BJean

What ever happened to Phyllis Schaffly? She'd be just the ticket for you gadgetlady. She's not brown-skinned, but she's definitely anti-abortion.

Not to belabor a point but the fact that things were so utterly horrible for gay men back then and that they were, in a way, forced to lead double lives is the point of the movie. In other words, they did cheat on their wives, but they paid the price for it either emotionally or physically. It isn't a bad thing that you didn't like the movie - that you weren't able to relate to the characters or understand the depth of the emotions that they experienced, but it was a good movie to show how far we've come and why. I shouldn't have generalized so much and said that someone is cold-hearted if they couldn't relate to the movie, but perhaps the reason you couldn't is because you never lived in a time when gays were treated as outcasts. In my high school, there was one gay boy (that we all knew was gay). His name was Johnnie White. Someone started a thing where Thursday was Johnnie White Day. If you thought being a "homo" was horrible and Johnnie White was a creep, you wore yellow and green on Thursday. Can you just imagine what it was like to be him?

Bitter: I lost my Mom and my sister (who was like my twin) to breast cancer. I didn't have full time care of either of them, but I can tell you for sure that it takes a mighty special person to take on what you have done for your Mom. You totally lose your own life and if that's not enough, you are completely exhausted most of the time. I did things for my Mother that I thought I could never do. My brother and 2 sisters ran the other way. My Mom was so crazy about my brother but he was completely worthless when she became ill. I know it was hard on him, but his lack of attention to her was very hurtful to her. I don't regret one personal care thing that I did for her. I am proud of every particularly difficult job I managed to do for her. It was hard but it made me feel like I was a better person than before I did them. I lived in Orlando at the time and every month I flew home to help her and give my Dad a break. It took us 2 years to pay off all the airline tickets. (My family sacrificed some too.) But none of this even counts a tiny bit toward what you've been doing for your Mother. There is a very special star in heaven for you, I have no doubt. And although your brother would never agree with me I'm sure, you deserve every penny your Mother and your family could give you. And you would still not begin to be paid for what you've done for your Mom. I admire you very much for stepping up to the plate and taking charge of an extremely difficult situation!

Bitter: I went to school at Northeastern my Freshman year!! I dearly loved Tahlequah! I have wanted to go back to visit for years. We've lived all over the country and Montreal, but I still miss Oklahoma and Tahlequah is especially dear to my heart. When they built the Indian center there about the Trail of Tears, my Mother loved it so much she considered it nearly sacred ground. When I was young we used to go camping and fishing on our vacations at Ft. Gibson. I'm sure that it has changed a lot, but for us kids back then, it was a magical place. That's when I learned about fresh caught fish fried over an open fire and s'mores. And then there are the tube rides down the Illinois River. My best friend in high school and my first roommate at Northeastern took me with her to her family's cabin in the summer and the innertube rides were the highlight of those weekends. Thanks for just mentioning Tahlequah. It gave me pause to take a stroll down memory lane - sigh! Life seemed so simple back then. When I transferred to O.S.U. things started getting way more complicated: I changed majors from elementary education to Interior Design and married an architecture student and he wound up getting drafted (Viet Nam), I had a baby and things have been way more difficult since those beautiful days at Northeastern. But I am lucky to have those wonderful memories and I appreciate having communicated with someone today from Tahlequah!

Carlene: Frankly I hope my grandson's penchant for women's shoes, clothes and other attire is just a phase. His life would be a whole lot easier if he didn't lead an "alternative lifestyle." But if he is gay, my love for him would not be compromised in any way. If he's a cross dresser, the same is true. And I do know the difference. As for his brother... he definitely does not insist on wearing girls' clothes. That doesn't necessarily mean anything, at this point, but they do have completely different behavior in that regard. And although they are identical twins, there are many things that happen in the womb that can be a factor in their development that aren't genetic. I do appreciate your input. Thanks. I would like to add that Wyoming residents probably aren't any more homophobic than a heckofa lot of Texans. As for the movie and the fact that they were married, as KariK pointed out, the story was about gays in the 50's (I believe) not present day. Back then very few gay men came out of the closet. That term didn't even exist back then. They knew they would be ostracized (and sometimes even worse) if they were found out. They mostly married and had children and were miserable and had a high incidence of alcohol abuse and suicides. Thank goodness times have changed. We're not all as Enlightened as we need to be, but at least things are getting better for gays in our society. Thank goodness we can look at a movie like "Brokeback Mountain" and have an inkling of what it must have been like to be a gay man back then. If it doesn't make you compassionate toward gays after seeing that movie, you must be very rigid in your beliefs or have a cold heart.

You all are saying that American isn't ready for a female or black president. I think you may be protesting too much. Maybe YOU"RE not really ready for that scenario. We have a couple of years to continue to mature, and to watch all the potential candidates' posturing. We can listen to their speeches and we can make a fair judgement call about who from the Democratic party can best lead this country. If we are starting already to say aloud, over and over, that Americans aren't ready for a black or a woman in the presidency, it will become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Perhaps if we talk and act like a woman or a black person can and should be our president, maybe that could be the self-fulfilling prophecy instead.

My son and his DW have identical (yes, IDENTICAL) twin boys. Her high risk pregnancy doctor suggested she "start over" when they discovered she had TTTS syndrom. She, my son and I went to Milwaukee where she had surgery when she was in her 20th month of pregnancy in order to save them. They are now 4 year old happy, healthy rambunctious boys. They live in California. They came home to Texas for a visit not long ago and all my DH's family came over for a cook out. DH has 5 brothers and sisters. All very Texan, like their parents. Well, you could have heard a pin drop at 100 paces when one of the twins came downstairs all dressed in our granddaughter's Cinderella gown, tiara and plastic high heels. He proceeded to wear this outfit all day. The wide-eyed silence was extremely awkward. My son and his DH decided long ago (this all started when the boys were about 2) that if he is gay, there's nothing they can do to change that. If he is only play acting, why should they tell them that dressing as a girl is BAD and WRONG? I feel bad for my grandson because I see the looks he gets from his very own grandparents and aunts and uncles. All of us wonder if he is gay and we wonder if his identical twin brother is too. We've heard that in Europe this role playing and gender bending with children is very common there and no one thinks a thing about it. How refreshing that must be! Another interesting twist to this little tale is that DH's mother had a cousin who was single and spent a lot of time with the family over holidays, etc. Get this... he was in interior design, never married and ate, walked and talked in a very feminine way. No one ever, I mean EVER, broached the subject of the possiblity that he might be homosexual. When I asked my husband if his uncle was gay, he looked at me like I'd asked if the Pope was Catholic. I actually took for granted that he was gay. It took me a long time to figure out that many Texans just don't accept or discuss homosexuality. We also don't discuss that blight on American cinema "Brokeback Mountain." If there is anyone here who is gay and can give me advice on dealing with DH's family regarding my beautiful grandson, I'd love to hear it.

We ALWAYS have to write a check. We don't see why the government should hold our money all those months. I'm really surprised that this day and age people don't realize what they pay in taxes. Even when I was a po' divorced single parent I knew exactly what came in and what went out. The came in never was as much as the went out. I had to marry me a keeper. So folks, let's vote for Hillary. She just might understand a few things about that!

I don't have a hearing problem but sometimes when I have poor reception during a cell call, I will talk louder thinking it will make them talk louder. That's oblivious behavior mind you. Now that they put up more cell towers in our 'hood it isn't a problem. My DH practically yells into his phone because he always has music blasting in his car. Are we getting old... or what?

How can people fill out their tax forms and not be aware of what they pay in taxes?

Yup and which thread was it where someone pointed out what a great education he has? I keep reading posts by Republicans who are upset by all the Bush bashing. It is so darned easy to bash the man. Who can resist? Maybe more Republicans don't enter into the political fray here because other than saying they support Republican political policies, how can they possibly cite good things that the man himself has accomplished? I get surprised everytime I read a pro-Bush post. I can understand people who have right-wing leanings, but I can't understand how people can be aware of Dubya's failings and still say what a great man he is. Oh well, vive la differance! It's what makes the world go 'round, right?

I'm sadder than either of you. My mother is dead and my sister stole everything of value.

If anybody was paid to run (not necessarily in dollars) it was Strayhorn. Since we all knew what was up, why else do you think she did it? I say incentives - use your imagination.

Hmmm. Anybody hear crickets??

Are ya'll too young to remember Golda Meir? She was fabulous and brilliant and had the respect of most of the world. And Indira Ghandi? And there are others who have been wonderful, wonderful leaders. It can be done and it should be done. I too have my doubts that it will be done though. IF Americans, men and women alike, are sucked in by the negative spin again, we will all be losers again. That's why talking about it now and working toward that goal now is very important. If enough momentum is gathered, many of the things you all seem to think are insurmountable can be handled and overcome.

As for the wall or walls, north and south, is Dubya nuts or what?

Well I'm just "liberal" enough to think that some diplomacy just might work. I know the "neo-cons" as Bitter calls them don't believe in diplomacy. They believe that since we're the biggest kid on the block (or were) that we should whack everybody with our big stick and make them do what they're told. Nevermind that we've lost thousands of lives trying to whack the hell out of those Iraqi scoundrels. And the darned people just won't get aligned. Go figure. If the "neo-cons" haven't figured out yet that China is carrying a pretty darned big stick too, and Iraq has caused our stick to be pretty damaged, I'm sure glad we have some Democrats at the helm to hopefully take a more sane approach to worldly matters. I'm not one of those "neo-cons" who seem to believe it's acceptable to send our National Guard to fight a war. And speaking to that subject, I am terribly sorry to hear that GeezerSue's DH has had the heartbreaking experience of having to console his friend upon the loss of his son. Gawd this is a horrible mess.

Bitter: I just wanted you to know that I really enjoyed your post. Some of your other posts have also mentioned that you live in Okla. I'm from Okla. I live in Texas now. There's so much pride in Texas, not so much in Oklahoma. And for the life of me I can't understand why people prefer to live in Texas. Oklahoma was a great place to grow up. And I love the attitude of the general population. I miss it to this day and I've lived in many places and I've been gone from Oklahoma for 30 years. Mind telling me which little town you live in? I'm originally from Sand Springs. Not exactly a garden spot, but its' proximity to Tulsa was a big plus when I was in school.

Barbara they sure did practically lynch Hillary over her wanting to study and then make some health care reforms. Turned out that she was so very, very right!! The Republicans put their usual spin on it and made everyone think she wanted socialized medicine. She didn't even get a chance to do the studies and present a case. She's a woman that is possibly ahead of her time. I certainly hope that isn't the case! If she runs (did I say IF?) I hope she will be elected. Did you see the percentage she won re-election to the Senate last night? When I went to bed, she was whuppin' her opponent badly. That happened because she has served New York well. New Yorkers sure aren't afraid to back a woman if she's a smart and effective Senator. Obama would make an outstanding Vice President on a Hillary Clinton ticket!!

I married one who is just younger enough than me to not kick the bucket before me. (You know how women supposedly outlive their men.) Green if mine was 9 or 10 years younger than me right about now he'd be looking for replacement material. Of course when I become svelt again, Katie bar the door! (An old Okie term for you Soviet Canuckistanians.)

Oh cool. So you can learn something while you're learning something.

Telly: I am so happy to hear women be vocal about supporting Hillary. So many women do not support other women. It may have to do with hormones, but it really chaps me. Especially when it's a woman who is so concerned about the welfare of her fellow Americans and is willing to put her a$$ on the line to do something about it. I would definitely be willing to volunteer for her campaign. And I haven't done that in years. I do disagree a little on the capabilities of Bill though. I believe it is an honerable man, and a brilliant man, except for when he turns his thinking over to his "little" head. After all, he IS a man.

Carlene: That's funny. Except when you're a single parent and the ex is out having too much fun to be bothered to pick him up. Why are ex's always creeps?

Many people think that Hillary is a shoo-in to be the Democratic candidate for president in 2008. I don't know if any of you have noticed Obama's posturing lately, but if you'd like to see Hillary in the presidency, we better get our acts together because he's gonna garner enough support to stage an upset at the convention. It has been done many times in the past, in fact my first memory of it was when John Kennedy outmaneuvered Lyndon Johnson who was thought to have the nomination in the bag.

DrewsLou- Fabulous news! Please tell her that we love the fact that she was re-elected and we want more competent women in government. I would like to believe that if we had at least 50% of the seats in the House and Senate held by women this country might not be in the terrible mess it's in right now.