BJean

Carlene: You gotta be careful about "studies". I'm sure you know that they can be skewed any way they want them, if the questions and parameters are carefully structured. For instance, they didn't just use the term salary to compare compensation between government and private sector jobs, they included "and benefits." Well for one thing, government workers accumulate vacation much more rapidly than in the private sector, generally speaking. But then, generally speaking is what is clouding the issue. I agree with some of the article (study?) but since we have walked in both private and government employee shoes (both my husband and I), the article you referred to does not seem completely straight forward in its' approach or outcome. Concerning the issue of abortion, I am quite vocal and vehement about it. Once again, I am married to someone who is Catholic and probably believes just what comes down from the pulpit in the Catholic church. But for myself, I cannot understand why any woman would wish to allow outsiders (read Men - Pope - Priest - Preacher - Politician - Supreme Court Judge) to rule over the issues of her health and reproductive decisions. It shouldn't matter whether you want to have an abortion or care if anyone else does. You should not want anyone to be controlling a decision like that or any other completely personal issue, except you and whoever else you choose for support. When are women all over the country going to learn from some of the atrocities that have happened and are still happening in certain countries in South Africa and elsewhere? What if men were told that they HAD to be sterilized if they impregnated a woman who desired an abortion? Now that would be a nice little control issue, wouldn't it? Why do you honestly believe that the Catholic Church has taken this stance? I am less than respectful and very cynical about some of the men who have made the decisions for millions of Catholics throughout the ages. If their decisions weren't made to perpetuate the Church, but only for the well-being of their parishioners, I'll eat my hat. The abortion discussion does not need to include when conception begins. That's irrelevant to the issue of whether a woman has a right to decide for herself what she will allow to happen to the core of her being. No other person should be able to tell anyone they must or must not have a medical procedure. Now are we going to discuss euthanasia? Did I spel that rite?

gonnabethin: I sure hope you get the green light tomorrow to begin mushies. It helps a lot. I did have one day after starting mushies that I was ravenous all day! I think I managed to ingest 1300 cal. only using the s/f, f/f foods on my list! You'll find, I think, that you are still going to feel pretty restricted. But having more satisfying and tasty food helps. I was able to actually move to real foods yesterday and even salad today. I thought I would have trouble with a little salad, but I chewed until there was nothing left and it was fine. It was a simple salad of romaine, carrot coins and celery. I also had a very small portion of pasta dressed with olive oil, tomato sauce, garlic and basil. I could not get the basil broken down enough to swallow it, though. I have always been a huge chicken lover, cooked any way. I can't eat it well at all now. I had no trouble with well-cooked salmon, but chicken gives me an actual pain in my tummy and also in my chest. I probably shouldn't be talking so much about food here, but I'm hoping that it will inspire you to know how quickly you will be able to move on with no problems. I'm still losing weight now, but just ounces a day instead of lbs. Oh well, my health is at stake and that is the most important thing. Just so long as I keep losing!! Good luck tomorrow! I'll be thinking about you. Let us know how it goes!

Carlene: I think I may be misunderstanding what you said about Government workers making more than their counterparts in the private sector. Did I get that right? My DH worked for the Department of Defense and for the Army for many years. He now works for a defense contractor and believe me, he makes much more money than if he had stayed in even a very powerful job in the Government. Maybe I didn't understand what you were saying? Tired Old Man: I didn't say that having a strong offensive, aggressive military presence, as we certainly do, is important. I said that it is very important that we have a strong national defense. I also know that there are some really awful weapons programs, and that all of that needs to stop. But those things are not just happening exclusive to the Department of Defense. Having a war mongering stance in the world is the last thing I want for us. I honestly cannot believe some of the things this President and his father have done in the name of national defense. I was at the Phil Donahoue show when all the hoopla surrounding the Iran Contra affair happened. (Not as a panelist) But Ollie North scared the bejeebees out of me. We should have all learned a lesson about what deceit some politicans are capable of even in this country - nevermind Germany! Now we're stuck with our military in a major mess and you are totally correct when you say we've decided we are the world's police. Bush says that we're trying to make sure that other countries are ruled democratically. Well who the heck are we to tell everyone else in the world how to live their lives? And not only tell them, but militarily try to enforce it. It's insane! Sometimes I'm as p'oed at our country's actions as some of our enemies are.

lisah25 - you're making some good points! All too true, which is a good reason to participate in forums like this!

Teri: It DOES matter who's in the white house and who's running Congress. It matters who is serving on the Supreme Court. And who's serving on other courts. Voting matters. Opinions matter. I thought I was a bit cynical, but you sound downright resigned to things happening as a normal course of events. (That may sound harsh - I certainly don't mean it that way, I just don't know another quick way to make my point) I am surprised that people still like to believe that Clinton was so preoccupied with Lewinsky, he went out and used his power to divert attention away from his troubles. Bull hockey. He was acting on information given to him by the Intelligence community and he was trying to protect and defend this country. Republicans at the time accused him of trying to divert attention away from the persecution that they levied against him, but NOW they are saying Clinton didn't do ENOUGH to protect us when he was in office. That tired old song and dance is getting very wearisome at this point. My question is why Bush didn't come into office trying to defend our country against Bin Laden when he took office (before 9/11)? Bush was given the same information that Clinton had been given. And Bush had a Republican Congress to back him up. What's his excuse? He was busy mapping out a plan to oust Saddam and get back into business in Iraq. Too bad 9/11 didn't foil THOSE plans. As for Social Security, you must understand that there is so much money taken in for SS taxes, all the politicoes eventually just couldn't let it sit there and wait to be paid back out. So they have used it over and over for things totally unrelated to the security of the retired people who paid in all that money. It is broken not because there will be more people than ever getting SS benefits when the babyboomers retire. It is broken because it was used for something other than for what it was intended. Fix the problem, don't take away the program that is keeping our old folks -who paid into it - from being unable to survive in this society. And why in the world would anybody believe that bureaucrats could invest that money wisely when all they've done to this point is bankrupt the system? Fix the PROBLEM - not the program.

Carlene: I agree with most of what you said. But I don't like the idea that defense benefits wealthy people more than poor people. That's saying that WHAT we own is more important than WHO we are. When lives are at stake, it doesn't matter what you own or how many things you have, death is death. The end. I get what you're saying - obviously when our country is defended against an evil empire, the wealthy benefit more by not losing their wealth than poor people do who have fewer valuable things - but everything is relative and defending our lives is the most important thing, no matter who you are. Which takes me to Tired Old Man. I agree with most of what you said too, and although I brought up the topic of other countries and their huge tax rates, we need to keep in mind that many of them have things like socialized medicine and other things that we do not have to fund. I also take exception to a couple of your comments about having a strong national defense. I believe that having a strong national defense is extremely important - pure and simple. I understand about government waste and fraud and the $500 hammer. But if we could streamline spending across the board on all government programs, we could reduce taxes and the national debt. No question that defense spending is out of control. There are always pork barrel programs... Star Wars and all that. They are an abomination, and thanks to the current government the defense contractors have done quite well. But although there should be balance in our defense programs - just as in all government programs - we need a strong national defense. Or it goes back to what Carlene is talking about and some ya-hoo will come over here and take all our good stuff for themselves. It seems like as long as we have this system of government, we're doomed to obscene deficits. Do you think that term limits would be one way improve all this?

dpingl: There should be no question over the fact that Americans are over-taxed. Have you checked any of the other industrialized nation's tax rates? Great Britain, for instance? It sort of eases the insult to some extent. But it isn't just our national income tax that is sucking us dry. The State gets a goodly amount of our annual income in various ways too. Even if you live in Texas or Florida, for instance, and have no personal property tax, these two states get to you in other ways. I've lived both places (and many others) and there seems to be no escaping working many hours per month for the tax man. Just please reassure me that you know that the Republican dominated Congress and Republican President have put us in a much worse condition, regarding federal spending, than their Democratic predecessor. You do remember that when Bush took over, we had no deficit, and in fact had a surplus. Now we're right back where the Republicans had us before we got a Democrat in office. How do you expect to cut taxes when our deficit is so enormous?

dpingl: There should be no question over the fact that Americans are over-taxed. Have you checked any of the other industrialized nation's tax rates? Great Britain, for instance? It sort of eases the insult to some extent. But it isn't just our national income tax that is sucking us dry. The State gets a goodly amount of our annual income in various ways too. Even if you live in Texas or Florida, for instance, and have no personal property tax, these two states get to you in other ways. I've lived both places (and many others) and there seems to be no escaping working many hours per month for the tax man. Just please reassure me that you know that the Republican dominated Congress and Republican President and his advisors have put us in a much worse condition, regarding federal spending, than their predecessors... Bill Clinton, in particular. You do remember that when Bush took over, we had no deficit, and in fact had a surplus. Now we're right back where the Republicans had us before we got a Democrat in office. How do you expect to cut taxes when our deficit is so enormous?

I've been off-line for a couple of days. I've been catching up with the posts from new bandsters from the past couple of weeks. You guys are scaring me!! :help: Everyone's docs are different, but if my doctor says lift nothing over 10 lbs. for six weeks, I worry about those of you who are lifting children, weights and UPS packages! He was pretty graphic about what can happen if your band slips or erodes. And it ain't pretty! :omg: Also, for those of you who are so hungry that you are breaking the rules by eating things that are not on your post-op food list, I'm afraid you're asking for trouble. If you are not eating enough Protein you will be hungry and if you are eating carbs (in almost any form) you will get VERY hungry. If you aren't getting your Vitamins, your body will start craving anything you'll give it so that it won't feel like you're in starvation mode. If you want to come out of this surgery as a healthy, fit person, and if you want to have the energy to make your band work for you, playing by the rules is really a small thing and it will only last a couple of months. The payoffs are fantastic and worth it to me. I hope ithey are for you too, because having a gizmo implanted in the middle of my bod and 5 scars isn't worth it, otherwise.

I avoid watching TV news and I don't read the newspapers anymore because of all the frightening bytes, both national and local. But I heard one broadcast in passing the other day that seemed to be saying that the Iraq war has gone on longer than we were involved in WWII. Although I just had surgery and may have been in a drug-induced dream state. Anyone want to challenge that? (Not the drug part, the length of Iraq vs. WWII.)

KariK: That's a good take on the voting aspect of this thread. I think you're right. When I first came to LBT, there was a raging argument going on with lots of flaming and insults flying. Many of those people have left and are participating at a different site. I am so happy to know that healthy discussions can be had without people getting personal. Is this a great country, or what!!

Gawd, I'd just LOVE to have Scribby and Carlene over for dinner!!!!! I haven't been able to enjoy a lovely repast with two such charming wits in too many years! Keep it up you guys!!! You're making me a very happy woman!:clap2:

Heavens to betsy! I was off getting banded and reading all about all the September bandsters experiences, swapping shoulder pain stories and what happens? You are all going off here, having a blast. I am loving reading all of this political stuff! T.O.M. you've written some very interesting posts. My initial response to most things being posted here is that the insurance companies rule our lives. Period. I am definitely a Democrat. Always have been, probably always will be. For many of my young years, I was a Democrat because my parents were political activists in the Democratic party and my father worked as a political appointee. Later, when I actually began to read and think for myself, I realized they were right. We weren't millionaires. We had little chance to become billionaires. We were comfortable financially, but were very uncomfortable with the rich getting richer whenever there was a Republican president with strong Republican presence in Congress. What we were comfortable with, however, was living in a country whose citizens care about each other. (Just as a side note, my DH is a Republican who works for a company that does contract work for the military.) These past years, particularly since 9/11, things have become even more serious in dealing with the Republican party. They skewed both of the past 2 presidential elections - which is unfathomable in a "Free Nation Under God". Jimmy Carter and his team go into countries to monitor elections so that what happened right here, in this country, won't ever happen in those countries. How in the world are we able to live with the things that were done to affect the outcome of those elections? Why aren't we screaming to the rooftops that it should never happen again? After the election and 9/11, the Republicans declared war on a country that was guilty of having a ruler (that we had placed in Iraq, by the way), who was a horrible, horrible man. Saddam had become ungrateful to us, the country who supported him as the ruler of Iraq, but who no longer made that country a friendly climate for Americans or American business. Our Vice President and the Bushes, had a long-standing investment in being able to make money in Iraq. So, I believe that George W. took office with the understanding that he would do the job of getting us back into Iraq by whatever means necessary. The American press - also with money and power at stake - played right along with it for the most part. We Americans believed all the weapons of destruction... blather., and many Republicans particularly agreed that it was in our country's best interests to go in there and make a big show of power and oust that manical mad man. And besides, almost everyone was in the mood for a fight after 9/11. We invaded Afganistan right away, which was understandable since our Intelligence community had declared Bin Laden the mastermind of 9/11, but why do Fox and other media in the U.S. continue to ignore the fact that when we had Bin Laden cornered in a cave in Afganistan our soldiers were directed to walk away (ostensibly so that others could actually do the deed of either killing him or taking him prisnor)? What happened there? Why isn't Fox raising cain about that? Why is Fox jumping back in time, attacking Bill Clinton for not killing Bin Laden? Why is it hunkey dorey for Bush to be the guy who okayed walking away from Bin Laden in Afganistan, but when Clinton was President, they raised cain with him for trying to eliminate Bin Laden? At the time Fox and others declared that Clinton was trying to divert attention away from the Lewinsky matter. Are we all too burnt out to remember how they treated Clinton when he tried to garner support for going in and dealing with the threat that the CIA had uncovered? Well, I can tell you why this stuff with Fox is happening. It is happening because of the elections in November. The Republican party is scared that they can't win some of the key Congressional seats that are up for grabs, and they'll take whatever measures necessary to divert the attention away from the issues that we Americans should be rising up en masse to get answers to. And for those of you who believe that it is smart to "vote for the man" - I wish it were that simple. Fact is, if you vote for the man that is Democrat, you'll be voting for all the things that the Democratic party embraces. Same goes for voting Republican. So about the best you can do is learn what the real agenda is of both parties, figure out which offends you less, or which you really support, and vote for the man from that party who is running. I wish voting for the man was the answer. But we have to work with the system that is in place or we have to change it. There are dirty politics out there on both sides, but the Republicans have always been powerfully powered by all the big business and personal money that pours into those campaigns. The only thing saving average Americans in politics is that the numbers of average Americans is far greater than the moneyed elite who vote. T.O.M. (I think) had it so right when he said that people are better off in this country since Bush took over from Clinton. But as he said, the bad news is that most of us are not the ones who are truly better off. The white collar men at the top are the ones who are running everything and who are benefitting from this administration's policies. I don't even think we would be in such bad shape if our Congress had a better mix. But when you have a Republican President and a Republican Congress, there are no checks and balances. And this is scary!! Also, if you aren't scared right now and extremely saddened by what this war in Iraq has done to us as individuals, then you must not have a member of your family over there. I want to puke or PB at least, everytime I think about the men and women who died, or have been wounded and who have been displaced by this war; their families, their lives all just on hold while they risk their lives and limbs for a nasty, horrible war. A war that this President was able to commit us to because he and his crew had us so frightened with their massive campaign, that we gave them the power and we let all it happen. Now where are we with this war and all the lives our country (and others) have given and where is Iraq and its' people? It is a horrific state that Iraq is in, and it is horrific what has happened to our depleted military. Did you ever think we would see the day that our National Guard would become our regular military forces? Did you ever think you would see the day that we would be in the position of not knowing what would happen if we seriously needed a large military force to defend our shores, but didn't have that military force? We're getting there and I'm very uncomfortable with that feeling. I believe in a strong military, and I worry that our military will not soon recover even if they were brought home tomorrow. Now, how do I really feel, you ask? (That's a joke) I guess I should apologize for going off like this, but having read all the other posts tonight, I just couldn't pass up a chance to voice some of my own concerns. If I were apathetic to the entire mess, I guess I wouldn't even be reading this thread. But gosh folks, as bad as the Lewinsky affair was, how can anyone seriously bring that topic up in light of what's happening under the Bush administration? NurseCathy: The buy outs are all over the news.

mariecarmen: Don't make the mistake I did the first trip to the doc afterwards. I had lost enough weight that I knew I could wear a pair of pants I hadn't worn in some time. Sure enough I got them on. all zipped and buttoned. I was running just barely on time and rushed out the door for the 20 min. drive. Once I sat in the car and used the gas and brake pedals, those darned pants cut into my tummy and port wound so bad I thought I was gonna die!! I had to stop and undo every button and zipper I had on. Drove to the doctor's that way. Had to park behind a tree so I could maneuver my pants back in place, all zippered, etc., and waddle into the building. I was so miserable I couldn't even sit for long in the waiting room. I paced and acted like I was looking at different magazines. I was painfully sitting (trying to not show the strain in my face) when the doc came in and after a short chat, he asked to see the 5 little steripad covered spots. I explained how I'd made a bad mistake and proceeded to let it all hang loose. After he looked, I dropped my blouse and left everything undone. When he finished talking he said, "follow me to the scales" and I had to tell him to wait up - 'cause I gotta get these things zipped again! It was embarrassing, especially since my weight loss wasn't as much as I thought it would be from my pre-op weigh in. Ahh, the humiliation of it all. DON'T let this happen to you. Since then, I've been enjoying all the freedom and comfort that elastic brings!

Lapoli: You really have managed a very good weight loss beforehand. That's going to help you a lot during the surgery and afterwards! The few days before my surgery, all you-know-what broke loose at my house - everything that could go wrong, did - and although it was annoying at the time, it sure kept me preoccupied so that I didn't worry about the Band date. The night before the surgery, I was so pooped I slept like a log. If you really do have trouble sleeping, put on some headphones (yours or borrowed) with some sweet music and you'll be surprised at how much it relaxes you. Best wishes for a good trip and great outcome! Keep watching LBT and you'll know just about everything you need to know for being a brand new bandster!

Eeeeuuuu! Now I understand what all those August bandsters were complaining about who had the floroscope thingy. I guess I'm glad I've missed that bit of thrill-seeking. But cool you got to see your band-aide. What a description - styrofoam with essence of skunk!

Gonnabethin: What's a gastrogaffin? I mean how is it done? Why did they do that? Just to find out if everything was aligned? I can't feel much of anything in that area on the inside. Anybody have bumps on their incisions? Two of my incisions have real sensitive bumps on them. Not at the port site, at two of the smaller wounds. I don't know if they're scar tissue already or something else. I still have almost all of the steri-strips. Doc said to let them "shred" to pieces and fall off. That's hot. lol ErinS: sure sounds like the Medifast approach worked well for you! Congrats for doing so well with your pre-op loss! I'll bet you continue to do well for at least the next couple of weeks. Welcome to bandland!

Gonnabe: OMG that sounds incredible! Pot roast is very high on my hit list. I nearly lost it last night when I was slicing some chicken for DH that was from the grocery store - roasted. I tried a very tiny bite. It was amazing. I wanted to eat the whole thing. But I was scared. I don't know why they aren't allowing any meat, chicken or anything yet on my meal plan! I was scared because the other day I tried blending a homemade chicken vegetable soup (that my neighbor brought over) in the blender but the spoonful I tried nearly stuck in my throat. It also had broccoli in it so that may have been the culprit. I hope I can make it through the weekend. I am SO wanting something other than the sweet stuff. Gag, wretch.

Yea MarieCarmen!! Sounds like you're doing really well! The shoulder pain seems to bother everyone at a different rate. It really helps to raise and lower your arms while you walk. Congrats that you've joined the ranks of the September bandsters! Milk the pain thing and try to stay in control of the remote as long as you can!

Hopeworks: I think one of the reasons we start getting hungry is because some of the swelling is going down and the restriction in the area that we initially felt is getting less and less as we heal. I asked about s/f gum and my doc's asst. said that it is fine to use to help with the need for chewing. And with that awful taste we get. My doc gave me a really small baby spoon. He said that not only do I need to use it to slow me down, but that I also need to chew at least 12 times before I swallow the food. Once we get back into meats & veggies, I need to chew 32 times per baby spoon bite. He said that it is very dangerous to eat too fast. One reason besides the obvious (PB) is that food can stack up in the esophogus and even if we don't realize that it is doing that, it can damage the esophogus to such an extent that it could cause slippage or erosion of the band. Then they'd have to open us up again. This is just what my doc's office preaches. You probably should check again with yours since they're all operating from (no pun intended) different points of view.

Elaine: Congratulations! You're way ahead of the game having walked off the gas and most of the shoulder pain already!! I had read so many horror stories about the liquid pain meds, I was afraid to try them. Sounds like you're confirming how awful they are. I had a hernia repair too - but I was well aware of it before hand - for years. You may be very pleasantly surprised at how well you're going to feel now that it's fixed! Great to hear of your very upbeat experiences!!

Gonnabethin: Man! You're still battling the hiccups! That sucks. I'm still pretty hungry too, but I've been able to have eggs for several days. If I can get through the weekend, I get some addt'l protein on Mon. I was thinking you said you get to have something more substantial soon. On the upside, you're going to be losing more good lbs! (If you can live to tell about it!)

MCW: Great job of telling us about your lst fill! It takes some of the mystery out of it. Plus I think most of us who've had the band for at least a week are getting pretty hungry, so hopefully it will all be worth it for the 1st fill. Glad you're doing well!

Sherry, our dieticians must be in sync. I can add baked fish and tuna on Monday, plus (and I'm so excited about this) toast or crackers! The thing that seems to help the most with my hunger is scrambled eggs with non-fat chedder cheese on them. I've never eaten lo-fat, or non-fat cheese before in my life. I mean, what's the point? But the cheese just seems to give the eggs more body and it's very satisfying. Also, cottage cheese with canned pears (packed in lite juice) is almost like having a dessert at this point. Last night I had a baked potato, no salty skin - like I love - but the lo-fat sour cream I put on it was surprisingly good. And, I've found the best popsicles. They're Tuttie-Fruttie Pops under the Kroger brand. Only 15 cal ea. and they take a long time to eat, and there are 2 flavors in one pop. Much better than regular popsicles! Also working harder at drinking water 1 to 2 hours after eating. I think that has really been helping. Glad things are going well for you and you're feelin' fine! What's your favorite food right now?

gonnabethin: YEA for you!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is absolutely fabulous!! It's all downhill from here. I am very proud of you. I hope we can both hang in there and reach our goals in record time. Having you rockin' along with me is going to be a huge help!