BJean

Betsyjane: Does anybody want the draft? Do you think that reinstating the draft would work today, like it did in Viet Nam days? Is this a factor in your earlier mention of the decline of the United States? How much can the American people put up with? Or probably a better question is, how much WILL the American people put up with? But is this all unreal conjecture, rather than being based in reality?

That's all very interesting, Jack. Thanks for the info.

Sorry dude, English IS the language of the U.S., official or not. Read the street signs, read government documents, attend public schools. For people who do not accept English as the language of the land, make it official! I've lived in a country (legally) where a person who did not speak the local language was discriminated against in every venue. It's a disservice to all concerned for us to not agree on a common language that is used in the schools and on official documents, signs, etc. Breaking the law is breaking the law. Period. There are definitely different penalties, of course, but it is wrong to have laws on the books that are not enforced. Change the law! I'm not arguing that we should deport everybody. I'm not arguing that the country doesn't need Mexican labor. I'm not arguing that babies born in the U.S. shouldn't receive medical and other government support. I'm just saying that you can't have it both ways. I know that's what you think you're saying too, but the main thing is breaking the law is breaking the law. We are a nation that functions as well as it does because we have laws that the majority of the population respect. Without laws, there would be chaos. Wrecks. Disrespect. The strong taking advantage of the weak. We need laws. We don't need laws that we don't enforce. The fairness and win-win that you are talking about needs to begin with a change in the law.

Yeah. What Green said. And YOU DON'T HAVE TO YELL!

The efforts of diplomacy may not produce the peace, but what this administration has done has not produced the peace and it has cost many, many lives. Surely you don't believe that what we're doing in Iraq is an acceptable means of "corporate profiteering"?

We need a plan that will work to the benefit of all Americans. Like it or not, we must think of the greater good. It won't make everyone happy, but it should be fair and equitable. The fact that illegal aliens pay into the social security system and aren't able to use it, isn't really the point. The fact that many babies of illegal aliens are born in this country and automatically receive government benefits that the citizens of the United States pay for, isn't really the point either. The bigger picture is the point. Massive numbers of illegal aliens entering the U.S. on a daily basis having a dramatic impact on our society is the point. Some plan that is fair to honest Americans living in this country and a plan that is as fair as can be for the millions of illegal aliens living in this country is what is needed. There has to be a compromise if we are going to be fair and if we are going to be compassionate to everyone, not just the illegal aliens. It's unfortunate that the term "illegal aliens" has such a harsh sound to it. But it's an unfortunate fact of life and sugar-coating it won't bring about a fair and equitable settlement of this issue. And you are right, commiting a crime by entering this country illegally is not the same as committing a murder or rape. But breaking the law is breaking the law. We can't have people going about breaking whatever laws they disagree with. Our safety and way of life is at issue. Get a plan. Change the laws. Help people adapt to our language and way of life. Help people integrate into our society in such a way that it benefits the greater good. That would be compassionate. That would be fair.

Mouse: Who says there is a worldwide effort to attack the U.S. and our freedoms? We are extremely unpopular since G.W. has taken office. We are not respected by a lot of countries, worldwide, and rightfully so. But what makes you think that there is a worldwide effort to "attack" us and our "freedoms"? Is that what you mean by your reference to "groundhog day"? I understand the argument that we are there now, right or wong, and that we shouldn't pull out until we win. Hello...there are some valid reasons why it is in the best interests of the U.S. to stay there and protect the area from Iranian or Syrian dominance of oil in the region. Especially since this country depends on oil to continue to live our lives the way we have become accumstomed - like there is no end to the supply of oil - like there are no good alternatives to being so reliant on oil. But why not be honest about our motives? Very few people internationally or in the U.S. believe that we are there to set up a Democratic government. Most people know that the idea is folly. Hundreds and hundreds of years of history bear this out. If it is Americans' safety, our national interests and our strength in the international area that you want, why are you for continuing the war in Iraq which has done nothing to improve those things and in fact, has eroded all of those things? How has our presence in Iraq protected us from living in an Islamic controlled society? How has it protected our freedoms and our liberty? By sacrificing our military? Are things better today than they were last year in Iraq? No, they are not. The goals that you have stated are all things that Americans want and need. But the problem with this war is that it is not having the desired or needed effect to protect those wants and needs. Just because people who are pro-war in Iraq trot out those ideals in the context of our military efforts in Iraq, it does not make it reality. Those are emotionally-charged buzz words and used simply for the reason that they work with a lot of caring, patriotic and blindly loyal U.S. citizens. It isn't necessarily wrong for private contractors to be enlisted to aid in the rebuilding of Iraq. It is wrong for our government to tell it's citizens that our military is being used to rebuild Iraq and that it is for that reason that we need more military there, when in fact, private contractors are doing a lot of that work. What's the matter with truth in government? Why do you think that things have been so screwed up and people are so up in arms about what this administration is doing versus what they're telling us they're doing? Are the majority of Americans and Congress all completely WRONG? Please don't assume that because I don't read military blogs and cry my heart out for our servicemen afterwards that I don't care about what they say and what they feel. I care very deeply. I care enough to want to save them. Of course you and I disagree. You can't stop telling me reasons why you feel the way you do and I can't stop voicing my opinions about my own feelings. It's okay. The entire country is completely torn up about it. In fact, much of the world is torn up as well, and for darned good reason!

Our military have been used as pawns in the game that Bush and others are playing in the Middle East. I feel sorry for the people who HAVE watched and read and believed, hook, line and sinker, the propaganda that the Bush people have spread about their motives and agenda in Iraq. If you were a military person serving in Iraq, or you were the family members of a military person serving in Iraq, would you rather believe that the president has pure and righteous motives or would you rather believe that the president has motives that are primarily for the benefit of big business and his own private cash reserves? If you were a strong "born again" Christian and your pastor or Pat Robertson told you that our presence in Iraq is for good and righteous reasons, would you believe them, or your lying eyes? Stating over and over here that the media has its' own agenda and is therefore not reporting the real news and not showing real pictures from Iraq is naive. Sure the media has its' own agenda, but they are not making stuff up. Even if you are convinced that they are biased or that they slant their reporting, the truth about Iraq is apparent from practically all sources available now. Except the sources that have their own reasons for wanting the war in Iraq to continue. Some people who support the president in this, and/or have their own reasons for wanting us to continue in Iraq, can no longer avoid the truth of this situation. Saying that the media has it all wrong just won't cut it anymore. Insinuating that the majority of the people posting on this thread are too ignorant to understand anything about this war is naive and insulting.

One more thing Maggie... your comment "had you lived under Sadaam in Iraq, you'd be dead right now", may be sadly true. By the same token, if we were members of the Armed Forces of the United States of America in Iraq, that we could be dead, maimed or mentally destroyed is also sadly true.

Maggie: You're one of those I might have referred to above. I would REALLY appreciate it if you would take the time to share with us why you think we went to Iraq and why we should stay. I think mousecrazy has it all wrong when she says you're not going to get any support here. Many times people do take exception to what others post, and there may be a person (or two) in particular whose posts come across as attacking, but generally everyone here is just wanting to state their opinions and read other people's opinions. Isn't that what this is all about? Lucky for us, we have contributors from both sides and we can all learn a little from each other...or a lot, as the case may be. Geezer, for instance, could probably fill a book relating her experiences. It's a book I'd like to read. (And pictures I'd like to see!) You have a different perspective, and I'm totally interested in what you have to say. Who lives here that doesn't dearly love this country? I honestly want to be convinced that we went to Iraq to free the people. I keep hoping that I will come to this thread and read something intelligent that will point out good reasons for our being involved in the continued death and destruction in Iraq. Our original stated intent was to destroy Sadaam and his cohorts in crime. They supposedly had WMD, and were harboring and supporting terrorists who were responsible for 9/11. We went there in spite of the fact that our intelligence community was against it, public opinion was against it and very, very few of our allies believed that we were right to intervene in the way we did. Just because our mission has changed since the inception, doesn't necessarily mean that what we have accomplished there is wrong or bad. The fact that some of the people there have been helped by the war doesn't necessarily mean that it is good overall either. I would love for you to clarify for us here why going to Iraq and staying in Iraq now, beefing up our troops now, is right and good.

Yeah Jodie, take it with a grain of salt. When I've posted, many times I've put something in such a way that I got back feedback from an interpretation of what I said, that I didn't mean. That's the problem with the written word, especially when done by amateurs, difficulty in making our words say EXACTLY what we mean. I certainly am not discrediting your coursework or what you believe or how you express it! I was only wanting you to think a little about who you might be exhanging ideas with. Don't underestimate anyone here when they either agree or disagree with you. I've been surprised many times to learn that they have complete credibility due to their education and/or experiences. You were cool to pick up on that and I am very impressed with your intellect, especially since you are just beginning your educational journey.

P.S. Karey the snowshoeing sounds fantastic! I remember the first time I went cross country skiing. What a novice! I wore my downhill ski clothes and before long I got really hot. I stopped for a minute and unzipped my jacket at the top... steam poured out! It was uncomfortable and embarrassing, but hilarious. Never made that mistake again. I would imagine that snow shoeing is possibly even more demanding than cross country skiing? I have a friend that lives in Vail and is in a group of snowshoeing women. She's 60 years old and thin as a rail. She attributes her svelt body to snowshoeing in the winter and tennis in the summer. Beeotch.

I've been trying to do the Water loading thing because it worked for me when I wasn't dieting, to help with not overeating. However with the band, if I drink very much water as close as 15 min. before my meal, I will get the "stuck pain" with the first bite of food. I have to drink water further out from the meal than that. I try to remember to drink at least a 16 oz. bottle of water a couple of hours after the meal, but I find that very hard to remember to do. Before the band, I tried to drink a bottle of water right before a meal and that really helped. Now that I can't do it that way, it's much harder to find a way to incorporate the water with it not affecting the tightness and PB's when I eat. If you have a secret that I don't know about for handling this, please clue me in. Thanx.

Oh man! Your mom did the salmon patty bit too? I suffered from the same phobia for a long time. I still think that it is awfully strong when I get it in restaurants, most of the time. The cedar plank salmon that I mentioned is a far cry from our mom's salmon patties!! Wanna hear something I've never confessed before, to anyone? When she made her salmon patties, from canned salmon (yuk), she removed the bones and gave them to me to eat!!! No, I can't believe it either. Wonder what nutrients and calories canned, soft, salmon bones have? Probably some kind of mercury poison or something. LOL

We're all glad you are involved in such an exciting major as political science. You sure have lots of material to study and debate with the events of today. I doubt if anyone here is "without any political background whatsoever." Don't get us started having to back up our reason for posting here by spouting off our educational credentials. You might be humbled a bit.

Hear, hear, Geezersue! You and Betsyjane have hit the nails on the proverbial heads. Carlene I believe was trying to use some information she had to back up her statement. Jodie seemed to think she was writing a dissertation for her Ph.d. Jodie's learning, she's learning. And good for her. I'm just hoping that she really is as open minded as she says. Because for her to quote a source to indicate that people don't feel so bad about this president because it shows 68% against the war and only 63% against Bush, is frankly mind boggling.

Karey: I agree that you can't tell you've had a work out until later. It does feel good though. I missed my class tonight for a very good reason, but I hated to miss it. You are doing well with your weight loss! Way to go. Tami: You're like my DH in that you can stick to a routine for breakfast that is working. I get bored if I have the same thing 2 days in a row. Reading what you had for dinner makes me feel confident that my band isn't adjusted properly. I am able to eat too much without feeling the least bit uncomfortable. Of course just because you kept your intake at Outback very low, it may have been your willpower, not the band. But whatever the reason, you're sure an inspriration. I'm enjoying reading all the data you bring to us. Keep up the great work! (That talapia dish at Outback is really good.) BTW, if you have a Johnnie Carrino's near you, they have a really great new dish. It's cedar plank salmon with an excellent angel hair pasta and sauteed spinach side. I highly recommend it.

Betsyjane: Wouldn't it just be the absolute pits if our involvement in Iraq and our insistence on a certain path for Iraq contributed to an all out Middle East war? The pits is hardly a strong enough word, but just thinking about it makes me want to use language that isn't fit for mixed company. (You never know when Jack or T_O_M or Tommy might show up!)

Dubya knows what's going on to the extent that they tell him what's going on. And he's informed to the extent that it affects him and his need to know. Otherwise, clueless. Or maybe you're right - he's relatively smart. If that is true then he is one heartless, selfish S.O.B. I prefer to think some of his crayons are missing from the box.

Betsyjane: I completely agree with your assessment of Bush's speech last night. It seemed VERY well rehearsed, and I was pleased about his and everyone's efforts. I too wound up falling asleep in the middle, but rallied after a few minutes. It was a bit repetitive in parts, but that's an acceptable way to drive your position home. I honestly do not believe that most Americans who are against this war and who distrust Bush are feeling that way due to their political leanings. By the same token, I do not believe that the war has been politicized except by the people who are entrenched in the Democratic and Republican political machinery. Most of us Americans are not that involved in politics except when we vote or get involved in a campaign. We just know what we feel is right and what we feel is wrong for us and for the United States and for our military. Most of us really do care about humanity throughout the world and are terribly saddened by an awareness of inhumanity in other countries, in any form. Even if we didn't like or hated Saddam's inhumanity, we don't appreciate the hell that the Iraqi people are having to endure or die from in a war that our country has engaged in, on their soil. Furthermore, we are shocked and outraged by the way this war has been conducted and the toil it has taken on our own military and on our own country. I will be interested to hear just exactly how the President plans to find the personnel to beef up our ranks in Iraq.

TamifromAL: That's fabulous!!! I would dearly love to get to the point that I could swap clothes with my daughter! She weighs around 125. Both of my kids are slender. Both wish I were too. I hope I'm going to be able to make them proud. So far on this LB journey, I think they are. My DD doesn't eat meat and I worry about her getting enough protein. My DS doesn't eat a whole lot of anything at one sitting, so small quantities of food are his forte. I never made them eat what my DH and I were having so they have always kind of done their own thing. Even when they were very young. I came from a family that are all huge and unhealthy and whose lives have always been centered around bad foods, so I knew I was no role model for my own kids and didn't know how to cook the healthy way. So they are doing fine in spite of my failures, God Bless them! My DH seems to be holding back and continues to not want to eat what I'm eating. I think he's been through so many diets with me in the past that he doesn't really believe this is "it" for me. I hope that he will join me soon because I know it will be easier for me and it will sure be healthier for him! I have been to 2 water aerobics classes this week and have another one on Friday. It's amazing how good it is making me feel about myself. I am sure that in a couple of weeks of this, it will start producing results. If it weren't for this St. Patty's Day challenge, I don't think I would have talked myself into doing this class. Woo, hoo for this forum!!

Bitter: Thanks for your reply. I am glad you started this thread. It is very cool to read such upbeat stories from teachers!

Hey, thanks for your concern. I feel much better today. I still don't know for sure what causes the bulging port and pain, but I'd like to figure it out so that I can avoid whatever I'm doing to cause it!! Tami, didn't you tell me that your DH and you are both dieting? I have come to realize that when my DH is out of town, I do much better. I've got to work on that. Afterall, it isn't HIS fault that I choose to fall off the wagon!

Aw, I can't just pick one. There are too many hilarious and appropriate ones in there. OMG, Jail to the Chief...Bush, like a rock, only dumber, George Bush, creating the terrorists our kids will have to fight, No, seriously, why did we invade Iraq?, We need a President fluent in at least one language, If you want a nation ruled by religion, move to Iran, and last but certainly not least...That's ok I wasn't using my civil liberties anyway. The others are good too though, including Impeachment, it's not just for blow jobs anymore. Aw I just gotta mention, Cheney/Satan '08. By the way, where ARE we going, and why are we in this handbasket?

Holy freeholies, TommyO: I haven't laughed so hard in such a long time! The bumper stickers are GREAT! If you aren't laughing, you're crying!