defeat what they believe is the president's "waterloo". That's what the Republicans are doing for Americans. Instead of being representatives for the people, they are hoodwinking their constituents into thinking that this bill is something to fear. And further, that this bill will ruin our health care system. Now they have been worked into such a frenzy, it has become personal and they advocate throwing bricks, lying, filing bogus lawsuiits, spitting, hurling epithets at congresspeople, threatening to shoot the people who have brought this bill forth and much, much more. In November we the people need to not forget this insane behavior and throw them out of office. If Americans put up with this kind of behavior on the part of their representatives, we certainly do not have a democracy in America. What we have is anarchy and it reminds me of the political climate of the 60s and 70s. Let's hope that the National Guard doesn't have to be called out and wind up using bullets to restore order in America. Remember Kent State?

Thanks for your responses so far. I hope we get even more input right away. The political climate in this country has many of us perplexed. Maybe this poll will explain some of that. I have no idea how it will wind up but right now it's 2-2-1.

patty rest assured, "you two" are just as sick of reading your nonsensical diatribes. But on the upside, the more idiotic stuff you find to post, the better opportunity we have to show valid information that debunks it. Actually I'm not responsible for the good stuff. I only enjoy giving my opinion and telling about my own observations. So you have Cleo's and others to thank for debunking your myths. It is fascinating to see you stick to your guns no matter how wrong you're proven to be. In fact, you seem to dig your heels in further each time. Right now it must be tough to be you. I remember how I felt on the night that Bush dropped bombs on innocent human beings. Perhaps you feel a tiny bit of that right now with the health care reform package. All I gotta say is paybacks are hell.